World Championship Wrestling 2002: Rebuilding the Empire

[Hashasheen]

Jindrak and O'Haire are really it for the remaining Natural Born Thrillers. Mike Sanders is still on the roster as a pure jobber. Stasiak, Palumbo, Reno, and Johnny the Bull all were put in development. Stasiak and Palumbo didn't improve over time and were released. Reno is much the same and won't last much longer. The Bull did improve some but not enough to really be useful, which is why I never called him up. Now that I'm away from the game, I may reconsider, but he's still not a fantastic talent.

Shame. Reno would have excelled in Hardcore matches I would think, and while Stasiak was a waste of a roster spot, both Palumbo and Johnny were very good for WCW's depleted in '00 and '01, even being rookies. As for Sanders, he should have good enough skills for managering.

[Bigpapa42]

I struggle to let guys go that really I have no use for such as Reno, Johnny the Bull, Big Vito, and some others. Sending them to developement is satisfying enough to make me feel like I am doing something good for them though.

 

I'm much the same. Especially since I really didn't want to simply get rid of every marginal talent - that feels like you're ripping the promotion apart if you do it in a hurry. Don over a period of time, its just turnover.

 

Once they spend some time in development and it does nothing, its time to cut your losses, I think.

 

Shame. Reno would have excelled in Hardcore matches I would think, and while Stasiak was a waste of a roster spot, both Palumbo and Johnny were very good for WCW's depleted in '00 and '01, even being rookies. As for Sanders, he should have good enough skills for managering.

 

Agree on Reno, but by this point, WCW doesn't do a lot of hardcore style matches. Even on the ECW brands, its more a rarity than the standard. He might find a place in ECW in time, but he's never likely to be more than a fringe guy.

 

My original plan was to make the Natural Born Thrillers into a major part of WCW going forward. With talent being key, most of them just didn't fit in that regard. It was either edit to make them unrealistically good or send them to development and hope.

 

As for Sanders, I actually did consider that possibility. But he's not a great talker in the data. Not bad, but not really good to the point that making him a manager seemed like a better use than having him job here and there. Outside of eye candy female managers, I look for managers to have pretty solid mic skills. If they are on the same level as the talent they are managing, there really isn't a point to having them as a mouthpiece.

[Bigpapa42]

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k235/Bigpapa42_2006/WCW/Media/EWR_net3.jpg

Wrestling Heat Editorial

The Infinite Loop of WCW

By A.N. Marshall

 

History... It repeats.

 

In 1994, World Championship Wrestling was chasing the World Wrestling Federation for number one spot in America. Some distance behind the McMahon empire, a brash young Eric Bischoff proclaimed Hulk Hogan would be the savior. The biggest star and biggest draw of his generation was signed to a massive contract. Bischoff proved prophetic as Hogan had a key role in helping WCW chase down and surpass the WWF.

 

In 2003, World Championship Wrestling was once again chasing World Wrestling Entertainment for the number one spot in America. Some distance behind the McMahon empire, a older and wiser Eric Bischoff saw the value in Steve Austin. The biggest star and biggest draw of his generation was signed to a contract. The question remains how much Austin can help WCW in their chase. It may occasionally seem like the professional wrestling industry is stuck on an infinite loop. Long-time fans may be getting a sense of déjà vu. However, when one goes beyond the surface similarities of the two situations, the comparisons between them begin to feel a bit superficial.

 

When Hogan was signed by WCW, he really was treated as the savior. The signing was hyped endlessly by the commentators and it was proclaimed as the greatest moment in WCW history. In some ways, it probably was. He was given a ticker-tape parade and he won the WCW World Heavyweight championship in his very first match. The debut of Steve Austin in WCW - well, truly a re-debut - was not even on WCW Nitro. It happened on ECW Warfare. He was an unnamed "special guest" of Mick Foley. There no hype. The appearance was not addressed at all on Nitro for several weeks. It was quite possibly the most low-key way that WCW could possible debut a man who, given his drawing power throughout the WWE's "Attitude Era", has to be considered a major signing. Yet in those first weeks on ECW, it was not even clear if he had even actually signed for WCW.

 

Austin had indeed signed an exclusive contract with WCW. He had walked out on the WWE in September 2002 and saw his contract expire just a short time later. The WWE tried to hide the contract issue, and did so quite successful. McMahon believed his star would come back in time, with more accommodating contract demands than he had previously asked for. Austin was at home in Texas, enjoying time away from the business, when Eric Bischoff happened to call him in early December to determine if he was actually a free agent or not. And if he was a free agent, whether he would consider a return to WCW, the promotion that fired him back in 1995. According to both men, Austin confirmed he was a free agent but he had no interest in a return to WCW. A few weeks later, he reconsidered and contacted Bischoff. The negotiations were quick and Austin was given a fairly lucrative contract.

 

The understated opening to Austin's second WCW run likely suited "The Texas Rattlesnake" just fine. Although younger than Hogan was when he joined WCW - Hogan was 41 years old compared to Austin just turning 39 - the reality was that the man known in the WWE as "Stone Cold" was not in great physical condition. A long list of injuries, including bad knees, limited his ring work to an increasing degree. Apparently he made this clear to WCW and Eric Bischoff, who still saw value in what Austin could bring to the promotion. He would wrestle, but not full-time. It was seems that WCW management did not view Austin as a savior or the man to carry them past the WWE, but rather as a unique attraction.

 

Many fans thought that Vince McMahon would have been "losing his mind" when Austin showed up on ECW Warfare. Apparently it was quite the opposite. McMahon had reportedly begun to regard Steve Austin as a constant headache who was no longer worth the effort or the money. It was a rather cold attitude toward the wrestler who helped the WWE surpass WCW in the late 1990s. As one WWE insider stated, "When you can make him money, Vince has all the patience in the world. He loves you. When you're not making him money, he's a lot less forgiving." One report has McMahon actually delighted when told of Austin signing WCW, proclaiming that Bischoff had paid a fortune for a guy who “can barely move anymore”.

 

Eric Bischoff and Paul Heyman did take some heat over the Austin signing. More specifically the low-key manner in which he was debuted. A number of industry observers called the debut of Austin a “wasted opportunity” and “lost money”. While that is true to an extent, it was also obviously intentional. It would be asinine to assume that Heyman and Bischoff did not know what they were doing with Austin. “Booking 101: The Basics” would teach you that one of the easiest ways to make something seem important is to treat it as important. Whether its a wrestler, a title belt, a match, a feud, a debut, pretty much anything. Treat it as a important, talk about it, and hype it. That is not to say that it will always work or that is cannot backfire, but its booking basics and it often works. So if something which arguably deserves significant hype is instead treated in the opposite manner, what is the effect? It obviously depends on the situation, but in this case, it created confusion and uncertainty from the fans. Once again, its difficult to conceive that Heyman, Bischoff, and even Austin didn't expect and desire that.

 

Another pertinent question is whether the loss of Austin hurt World Wrestling Entertainment. It did, though not as much as one might believe. The loss of a talent with the name value of Steve Austin is always going to be a blow to a promotion. But given how he was limited in the ring, he was only adding so much to the WWE by the latter part of 2002. Likely, he would be adding even less by 2003. Given the rumored contract demands he made during extension negotiations in the summer of 2002, it was likely a good business decision by Vince McMahon. Conversely, Austin did have more value to WCW because he could be used in a different manner than he could in the WWE. Shawn Michaels, considering the quality of his ring work through 2002, was a much bigger loss to the WWE.

 

Many fans noted that WCW was able to refer to Austin as "The Texas Rattlesnake" but not "Stone Cold". His well-known finisher was not called "The Stone Cold Stunner" by WCW, but the "Snake Bite". The reason that one nickname could be used was due to a trademark renewal faux pas by the WWE office. When Austin was walking out on the WWE in the fall of 2002, the trademarks came up for renewal. *For whatever reason, only some of them were renewed. Austin himself discovered this when he contacted the WWE office to determine what he could use without WWE permission. He was told that "Stone Cold" could only be used with WWE permission, but the "Rattlesnake" nickname could be used without. When he asked why, the WWE staffer made the mistake of answering honestly. That mistake reportedly angered Vince McMahon more than the actual loss of Steve Austin.

 

While the comparisons between the signings of Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin are probably inevitable, the situations are truthfully vastly different. The role each men would play with World Championship Wrestling would also be vastly different, though both would succeed in their own way. In some ways, it shows the evolution of WCW and Eric Bischoff that Austin wasn't simply pushed as a major attraction from the moment he joined the promotion.

[Hashasheen]

My original plan was to make the Natural Born Thrillers into a major part of WCW going forward. With talent being key, most of them just didn't fit in that regard. It was either edit to make them unrealistically good or send them to development and hope.

 

As for Sanders, I actually did consider that possibility. But he's not a great talker in the data. Not bad, but not really good to the point that making him a manager seemed like a better use than having him job here and there. Outside of eye candy female managers, I look for managers to have pretty solid mic skills. If they are on the same level as the talent they are managing, there really isn't a point to having them as a mouthpiece.

 

I guess this is a case of the game being too unrealistic. Sanders was originally going to be the manager for Lesnar in WWE before Heyman chose the spot for himself. As for skills, well, the 4 main wrestlers of the NBT lasted 3-4 years in WWE, I think.

 

Edit: Excellent explanation for Austin, though I'm wondering how will he be of assistance to the WCW. Also, what was the honest answer?

[juggaloninjalee]

Bischoff learned from his mistakes previously in WCW. Not to put all your chips on one square. Plus with Austin being in as bad shape physically as he is it wouldn't be smart to bill him as the savior. WCW has Brock Lesnar who is on the verge of being the #1 draw in all of wrestling. Bischoff and Heyman both see it and want to run with that. Austin is just another way to solidify Brock as the #1 man in the business. If he beat 2 hall of famers who can still go and argueably the top draws of the last 10 years. That is passing the torch.

[Bigpapa42]

I guess this is a case of the game being too unrealistic. Sanders was originally going to be the manager for Lesnar in WWE before Heyman chose the spot for himself. As for skills, well, the 4 main wrestlers of the NBT lasted 3-4 years in WWE, I think.

 

Edit: Excellent explanation for Austin, though I'm wondering how will he be of assistance to the WCW. Also, what was the honest answer?

 

I honestly don't find Genadi to be overly harsh with the worker ratings. He isn't overly generous with worker stats, but being overly generous results in really high grades and that gets unrealistic in a hurry. So its a tough balance.

 

By memory, Sanders had overall Entertainment skills in the C or C+ range. As I said, not terrible. But for managers who are going to be mouthpieces I'm looking for B as a minimum. Being in the B range is someone who is quite good on the mic - and while I can't claim I've seen all of Sanders work as the NBT manage, I also don't believe I've seen him cut a promo that put him amongst the upper level guys in that regard. Being a B/B+ would put about the same level as Arn Anderson, Raven, even Paul Heyman. Being that I've never seen something from Sanders that makes me believe he was on that level, editing his entertainment skills would feel like outright cheating.

 

As for the in-ring skills of the NBT guys, I really don't think they're underrated in the game. Of the main four, it was O'Haire and Jindrak who stuck out to me in singles action at various times, or looked really good in tag matches. With Jindrak, its really more his CMLL stuff that stood out to me than his earlier work. Both of them, after some time in development, are fairly solid workers. Not outstanding, but good enough to work singles matches against mediocre opponents and still have a decent match.

 

I cannot recall anything out of Stasiak or Palumbo that really made me think they would be strong singles wrestlers. They were decent in tag action and obviously not atrocious in the ring. But nothing that makes me believe they should be getting B Psychology or B- Brawling. Did they do okay in the WWE? Yeah, but not great. Palumbo never really did anything in singles action and Stasiak never really got above the low level, Hardcore championship level. Palumbo did a bit better, but always as part of a team. He ended up having about 3-4 years in total in the WWE, while Stasiak had less than two years after his WCW run.

 

To me, guys like Palumbo and Stasiak are not too different from Brian Adams and Bryan Clark - mediocre big men who are never going to be above-average workers. Their biggest value is being part of a tag team, where built-up experience can overcome and hide their limitations. Could I have kept them around for that reason? Sure, but I already had Kronik, so...

 

The "honest answer" given to Austin was that "Stone Cold" was still a trademark owned by the WWE, as was "Stone Cold Stunner". But the trademark on "Texas Rattlesnake" was not renewed and therefore was usable by Austin, whether on his own or when he joined WCW. The idea being that the WWE staff who told him that would obviously not know that Austin was about to join WCW and didn't realize he was giving way a rather notable piece of information.

 

Bischoff learned from his mistakes previously in WCW. Not to put all your chips on one square. Plus with Austin being in as bad shape physically as he is it wouldn't be smart to bill him as the savior. WCW has Brock Lesnar who is on the verge of being the #1 draw in all of wrestling. Bischoff and Heyman both see it and want to run with that. Austin is just another way to solidify Brock as the #1 man in the business. If he beat 2 hall of famers who can still go and argueably the top draws of the last 10 years. That is passing the torch.

 

You are spot on with how Austin adds value, though it might not necessarily be against Brock Lesnar. There are some other match-ups for Austin which I think would certainly intrigue.

 

I didn't want to have a big debut for Austin in WCW, as that creates expectations amongst fans. Expectations which he simply can't deliver on by this point.

[Hashasheen]

I honestly don't find Genadi to be overly harsh with the worker ratings. He isn't overly generous with worker stats, but being overly generous results in really high grades and that gets unrealistic in a hurry. So its a tough balance.

 

By memory, Sanders had overall Entertainment skills in the C or C+ range. As I said, not terrible. But for managers who are going to be mouthpieces I'm looking for B as a minimum. Being in the B range is someone who is quite good on the mic - and while I can't claim I've seen all of Sanders work as the NBT manage, I also don't believe I've seen him cut a promo that put him amongst the upper level guys in that regard. Being a B/B+ would put about the same level as Arn Anderson, Raven, even Paul Heyman. Being that I've never seen something from Sanders that makes me believe he was on that level, editing his entertainment skills would feel like outright cheating.

Ah, I see how the skills are in comparison to real life. Sorry to Genadi, then.

 

To me, guys like Palumbo and Stasiak are not too different from Brian Adams and Bryan Clark - mediocre big men who are never going to be above-average workers. Their biggest value is being part of a tag team, where built-up experience can overcome and hide their limitations. Could I have kept them around for that reason? Sure, but I already had Kronik, so...

How good are Kronik's stats? They were pretty lousy wrestlers in WCW...

[sheepy]

You are spot on with how Austin adds value, though it might not necessarily be against Brock Lesnar. There are some other match-ups for Austin which I think would certainly intrigue.

 

I didn't want to have a big debut for Austin in WCW, as that creates expectations amongst fans. Expectations which he simply can't deliver on by this point.

 

Not sure about that. Austin was never really particularly talented in ring (save for his WCW and early WWF days) but what he did was reduce matches to brawls which were less physically demanding hiding his flaws.

 

Down playing his debut makes it seem like a bit of a nothing signing (in much the same way as Bret Hart). Austin in 2003 is still one of the biggest stars in wrestling and should be treated like that. 6 / 12 months down the line, that's when you start to phase him out of the ring.

 

Have Austin debut on Nitro in a big angle you instantly get fans switching over from Raw which is surely the name of the game at this point in WCW's evolution.

[James Casey]

Not sure about that. Austin was never really particularly talented in ring (save for his WCW and early WWF days) but what he did was reduce matches to brawls which were less physically demanding hiding his flaws.

 

Down playing his debut makes it seem like a bit of a nothing signing (in much the same way as Bret Hart). Austin in 2003 is still one of the biggest stars in wrestling and should be treated like that. 6 / 12 months down the line, that's when you start to phase him out of the ring.

 

Have Austin debut on Nitro in a big angle you instantly get fans switching over from Raw which is surely the name of the game at this point in WCW's evolution.

 

Austin's talent in the ring, certainly post '97 or so, was a lot more reliant on his psychology, intensity and charisma. In TEW he could probably anchor the main event in WCW for years to come, simply because his body wouldn't degrade the way it would in real life.

 

However, Austin never had a 'big' debut in WWF, while his first debut in WCW was a shock of sorts, upending Bobby Eaton for the TV title inside a couple of weeks. In between WCW and WWF, of course, he spent time in ECW getting fit and getting his promos in gear.

 

I can see both Bischoff and Heyman finding some poetic symmetry in Austin showing up in ECW. Given his limited physical stats, putting him there where in-ring time would be limited is wise - not to mention the issue of another broken-down ex-WWF Texan in the main event of WCW anyway. It resonates with his post-WCW stop, as well as that of Brian Pillman. It also brings attention onto ECW at a time where it seems like the first crop of stars are on the verge of graduation, and having an extra 'name' to provide continuity during the transitional period could be a bonus.

[totti]

Very surprised with the acquisition of Austin, but it's certainly gonna help you beat the Federation. I expect him to just raise hell on ECW and perhaps Nitro maybe getting an authoritarian role or maybe a spot at the commentary booth. I don't really expect him to do much wrestling because just a few months later in real life he had his final match.

 

I'm glad to hear you have plans for Sting. He can still be a very valuable member of the roster and could be used to help the newer guys get over.

 

Great work as always.

[Bigpapa42]

Ah, I see how the skills are in comparison to real life. Sorry to Genadi, then.

 

How good are Kronik's stats? They were pretty lousy wrestlers in WCW...

 

I'm sure Genadi is used to such discussion. When it comes to real world mods, stats are a very frequent topic of conversation. The simple reality is that everything is subjective and everyone is going to perceive things a little bit differently. Personally, I think Entertainment skills in the C to C+ range probably about average a lot of WWE-level talent. I don't think there is a current Diva with entertainment skills above that. And a lot of guys who get to cut fairly frequent promos aren't above that either - guys like Cody Rhodes, Matt Hardy, most of the Nexus guys...

 

I don't have the game in front of me, so I'm going by memory. The Kronik guys are not that good. They really only have brawling (probably around C- or C) and pretty average overall Performance stats (C- or C) for the most part. Basically, they are guys who can put on decent matches against good opponents, mediocre matches against decent opponents, but poor matches against poor opponents. Individually, they aren't that much use for their pure ring skills. But their tag team experience makes them decently useful, and it combines with decent overness to make them a solid enough tag team. As does their menace (both in the game and reality). The menace in the game allows them to grab overness quick if you abuse it. They are the kind of workes that can be decently valuable to the right type of promotion.

 

Not sure about that. Austin was never really particularly talented in ring (save for his WCW and early WWF days) but what he did was reduce matches to brawls which were less physically demanding hiding his flaws.

 

Down playing his debut makes it seem like a bit of a nothing signing (in much the same way as Bret Hart). Austin in 2003 is still one of the biggest stars in wrestling and should be treated like that. 6 / 12 months down the line, that's when you start to phase him out of the ring.

 

Have Austin debut on Nitro in a big angle you instantly get fans switching over from Raw which is surely the name of the game at this point in WCW's evolution.

 

I don't think fans would perceive it as a nothing signing. Its not like Austin is showing up on Nitro and the commentators are ignoring him or pretending he's a nobody. Its being done in a low-key manner in that for a full month, he's on ECW and no one is sure what his status is. Is he signed to WCW? Is he really just on there due to his friendship to Foley to cut shoot promos (unlikely, but fans will be fans)? If anything, its confusing fans as they aren't sure where things are going. And that's really the intent.

 

My first instinct was to debut him on Starrcade. Almost went that direction. Make a big deal out of it, as one would expect. But the problem with that is making a big deal means big expectations. The fans would immediately expect big feuds and big matches. And if that doesn't come through - due to Austin's physical condition, booking plans, whatever - then it becomes a disappointing signing that didn't deliver. And that's something I wanted to avoid.

 

I know Austin was always limited in the ring by the late 90s. But it seems like he was pretty bad by this point (late 2002 to early 2003). He was out much of 2002 due to personal issues, pouting, and injuries. When he came back in early 2003, I don't think he even worked a match until WrestleMania, which turned out to be his final match. Given that injuries were supposedly the biggest reason behind him retiring from the ring, I would think he would have to be in pretty poor shape by then. This is a fictionalized account, but I want to keep a fairly strong basis in reality. And realistically, I can't see Austin being a full-time active wrestler at this point - regular TV matches, working house shows, etc.

 

A big hyped debut angle might have been more appealing if WCW was going head-to-head with the WWE at this point. However, they are not even at war. Nitro is on Tuesday's, so its not direct against Raw anymore. As well, having something notable - besides good matches - happen on ECW makes it a bit more "must see" for the average WCW fan who probably doesn't bother with it.

 

Austin's talent in the ring, certainly post '97 or so, was a lot more reliant on his psychology, intensity and charisma. In TEW he could probably anchor the main event in WCW for years to come, simply because his body wouldn't degrade the way it would in real life.

 

However, Austin never had a 'big' debut in WWF, while his first debut in WCW was a shock of sorts, upending Bobby Eaton for the TV title inside a couple of weeks. In between WCW and WWF, of course, he spent time in ECW getting fit and getting his promos in gear.

 

I can see both Bischoff and Heyman finding some poetic symmetry in Austin showing up in ECW. Given his limited physical stats, putting him there where in-ring time would be limited is wise - not to mention the issue of another broken-down ex-WWF Texan in the main event of WCW anyway. It resonates with his post-WCW stop, as well as that of Brian Pillman. It also brings attention onto ECW at a time where it seems like the first crop of stars are on the verge of graduation, and having an extra 'name' to provide continuity during the transitional period could be a bonus.

 

In TEW, his physical condition would incure a penalty on each match, but that would probably be it.

 

I can even see Austin liking the idea of an ECW debut. He did have a prima donna attitude through the latter part of his WWE run, but he also had some valid points about protecting himself. I've always got the impression that he has a pretty good understanding of the business. Also,bgood catch on the Pillman connection - that's something I was going for to an extent as well.

 

Very surprised with the acquisition of Austin, but it's certainly gonna help you beat the Federation. I expect him to just raise hell on ECW and perhaps Nitro maybe getting an authoritarian role or maybe a spot at the commentary booth. I don't really expect him to do much wrestling because just a few months later in real life he had his final match.

 

I'm glad to hear you have plans for Sting. He can still be a very valuable member of the roster and could be used to help the newer guys get over.

 

Great work as always.

 

Austin will be a wrestler for the first while, though in a very limited manner. I don't want to get into details, but the intent will be to maximize his value to the promotion while minimzing his actual ring work.

 

Long-term, there are a number of possible different directions. I do really like the idea of using him as a Commissioner, since I've been looking for someone to be an upgrade of Ernest Miller. I would be hesitant to use Austin in that role for awhile, though, until he loses at least some of the "WWE feel" that he would immediately have.

 

Glad you're still enjoying.

[KrisKatana]

The way I think this is going to go down is this:

 

Austin stays on ECW bad mouthing WCW for a couple of months, Wrestling the odd match and having short feuds to keep him in the public eye.Then Austin Starts to disrupt WCW shows and does his anti-WCW shtick there.Goldberg returns and take offense to Austins Anti-WCW ramblings and challenges Austin to a match, which Austin rejects at first. At the same time Goldberg and Brock Lesnar are going after the world title at the same time, so Paul Heyman hires Austin to take care of Goldberg. Austin then interferes with a number one contender match, screwing Goldberg out of a title shot, WCW management then decides to book a match between the 2 at the next PPV.

 

This makes Austin a legitimate WCW wrestler, brings Goldberg back in a great fashion, and gives WCW fans a dream match.

 

Or maybe I'm thinking to hard about it.

[The Informant]

This is a very interesting idea and one that I like how like you said its rooted in reality. The only things I see is that Brock is in WCW in 02. I haven't read the start but Brock was pegged as a huge break out star before this (Ventura leading him to the ring in OVW I think it was or a house show or something). The guy was pretty much pegged and pushed from day one as a future champion. I'm not sure how Vince would have parted with him.

 

That and a lot of the indy talent you have CM Punk, etc. they were a few years away from being anything close to special. Heck Punk was atleast a year away from making an appearance anywhere outside of IL that was worth knowing about. So there are a few gripes but all in all its a fictional account and the write ups are different so cheers

[Bigpapa42]

The way I think this is going to go down is this:

 

Austin stays on ECW bad mouthing WCW for a couple of months, Wrestling the odd match and having short feuds to keep him in the public eye.Then Austin Starts to disrupt WCW shows and does his anti-WCW shtick there.Goldberg returns and take offense to Austins Anti-WCW ramblings and challenges Austin to a match, which Austin rejects at first. At the same time Goldberg and Brock Lesnar are going after the world title at the same time, so Paul Heyman hires Austin to take care of Goldberg. Austin then interferes with a number one contender match, screwing Goldberg out of a title shot, WCW management then decides to book a match between the 2 at the next PPV.

 

This makes Austin a legitimate WCW wrestler, brings Goldberg back in a great fashion, and gives WCW fans a dream match.

 

Or maybe I'm thinking to hard about it.

 

Nothing wrong with "thinking too hard" about it.

 

Austin won't go too far with the anti-WCW stuff. That's not an approach I particularly like, where a wrestler runs down the promotion he's in. Verbally or physically trashing Eric Bischoff is something entirely different...

 

I won't give away much, but I will say that Austin won't be on ECW for long...

 

This is a very interesting idea and one that I like how like you said its rooted in reality. The only things I see is that Brock is in WCW in 02. I haven't read the start but Brock was pegged as a huge break out star before this (Ventura leading him to the ring in OVW I think it was or a house show or something). The guy was pretty much pegged and pushed from day one as a future champion. I'm not sure how Vince would have parted with him.

 

That and a lot of the indy talent you have CM Punk, etc. they were a few years away from being anything close to special. Heck Punk was atleast a year away from making an appearance anywhere outside of IL that was worth knowing about. So there are a few gripes but all in all its a fictional account and the write ups are different so cheers

 

I'm going to wager a guess that you haven't read through the whole project? That's okay - understandable given its already getting pretty long.

 

Lesnar being signed away from WWE development by WCW is actually part of the original scenario of the data I used for the basis of the game. It was explained basically that Lesnar had a clause that allowed him out of his WWE contract if he wasn't called up to the main roster within a year. He used that clause to become a free agent and sign with WCW, who offered him a unique and lucrative contract (discussed in much detail in an "editorial" piece). Why would McMahon not counter offer or once again declare war on WCW? Because this is shortly after Bischoff bought the promotion in early 2001 and Vince basically believes Bischoff is going to run it into the ground soon.

 

The indy talent was also addressed - WCW is actively seeking out young new talent. Young talent with potential who can be molded. More importantly, young talent who work relatively cheap. Punk was working regularly with IWA:Mid South through 2002 and was working in both ROH and TNA by early 2003. I don't think its inconceivable that his work in IWA:MS got him noticed by WCW scouts and signed. Would he still be pretty raw in early 2003? Certainly, but that's why he's on the ECW developmental brand instead of Nitro.

 

Hopefully that clears some of it up for you.

[Bigpapa42]

<p></p><div style="text-align:center;"><p><strong>Project Update</strong></p></div><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>

Nothing "bad", per se. Just a heads-up that I will be on the road for most of this month. There is a very slim chance that I get the February recap posted before I head out this weekend. If not, I may get it done while travelling. I have every expectation to continue once I'm back from my holiday, but I guess this will be on hiatus to an extent for much of September. I will have Net access sporadically, so I should still be around. </p><p> </p><p>

Now, a question for you dear readers. Not a particularly important question, but still, a quesiton... Over the next while (year plus) in the game, I will be bringing in a number of tag teams. Some will be unique pairings (such as "The Enforcers", BJ Whitmer & Robert Roode) while others will be teams that were used "in reality". Whether they were in ROH, TNA, the WWE, or wherever. Now, my question is that for teams that appeared in promotions below the WWE, would readers prefer them to go by the name they used and would be most recognized by, or have them re-named. So, for example, if I paired up Robert Roode with James Harris, would people have issue with them being called "Beer Money Inc"? Would a unique name be preferrable, since that TNA name connects them to TNA? Just curious on what people think on this one....</p>

[Phantom Stranger]

<p>Depends on the team.</p><p> </p><p>

Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin had a team name that you could use for just about any promotion - they've barely tweaked it for RoH - but Beer Money is so specific about gimmicks, and neither man even started their TNA career with that gimmick...</p>

[Bigpapa42]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Phantom Stranger" data-cite="Phantom Stranger" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="28471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Depends on the team.<p> </p><p> Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin had a team name that you could use for just about any promotion - they've barely tweaked it for RoH - but Beer Money is so specific about gimmicks, and neither man even started their TNA career with that gimmick...</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Good point. And I guess that makes Beer Money a bad example. I actually thought of using "World's Greatest Tag Team" as an example, but the immediate thought is "WWE would have that trademarked". So I guess it moreso applies to teams where the name likely wouldn't be trademarked (especially if it wasn't actually used until the future) and wasn't based entirely around a gimmick or stable (such as The Prophecy).</p>

[juggaloninjalee]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bigpapa42" data-cite="Bigpapa42" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="28471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Good point. And I guess that makes Beer Money a bad example. I actually thought of using "World's Greatest Tag Team" as an example, but the immediate thought is "WWE would have that trademarked". So I guess it moreso applies to teams where the name likely wouldn't be trademarked (especially if it wasn't actually used until the future) and wasn't based entirely around a gimmick or stable (such as The Prophecy).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't mind if you use their indy tag name or WWE name but use your best judgement. For instance if you bring in SAT it wouldn't be an issue to use that name. If you brought the Hardy Boys in maybe rename them the Hardyz.</p>

[James Casey]

<p>Some names will be 'legacy' names (Backseat Boyz, SAT) and using those will be fine as the teams are already using them in the game.</p><p> </p><p>

Some names date from so far after 2003 they have no relation to the game world as it currently stands(Beer Money Inc as noted, 3 Minute Warning, the Heartbreakers, the Pitbulls).</p><p> </p><p>

Then there's the medium ground where teams were active and recognisably so during the period in the diary. I can't imagine WGTT going by such, although you could have an enforced 'Self Proclaimed' tagged onto the front. Going with a variant on their 'famous' name (Team 3D, the James Gang, Team OMEGA if you ever got the Hardys) could work as well in a scenario where the name is intrinsically linked to a team in WWF/TNA. ROH, so far as I'm aware, don't trademark their guys this way so having Ace Steel and Colt Cabana coming in as the Second City Saints wouldn't be a big deal.</p>

[Ritchardo]

For me it depends on the wrestlers involved - if its accepted that a worker brough a lot of input of his own to a gimmick or tag team in reality, then it would be reasonable to conclude that he'd do the same in this version of reality - any shaping or refining done by Vince McMahon or the Jarretts wouldn't be there obviously but it would give you enough similarities to jump off of.

 

Best and most obvious example I can think of would be CM Punk's Straight Edge gimmick which at the point of the mod starting wouldn't have been used by him (I think... I might be wrong there but it does pre-date his ROH stint) but was entirely down to him - likewise I'd have no problems as Chris Daniels appearing as 'The Fallen Angel' or 'Curry Man' but would find it a little off-putting to read about him taking on 'Suicide'.

 

The same rules apply for tag teams really - if its likely that they would have tagged together anyway due to their backgrounds or styles (e.g. Hart Dynasty) and that they would've had an input into their gimmick then it makes perfect sense. Perhaps the gimmick could still be launched but with different a worker (or workers)?

[tristram]

Wow - I feel I've been away for so long and missed so much.

 

I was wondering how you'd end Brock Lesnar's streak, and to be honest, my pick in the first place was HBK. He's a complete wrestler, so he has a lot of value in terms of holding the gold. Also, I like 'streaks' to be ended by an act of desperation, or an element of being the absolute best and taking it to the next level to beat the streakee... kind of like without detracting too much from your work what my aim was when I had Benoit go over Goldberg in Prequel building to the Starrcade showdown with Jericho. The idea simply was to establish the development of Goldberg's technical skills, his new never surrender attitude, but just losing out to an unbelievably talented wrestler. No more, no less. HBK to me is in the same class in that I don't think it devalues Brock Lesnar long term to lose to an outstanding wrestler like Michaels, while of course Michaels, as the complete package can now cornerstone the main event with a succession of brilliant matches.

 

...PS: I'd love to see HBK and Stinger feud. Much like Austin-Goldberg, in the 90s people spoke about 'dream' match ups between the promotions. Those two straight up are options you have to execute here in WCW. For the record, I was totally getting into Flair/RVD earlier, and I'd mark out to see it come to fruition again.

 

Great work again, chief.

[tonydorian]

Huge fan of this diary I just wanted to know the levels of your product. ie Is mainstream still key.

[Bigpapa42]

Thanks for the thoughts on the tag team names, guys. I think I'll take it on a case-by-case basis. There are a few teams in particular I have in mind and obviously don't want to specifically ask about them, as that gives away any potential surprise.

 

Wow - I feel I've been away for so long and missed so much.

 

I was wondering how you'd end Brock Lesnar's streak, and to be honest, my pick in the first place was HBK. He's a complete wrestler, so he has a lot of value in terms of holding the gold. Also, I like 'streaks' to be ended by an act of desperation, or an element of being the absolute best and taking it to the next level to beat the streakee... kind of like without detracting too much from your work what my aim was when I had Benoit go over Goldberg in Prequel building to the Starrcade showdown with Jericho. The idea simply was to establish the development of Goldberg's technical skills, his new never surrender attitude, but just losing out to an unbelievably talented wrestler. No more, no less. HBK to me is in the same class in that I don't think it devalues Brock Lesnar long term to lose to an outstanding wrestler like Michaels, while of course Michaels, as the complete package can now cornerstone the main event with a succession of brilliant matches.

 

...PS: I'd love to see HBK and Stinger feud. Much like Austin-Goldberg, in the 90s people spoke about 'dream' match ups between the promotions. Those two straight up are options you have to execute here in WCW. For the record, I was totally getting into Flair/RVD earlier, and I'd mark out to see it come to fruition again.

 

Great work again, chief.

 

Glad you got caught up, T. I love getting feedback from you, since your vision of WCW was such an inspiration. I have to admit the way you ended Goldberg's streak was something I looked at and used to a degree. Benoit was on the shortlist of guys I would have been happy with having end Lesnar's streak, but he's with the WWE. Even if I could've got him, I wouldn't put someone right out of the WWE over Lesnar - just wouldn't feel right.

 

As for feuds going forward... I don't want to give away plans, but I will say that I do have a couple slated that would probably be looked at as "dream feuds". And as for Flair, he will be busy...

 

Huge fan of this diary I just wanted to know the levels of your product. ie Is mainstream still key.

 

I adjusted it to a performance equals popularity product. Not sure where I found the product, but it seemed to suit my vision of WCW and it worked quite well. Mainstream is the key feature, with Traditional and Modern at heavy.

[juggaloninjalee]

It's too bad this diary won't be getting much attention this month because I check the boards every day to see if anything has been posted.

[maskedpropaganda]

I check the boards every day to see if anything has been posted.

 

I do the same. Nothing better than a good writer giving us an easy read. An awesome re-imagining BigPop!