Let's talk Fog of War!

[ripwalk]

So arguably one of the biggest new features of WMMA3 is the Fog of War feature.

 

The idea is well implemented and with the colour coding in the retail version it will be much better.

 

I don't hear much chatter about it though, the pros/cons, how people are enjoying it, how people are using it, etc. So let's open up this thread for that fact.

 

Personally, I have stated before that in a sense I almost find there is more fog on a fighter's overall skills once you get more detail. It's easy to identify with Wrestling = Strong as a broad base, but when you have so many different stats that make it up and you lose that word rating, it seems more of a guessing game, as you know more detail about the individual ratings a fighter has but less about how those individual ratings come together to make the whole. I suppose with more experience with the game it will become more clear.

 

However, I made a thread in the suggestions forum for an idea to take care of that, if anyone is interested in adding their thoughts to it:

 

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251752

 

Overall though I do like the feature. What are other people's thoughts? Are you going to use the new system, are you going to turn it off? Do you like it as is, or do you think there could be changes made?

 

Do you think it accurately simulates what it was meant to in game design?

 

What view do you use when looking at it, default or the sorted one?

 

So yes, let's just get some discussion going about fog of war and what everyone thinks of it.

[Bossman]

The scouting screen would definately be clearer if the stats were arranged to different groups (striking, wrestling...etc.) so I like that suggestion.

[Jacko00]

I like it, like real life you cannot look at fighters stats, you have to watch their fights to find out their strenghs and weaknesses.

[ripwalk]

The scouting screen would definately be clearer if the stats were arranged to different groups (striking, wrestling...etc.) so I like that suggestion.

 

Agreed, I haven't got any response on that thread from Adam, which doesn't seem positive (as he usually writes in a fixed or let's people know something will be added), but we can remain hopeful I suppose.

 

It might also be cool if it could another way to sort the stats. By default, by strengths and by category.

[ripwalk]

I like it, like real life you cannot look at fighters stats, you have to watch their fights to find out their strenghs and weaknesses.

 

Agreed, since we can't actually "watch" these fighters, it does provide a good way of mimicing how you might slowly find out more and more about a fighter.

[ripwalk]

I have a question, and not sure if anyone knows the answer after only a two month demo.. But...

 

Will the stats change in between fights, or only after a fight?

 

Say you have an aging 37 year old who has probably lost a step or two, but in his last fight say 6 months ago he was pretty decent. Next time out age will have caught up to him a bit and his stats won't be quite so good, will you see those changes BEFORE he steps in for his next fight, or only after he competes and you see he has slowed down/lost hand speed/whatever?

 

Anyone have an idea?

[Eyeball]

Right now, I'd say the FOW thing is kind of underwhelming as even for unknown fighters with very short records, you can generally tell from the "excellents" or "poors" in the scouting reports on stats you CAN see whether you want to hire the fighter or not.

 

I suppose the FOW effect will be more pronounced once regens start coming into play - they won't have bios to give away facts like "up and coming superstar boxer" or "weak chin."

[kadekash1983]

I love the Fog of War feature. Its one of the main things that stand out in my mind as a major improvement from the last game. Like someone else said it seems more helpful at lower stages when it says Wrestling:Above Average, its more simple for dummies like me. Once they hit 8/9 it just becomes a little overwhelming looking at all the stats.

[basketball45231]

I like that it gets more difficult for some when there are more fights. As the game goes on, it will be good to look at some of the complex stats, but more useful to look at who he has fought. The complex stats are even better for matchups. Want your wrestler to win? Match him up with someone who has no takedown defense.

 

One interesting thing. For the compare feature, I love that it simplifies it to which ever fighter has less experience. Match up someone 20-0 and 1-0, both fighters will have the basics displayed. Makes it much easier than comparing minute percentages and general terms.

[ripwalk]

Right now, I'd say the FOW thing is kind of underwhelming as even for unknown fighters with very short records, you can generally tell from the "excellents" or "poors" in the scouting reports on stats you CAN see whether you want to hire the fighter or not.

 

I suppose the FOW effect will be more pronounced once regens start coming into play - they won't have bios to give away facts like "up and coming superstar boxer" or "weak chin."

 

I haven't played deep enough into the game to know for sure, but I thought part of the idea was that the level 1/2 'fog' has a much greater chance of being incorrect.

 

So that "strong" in striking may end up being an average or even below average by the time a fighter becomes more well-known and has some fights. That could take what looks like a promoising prospect and make him not that attractive.

 

Vice-versa, you could find a diamond in the rough.

 

Am I wrong about that? It's hard to tell off a two month demo, but I was under the impression the first few levels have a higher chance of having incorrect data in them.

[Hawk1665]

I like it. In all of my demo games I wasn't picking guys to hire just for being great like the "hire everyone good" spam in 1 & 2. I was actually picking interesting characters. It's a novel experience.

[CoutureLegend]

I like it, like real life you cannot look at fighters stats, you have to watch their fights to find out their strenghs and weaknesses.

 

Agree, it's definitely a realistic feature.

 

One thing i would've liked is for the "FOW" level to go up, not just on how much experience a fighter has had, but also on what organization he is fighting for depending on the orgs popularity. Like for example a fighter may have alot of fights on his record but if all of them are in the 'bush leagues' & there's little to no exposure for this particular promotion then despite how many fights he's had, there would likely be MMA fans who won't have heard of him before let alone seen him fight where as someone who hasn't necessarily had alot of fights but finds himself fighting in the UFC, Strikeforce etc. then he'll gain alot more exposure, leading to more people knowing about him even tho he's not had many fights.

 

Someone like Cain Velasquez for example would only be a level 4 in the FOW system but in reality even with only 9 fights, the fact he's been fighting in the UFC has meant that there's a greater knowledge between fans of his skillset compared with someone who's maybe had 20+ fights in minor organizations.

[Tag01]

Agree, it's definitely a realistic feature.

 

One thing i would've liked is for the "FOW" level to go up, not just on how much experience a fighter has had, but also on what organization he is fighting for depending on the orgs popularity. Like for example a fighter may have alot of fights on his record but if all of them are in the 'bush leagues' & there's little to no exposure for this particular promotion then despite how many fights he's had, there would likely be MMA fans who won't have heard of him before let alone seen him fight where as someone who hasn't necessarily had alot of fights but finds himself fighting in the UFC, Strikeforce etc. then he'll gain alot more exposure, leading to more people knowing about him even tho he's not had many fights.

 

Someone like Cain Velasquez for example would only be a level 4 in the FOW system but in reality even with only 9 fights, the fact he's been fighting in the UFC has meant that there's a greater knowledge between fans of his skillset compared with someone who's maybe had 20+ fights in minor organizations.

 

I think it has more to do with actual ring time, not how many people have seen the ring time available. Most fans have seen every second of Brock's in ring career, but he still had a ton of unanswered questions going into the Cain fight. I like the way it is now, because even the greatest scout in the world can only take away so much information from a handful of fights, given that a fighter hasn't seen ever possible situation.

 

I love this feature and don't want anything changed. I know it seems easier to just look at a guy and see the simplified categories, but the fact of the matter is there are a huge number of stats for each fighter in WMMA, and you will never be able to understand the nuance to a fighter in game. That's the coolest part, given that you can have a guy with a wrestling pedigree who is a "strong" wrestler, but only after several fights are you able to determine he's a great offensive wrestler but has weak takedown defense, etc. I think it's ideal the way it is.

[ShaunGBD]

my scouts give me scouting reports not the fans. If I'm scouting a guy, I talk to my scouts. So even if a guy had 20 fight (even in the minor leagues) u know what a guy can do then a guy with 4 fights in the UFC.

[Eyeball]

Realistically, you would only know things about fighters that you've seen them display in their fights. For instance, before Lesnar, the only thing anyone really knew about Carwin was that he was huge, strong and hit very hard. He simply finished his fights with huge strikes within the first round and it wasn't until his last fight that it was revealed that his cardio and pacing are both terrible.

 

Belfort is another example - back in the day, he was hailed as the fire-fisted Jesus of MMA, destroying his first 4 opponents inside 4 minutes put together. Then he ran into Randy Couture, who exposed him as cracking easily against somebody who could resist his initial crazy punch rushes, something unknown to the MMA world before that, with everybody expecting him to blast through old fart Randy easily.

 

This type of scouting would be a cool feature, but pretty much impossible to implement.

[BYU 14]

I love the feature, but would really like the ability to keep the ratings as words instead of numbers. I like the fact that strong, average, weak, etc gives you an idea, but not a specific numeric rating.

 

This allows for some variance in the ratings and since you don't know exact numbers two fighters could be equal in a category if one is at the low of average and the other is at the high end of fair.

[Adam Ryland]

Will the stats change in between fights, or only after a fight?

 

Stats change constantly, irrespective of fights. This has been constant in the series since WMMA1.

[Greek]

Stats change constantly, irrespective of fights. This has been constant in the series since WMMA1.

 

It's natural that stat progression is dynamic but are the scout reports also dynamic? I think it would be good if they didn't get updated between fights - just after them. This simulates the fact that you really can't know how much a fighter has progressed in trainining camp untill you see him fight... I hope it works that way in the game!

[ripwalk]

It's natural that stat progression is dynamic but are the scout reports also dynamic? I think it would be good if they didn't get updated between fights - just after them. This simulates the fact that you really can't know how much a fighter has progressed in trainining camp untill you see him fight... I hope it works that way in the game!

 

 

That's kind of what I was wondering ...

[Sertorius]

It looks to me like the betting line for each fight is based on a lot more information than the player may have based on fog of war. Sometimes one fighter is a huge favourite for reasons that aren't apparent from the stats I can see or from reputation, and the oddsmakers usually seem to be right. I guess, like bookies in real life, the ones in the game get inside info, so that's one thing to pay attention to if you're playing with fog of war but still trying to decide which prospects to hype.