Board effort towards Modern Marvel mod

[MJStark]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="32676" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Even a cursory look at Adam's work would reveal that individual Avengers wouldn't be near iconic level, with the possible exception of Thor. But yeah, game balance starts becoming an issue especially at the high end. Definitely agree that you have to look at the context.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I can see the problem being with this that the marvel universe has LOADS of powerfull guys, so the mod is going to need a lot of minor characters to balance things out. Don't get me wrong, that is entirely do-able, but it's gonna be huge!</p>

[Ockbald]

There are four people in the default database at iconic popularity. As Lazorbeak said (and Adam in another thread), look through (and play!) the default data - which is already balanced - before you start giving people stats and popularity. Otherwise you (me, or anyone making a mod) simply can't know how the game plays well enough to make the mod as good as you want it to be.

 

That's the thing: Marvel Universe is bigger than Adam's, that alone makes the number of higher levelled characters bigger as well the minor league guys.

 

How I cannot make Thanos a iconic level threat when he was in several events as the solo main threat - and gave the fight of the heroes lives several times?

 

The thing is that Marvel has a really strong "street level" presence, these guys should fill the minor league, obscure and unknow portion of the mod.

 

The power "Cosmic" is often referenced as a "upper power level" in universe.

 

I just finished modding a team considered to be the "The Ultimate Sanction" in universe - And only two of team are high in the ladder (Nova Prime is Legendary and Silver Surfer is Iconic.)

 

His villains are high up in the ladder as well but that's because the reason they exist is to battle stuff like the GALACTUS ENGINE so yeah.

[jhd1]

That's the thing: Marvel Universe is bigger than Adam's, that alone makes the number of higher levelled characters bigger as well the minor league guys.

 

I understand that, and I'm not saying you should only have four characters at iconic - I'm pointing out that it is a pretty exclusive club. Just because people are well known and/or tough doesn't automatically make them Iconic in game terms. You've just got to be selective about who is truly deserving of that level, and be able to differentiate it from 'difficulty' which is an experience that only really comes from playing the game.

 

How I cannot make Thanos a iconic level threat when he was in several events as the solo main threat - and gave the fight of the heroes lives several times?

 

While I am not nearly enough of a comic buff to know anything about Thanos, look at the default data - Cape Killer - "one of the most dangerous villains in the world" - is level 8; Ragnarock required several major heroes to defeat...is level 8; Belial, one of Hell's highest ranking demons is level 9. Threat, and the difficulty of battle, don't necessarily have to come from popularity level. Even Dr Hubris, who is a level 8, is almost impossible to defeat on your own with 99% of characters.

 

I'm not saying that Thanos shouldn't be Level 10, but he doesn't have to be iconic simply because he's a bad ass.

 

The thing is that Marvel has a really strong "street level" presence, these guys should fill the minor league, obscure and unknow portion of the mod.

 

Again it depends what you mean by 'strong'. If they lose all the time, then they need to be in the lower popularity levels.

 

I am nowhere near knowledgeable enough to give you stats examples, or to even attempt to make a mod myself and I give you full credit for even attempting something like this. The only thing I'm hoping to do is help you make the best mod possible, for yourself and board, and I think there are a lot of people rushing in to mod-making without giving the actual game enough playtime to fully understand its workings.

 

Hopefully I've made my point without offending anyone (which was, of course, never my intention) - I'll quietly duck away now and let you continue

[KColl]

 

While I am not nearly enough of a comic buff to know anything about Thanos, look at the default data - Cape Killer - "one of the most dangerous villains in the world" - is level 8; Ragnarock required several major heroes to defeat...is level 8; Belial, one of Hell's highest ranking demons is level 9. Threat, and the difficulty of battle, don't necessarily have to come from popularity level. Even Dr Hubris, who is a level 8, is almost impossible to defeat on your own with 99% of characters.

 

I'm not saying that Thanos shouldn't be Level 10, but he doesn't have to be iconic simply because he's a bad ass.

 

Iconic villains to me are Doom, Ultron, Magneto, Red Skull.

 

Thanos although more powerful than all of them would be a level lower.

[lazorbeak]

Great points, jhd1. If you look at the database, you won't find a "Captain America" type character anywhere near iconic level popularity, and if he faced off with any character in Adam's mod at levels 8-10 he'd most likely be slaughtered. And if you look at his solo series, once you get past Red Skull, who is his toughest enemy and still isn't that remarkable, most of Cap's enemies are level 3-5 type villains. Basically from a balancing perspective Cap can't be iconic because he'd lose to most iconic threats (or there's way too many iconic threats out there), while at the same time be so far above his own enemies that there's no real drama that he could lose to his own signature foes. Plus, at iconic, you can't go up in popularity, eliminating one of the gameplay mechanics and if you spend your time acting the way Cap really acts (fighting low-level terrorist organizations), your popularity would invariably drop.

 

That doesn't mean there isn't an argument for Thanos to be an iconic level guy. But again, look at Adam's work and see how selective he is about giving anyone that level of popularity. I mean off the top of my head, Thanos, Galactus and Mephisto are probably level 10 villains (or maybe a wild card in Galactus' case). But in the default data, a level 10 (or even a level 9) villain showing up is grounds for assembling the biggest team-up to send them back into their home dimension or whatever. While Thanos did in fact cause major events and team ups to beat him in the original Thanos War, in the Infinity Gauntlet, etc., Dr. Doom is not the sort of guy that requires the same level of alarm. He's obviously the FF's top recurring foe, and, like Cape-Killer, most heroes would avoid chasing him down, but he's not a "world-ending" level threat. Also Doom's closest analogue in the I-Verse is not level 10, either.

 

It's an issue of scale- if Magneto is level 10, what do you do about Onslaught, a sort of combination of Xavier and Magneto that needed basically every major league hero to drive it off (and required about two dozen heroes to seemingly die). Obviously they aren't treated as equal threats in the world, even if Magneto is always a highly regarded villain.

[Ockbald]

Great points, jhd1. If you look at the database, you won't find a "Captain America" type character anywhere near iconic level popularity, and if he faced off with any character in Adam's mod at levels 8-10 he'd most likely be slaughtered. And if you look at his solo series, once you get past Red Skull, who is his toughest enemy and still isn't that remarkable, most of Cap's enemies are level 3-5 type villains. Basically from a balancing perspective Cap can't be iconic because he'd lose to most iconic threats (or there's way too many iconic threats out there), while at the same time be so far above his own enemies that there's no real drama that he could lose to his own signature foes. Plus, at iconic, you can't go up in popularity, eliminating one of the gameplay mechanics and if you spend your time acting the way Cap really acts (fighting low-level terrorist organizations), your popularity would invariably drop.

 

That doesn't mean there isn't an argument for Thanos to be an iconic level guy. But again, look at Adam's work and see how selective he is about giving anyone that level of popularity. I mean off the top of my head, Thanos, Galactus and Mephisto are probably level 10 villains (or maybe a wild card in Galactus' case). But in the default data, a level 10 (or even a level 9) villain showing up is grounds for assembling the biggest team-up to send them back into their home dimension or whatever. While Thanos did in fact cause major events and team ups to beat him in the original Thanos War, in the Infinity Gauntlet, etc., Dr. Doom is not the sort of guy that requires the same level of alarm. He's obviously the FF's top recurring foe, and, like Cape-Killer, most heroes would avoid chasing him down, but he's not a "world-ending" level threat. Also Doom's closest analogue in the I-Verse is not level 10, either.

 

It's an issue of scale- if Magneto is level 10, what do you do about Onslaught, a sort of combination of Xavier and Magneto that needed basically every major league hero to drive it off (and required about two dozen heroes to seemingly die). Obviously they aren't treated as equal threats in the world, even if Magneto is always a highly regarded villain.

 

Except Thanos is a "World Ending Level threat", he did finish the universe once you know !

 

And all this conversation made me think...If Silver Surfer is Iconic...How about Galactus?

 

Should I drop down Silver Surfer a level or two?

[jhd1]

Except Thanos is a "World Ending Level threat", he did finish the universe once you know !

 

And all this conversation made me think...If Silver Surfer is Iconic...How about Galactus?

 

Should I drop down Silver Surfer a level or two?

 

I know I said I was leaving this thread be, but I had originally replied to this exact question I just couldn't word it in a way I was happy with. The short answer is probably yes. The long answer I can't find - I'm 99% sure there is a discussion somewhere about this exact question (what level should Silver Surfer be) and whilst I can't recall the answer, I'm fairly certain it amounted to "not iconic".

[Ockbald]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jhd1" data-cite="jhd1" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="32676" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I know I said I was leaving this thread be, but I had originally replied to this exact question I just couldn't word it in a way I was happy with. The short answer is probably yes. The long answer I can't find - I'm 99% sure there is a discussion somewhere about this exact question (what level should Silver Surfer be) and whilst I can't recall the answer, I'm fairly certain it amounted to "not iconic".</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think he would be better represented as a Legendary.</p><p> </p><p> Apocarypa is pretty much Adam's Silver Surfer after all.</p>

[xthesiknessx]

I would love to help contribute to this, how can I help? I'm a huge Spider-Man fan and I would gladly fill that part of the Marvel universe.

[LittleMac]

I think it's easier to look at the 1-10 levels as actual levels of power and not of popularity.

[Ockbald]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="xthesiknessx" data-cite="xthesiknessx" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="32676" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I would love to help contribute to this, how can I help? I'm a huge Spider-Man fan and I would gladly fill that part of the Marvel universe.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Any era in particular?</p><p> </p><p> If not, I would love for you to research and do "Age of Heroes" Spidey, he had some quite interesting stories up at that time and would contribute to the "Modern Marvel Mod" I'm trying to compile.</p>

[KColl]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Ockbald" data-cite="Ockbald" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="32676" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think he would be better represented as a Legendary.<p> </p><p> Apocarypa is pretty much Adam's Silver Surfer after all.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Looks more like Dr. Manhattan to me.</p><p> </p><p> And with all those 1000s, he looked more like a Celestial to me, I mean all those 1000s makes him the most powerful char of his verse, and while SS is powerful, Thanos, galactus, the Celestials, and Skyfathers all out-power him.</p><p> </p><p> Silver Surfer taps out about 850 per attribute to me...</p>

[Ockbald]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="KColl" data-cite="KColl" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="32676" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Looks more like Dr. Manhattan to me.<p> </p><p> And with all those 1000s, he looked more like a Celestial to me, I mean all those 1000s makes him the most powerful char of his verse, and while SS is powerful, Thanos, galactus, the Celestials, and Skyfathers all out-power him.</p><p> </p><p> Silver Surfer taps out about 850 per attribute to me...</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I was refering in terms of relevance, Silver Surfer doesn't go past 850 in any stat.</p>

[KColl]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="xthesiknessx" data-cite="xthesiknessx" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="32676" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I would love to help contribute to this, how can I help? I'm a huge Spider-Man fan and I would gladly fill that part of the Marvel universe.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You could always complete the supporting cast and enemies of Spiderman.</p><p> </p><p> Here's who I have listed:-</p><p> Spiderman Supporting Cast</p><p> May Parker Mary-Jane Watson Gwen Stacy Liz Allan</p><p> Betty Brant Jean DeWolff J. Jonah Jameson Robbie Robertson</p><p> Flash Thompson </p><p> </p><p> Spiderman Enemies</p><p> Beetle Boomerang Carnage Doctor Octopus</p><p> Electro Green Goblin Hydro-Man Jackal</p><p> Kraven the Hunter Lizard Mr. Negative Morbius</p><p> Mysterio Sandman Scorpion Shocker</p><p> Tinkerer Venom Vulture Circus Of Crime</p><p> Enforcers</p>

[KColl]

Here's a query, how do we count Nick Fury and SHIELD agents? As civilians?

[Ockbald]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="KColl" data-cite="KColl" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="32676" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Here's a query, how do we count Nick Fury and SHIELD agents? As civilians?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Nick Fury should be an active hero and so should be the SHIELD agents.</p><p> </p><p> After all how would they battle generic soldiers of A.I.M, Hydra and other organizations?</p>

[KColl]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Ockbald" data-cite="Ockbald" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="32676" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Nick Fury should be an active hero and so should be the SHIELD agents.<p> </p><p> After all how would they battle generic soldiers of A.I.M, Hydra and other organizations?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Point well made...</p>

[xthesiknessx]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Ockbald" data-cite="Ockbald" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="32676" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Any era in particular?<p> </p><p> If not, I would love for you to research and do "Age of Heroes" Spidey, he had some quite interesting stories up at that time and would contribute to the "Modern Marvel Mod" I'm trying to compile.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> i can probably come up with something for that. right now i'm working on the Spider-Man universe for a mod, no particular era in mind, just like a complete universe. I'm sure it wouln't be hard to edit.</p>

[KColl]

Progress Report

 

Just over hundred heroic\anti-hero\wildcard chars done so far.

 

Moving onto the international heroes next.

[KColl]

Here is who I've done so far:-

 

 

Marvel Comics

The Avengers

Captain America Thor Iron Man Ms. Marvel

Pulsar Winter Soldier Vision

 

Fantastic Four

Reed Richards Invisible Woman The Thing Human Torch

 

The West Coast Avengers

War Machine Hercules She-Hulk Wonder Man, Spider-Woman Tigra USAgent

 

The International Avengers

Black Panther Storm Sabra Black Widow

Union Jack Shang-Chi Brother Voodoo.

 

 

The Defenders

Doctor Strange Valkyrie Devil-Slayer

Blazing Skull Nighthawk Gargoyle Clea

 

Heroes 4 Hire

Luke Cage Iron Fist Misty Knight Colleen Wing

Cloak & Dagger

 

 

Native Pride

American Eagle Echo Forge Puma

Red Wolf

 

Avengers Academy

Hank Pym Doc Samson Gauntlet

 

The Thunderbolts

Hawkeye The Falcon

 

Ghost Atlas Moonstone Songbird

Taskmaster Paladin

 

The New Warriors

Night Thrasher Rage Thor Girl Ultra Girl

Justice Firestar Speedball

 

The Slingers

Prodigy Ricochet Hornet Dusk.

 

Agents Of Atlas

Jimmy Woo The Uranian Gorilla Man

Namora M-11 Venus.

 

Earth Force

Earth Lord Wind Warrior Skyhawk

 

Solos

Hulk A-Bomb Skaar Red Hulk

Ghost Rider Spiderman Stingray Jim Hammond

Daredevil Jocasta Black Cat Sleepwalker

Mockingbird Shroud

Prowler Namor Battlestar Demolition Man Cardiac Hellcat Blue Shield Jennifer Kale Captain Ultra Force Solo

Moon Knight Frank Castle Scarlet Spider Triathlon

Son Of Satan Topaz Santana Hellstrom

[Ockbald]

Here is who I've done so far:-

 

 

Marvel Comics

The Avengers

Captain America Thor Iron Man Ms. Marvel

Pulsar Winter Soldier Vision

 

Fantastic Four

Reed Richards Invisible Woman The Thing Human Torch

 

The West Coast Avengers

War Machine Hercules She-Hulk Wonder Man, Spider-Woman Tigra USAgent

 

The International Avengers

Black Panther Storm Sabra Black Widow

Union Jack Shang-Chi Brother Voodoo.

 

 

The Defenders

Doctor Strange Valkyrie Devil-Slayer

Blazing Skull Nighthawk Gargoyle Clea

 

Heroes 4 Hire

Luke Cage Iron Fist Misty Knight Colleen Wing

Cloak & Dagger

 

 

Native Pride

American Eagle Echo Forge Puma

Red Wolf

 

Avengers Academy

Hank Pym Doc Samson Gauntlet

 

The Thunderbolts

Hawkeye The Falcon

 

Ghost Atlas Moonstone Songbird

Taskmaster Paladin

 

The New Warriors

Night Thrasher Rage Thor Girl Ultra Girl

Justice Firestar Speedball

 

The Slingers

Prodigy Ricochet Hornet Dusk.

 

Agents Of Atlas

Jimmy Woo The Uranian Gorilla Man

Namora M-11 Venus.

 

Earth Force

Earth Lord Wind Warrior Skyhawk

 

Solos

Hulk A-Bomb Skaar Red Hulk

Ghost Rider Spiderman Stingray Jim Hammond

Daredevil Jocasta Black Cat Sleepwalker

Mockingbird Shroud

Prowler Namor Battlestar Demolition Man Cardiac Hellcat Blue Shield Jennifer Kale Captain Ultra Force Solo

Moon Knight Frank Castle Scarlet Spider Triathlon

Son Of Satan Topaz Santana Hellstrom

Great job! Mind sharing the early file? I would love to see your stats and use them as a base.

[KColl]

Great job! Mind sharing the early file? I would love to see your stats and use them as a base.

 

PM me your email address and I'll send a copy.

[KColl]

This is what I intend to get finished before Xmas:-

 

 

M.I. 13

Captain Britain Meggan Psylocke Micromax

Excalibur Black Knight, Spitfire Blade.

 

Alpha Flight

Guardian Vindicator Puck Aurora

Northstar Shaman Talisman Snowbird Sasquatch

 

The Winter Guard

Darkstar Vostok Red Guardian Ursa Major

Perun Vanguard Crimson Dynamo

 

Big Hero Six

Silver Samurai Sunfire Sunpyre Surge Cherry Blossom Honey Lemon.

 

Immortal Weapons

Prince of Orphans Fat Cobra Dog Brother #1 Steel Serpent

Bride Of Nine Spiders Tiger’s Beautiful Daughter.

 

Foreign Solos

Silverclaw Vormund Askari the Spear Arabian Knight

Le Peregrine Silver Sable Monsoon Black Tarantula

El Aguila White Tiger Kestrel Maverick

Wildstreak Windshear Dr. Druid Elektra

 

 

I know posters are working on Mutants (THOSE DAMN MUTIES), and cosmics, but is anyone working on rogue's galleries yet?

[Ockbald]

I'm working on random galatic threats, like Magus, the Skrulls and so on. Having villains is the key for a successful mod.

 

akimeru@gmail.com -> Here is the email

[KColl]

Sent.