Neverending Monday Night Wars HYPE

[juggaloninjalee]

To further the info I already sent to the OP...

 

The issue with most "WCW survive scenarios" is the period of 1998-2000, where WCW made an endless series of mistakes that eroded the popuarlity and stability of the promotion. Which is partly what led to the death of WCW, along with other factors. Having a divergence point from the real time-line somewhere in that period means that some of those mistakes still have happened and WCW has seen a bit of a decline. So the Monday Night War becomes less of a war, which is not what the OP is intending.

 

I would have a divergence point beginning right at Starrcade '97. A brilliant year-long build resulting in a match that made a lot of fans angry. So instead of the goofy restart finish, Sting goes over Hogan clean in the way that almost every WCW fan wanted. The early part of 1998 sees Sting, Bret Hart, and a few other key babyfaces really dismantle the New World Order and take WCW back.

 

Diverging from reality and reducing the mistakes made brings up the thought how that happened. Did Eric Bischoff simply turn out even smarter and avoid the pitfalls he actually fell into? Part of the real issue is that Bischoff allowed the inmates to run the asylum to a degree, and the likes of Nash and Hogan did everything possible to keep themselves at the top. I would probably have Bischoff give a significant degree of creative oversight to someone else within WCW management so that he can focus on the business side - someone like Tony Schiavone, or perhaps someone brought in from outside. Someone who would push to keep Nash, Hogan, and the other major egos in line and have the guts to trust the younger guys.

 

Thunder started up in early '98 and was given little attention after the first bit. I would have the new individual in charge of creative to use it as a show to highlight the younger talent. Guys like Jericho would get plenty of air-time, whereas Nitro would moreso feature the veteran "stars". While it would not be a full brand split or an intentional division of hte roster, it would gradually serve to show WCW management that the younger guys do have fans, as Thunder would do really solid ratings. This would justify some of these guys getting stronger pushes through late 1998 and early 1999.

 

WCW would still fall behind the WWF in terms of ratings but not that far behind. It would moreso be the WWF grabbing the momentum with Austin-vs-McMahon while WCW is coming down off a peak. As WCW would avoid one of their major real mistakes and actually manage to build some new stars beyond Goldberg, they would remain relatively close to the WWF. So the war continues to be a war, even if it cools off just a bit.

 

There could be a few talent jumps back and forth. The idea being that WCW & the WWF trade the top position every so often, especially one when hits on a hot storyline. I would probably have Hogan jump to the WWF in about 2001, becaues that would be something the WWF could make a big deal out of. I would have the mod start up somewhere in the 2001-2003 range, with the WWF having the lead. The reason is that both promotions could have pretty strong rosters plus there would be a number of new stars waiting to be made. I would try to make sure WCW had a fairly strong roster with some younger talents. Not that they have all the young stars or anything, but at least a few key guys who would make running WCW through this period really fun.

 

Another intersting thought is the WCW ownership after the start of 2001. If business doesn't tank, keeping them as part of the AOL-TW empire would be justifiable. But I might still have someone buy them out and look to move programming. Someone like Mark Cuban is an easy choice, if a bit overused.

 

What to do about ECW is an interesting question. I would actually lean toward keeping them in business - have Heyman bring in a business partner who keeps them afloat. They tone down the hardcore product a bit, though stay edgy, which gets them back on TV. They lose some key talent - both RVD and Rhino to WCW - but begin the process of building new stars. So rather than having ROH, you have a slightly modified verion of ECW that has some of the same talent that ROH would use. But the guy carrying ECW is someone no one would expect - Jeff Jarrett. After falling out with WCW and with nowhere else go, he ends up taking some dates with ECW. And the fans hate him. Which Heyman capitalizes on beautifully, having Jarrett be the "voice of tradition" who stands against everything ECW is - a bit like Jerry Lawler was before.

 

The key to making a project like this interesting, in my opinion, is not just doing things differently but giving potential users something they can't get in other mods. That's why I would avoid killing ECW in favor of ROH and/or TNA. That's why I would try to have a WCW that has some key young stars who were actually lost - the likes of Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero... Having those guys still in WCW makes it a notable different experience to run WCW compared to Genadi's 2001 mod or even his 2002 alt mod.

 

BP I love your thought process. A few things I would like to touch on.

 

I like the idea of WCW still being sold. I think Donald Trump would be a good one to sell it to. And since in this scenario WCW was doing well it would have to be sold for more than a couple of million. Maybe tens of millions which is why WWE didn't buy it this time around.

 

With WCW still around WWE probably couldn't justify buying ECW out because it would be handicapping them in their war against WCW. This could work as to keeping ECW alive but personally I don't want ECW alive. Even with a beautifully explained Jeff Jarrett in ECW I'd rather have ROH.

 

Maybe WCW could buy ECW while under Time Warner still. Bischoff as head booker always liked bringing in ECW guys so this could work and make sense for an invasion. WCW always wanted to relive the nWo success and that could be another way they tried to create it.

 

If people want to keep the hardcore thing going CZW and XPW can be chosen. There is no substitute to ROH really and ROH helped get a lot of indy guys noticed in the 2000's.

 

With WCW around maybe TNA doesn't open though. Maybe Jeff Jarrett and Jerry go and work on the west coast for NWA Hollywood in a couple years? Or Jeff goes to AAA in Mexico.

 

I still prefer to see ECW dead and their decent but not star workers go to upstarts ROH and TNA. I'm thinking WWE has a killer tag divison to counter WCW's cruiserweight divison. Beniot/Malenko in WWE as a team perhaps.

 

I agree and if TNA is in this cool... if not that is fine by me too.

 

I actually really like this idea, perhaps so that everyone's happy you can say that ECW didn't tone the product down or not that much, and because of this as we start the game are in the shit financially, which allows anyone playing as ECW a chance to save them, or anyone playing as the WWE or WCW to crush them and have an 'Invasion'.

 

Leaving ECW's future as an option (still alive but financially in trouble) for a 2001 starting date would be cool. It would give the user a chance to save or buy out the promotion.

[ATN90]

I think they even had it fought over in a junkyard at one point.

 

Oh, the horror!

[Bigpapa42]

To me, having ECW still around isn't about giving the hardcore fans something to do. Its about giving users an option that doesn't exist in another mod. ECW still has a lot of fans. No mod after Genadi's January 2001 has them as an actual option. Someone wanting to run ROH can do so in Genadi's 2002 mod, the 2006 mod, any current day mod, and any of the proposed mid-2000s mods. If someone is mostly interested in running ROH, would a WCW-survives fantasy scenario likely be specifically more appealing than a regular real world mod? Perhaps to some, but to most, I don't see why.

 

Don't get me wrong - I love ROH. But a lot of what I love about ROH is stuff that ECW was doing before it. ECW didn't have the pure wrestling focus of ROH, but there was that element to ECW, so if you downplay the hardcore element somewhat, you get an edgy promotion with great wrestling, great talent, and great characters. To me, that combines the best of both ECW and ROH. And I think that appeals to a wider swath of potential users than the "pure wrestling" of ROH.

[juggaloninjalee]

To me, having ECW still around isn't about giving the hardcore fans something to do. Its about giving users an option that doesn't exist in another mod. ECW still has a lot of fans. No mod after Genadi's January 2001 has them as an actual option. Someone wanting to run ROH can do so in Genadi's 2002 mod, the 2006 mod, any current day mod, and any of the proposed mid-2000s mods. If someone is mostly interested in running ROH, would a WCW-survives fantasy scenario likely be specifically more appealing than a regular real world mod? Perhaps to some, but to most, I don't see why.

 

Don't get me wrong - I love ROH. But a lot of what I love about ROH is stuff that ECW was doing before it. ECW didn't have the pure wrestling focus of ROH, but there was that element to ECW, so if you downplay the hardcore element somewhat, you get an edgy promotion with great wrestling, great talent, and great characters. To me, that combines the best of both ECW and ROH. And I think that appeals to a wider swath of potential users than the "pure wrestling" of ROH.

 

I can go for that. Maybe have some of those guys who helped make ROH build to a brighter future for ECW. Colt Cabana, Claudio Castagnoli, Chris Hero, Samoa Joe, CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Low Ki, and Austin Aries... they could all play some part in a cult level ECW.

[jhd1]

I am totally unsurprised that I am fully behind Bigpapa's vision. It's creative, it makes sense, and given how fantastic his WCW diary is, makes me want a BP created mod. Now.

 

I know Paul Heyman has a tendency to bend the truth slightly, but perhaps ECW landed a new TV show, or were given their InDemand money on time and that helped keep them afloat long enough to survive until the mod begins?

[juggaloninjalee]

I am totally unsurprised that I am fully behind Bigpapa's vision. It's creative, it makes sense, and given how fantastic his WCW diary is, makes me want a BP created mod. Now.

 

I know Paul Heyman has a tendency to bend the truth slightly, but perhaps ECW landed a new TV show, or were given their InDemand money on time and that helped keep them afloat long enough to survive until the mod begins?

 

I echo your words. Was against ECW being in this but find myself wanting them in now with a chance for survival. Maybe an athlete from Philly financially backs ECW to keep it going.

 

I love what if scenarios! There are endless possibilities.

 

BP keep more of your ideas coming!!!

[MJStark]

Given the close ties DDP had to Bischoff, this particular idea strikes me as being a bit weird. Please elaborate on why you think he'd leave WCW.

 

Well based on not knowing that he probably wouldn't

 

Please remember folks, anything I write is just throwing ideas out there, its not my mod, I just like the idea and am running with it

 

OK, here is my idea in a nutshell

 

WCW take over ECW and offer contracts to various ECW workers. WCW keeps ECW going while the contracts they dont want to renew expire. In this time Rhino drops the TV title to RVD and WCW secure the Dudley Boyz when their WWE contract expires, shoving them in ECW and having them win the ECW Tag Titles.

 

While this is happening WCW workers invade ECW, ECW workers invade WCW, Bischoff & Heyman going nose to nose in the centre of the ring, leading to a company vs company joint PPV, winner takes the spoils, with three title unification matches

 

ECW Television & WCW US

RVD vs Booker T

 

ECW Tag & WCW World Tag

Dudleyz vs Chuck Palumbo & Sean O'Haire

 

ECW World & WCW World

Rhino vs DDP

 

Most titles matches won at the end wins. In predictable fashion RVD wins his match, Palumbo & O'Haire win theirs, it all comes down to the final match and with a little help from Bischoff DDP wins.

 

Following this a selection of lower & midcard folks are cut from WCW to fit in the ECW guys that are wanted:

Tommy Dreamer

TAZ

Rob Van Dam

Subu

Little Guido

Spike Dudley

Jerry Lynn

Justin Credible

Super Crazy

Yoshiro Tajiri

Steve Corino

Masato Tanaka

The Sandman

Mikey Whipwreck

 

Sandman didnt last long, and the WWE snapped him up, only to job him out to the rising star of Randy Orton and drop him a month later. Tommy Dreamer didn't stay on the main roster for long, but was sent to [development promotion] as a trainer. RVD, TAZ, Lynn, Credible, Corino & Tanaka put in the mid-card and the rest into the cruiser div.

 

With the cruiser division hugely popular combined with the high-flying style of WCW US champ RVD blowing up the ratings WCW decided to focus a little more on the wrestling. In this environment workers like Lynn & TAZ also thrived. During this time Goldberg had been developing his skills and on his return his hard-hitting style was as popular as ever. But by mid 2002 WCW's viewing figured were peaking at the mid-card, and dropping off for the main event.

 

DDP had dropped the WCW World title to Hogan in late 2001 as his contract required it. The fans actually booed a newly face turned Hulk Hogan! A month later Hogan dropped the title back to DDP, without knowing it was going to happen. They planned a ref bump spot, but Hogan didn't know it would be Bischoff in a refs shirt who would run out as the replacement. When Bischoff refused to count Hogan went ape-sh*t and was ready to knock Bischoff out, the crowd lapped it up. Bischoff got out of the ring, grabbed a mic and told the world that Hogan's schitck just couldn't cut it in WCW anymore. DDP legit leveled Hogan from behind with brass knuckles, covered him and Bischoff made the 3 count. As far as the crowd were concerned, business as normal, Bischoff screwed Hogan, the crowd liked it.

 

The aftermath saw Hogan & Nash walk out of Nitro that night and turn up at that weeks Smackdown tapings looking for a job. Vince put them on air that night, Hogan badmouthed WCW & Bischoff like crazy. The crowd cheered, well, most of them. A few, more vocal, fans started chanting 'You got knocked out!'. Vince had them ejected from the building.

 

A few months later (May 2002) DDP dropped the title to Jeff Jarrett. Jarrett had been promised a decent run with the title. But then the unthinkable happened, Kurt Angle signed on the dotted line with WCW. Kurt had been riding high in the WWE, but wanted a change of pace. With all but the PPVs and House Shows now filmed at Warner Bro Studios in LA Kurt could sit back and work on his tan, resting between shows rather than dragging his ass across America, he refused to do house shows. Bischoff decided to hotshot the title on Kurt on his debut at the next PPV. Jarrett was far from happy and asked for his release. Jarrett dropped the title clean to Kurt in what many people have said was the finest match of Jarrett's career. Then Jarrett grabbed the mic and simply told the world he'd had enough of this crap and walked out. He opened TNA with the backing of the NWA not long after and various former WCW & WWE (and some current WCW) stars joined him.

 

With Kurt on top of the ladder things changed rapidly. Bischoff needed guys who could hang with the kind of skills Angle had at the top of the card and fast. Bret Hart was the obvious choise for first feud, but others were needed too. At this point Heyman chimed in (he was kept around as a manager/commentator) and pointed out that TAZ was one of those people.

 

It was also noted that Scott Steiner was not, plus he was a pain backstage. After a particularly bad incident involving a female fan's genitals, a bottle of champaigne and a lawsuit Bischoff just fired the guy. TAZ was pushed hard and handled himself well as the silent destroyer. He didn't win the title but his place was firmly set.

 

Ric Flair also ducked out on WCW, but purely based on money, Vince just offered him more. This left another hole in the Main Event scene. Once again, Bischoff listened to Heyman and gave the super-hot RVD a try at the main event. RVD & Bret Hart vs Angle & TAZ on Nitro in the last week of September 2002 will probably go down in history as the turning point for WCW. Not only did it show that you could have entertaining wrestlers who actually had skills, but that nights episode of RAW's rating were the lowest they had ever been, period.

 

Three months later the mod begins...

 

OK, so it was my idea for WCW in a big nutshell

 

Sorry again, I can stop anytime anyone tells me to

 

 

EDIT: Spent so long typing this up I missed an entire page of stuff

[juggaloninjalee]

So how about we try to tackle what if scenarios for Vince Russo, Rob Feinstein, and Gabe Sapolsky...

 

No TNA and Vince Russo never goes there. TNA opens up he probably goes there with Jeff Jarrett. Would be be in WCW or would be go back to WWE? Would be start his own thing?

 

ROH can't be born without Feinstein and Sapolsky right? For them to open it though I think ECW had to close. ECW stays open what happens? Sapolsky still opens ROH but not in Philly?

[Bigpapa42]

Have to say that I like MJ Stark's concepts as well. Which highlights an issue with trying to set up a project like this - sorting throught the endless possibilities.

 

I can go for that. Maybe have some of those guys who helped make ROH build to a brighter future for ECW. Colt Cabana, Claudio Castagnoli, Chris Hero, Samoa Joe, CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Low Ki, and Austin Aries... they could all play some part in a cult level ECW.

 

Indeed. I think an ECW that survives would work best as a melding between ECW as we knew it before and ROH. Find a way to highlight the best of both to create a really cool #3 promotion. Something that would be very fun to run, in terms of talent and in terms of overall promotional concept.

 

I am totally unsurprised that I am fully behind Bigpapa's vision. It's creative, it makes sense, and given how fantastic his WCW diary is, makes me want a BP created mod. Now.

 

I know Paul Heyman has a tendency to bend the truth slightly, but perhaps ECW landed a new TV show, or were given their InDemand money on time and that helped keep them afloat long enough to survive until the mod begins?

 

Thanks. I have to admit that I did look at setting up a TEW mod for my second "WCW survives" project. I wasn't really keen on taking on a full project based on full fantasy booking. But after toying around a bit, I realized how much work it would take to set up a mod to run smoothly. The topic has come up against recently as someone on another forum asked me about it and it was an interesting thought, esepcially as I'm all the way to early 2007 in that project and the world is at least a decent-bit different.

 

If I wasn't working on that project now, I might consider taking it on (assuming Genadi was okay with me making a fantasy mod based on one of his projects) but I know how much effort that it takes.

 

I think there are a ton of ways you can have ECW survive. Maybe even something as simple as having Rob Feinstein put some money into it so his video company doesn't lose its primary material. That keeps ECW going for a few months until Heyman can lure another TV deal. What I would probably do for the mod is have them start with almost no money but some decent-sized contracts (say, if Jarrett was there), but add in narrative that gives them a money boost right after the mod starts - the investor putting their money in. If you would rather have ECW die, you can delete that narrative.

 

I echo your words. Was against ECW being in this but find myself wanting them in now with a chance for survival. Maybe an athlete from Philly financially backs ECW to keep it going.

 

I love what if scenarios! There are endless possibilities.

 

BP keep more of your ideas coming!!!

 

Having money come in from an unusual source like a pro athlete is a unique idea.

 

As for your earlier comment about having Trump buy WCW... I have to admit i'm always kind of against Trump as an owner. He's an easy pick - rich, has a bit of a history with wrestling. But I never get the sense he really likes wrestling. He's also a businessman-first and I don't know he would buy into WCW without being sure it was going to make money. And that's a tough thing to be certain of. That's why I tend to lean toward Cuban - its just as cliched as Trump, but Cuban likes wrestling, plus he owns a TV network so there is that tie-in. As a sports franchise owner, he's a guy who is willing to buy expensive toys that don't guarantee returns. I just see Cuban as more willing to take on a vanity project than Trump.

[Warhawk8492]

I am thinking for other promotions another option could be a more prominent NWA with several smaller territories as subsidiaries. Maybe with Jim Cornette as booker.

[evileddie10]

A few random thoughts of my own.

 

TNA, I would have TNA open, but without the Jarrett influence, have it open up in New York, as the Russo/Ferrera Crash TV style fed, over the top gimmicks, various objects on a pole matches etc. But in this TNA, no X-Division. The purpose of this TNA, will be mainly a way that Russo will attempt to show that WCW was wrong in letting him go etc. I would say it would open around may 2002, like in real life, as Russo was legit out of the business due to his concussion, maybe have WCW fire him, during his injury, making Russo wanting to start TNA in an effort to get back at WCW. In terms of the talent roster, Since this TNA will not have the "southern" vibe, the talent will be local tri-state workers, those not in ECW, and workrate-wise, are more mic orientated than in-ring.

 

XWF, The short lived Jimmy Hart fed, maybe with Hulk Hogan, not having the same stroke in WCW anymore, feels the need to stay number 1, what better way than with his good old buddy Jimmy Hart. Also add in a distance in the relationship of Hogan and Bischoff, due to Bischoff realising in order to keep his job, he needs WCW to succeed, and attempts to not be "one of the boys" and distances himself from Hogan, maybe even getting rid of creative control in as many contracts as possible. Large regional, maybe cult fed, based on family friendly nostaglia. Hulkamania running wild, in yellow and red. Brutus Beefcake, Nasty Boys, Earthquake etc... Basically a "legends of wrestling" tour.

 

NWA, The rebirth of old school. With the Bischoff-Flair relationship not being on the best of terms, Flair gets out of WCW. Japan or WWF/E are really his only options, until Dusty Rhodes steps in, and he and Flair hatch a plan to rebuild the NWA. The product will be southern rasslin from the 80s. Steamboat and other "old guards" from southern wrestling territories of the 80s, not locked up in WWF/E or WCW, or elsewhere, would be working behind the scenes. In terms of the talent, I would think real life early TNA, spice in a few big name indy workers available that fit the "southern style". I could see Dustin Rhodes and David Flair being involved in the roster, Dustin as a big star, with David, being more of a midcard act. Maybe name the promotion after Dusty's short lived promotion, Turnbuckle Championship Wrestling. Or to borrow promotion names from iDom, Ric Flair Promotions. The name would still need to be thought about, as even in this alt reality, the NWA would still be an "alliance", but with one figure head promotion.

 

Small other stuff: I think the WWE name change should still happen, as the Fund would still file the lawsuit/courtcase/whatever it actually was. On the ECW debate, Maybe have Dixie Carter get involved, have Heyman look for financial backing, and having found Dixie gets the extra money, however, Dixie wants the hardcore element toned down, hence the shift in style, to have it be a mix of ROH and ECW, but keep the original spirit of ECW alive. Maybe have the more hardcore based workers like sandman, leave ECW, and either join CZW or XPW, or a new small promotion in philly opened by, lets say Tod Gordon for now, that is like hardcore homing and various other philly hardcore promotions.

 

Just some random thoughts.

[Hive]

I think the most important thing here, regardless of which direction you choose, is to have it all make sense. Decisions needs to tie into each other and have basis in reality.

 

Here's my thoughts, for what they are worth:

 

WCW:

They are the core promotion of this mod, from what I understand. The important thing here is then to decide what has changed here, leadership wise. Because a big change is needed. Did Bischoff get someone with a fresh take in his ear? Or did they fire Bischoff? If Bischoff is gone, I see guys like Hogan, Jimmy Hart and DDP going with him. Perhaps with Jarrett to TNA. If Bischoff is still around, so should Hogan and DDP be. And some of his other close allies/friends.

 

Also, one should remember that if WCW in this scenario have been pushing guys like Guerrero, Jericho, Benoit Malenko, Storm, Mysterio et all heavily - then that must come at a cost. Because just like they were held back at the midcard irl, someone else must be so because of them in this mod. And irl, the guys on top keeping them down were guys like Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Scott Steiner and so on. So a lot of these "old time" guys, depending on who's in charge of WCW, should be gone. Some to WWF, but most perhaps to Jarrett's TNA.

 

Top guys, apart from Jericho et all, should be Sting, Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Booker T - and probably Bill Goldberg, as it would be feasible to have him better treated in this alternate reality. Maybe even throw in Owen Hart, saying that in this reality his ropes didn't break and he eventually jumped ship.

 

With Jericho et all out of the cruiserweight division and into the main event, they instead turn towards Japanese (and maybe Mexican) stars to bolster their cruiserweight ranks - signing guys like The Great Sasuke, Hayabusa (who, of course did not break his neck in this reality), Jushin Thunder Liger and the likes.

 

WWF:

Since this is a fantasy what-if scenario, I personally think it would be fun to say that they won the trademark battle with the panda guys. The old WWF reeks of much more nostalgia.

 

They should have all the usual suspects such as Austin, The Rock, Undertaker, Kurt Angle and Triple H as top draws. Maybe having stolen a few disgruntled guys from WCW along the way such as The Giant/Big Show, Regal, Sid Vicious, Nash and Hall.

 

Not managing to sign Jericho et all as in real life, they instead decide to focus more on women's wrestling in order to try to counter the highly successful cruiserweight attraction of WCW.

 

They should have the best tag team scene of all promotions with teams like The Dudleys, The Hardy Boyz and Edge & Christian tearing down the house. Even more focus should be put on this division, also as an attempt to counter WCW and offer something they somewhat lack.

 

People like Cena, Batista and Lesnar should either be groomed in WWF delopment or on the main roster, depending on the start date.

 

TNA:

TNA should be lead by Jarrett, his father, Vince Russo and Dutch Mantell. They would be joined by some of the former main eventers at WCW who were unhappy about losing their top spots to the cruiserweight division (Jericho et all). Could be guys like Scott Steiner, Hall, Nash - and if WCW is not lead by Bischoff, he should be there with Hogan and DDP as well. If Hogan is *not* in TNA, then Randy Savage should definately - being the top face feuding with Jarrett over the belt.

 

TNA could also be joined by some of the midcarders from WCW and, especially, WWF who were not given a lot of screen time at the time and wants to try their luck elsewhere. Chris Kanyon, Hugh Morrus and such. I basically see TNA with few (but of course some) "unknown" wrestlers and instead relying on name power and veteran wrestlers that were never given a real chance in the big two.

 

ECW:

Lots of talk has been going on about ECW, so I won't add much here. I see them, of course, losing some of their top guys - but signing new and exciting wrestlers to fill their gaps. ECW should be a mix between ECW and ROH and push new guys like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, etc. A little less hardcore, a bit more pure.

 

Alternatively to WCW doing it, ECW could be the ones sporting exciting foreign cruiserweight stars.

 

Japan:

And of course, it would be a fine idea generally to send some guys to Japan and vice versa - just to spise things up a bit. Maybe Misawa went to WWF, being promised a huge push there, instead of opening NOAH? Maybe Stan Hansen got control of AJPW after Giant Baba's death, opening them up and bringing in more foreign stars? Some of the North American talents could have started out in Japan to hone their skills. Hell, maybe The Giant/Big Show went to AJPW and became champion (Japan always loves big monster Americans).

 

Mexico:

I don't know much about lucha libre wrestling, but *something* could/should probably be done here as well.

 

Either way, I think you should sit down and devise a strategy and purpose for each promotion and then try to make sense of what could realisticly happen under those circumstances. And most importantly: try to make the promotions a bit distinctive.

[Ben5]

There has been some talk about WCW buying ECW. You have to remember that Heyman HATED Bischoff. There is no way they would coexist in WCW. ECW was also getting some cash from WWF, so it's that much more unlikely that WCW would end up buying them.

 

I like the idea that ECW is still around, albeit with a more wrestling oriented product. On the other hand, if Bischoff was in TNA with Jarrett, it would be fun to think of what Heyman might do with some world class talent and loads of cash in WCW.

[Markw]

My thoughts on some potential happenings in the big three...

 

WCW - The mod focuses around the guys who didn't get the pushes they deserved in real life, so guys like Jericho would be towards the top of the ladder, wouldn't mind seeing Guerrero and Benoit being upper-midcarders just on the verge of breaking into the Main Event scene as they where in the WWE at this time.

 

Bret Hart would probably be starting to drop out of the title picture at this time, having previously held the belt in the late-90's, helping to get guys like Jericho and Benoit over as he winds down his career. Wouldn't be totally against one or two of the great midcarders WCW had not being capitalized on, perhaps Rey Mysterio being unmasked as he was in real life, falling out with Bischoff and returning to ECW or moving to the WWF/E.

 

WWF - I'd still suggest that the WWF should be ahead of WCW due to the success of the attitude era, but wouldn't mind something that weakens them at the start of the game, Shawn Michaels still picking up his back injury, maybe a few injury problems at the start of the game to weaken the WWF so that they are forced to replace guys like Rock/Austin etc. in the short term and maybe see them being forced away from the attitude era.

 

In this scenario I'd have guys like Lesnar/Cena/Batista/Orton all in the WWF still and being pushed really quickly but perhaps a little too early, before they've been able to develop their performance skills properly. The WWF should still be the bigger promotion because of guys like Taker, Rock, Austing, HHH etc. but this would make playing as the WWF much more of a challenge, although it may not appeal to many, I'm just writing down the ramblings of my mind.

ECW - Guys like CM Punk and Samoa Joe could be absolutely brilliant as the next big things in a toned down ECW, I'd still have the likes of Sandman/Dreamer/Sabu around, while guys like Rhino, Tazz, Dudleys and RVD would have all moved on. As I said earlier I think financially ECW should have some difficulties at the start of the game, but not so bad that it's impossible for the player to save them, ECW could potentially, if included, be an even more enjoyable game than running WCW.

 

Personally I'd avoid including TNA and ROH in the mod, but as much as I like the idea, I couldn't see Jarrett ending up in ECW, surely if WCW and the WWF where not available to him, he'd start up his own promotion/his dad would, rather than go to ECW.

[Bigpapa42]

Keeping playability in mind...

 

WWF - I would also have them as the #1, a bit ahead of WCW. I would give them an older main event scene with some younger talent in the midcard. This isn't too far from reality in the 2002-2003 period. Since the AI isn't fantastic at building new stars when running Sports Entertainment promotions, it makes them somewhat vulnerable if you are running WCW or ECW. At the same time, rebuilding the main event scene would be fun if you were running the WWF.

 

WCW - built around more young stars than the WWF. The fun would be getting the stars who aren't quite there yet to that level and trying to take down the WWF.

 

ECW - while making them ROH Version 2.0 wouldn't be the intent, giving them some of the key talent that did so well for ROH would certainly make them fun to run.

 

Personally I'd avoid including TNA and ROH in the mod, but as much as I like the idea, I couldn't see Jarrett ending up in ECW, surely if WCW and the WWF where not available to him, he'd start up his own promotion/his dad would, rather than go to ECW.

 

Jarrett in ECW seems unlikely... which is exactly why I like it. Don't get me wrong - I'm not married to the idea. But in trying to come up with a hot storyline for ECW, I think it would work. Jarrett comes in as the "big league star" who is against most of what ECW stands for, intent on keeping down the young stars. Depending on when JJ left WCW, he probably isn't a former world champion, but he's had runs in both big promotions and he's got ties to the territorial era. There are a number of others wrestlers who could work in the role, but few who would have no other options in the US, can talk, and work a decent match. Someone like Steiner would work for everything but decent matches.

 

Would the Jarrett's still have motivation to start something up? Maybe. But there was a notable gap in the market when they started TNA. With both WCW and ECW still around, there is no gap at all. There is some talent out there, sure, but with two large promotions and one medium (cult) one in the US, its tougher to argue there is need. Especially if WCW has a bit more of a performance-bias than the WWF.

[juggaloninjalee]

This is probably what I would actually want in 2003 if both survived based on some butterfly effect of a few cruiserweights getting what they earned in WCW.

 

WWE

They did not regain the #1 position in the Monday Night Wars but it was more intense than ever before. WWE may be more over worldwide than any other company and more prestigious. Global company but only about 80 over in the USA. Vince and Shane have both become pretty frequent in ring competitors mixing it up with Austin, Rock, HHH, Mick Foley, and Undertaker at times.

 

The rosters core wrestlers are Austin, Rock, Mr. Perfect, Kane, Undertaker, HHH, X-Pac, Ric Flair, Angle, Paul Wight (needs developement may get released), Mike Awesome, New Age Outlaws, Edge & Christian, Dudley Boys, Hardy Boys, Dean Malenko, Gangrel, Tazz, Funaki, Taka Michinoku, Rikishi, 2 Cool, Johnny Stamboli, Big Vito, Hugh Morrus, Bob Holly, and Perry Saturn.

 

Their key development guys are... Leviathon, Mark Henry, Rob Conway, Sylvan Grenier, Rene Dupree, Teddy Hart, TJ Wilson, DH Smith, Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, and Randy Orton.

 

Commentary Team: Jerry Lawler, Jim Ross, and Jonathan Coachman

 

WCW

WCW hasn't quite reached the global heights of the WWE but they are the #1 promotion in America and Canada. National company but about 86 over in the USA.

 

Their core wrestlers are Chris Jericho, Goldberg, Hollywood Hogan, Sting, Lance Storm, DDP, Kanyon, Vampiro, Bret Hart, British Bulldog, Jim Neidhart, RVD & Sabu (tag champions), Harlem Heat, 3 Count, Chris Candido, Shane Douglas, Buff Bagwell (forced to work harder to become good), Scott Steiner, Alex Wright as Berlyn, the Wall, Americas Most Wanted, Mexicos Most Wanted, Eddie Guerrero, Chavo Guerrero, Great Muta, Billy Kidman, Jimmy Yang, Sean O'Haire, Mark Jindrak, Mike Sanders, Norman Smiley, Fit Finlay, and Christopher Daniels.

 

WCWs key developement guys are... Adam Pearce, Phil Shatter, Air Paris, Jamie Noble, Kid Romeo, Kaz Hayashi, Bob Sapp, Matt Cross, and Josh Prohibition.

 

Commentary Team: Tony Schiavone, Tom Hudson, and Eric Bischoff

 

ECW

Really struggled while trying to grow into a true national power and live up to the expectations of the fan base. Nothing more than a cult size fed that have a core group of guys who are loyal to Paul Heyman.

 

Their core wrestlers are Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, Steve Corino, Jack Victory, CW Anderson, D'Lo Brown, the Headbangers, Legion of Doom, CM Punk, Colt Cabana, Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli, Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe, Austin Aries, Rhino, Masato Tanaka, Mitsuharu Misawa, Bam Bam Bigelow, the Messiah, Supreme, El Generico, Super Crazy, Juventud Guerrera, Nosawa, and Nicho El Millionairo.

 

Commentary Team: Joey Styles, and Joel Gertner

 

TNA

 

Jeff and Jerry should still open NWA TNA in Tennessee. The biggest promotions are in the North East and South East. The Midwest could use a cult size wrestling promotion.

 

Their core wrestlers are Jeff Jarrett, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Konnan, Sid Vicious, Crash Holly, Albert, Randy Savage, Raven, Ron Killings, Julio Dinero, Bobby Roode, Chris Sabin, A1, Petey Williams, Alex Shelley, Abyss, Eric Young, Devon Storm, David Flair, Vince Russo, Scott D'Amore, 2 Tuff Tony, Stevie Richards, Bull Buchanan, Kurrgan, Cyrus, Reno, Elix Skipper, Low Ki, Kazarian, AJ Styles, Orlando Jordan, and Justin Credible

 

Commentary Team: Mike Tenay, and Don West

 

Other Notes

 

Rey Mysterio went back to Mexico for a bit after WCW forced him to drop his mask in a pretty meaningless feud.

Ultimo Dragon opened Toryumon.

La Parka returned to Mexico.

Lash Leroux is working in Japan.

John Cena, Antonio Banks, the Miz, and Tomko are in UPW.

[Markw]

This is probably what I would actually want in 2003 if both survived based on some butterfly effect of a few cruiserweights getting what they earned in WCW.

 

WWE

 

Vince and Shane have both become pretty frequent in ring.

 

Mr. Perfect, Ric Flair, Paul Wight (needs developement may get released), Mike Awesome, Dean Malenko, Johnny Stamboli, Big Vito, Hugh Morrus and Perry Saturn.

 

Wouldn't want to see Vince working too many matches, and probably wouldn't want Shane to either. I don't see why many/all of those workers I've selected would be in the WWF. Apart from Wight but I'd question why he needs extra development, surely there is no way they'd release someone with his SQ/Menace and Popularity with a competitor like WCW on their doorstep?

 

Their key development guys are... Teddy Hart, TJ Wilson, DH Smith.

 

I know all three did work for the WWF before this point in some form but, surely if a WCW which pushed talented youngsters was an option, with Bret in the promotion, they'd have avoided the WWF, with their relatives in WCW, while the WWF is run by Vince, responsible for the Screwjob and to some extent Owen Hart's death.

 

WCW

 

Their core wrestlers are RVD & Sabu (tag champions)

 

Wouldn't want to see RVD and Sabu as Champs, would have thought that RVD would be getting a pretty decent push on his own if they are trying to back younger talented workers.

 

WCWs key developement guys are... Jamie Noble, Kaz Hayashi, Bob Sapp.

 

Still in development...? (Could apply to some of the others as well actually.

 

TNA

 

Jeff and Jerry should still open NWA TNA in Tennessee. The biggest promotions are in the North East and South East. The Midwest could use a cult size wrestling promotion.

 

Their core wrestlers are Jeff Jarrett, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Konnan, Sid Vicious, Crash Holly, Albert, Randy Savage, Raven, Ron Killings, Julio Dinero, Bobby Roode, Chris Sabin, A1, Petey Williams, Alex Shelley, Abyss, Eric Young, Devon Storm, David Flair, Vince Russo, Scott D'Amore, 2 Tuff Tony, Stevie Richards, Bull Buchanan, Kurrgan, Cyrus, Reno, Elix Skipper, Low Ki, Kazarian, AJ Styles, Orlando Jordan, and Justin Credible

 

Commentary Team: Mike Tenay, and Don West

 

Don't really want TNA included, but surely a lot of the guys you've listed would be working elsewhere, Nash and Hall (One of the big two), Konnan (WCW), Sid Vicious (One of the big two), Randy Savage (WCW), Raven (If not WCW/WWF then certainly ECW), AJ Styles (WCW!), Justin Credible (ECW), Mike Tenay (WCW).

[Warhawk8492]

I am considering a 2003 start time for my mod.

[juggaloninjalee]

Wouldn't want to see Vince working too many matches, and probably wouldn't want Shane to either. I don't see why many/all of those workers I've selected would be in the WWF. Apart from Wight but I'd question why he needs extra development, surely there is no way they'd release someone with his SQ/Menace and Popularity with a competitor like WCW on their doorstep?

 

Big Show was sent down for developement because they didn't think he could work a match. Plus his conditioning was very bad at this time IRL. That is kind of a reflection of what really happened.

 

 

 

I know all three did work for the WWF before this point in some form but, surely if a WCW which pushed talented youngsters was an option, with Bret in the promotion, they'd have avoided the WWF, with their relatives in WCW, while the WWF is run by Vince, responsible for the Screwjob and to some extent Owen Hart's death.

 

Listen to the art of wrestling podcast with Colt Cabana that was just put up today. Tyson Kidd said they still preferred WWF over WCW.

 

 

 

Wouldn't want to see RVD and Sabu as Champs, would have thought that RVD would be getting a pretty decent push on his own if they are trying to back younger talented workers.

 

I am fine with your opinion. I just can easily see a bottle neck of singles wrestlers in WCW and personally I enjoy a good tag division.

 

 

 

Don't really want TNA included, but surely a lot of the guys you've listed would be working elsewhere, Nash and Hall (One of the big two), Konnan (WCW), Sid Vicious (One of the big two), Randy Savage (WCW), Raven (If not WCW/WWF then certainly ECW), AJ Styles (WCW!), Justin Credible (ECW), Mike Tenay (WCW).

 

Again I just don't want over crowded rosters with all of these name guys. I want some fresh guys on the rosters too and in order for that to make sense I think TNA would be necessary. If Jeff Jarrett left WCW he and his father would have opened an NWA affiliate of some sort. Jerry has done it multiple times. Jeff would really have nowhere else to go.

[HEEL]

I actually really like this idea, perhaps so that everyone's happy you can say that ECW didn't tone the product down or not that much, and because of this as we start the game are in the shit financially, which allows anyone playing as ECW a chance to save them, or anyone playing as the WWE or WCW to crush them and have an 'Invasion'.

 

If the mod starts in January an option is to have ECW in a very poor state financially, then have ROH set to open in the middle if the year.

[Truth]

<p>WWF</p><p>

I like the idea of having WWF retain the WWF name. The fact was Vince had an agreement with the World Wildlife Fund, and it could be explained by Vince sticking to the agreement rather than ignoring it until the inevitable law suit. </p><p> </p><p>

They should definately be the hot product. I suggest that with WCW chasing, and without the influx of all the WCW and ECW guys in 2001, Vince probably would have been able to stay more focused. I also suspect that with a strong WCW, the XFL thing probably wouldn't have happened.</p><p> </p><p>

I would suggest that there is no way Nash, Hall and Hogan would end up in TNA. Nash & Hall I could see making a return to WWF and joining the McMahon-Helmsley group. Hogan would likely have returned to WWF in 2001 with Vince seeing the potential for a nostalgic run.</p><p> </p><p>

There is one thing, with it being a fantasy, I would suggest the following inclusion based around Owen Hart. It was known that at the time of his death Owen was very unhappy with the WWF. He was promised Bret's spot in the aftermath of Montreal, but Shawn and HHH shut him down until he finds himself as the Blue Blazer. Bret also says that if Owen had talked to him about the skit, he would have talked Owen out of it, so have that happen. Bret talks Owen out of the stunt, and Owen refuses to Vince, and argues with Vince about the promises made to him concerning his push, leading to him being released, leading to the inevitable signing by WCW.</p><p> </p><p>

WCW</p><p>

In WCW, you need a couple of things to change. I like the idea that the first small change is Sting winning clean in Starrccade 97, leading to a subsequent demolition of nWo by an alliance of Sting, Bret and the Horsemen. At some point in early 1998, you need a change of leadership in WCW. A logical one would be for Bischoff to get moved to the side, to be made the VP of business, with someone else being VP of Talent (Johnny Ace sounds likely) and a third person as VP of Creative (Maybe Cornette, who by 1998 was on the outs in WWE creative, but had yet to go to OVW), with all three answering to the same person. This would lead to a loss of influence for the old guard, leading to a push for the younger guys. Nash, Hall and Hogan, and possibly Flair eventually leave for WWF. </p><p> </p><p>

However, at a certain point, WCW needs to have a change in ownership. There is no way that Jamie kelner was going to be interested in running a wrestling promotion. However, with this WCW not bleeding money and delivering solid ratings, it is possible that he would be ok with selling the promotion to someone else who would continue to deliver good TV ratings for an inexpensive price, along with the PPV income. Cuban would also be getting a vast tape library he could use to fill programming time on HDNet, while TNT/TBS continue to air Nitro and Thunder.</p><p> </p><p>

ECW</p><p>

I would have ECW be in some trouble. Set it up that they loose their TNN TV deal along with their top stars. Paul puts the company into hiatus. At this time, he was known to have approached a number of people with a view to investing, including Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins. Set it up that he relaunches ECW in late 2001 having aquired investment with a new look (use the WWE ECW logo for this) and a fresh approach to being extreme and edgy. Paul was smart enough to be aware that the existing ECW approach was outdated, having had it's identity stolen by WWF and it's talent stolen by WCW. A relauch with the few old guard (Dreamer, Sandman, etc) along with Danielson, Punk, Joe, Briscoes, AJ, etc. would make an exciting prospect. Size wise, I would see ECW having fallen slightly, being at high Regional at the time of the game.</p><p> </p><p>

TNA</p><p>

TNA is the perfect promotion to launch in the aftermath of a workrate push in WCW and a youth movement in ECW. YOu could set up TNA as a real works USPW run by the Jarretts, Russo and Schiavone. Give it the TV deal with TNN, with TNN being more in favour of a family friendly, southern based promotion over the racy ECW, and fill the roster with guys who are too old for WWF, WCW and ECW, but can use their name value to appeal to a younger audience that WWF alienates with it's attitude approach.</p>

[juggaloninjalee]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Truth" data-cite="Truth" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33520" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>WWF<p> I like the idea of having WWF retain the WWF name. The fact was Vince had an agreement with the World Wildlife Fund, and it could be explained by Vince sticking to the agreement rather than ignoring it until the inevitable law suit. </p><p> </p><p> They should definately be the hot product. I suggest that with WCW chasing, and without the influx of all the WCW and ECW guys in 2001, Vince probably would have been able to stay more focused. I also suspect that with a strong WCW, the XFL thing probably wouldn't have happened.</p><p> </p><p> I would suggest that there is no way Nash, Hall and Hogan would end up in TNA. Nash & Hall I could see making a return to WWF and joining the McMahon-Helmsley group. Hogan would likely have returned to WWF in 2001 with Vince seeing the potential for a nostalgic run.</p><p> </p><p> There is one thing, with it being a fantasy, I would suggest the following inclusion based around Owen Hart. It was known that at the time of his death Owen was very unhappy with the WWF. He was promised Bret's spot in the aftermath of Montreal, but Shawn and HHH shut him down until he finds himself as the Blue Blazer. Bret also says that if Owen had talked to him about the skit, he would have talked Owen out of it, so have that happen. Bret talks Owen out of the stunt, and Owen refuses to Vince, and argues with Vince about the promises made to him concerning his push, leading to him being released, leading to the inevitable signing by WCW.</p><p> </p><p> WCW</p><p> In WCW, you need a couple of things to change. I like the idea that the first small change is Sting winning clean in Starrccade 97, leading to a subsequent demolition of nWo by an alliance of Sting, Bret and the Horsemen. At some point in early 1998, you need a change of leadership in WCW. A logical one would be for Bischoff to get moved to the side, to be made the VP of business, with someone else being VP of Talent (Johnny Ace sounds likely) and a third person as VP of Creative (Maybe Cornette, who by 1998 was on the outs in WWE creative, but had yet to go to OVW), with all three answering to the same person. This would lead to a loss of influence for the old guard, leading to a push for the younger guys. Nash, Hall and Hogan, and possibly Flair eventually leave for WWF. </p><p> </p><p> However, at a certain point, WCW needs to have a change in ownership. There is no way that Jamie kelner was going to be interested in running a wrestling promotion. However, with this WCW not bleeding money and delivering solid ratings, it is possible that he would be ok with selling the promotion to someone else who would continue to deliver good TV ratings for an inexpensive price, along with the PPV income. Cuban would also be getting a vast tape library he could use to fill programming time on HDNet, while TNT/TBS continue to air Nitro and Thunder.</p><p> </p><p> ECW</p><p> I would have ECW be in some trouble. Set it up that they loose their TNN TV deal along with their top stars. Paul puts the company into hiatus. At this time, he was known to have approached a number of people with a view to investing, including Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins. Set it up that he relaunches ECW in late 2001 having aquired investment with a new look (use the WWE ECW logo for this) and a fresh approach to being extreme and edgy. Paul was smart enough to be aware that the existing ECW approach was outdated, having had it's identity stolen by WWF and it's talent stolen by WCW. A relauch with the few old guard (Dreamer, Sandman, etc) along with Danielson, Punk, Joe, Briscoes, AJ, etc. would make an exciting prospect. Size wise, I would see ECW having fallen slightly, being at high Regional at the time of the game.</p><p> </p><p> TNA</p><p> TNA is the perfect promotion to launch in the aftermath of a workrate push in WCW and a youth movement in ECW. YOu could set up TNA as a real works USPW run by the Jarretts, Russo and Schiavone. Give it the TV deal with TNN, with TNN being more in favour of a family friendly, southern based promotion over the racy ECW, and fill the roster with guys who are too old for WWF, WCW and ECW, but can use their name value to appeal to a younger audience that WWF alienates with it's attitude approach.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I like this laid out scenario too. This would allow for Evolution to be born since Flair could be in the WWF. Hogan, Hall, and Nash could come in as a trio much like they did... not known as the nWo though.</p><p> </p><p> Like the idea that Own may be the US champ or in that race over in WCW while Bret is contending for the World title before retiring probably.</p><p> </p><p> Billy Corgan owning half of ECW would be fantastic! It would make a lot of sense to me.</p><p> </p><p> Still like the idea of NWA:TNA being born from the Jarretts.</p>

[Mkelm44]

<p>Just going to throw in my $0.02...</p><p> </p><p>

Part of this depends on when you decide to have the change occur. I figure not only does Jericho not jump but I also am assuming that the Benoit never abandons the belt and the Radicalz don't jump with him. Also, for the record I think you argue that anyone that WWF developed stayed in their development system. Guys like Cena (the Prototype), Batista (Leviathan), Lesnar, Conway, Dinsmore, Haas, Benjamin, etc were in the system before the WCW closing, so it makes sense for them to stay there. Lastly, I'm assuming ECW, because of its financial difficulties was forced to close about on schedule.</p><p> </p><p>

WCW has a main event scene with Jericho, Benoit, Sting, Guerrero, Regal and Booker as well as some native talent like Kanyon and Storm in the upper midcard. In addition to their main event, WCW has built up the cruiserweight into a very upper-midcard belt, similar to the Japanese Light Heavyweight crowns. Guys like Mysterio, Ultimo Dragon, Helms, Jamie Knoble, Dean Malenko, and maybe RVD fight over it and it is relatively equal to the US title. Guys like Muta and Liger are shared with Japan and come over for "Worlds Collide" style events. </p><p> </p><p>

WWF has a main event scene with Taker, Rock, Austin, Angle, HHH, Foley, and a couple of ex-WCW guys- figure Steiner and DDP jump to round out the Main Event. The upper midcard has guys like Big Show and Kane as well as the lion share of ex-ECW talent. Dreamer, Tazz, Rhino and Raven are all the solid midcard. But to counter the WCW cruiser division, WWF has developed an almost main event level tag division (similar to real life at the time, just a bit better) which in addition to the Hardyz, Dudleyz, E & C, APA, we see the Road Warriors join up as well as some occaisional tag teams such as the Steiners, Brothers of Destruction all in the mix.</p><p> </p><p>

NWA is a cult level faction with a lot of good talen that is having its resurgence with NWA-TNA, but Jeff Jarrett brings over a few of his displaced WCW main eventers. JJ is joined in the main event by Goldberg and Ric Flair. Dusty Rhodes has come over and brought Dustin as the centerpiece of a very bare midcard. Older talent gravitates here, with teams like the Rock N Roll Express wrestling as well as some of the less talented ECW guys- the Devon Storms and Hardcore Chair Swinging Freaks should appear. </p><p> </p><p>

As for the rest of the world... I see guys like Hall and Justice gone to Japan to get bigger dollars and essentially being freelancers- I think that WWF and WCW would probably be averse to them by this point. Many of the names that were early TNA are split amongst WWF/WCW/TNA. I would envision Styles in WCW as he was a developmental talent, Daniels in WWF because of his past association (the Conquistadors Rule!!!),Low Ki in TNA. For the guys in TNA I would imagine you'd have to set some sort of loyalty in place to keep them from being snatched immediately.</p><p> </p><p>

This has a lot of potential for competition and creativity. In order to keep the game from being a slog, I would suggest that almost every main eventer would have his contract set to expire somewhere between 6-18 months and lots of Loyalty set up. (Angle/Rock loyal to WWF, Sting/Booker loyal to WCW, etc.)</p>

[Markw]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mkelm44" data-cite="Mkelm44" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="33520" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just going to throw in my $0.02...<p> </p><p> Part of this depends on when you decide to have the change occur. I figure not only does Jericho not jump but I also am assuming that the Benoit never abandons the belt and the Radicalz don't jump with him. Also, for the record I think you argue that anyone that WWF developed stayed in their development system. Guys like Cena (the Prototype), Batista (Leviathan), Lesnar, Conway, Dinsmore, Haas, Benjamin, etc were in the system before the WCW closing, so it makes sense for them to stay there. Lastly,<strong> I'm assuming ECW, because of its financial difficulties was forced to close about on schedule.</strong></p><p> </p><p> WCW has a main event scene with Jericho, Benoit, Sting, Guerrero, Regal and Booker as well as some native talent like Kanyon and Storm in the upper midcard. In addition to their main event, WCW has built up the cruiserweight into a very upper-midcard belt, similar to the Japanese Light Heavyweight crowns. Guys like Mysterio, Ultimo Dragon, Helms, Jamie Knoble, Dean Malenko, and maybe RVD fight over it and it is relatively equal to the US title. Guys like Muta and Liger are shared with Japan and come over for "Worlds Collide" style events. </p><p> </p><p> WWF has a main event scene with Taker, Rock, Austin, Angle, HHH, Foley, and a couple of ex-WCW guys- <strong>figure Steiner and DDP jump to round out the Main Event.</strong> The upper midcard has guys like Big Show and Kane as well as the lion share of ex-ECW talent. Dreamer, Tazz, Rhino and <strong>Raven </strong>are all the solid midcard. But to counter the WCW cruiser division, WWF has developed an almost main event level tag division (similar to real life at the time, just a bit better) which in addition to the Hardyz, Dudleyz, E & C, APA, we see the Road Warriors join up as well as some occaisional tag teams such as the <strong>Steiners</strong>, Brothers of Destruction all in the mix.</p><p> </p><p> NWA is a cult level faction with a lot of good talen that is having its resurgence with NWA-TNA, but Jeff Jarrett brings over a few of his displaced WCW main eventers. JJ is joined in the main event by <strong>Goldberg and Ric Flair</strong>. Dusty Rhodes has come over and brought Dustin as the centerpiece of a very bare midcard. Older talent gravitates here, with teams like the Rock N Roll Express wrestling as well as some of the less talented ECW guys- the Devon Storms and Hardcore Chair Swinging Freaks should appear. </p><p> </p><p> As for the rest of the world... I see guys like Hall and Justice gone to Japan to get bigger dollars and essentially being freelancers- I think that WWF and WCW would probably be averse to them by this point. Many of the names that were early TNA are split amongst WWF/WCW/TNA. I would envision Styles in WCW as he was a developmental talent, <strong>Daniels in WWF </strong>because of his past association (the Conquistadors Rule!!!),Low Ki in TNA. For the guys in TNA I would imagine you'd have to set some sort of loyalty in place to keep them from being snatched immediately.</p><p> </p><p> This has a lot of potential for competition and creativity. In order to keep the game from being a slog, <strong>I would suggest that almost every main eventer would have his contract set to expire somewhere between 6-18 months</strong> and lots of Loyalty set up. (Angle/Rock loyal to WWF, Sting/Booker loyal to WCW, etc.)</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The sections in bold I disagree with personally, as I've said earlier I'd love to ECW still around even if in a poor financial position just because it's something different to book from around this time frame, I can download a 02/03 mod and play as TNA whenever I want, it would be nice to be able to book ECW with workers from this time period. I can't see the Steiners to some extent and certainly can't see DDP making the move, he and Bischoff were good friends werent they?</p><p> </p><p> Goldberg and Flair are way to popular to be in TNA, they'd both still be in WCW but if they wheren't McMahon would have gone in for them, while I'd expect Raven to be in WCW or ECW. Daniels had a contract with WCW when it closed so I would suggest he'd be best placed in the Cruserweight division. I'd quite like contracts to be set as random so that you don't get a massive number of contracts running out at the same time and each game is different, as you'd get in the C-Verse.</p>

[WCW Mark]

I agree with some of the earlier posts that say that you need to pinpoint the moment that the mod diverges from reality and plot forward from their until you get to the point where your mod starts. I also think the point where WCW dropped the ball was Starrcade 1997 and you should alter the outcome to give Sting the clean win.

 

From there you could progress as follows.

 

With a clean Sting win the NWO powerbase crumbles. This leads to Nash and Hall feuding with Hogan and Savage over the NWO name, the other members of the NWO are involved in the periphery but overall this feud is about 4 people and is a way of ending the NWO storyline. Hogan aware that his powerbase is diminishing gives notice and leaves WCW.

 

Meanwhile Sting defends against Flair in a face v face contest and then Luger who turns on his old friend.

 

Meanwhile the debuting Bret Hart creates the Hart Foundation 2K, featuring starts like Benoit, Jericho and any other young up and comers who have a link to the dungeon. They have a starmaking feud with the LWO led by Eddy G and Konan. When this feud finishes Bret goes after Sting and takes the title at Starrcade 1998. Benoit turns on Bret soon after and you get Bret + some of the old Hart foundation fighting Benoit and the Hart Foundation 2K.

 

Meanwhile as ECW struggle financially they get bought out by ZUFFA (who go into pro-wrestling instead of MMA due to the coninuing popularity of wrestling). This gives new financial clout and a new direction to ECW who start to push a lot of promising youngsters (remember ECW wasn't just about hardcore wrestling but also featured Benoit, Eddie, Malenko, Jericho, Rey Mysterio etc). Haymen is smart enough to move with the times and he realises the Hardcore style has a limited shelf life. In addition, with the links to Zuffa they manage to bring in Kurt Angle who originally rejected ECW in 1996 after seeing the Raven/Sandman Crucifixation angle. The new ECW sees a blend of Hardcore and Fast paced modern wrestling. Several of the less athletic originals leave as Heyman does what he does best and churns the roster.

 

Jarrett only started TNA because WCW folded so I would leave him at WCW. However you have Hogan floating around without a contract and I would start TNA with him. This would most definitely not be a work rate related promotion with Hogan bringing in a lot of his old buddies as well as some of the older talent who have left ECW.

 

Finally WWF continues to be booked by Vince McMahon and Vince Russo (with WCW maintaining their momentum they bother signing Russo away). They have ridden the popularity of The Rock, Steve Austin and Mick Foley well but Austin and Foley are now retired as an active competitors and The Rock is off in Hollywood and only makes occasional appearances. Vince breaks the bank to lure back Nash and Hall but Halls substance abuse problems and Nash's deterorating physical condition mean they are unable to provide the upswing in ratings WWF need. WWF need to create new stars and have to do so without a lot of the wrestlers who saw them through the early 2000's in real life (Angle, Benoit, Eddy, Jericho etc). Their tag division is strong and cold be the breeding ground for the stars of tomorrow.

 

This gives you 4 promotions, all offering something unique to whoever wants to play them. Afraid there is no ROH as they were only created due to RF Video losing the rights to the ECW tape distribution when they folded.

 

So start of 2002 the top of the rosters would look something like this.

 

WCW

 

About even on workrate/popularity with a mixture of old and new school wrestlers, close 2nd to WWF in popularity but with better momentum.

 

Bret Hart

Sting

Rick Flair

Goldberg

Chris Benoit

Eddy G

Lance Storm

Booker T

Konan

Jeff Jarrett

DDP

 

WWF

 

Slightly more based on popularity than work rate, highly entertainment based. Still number 1 in the world but with low momentum.

 

HHH

Nash

Hall

Michaels - Not an active wrestler at this point, he doesn't return from injury until mid 2002. However when he does there is a lot that can be done with him either with or against the Clique.

Undertaker

Kane

Hardyz

Edge and Christian

APA

New Age Outlaws

Dudleys

The Rock - Currently on Hiatus

Austin - Non Wrestler

Foley - Non Wrestler

Lesnar (just about to debut)

William Regal

Mike Awsome (Vince has hired him from ECW and this time, due to lack of roster depth is pushing him, Vince loves a big man)

 

 

ECW

 

RVD

Tazz

Kurt Angle

Ken Shamrock (without ZUFFA's investment UFC is all but done)

Tommy Dreamer

Sabu

Rampage Jackson (he joins ECW instead of Pride, he has good charisma and could be a potential star)

Jerry Lynn

Steve Corino

AJ Styles (not a star yet but one to watch)

Chris Daniels

Samoa Joe (again not a star yet but one to watch)

 

TNA

 

Hogan

Savage

The Giant (Hogan is good friends with him and lured him away from WCW)

Nasty Boys

Jimmy Hart

Sandman

Raven

Curt Hennig

Luger

 

You have plenty of undercard/midcard wrestlers who you can either keep at their actual real life promotions or move around to fill out rosters as needed. People like Val Venis, God Father, Stevie Richards, Finlay etc. Probbly best to keep as many of them at their actual promotions as possible just to make it easier to keep a track of who is where.

 

Hope this gives you some ideas, like I say the backstory is the most important thing for any alternate reality mod and you need to identify the trigger point, it doesn't have to be big (butterfly wings and hurricanes and all that) as long as you can trace a path from the point to the start of the mod. Hogan clean jobbing to Sting and quitting is the flashpoint here but you can choose something else. I'll definitely look out for this mod though.