The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Makhai]

On 10/4/2022 at 5:54 PM, The Blonde Bomber said:

I don’t get it. I think Punk’s run for the year he was there was some of the best tv AEW did especially the MJF feud which was the best feud in wrestling in years.

Neither do I, in his only full year; had feud of the year, match of the year, and storyline of the year. He got both MJF and Wardlow over like rover, and he helped out Eddie Kingston which should have elevated Eddie into the main event. He's also a feminist. So.... yeah, no. 

[djskeemask]

16 minutes ago, Makhai said:

Neither do I, in his only full year; had feud of the year, match of the year, and storyline of the year. He got both MJF and Wardlow over like rover, and he helped out Eddie Kingston which should have elevated Eddie into the main event. He's also a feminist. So.... yeah, no. 

As much as I want to like Kingston, I just can't get into him.

[Makhai]

13 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

"Fire Sammy" was trending on Twitter after the show. In less than a year, he went from beloved babyface to X-Pac heat.

This was always going to happen if you've followed him. He has a reputation of being pretty insufferable, arrogant, low-IQ. The outlier was The Inner Circle run, where he kept his mouth shut, and worked. 

Do not like at all that TK let him go out their and work off his backstage X-PAC heat, real danger we've got a toxic version of Vickie Guerrero for the modern age. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Makhai

[The Blonde Bomber]

34 minutes ago, djskeemask said:

As much as I want to like Kingston, I just can't get into him.

In his feud with Punk he was the IT FACTOR, he got people to cheer him over Punk two months after his return. Then Jericho killed him like has done everything he touches. Punk was the opposite of Jericho interestingly. Punk would leave guys better off then where they were while Jericho would destroy everyone to keep himself on top.

[Dawn]

13 hours ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

That’s easy to do when you cheat on the fiancé you just proposed to.

Wait...what?

[d12345]

14 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

"Fire Sammy" was trending on Twitter after the show. In less than a year, he went from beloved babyface to X-Pac heat.

People's reactions were, as usual, premature. After hearing the full details, it really is Andrade being a full blockhead here. He confronts Sammy, then throws punches at Sammy, and Sammy does not fight back because he doesn't want to ruin the main event. If an act is in the main event in any promotion and you try to fight them before the show, you're threatening the promoter's money. Doesn't matter what sly comment Sammy may have made in the past, Andrade was ridiculously unprofessional.

[The Blonde Bomber]

1 hour ago, Dawn said:

Wait...what?

Sammy proposed to his long time girlfriend on tv last September I believe then by December it comes out he’s with Tay Conti. 

[The Swanton825]

2 hours ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

In his feud with Punk he was the IT FACTOR, he got people to cheer him over Punk two months after his return. Then Jericho killed him like has done everything he touches. Punk was the opposite of Jericho interestingly. Punk would leave guys better off then where they were while Jericho would destroy everyone to keep himself on top.

I'm glad someone else sees the same thing with Jericho. He's a shell of his former self (no surprise there, given his age) who is ironically doing the same thing the WCW main eventers did to him back in the day.

 

1 hour ago, d12345 said:

People's reactions were, as usual, premature. After hearing the full details, it really is Andrade being a full blockhead here. He confronts Sammy, then throws punches at Sammy, and Sammy does not fight back because he doesn't want to ruin the main event. If an act is in the main event in any promotion and you try to fight them before the show, you're threatening the promoter's money. Doesn't matter what sly comment Sammy may have made in the past, Andrade was ridiculously unprofessional.

Says a lot about someone's reputation though when people don't even blink at the suggestion that they were the cause of the fight before details get out. Andrade seems to want out so maybe he tried picking a fight with the problem child in the hopes

[Makhai]

2 hours ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

In his feud with Punk he was the IT FACTOR, he got people to cheer him over Punk two months after his return. Then Jericho killed him like has done everything he touches. Punk was the opposite of Jericho interestingly. Punk would leave guys better off then where they were while Jericho would destroy everyone to keep himself on top.

Well, lets not rewrite history, Jericho has left everybody better than he found them, probably the only people who can say they were worse off is Orange Cassidy. But that was just the gimmick getting long in the tooth and Cassidy getting shuffled back into the toybox.

He may not elevate people to the moon, but Sammy, Ortiz and Santana and all of the JAS are higher up than they were. He's deteriorated as an in-ring worker, but he's still a smart guy with a good nose for the business. And he still has something to offer AEW, in stability, if nothing else. 

[d12345]

6 minutes ago, James The Animator said:

“Sammy, Ortiz and Santana and all of the JAS are higher up than they were.”

Santana hasn’t been on TV in months! Ortiz is in midcard limbo, Hager hasn’t moved or evolved, and Sammy hasn’t done much on that front either.

Santana Tore his ACL, which left Ortiz without much to do since he's not much of a singles draw at this point.

Quote

In his feud with Punk he was the IT FACTOR, he got people to cheer him over Punk two months after his return. Then Jericho killed him like has done everything he touches. Punk was the opposite of Jericho interestingly. Punk would leave guys better off then where they were while Jericho would destroy everyone to keep himself on top.

Yikes I don't know about this take. I think the most apples to apples comparison between Punk and Jericho's ability to help elevate guys from feuding with them would be Eddie Kingston. CM Punk absolutely tried to bury the guy while Jericho put him over clean. I'm not sure that Punk beating Darby, Hangman, Kingston, and Mox did much good for those guys.

[The Blonde Bomber]

1 hour ago, Makhai said:

Well, lets not rewrite history, Jericho has left everybody better than he found them, probably the only people who can say they were worse off is Orange Cassidy. But that was just the gimmick getting long in the tooth and Cassidy getting shuffled back into the toybox.

He may not elevate people to the moon, but Sammy, Ortiz and Santana and all of the JAS are higher up than they were. He's deteriorated as an in-ring worker, but he's still a smart guy with a good nose for the business. And he still has something to offer AEW, in stability, if nothing else. 

Lest us not forget the embarrassment that was Jericho v MJF. Luckily MJF got out of that dredge.

[The Blonde Bomber]

7 minutes ago, d12345 said:

Santana Tore his ACL, which left Ortiz without much to do since he's not much of a singles draw at this point.

Yikes I don't know about this take. I think the most apples to apples comparison between Punk and Jericho's ability to help elevate guys from feuding with them would be Eddie Kingston. CM Punk absolutely tried to bury the guy while Jericho put him over clean. I'm not sure that Punk beating Darby, Hangman, Kingston, and Mox did much good for those guys.

Look at where Kingston was prior to Punk vs Jericho 

[milamber]

- MJF vs YUTA was my MOTN. Interesting stuff with Max, The Firm & Regal.

- Lethal vs Darby was good. Big focus on ROH... TV deal locked in?

- Cage vs Wardlow (c) was great. Love Prince Nana.

- Ford, Deeb & Hayter vs Willow, Athena & Storm was great. I knew Saraya was cleared when Britt said she wasn't lol. Enjoying this Willow push.

- Acclaimed Every Wednesday Wrestling! Super fun segment.

- Skye Blue back on TV. Been a long time since TayJay wrestled.

- RUSH vs Hangman was good. Mox doing a fine job selling the PPV.

- Probably Jungle Boy's best promo.

- JAS vs Garcia & Danielson was good.

 

Great show but no 2nd women's match was inexcusable with the extra runtime. They had more backstage segments but why not have Nyla, Tay, Anna or Julia win a quick squash?

Edited October 6, 2022 by milamber

[djskeemask]

1 hour ago, James The Animator said:

“Sammy, Ortiz and Santana and all of the JAS are higher up than they were.”

Santana hasn’t been on TV in months! Ortiz is in midcard limbo, Hager hasn’t moved or evolved, and Sammy hasn’t done much on that front either.

Hager has evolved! He really likes that purple hat!!

[El Güro]

Rush and Page have to do a Bull Rope match, the Cowboy trying to catch the Bull. As long as Rush is motivated (and nobody hires is friends or father) he is so much fun.

Edited October 7, 2022 by El Güro

[Makhai]

6 hours ago, James The Animator said:

“Sammy, Ortiz and Santana and all of the JAS are higher up than they were.”

Santana hasn’t been on TV in months! Ortiz is in midcard limbo, Hager hasn’t moved or evolved, and Sammy hasn’t done much on that front either.

 

It was Jericho who took out Santana with the pipe, I missed that. Hager came in as a guy who was a jobber in WWE and was gotten over enough to have wrestled Moxley for the WORLD TITLE, and Sammy was literally a prospect guy when he joined, his babyface turn went very well. 

But lets be dishonest and count the booking after Jericho was moved on. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Makhai

[Makhai]

6 hours ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

Lest us not forget the embarrassment that was Jericho v MJF. Luckily MJF got out of that dredge.

At the time, Dinner Debonair was lapped up by all of you. And the feud was a net win for MJF, who went over in the end. MJF became a star off this. His ratings draw starts here. 

 

And I want to make clear that I would ask Jericho where his wife was on Jan. 6th to his face. I hate the fact you are putting me in a position to defend him. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Makhai

[Matt_Black]

Dinner Debonair was great, and I will fight everyone who says otherwise. The problem with the MJF/ Jericho feud, as is a problem with many AEW feuds in general, is that it just. Went. On. Too. LONG. It really SHOULD have ended with Blood & Guts, but then we got Stadium Stampede, and then the 5 Labors Of Jericho, and THEN the match at the PPV.

And despite the criticisms leveled at Jericho, I still say he's better for new talent than Matt Hardy, who really hasn't elevated anybody. I'm especially thinking of the Orange Cassidy feud.

[Makhai]

11 minutes ago, James The Animator said:

“Hager came in as a guy who was a jobber in WWE and was gotten over enough to have wrestled Moxley for the WORLD TITLE, and Sammy was literally a prospect guy when he joined, his babyface turn went very well. ”

Wow, I can’t even argue with these claims. I’m just completely gobsmacked. Jake Hager was OVER… and Sammy’s babyface turn went well?! I feel like I live in another dimension!

 

You're being intentionally dishonest, it's not even arguable that Sammy and Jake were both more over after their time with Jericho then they were when they started with him. Those are the layup cases. Santana and Ortiz are the ones you can make an argument were worse off, but only because of an ACL injury just before, or just after, the group disbanded; both were in the tag title picture prior.  

[djskeemask]

On a somewhat similar topic. I think AEW had and still has a great tag team division if compared to other companies. On a Grilling JR podcast, he talked about how he doesn't think Vince was into Tag Teams as much as building individual stars. I definitely agree with that. Besides the late 80's-early 90's, WWF/E has not had a strong tag division of 'teams'. I'm talking teams with matching or complimenting styles and matching gear. It seems Vince would sort of play the spaghetti game of throwing it against the wall and see what sticks. I mean, I get that eventually teams grow apart, but you have to plan for that and keep new ones waiting in the wings. Bret outgrew The Anvil. Dynamite Kid was not the best backstage presence and eventually had to be let go, giving The Bulldog a chance to go on to better things. Billy Gunn was obviously more talented than Bart. Anyway, too much WWF/E talk in the AEW thread.

Right now in AEW, you have The Acclaimed who make perfect comedy champs, but can still put on great matches. Swerve In Our Glory (who have been rumored to be splitting). Lucha Bros. FTR. 2Point0. Private Party. House of Black. One of the most underrated tag teams in The Butcher & The Blade. I love how all these teams have similar or complimentary styles and matching gear. Beyond talent, those are key elements in a star tag team.

[Self]

Chris Jericho absolutely made Sammy Guevara. There's an irony to Sammy tweeting about how other wrestlers are favour hires who should "be grateful", when he himself should consider himself the luckiest boy on earth that Jericho's first choices for a stable were unavailable. Being with Jericho put Sammy in an amazing position to develop and learn, when alone he could have been a Kip Sabian. Decently talented, but fading into the background through lack of creative. 

Hager? Nah. Jack Swagger was a regular midcard presence in WWE for years. More well known and interesting back then. 

I think Santana and Ortiz were hindered by the Jericho association. Slightly. They were lumped into multi-man stable wars when they could have been a strong tag team threat... but that isn't entirely on Jericho. To counter the above post by djskeemask, while AEW have always had an array of good tag teams, it's never felt like a strong division to me. No cohesion. No consistent booking. A midcard afterthought, booked as poorly as the Women's division, but with more flips. When the champions are rarely the best team, how important are the belts, really? So once Jericho was finished with Santana & Ortiz, there was nothing for them to do. And then they split. 

[Makhai]

10 minutes ago, Self said:

Chris Jericho absolutely made Sammy Guevara. There's an irony to Sammy tweeting about how other wrestlers are favour hires who should "be grateful", when he himself should consider himself the luckiest boy on earth that Jericho's first choices for a stable were unavailable. Being with Jericho put Sammy in an amazing position to develop and learn, when alone he could have been a Kip Sabian. Decently talented, but fading into the background through lack of creative. 

Hager? Nah. Jack Swagger was a regular midcard presence in WWE for years. More well known and interesting back then. 

I think Santana and Ortiz were hindered by the Jericho association. Slightly. They were lumped into multi-man stable wars when they could have been a strong tag team threat... but that isn't entirely on Jericho. To counter the above post by djskeemask, while AEW have always had an array of good tag teams, it's never felt like a strong division to me. No cohesion. No consistent booking. A midcard afterthought, booked as poorly as the Women's division, but with more flips. When the champions are rarely the best team, how important are the belts, really? So once Jericho was finished with Santana & Ortiz, there was nothing for them to do. And then they split. 

While there's no way in hell I agree with the Hager thought, I will agree with the Sammy-Kip comparison. Go watch their opening level match from pre-TV era when they both were just signed. Tell me those two aren't the same goobers with different accents. 

[The Blonde Bomber]

15 hours ago, Makhai said:

 

It was Jericho who took out Santana with the pipe, I missed that. Hager came in as a guy who was a jobber in WWE and was gotten over enough to have wrestled Moxley for the WORLD TITLE, and Sammy was literally a prospect guy when he joined, his babyface turn went very well. 

But lets be dishonest and count the booking after Jericho was moved on. 

Hager over 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 oh my god no no no. He is as over as poo on a shoe.

[d12345]

9 hours ago, Makhai said:

 

You're being intentionally dishonest, it's not even arguable that Sammy and Jake were both more over after their time with Jericho then they were when they started with him. Those are the layup cases. Santana and Ortiz are the ones you can make an argument were worse off, but only because of an ACL injury just before, or just after, the group disbanded; both were in the tag title picture prior.  

And to support your point even further I don't think anyone can put the blame on Santana not becoming a big star on Jericho. Santana had enough chances to shine, even more than Ortiz and Hager. He just never fully connected with the audience. He was an average promo who was inconsistent on the mic, which isn't going to let you be a top guy in AEW.

[The Swanton825]

16 hours ago, Makhai said:

At the time, Dinner Debonair was lapped up by all of you. And the feud was a net win for MJF, who went over in the end. MJF became a star off this. His ratings draw starts here. 

 

And I want to make clear that I would ask Jericho where his wife was on Jan. 6th to his face. I hate the fact you are putting me in a position to defend him. 

I would like to clarify that I didn't care for it. In fact, I frustrated one AEW-loving friend enough with my hatred of everything Jericho did that he put a moratorium on us talking about AEW. I will go to my grave insisting that MJF was ready for the main event without any sort of rub from Jericho and "needing" a WWE guy's approval only served to hurt his credibility as AEW's future centerpiece the similar to AJ and Joe jobbing out to every has-been in TNA.