The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Big Roguey]

To be fair, this is the first year where RevPro have made as big a deal (Going Copper Box etc) for the anniversary. Normally it's just the bog standard York Hall affair, it's definitely not their WrestleMania type show (saying that, no one over here has a show with that time of prestige). Moot has it right on why shows are popping up, they want to do a Mania weekend type feel except in a city with absolutely terrible public transport so we'll see how that goes. 😅

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

14 minutes ago, Big Roguey said:

To be fair, this is the first year where RevPro have made as big a deal (Going Copper Box etc) for the anniversary. Normally it's just the bog standard York Hall affair, it's definitely not their WrestleMania type show (saying that, no one over here has a show with that time of prestige). Moot has it right on why shows are popping up, they want to do a Mania weekend type feel except in a city with absolutely terrible public transport so we'll see how that goes. 😅

To be fair, Public Transport in England probably still leagues better than any American town where Wrestlemania was held.

I assume at least most English streets have sidewalks. Or at least, drivers who tolerate pedestrians.

It's a nightmare here in the states.

[milamber]

- The Hardys vs The Gunns was solid. Nice beatdown and brawl. "I'm a Collision guy" lol.
- JJ vs Briscoe (Concession Stand) was fun.
- BCC + Takeshita is an S Tier group but hopefully only temporary.
- JAS & Suzuki vs Fox, Andretti & Darius was good. Production missed the money shot.
- "Shut up, Schiavone!" lol. Cole & MJF teaming up! Tanahashi!
- More excited about the women's tournament. Looking forward to Athena vs Billie.
- Cassidy & Shibata vs Garcia & ZSJ was my MOTN.
- Another Callis/United Empire tease.
- Shame TK isn't booking freelancers like Emi, Mizunami or Suruga for FD. Even Riho or Shida would make more sense.
- Taya vs Statlander (c) was good.
- Kingston addresses his enemies and friends. Ishii! Coindrop... Rainmaker!

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

Battlebowl is one of those concepts not well received at the time but now the fans remember fondly. 

I hope AEW's version works well, though I question putting MJF and Adam Cole in that tag tournament. 

Good way to get the champion or the #1 Contender injured. 

[Matt_Black]

Was Battlebowl the one where they did actual random drawings instead of kayfabe random drawings, or am I thinking of something else?

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

19 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

Was Battlebowl the one where they did actual random drawings instead of kayfabe random drawings, or am I thinking of something else?

I think they were "worked" random drawings but I could be wrong.

Might be or have been a topic for the What Happened When or 83 Weeks Podcast. 

[milamber]

Rampage was fun. Douki got over with the crowd.

The Athena vs Kiera Street Fight is the best match so far this week.

Edited June 24, 2023 by milamber

[Jaysin]

Binging wrestling today and watching Rampage at the moment. Man, Royce Isaacs has really changed since his NWA days. He's friggin jacked. I didn't even recognize him. 

[Mootinie]

On 6/23/2023 at 12:09 PM, Matt_Black said:

Was Battlebowl the one where they did actual random drawings instead of kayfabe random drawings, or am I thinking of something else?

Yes I think you're thinking of Lethal Lottery. The Battlebowl was the battle royal they held after the tag matches to decide the overall winner.

I could be wrong but I think the first Lethal Lottery at Starrcade '91 was random drawings. That would at least account for how awful the show was. I think they rigged it for Starrcade '92 and Battlebowl '93. 

[Jaysin]

So someone not signed to WWE that has a history with Jericho

Dango- Would be funny, but not a star worth the mystery

Naito- This would be neat for me since Naito is one of the reasons I fell in love with New Japan

Lance Storm- For obvious reasons

Ultimo Dragon- Name dropped on Rampage and still going. One of my longtime favorites, so definitely okay with this one

Goldberg- The backstage stuff that's been talked about for years coming to head. 

If Goldberg does indeed sign with AEW, I hope it's only for this match and maybe one or two more. I'd rather him appear at all, but I'd at least give it a shot. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Jaysin

[Jaysin]

TRANQUILLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[milamber]

- They found the Le Suzuki Gods money shot lol. It's Naito!
- Miro the Godless.
- Swerve vs Tanahashi was solid. I hope Tana was saving his energy because he looked slow.
- Brody vs Andrade was good.
- Good Christian heat promo. Owen Cup hype.
- Willow vs Nyla was good.
- I hope Scorpio can back up his words.
- Standard squash for Hobbs.
- BCG & The Gunns vs CMFTRicky was my MOTN.

[Matt_Black]

When the Hobbs match was on, I was thinking, "Was this a match they taped for Rampage months ago & forgot about, and hastily edited it into the show tonight?"

[aXminster]

Omega vs Ospreay was just incredible. Okada vs Danielson did not live up to its hype. The Elite match was good and everything else I couldn't really get into.

[Dalton]

Fantastic show. The only negative point I can make is Okada/Danielson not being as good as it could have been, but obviously a broken arm not even halfway through the match will cause some changes. 

[Jaysin]

Even with a broken arm, Bryan Danielson puts on a hell of a show. I missed where he got hurt, but it was painful watching him use it once you notice him favoring it. 

My stream kept cutting out during the women's match so didn't see that at all, but I doubted Willow would win anyway. 

Even the pre show was full of good matches. 

Sting and Naito hitting a double team move made me fanboy hardcore. 

[milamber]

- CHAOS & Despy vs Mogul Embassy - *** 1/4
- Billie vs Athena (c) - *** 1/4
- El Phantasmo vs Stu - *** 1/4
- United Empire vs LIJ - *** 1/4
- Tanahashi vs MJF (c) - MJF pulled his usual tricks so Tana wouldn't have to run too much. *** 1/2
- Kojima vs Punk - 2 veterans sticking to what they do best. - *** 3/4
- Cassidy (c) vs Shibata vs Garcia vs ZSJ - Not even mad Orange Bollocks retained. ZSJ was MVP. **** 1/2
- Jungle Boy vs Sanada (c) - Needed more time. Wasn't expecting the heel turn yet! - *** 3/4
- The Elite, Kingston & Ishii vs BCC, Takeshita & Shooter - One of the best 5v5 matches. **** 3/4
- Willow vs Storm (c) - This one will will get bad ratings because women and interference finish 🙄 ****
- Ospreay vs Kenny (c) - Hype entrances. Tiger Driver '91 was nuts. Thought Kenny was winning. My MOTN and a MOTY Contender. - *****
- Suzuki, Jericho & Sammy vs Sting, Darby & Naito - Fun but sloppy. *** 1/4
- Danielson vs Okada - FINAL COUNTDOWN 😲 Props to the Dragon for wrestling a third of the match injured. I predict Okada wins back the IWGP title and they have a rematch at the Tokyo Dome. - **** 1/4

Fell short of last year's FD overall but there were still several great matches.

[Mootinie]

I'm only halfway through the show and will finish it tonight, here's what I think thus far:

- MJF vs. Tanahashi - simply not a World Title calibre match, Tana wrestled in slow motion and though MJF tried, he had to wrestle at half his capacity just so Tana could keep up. Believe it or not, Tanahashi was one of the best wrestlers in the world a decade ago. You wouldn't have known it watching this match. **1/4

- Punk vs. Kojima - this was great! Kojima looked really good here. You wouldn't watch this match and think it was Kojima who passed the torch to Tanahashi in 2009 (?) and that it was Tanahashi wrestling classics in the mid-2010's whilst Kojima defended the NWA title against goobers and tagged with Tenzan, Nakanishi & Nagata as part of the New Japan Dads. Maybe the opener would have been better if the dudes just played their hits like Punk and Kojima did here. Can we just take a second to appreciate how good Kojima looks for a 52-year-old? Insane. A great showing for the legend and a deserved bow at the end. ****

- International Four Way - the best thing here was the recognising of the roles that each dude would play. Cassidy was the underdog defender, Garcia was the entertainer interloper, Shibata was Shibata and Sabre Jr. was always holier than thou. They played it off brilliantly and this was a really fun sprint with plenty left in the tank for individual matches between these four. ****1/4

- SANADA vs. Jack Perry - a technically astute match and all but this was too short, lacked any sort of drama and was hardly a match befitting of NJPW's grandest prize. Either they needed to have a dramatic back and forth or they needed to make this an extended SANADA exhibition. They did neither. The heel turn is an indictment of AEW's booking problems. They have stop-started a few times with Jack Perry and here we are. You can't keep hitting the brakes and expecting the fans to keep following. How many turns for the sake of turns do we need to see? **3/4

- Elite & Friends vs. BCC & Affiliates - it was great to see Ishii getting the pin and I thought Takeshita looked awesome here. I don't have much else to say, this was exactly what everybody expected it would be. ****1/2

[Matt_Black]

The other big issue with the heel turn is that they've kind of booked themselves into a corner. Jungle Boy should really win his first feud as a heel, but it should not come at the expense of Hook's undefeated streak; it's been going on long enough that they shouldn't just throw it away to heat up a guy who needed a reset because of shoddy booking.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

10 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

The other big issue with the heel turn is that they've kind of booked themselves into a corner. Jungle Boy should really win his first feud as a heel, but it should not come at the expense of Hook's undefeated streak; it's been going on long enough that they shouldn't just throw it away to heat up a guy who needed a reset because of shoddy booking.

I assume Tony saw the reactions to Jungle Boy and how out of place Jack looked in that four pillars match (or his behavior towards fans) and decided to feed Jack to Hook. He's not wrong, Jack Perry probably needs to go away for a while -- he's been way over pushed.

Given his size and moveset, the only way Jack Perry will get over as a heel would be if AEW starts a cruiserweight division. Especially since Jack got over because fans like to sing his theme song.

It's like trying to push Shark Boy or Amazing Red as a heel -- the fans naturally want to cheer a small high flier with a underdog look.

Even for AEW, Jack Perry is just too small for a weasely heel (and not a good enough talker to be a manager).

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

With Ospreay taking the U.S. belt from Omega, I have to think we'll see Ospreay vs. Omega 3 on AEW programming.

Maybe Tony will co-promote a Dynamite taping or Battle of the Belts with RevPro sometime in August or September? The match will definitely pop a rating, and RevPro will benefit from sharing a stage with AEW.

They could also co-promote All Out with Rev Pro. Makes sense given that All In occurs the week before in England.

[Mootinie]

Okay, second half done!

- Toni vs. Willow - seemed to end just as it was starting to shift gears and become pretty good. I'm not a big fan of them running what is essentially an AEW match on this PPV. I get why they did this but was Iwatani busy? Was Kairi? It was a TV match. I keep getting told Willow is really good but I just don't see it, she seems like a lovely woman and she has a charisma and charm that nobody else in the division has. But I'm still waiting for the truly great showing that makes me understand the calls for her to be rocket strapped. **1/2

- Omega vs. Ospreay - what was the deal with Callis getting ejected from ringside and then just coming back with no consequence? What's the point in ejecting him then? You know, I know fans are gonna wax lyrical about this match. It was dramatic, it was fun, but matches where one dude needs the howitzer to beat the other just aren't good pro wrestling to me. I didn't dig this one on the level that I know a lot of fans are going to and that is okay. I thought it was indulgent and I'm not sure it was the good kind. ***1/2

- Darby, Sting, Naito vs. Jericho, Guevara & Suzuki - this match was terribly put together. Darby should have been in the ring for most of it, tag in Naito to do his spots, tag in Sting to play the hits and then go home. What we got was a mess that seemed to fall apart as soon as Jericho and Sting started teeing off on one another. Nobody knew where they were supposed to be, did it get cut for time? Did Naito even want to be there? I have lots of questions. *3/4

- Danielson vs. Okada - it was every Okada match I have ever seen. As methodical as ever, there were glimpses of a great match in here but I don't think this one ever got to the level it wanted to. Injury probably denied us a hot stretch and I'm sure they will run it back at Wrestle Kingdom. But this was far from a classic and with the benefit of hindsight, it probably shouldn't have gone on last. ***1/2

[milamber]

13 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

The other big issue with the heel turn is that they've kind of booked themselves into a corner. Jungle Boy should really win his first feud as a heel, but it should not come at the expense of Hook's undefeated streak; it's been going on long enough that they shouldn't just throw it away to heat up a guy who needed a reset because of shoddy booking.

Hook is a sideshow act in the lower midcard which is fine because he's young and still learning the business. They give him a match occasionally and the crowd go wild. Perry is far above him in the pecking order and should absolutely beat him. Then he needs to drop the Jungle Boy name and get a new theme remix.

Edited June 28, 2023 by milamber

[Matt_Black]

1 hour ago, milamber said:

Hook is a sideshow act in the lower midcard which is fine because he's young and still learning the business. They give him a match occasionally and the crowd go wild. Perry is far above him in the pecking order and should absolutely beat him. Then he needs to drop the Jungle Boy name and get a new theme remix.

Hook has "it".

[milamber]

3 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

Hook has "it".

He sure does and he'll get his chance to move up the card eventually. No rush.