The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[milamber]

5 hours ago, Blackman said:

Wow. They feature Joe vs Punk somewhere in some tournament. I already knew Punk would win, though I refused to believe it. The ending to that match was average at best. They put the ending on youtube with the all-caps "18 YEARS IN THE MAKING". How dare they even reference it and proceed to crap all over the history.

They could've went for this and make something meaningful - potentially even legendary - but it's all just short-term booking. I guess that's what I don't like about AEW. Granted, I only watched the youtube segment and didn't watch the full match, let alone show, but somehow I don't believe there's much quality to be found in AEW. Still haven't gotten a single of their PPV's because I just don't get hyped for any of it. Seeing this wasted opportunity just strenghtens my opinion on this company.

edit: nvm. I watched the promo before and it appears it's an Owen Hart tribute. I guess putting on this match could be interpreted as respect towards Owen, but there were alternatives. Anyhow I probably shouldn't be this harsh.

I should probably just let AEW be and stop being frustrated about the way they handle the industry. Example: Julia Hart had a match with a local, which is introduced as "tough as a buck". Yet she finched with every weak-looking strike Julia threw at her. The size difference is also handled poorly, as Julia nearly got dropped while performing an offensive move herself. And this was a match less than 2 minutes long... Why do they put W-L records on like it's some legitimite company and then proceed to use an insane amount of jobbers to raise these up? It doesn't make sense. It's a joke. This is the same card as the Punk vs Joe match ffs! The worst thing is the other girl is made to look like an idiot. They probably feel great to be featured in a main show, but doesn't this damage her credibility a lot? She did a good job however, and that's what matters, but these... fans probably don't see it that way.

As for the fans: I thought AEW was populated by disgruntled WWE fans that were disillusioned by the product, but it appears they are just... "new" fans? They post "Julia's so awesome", "Her psychology has improved so much", "What a winning streak: give her the title!"... What? Either she got build up from a skill-less manager to a halfway decent worker (I'm guessing this is the case, and props to her for that, but couldn't you improve in training first?), or their standards really are low. At least they are screaming "JULIA! JULIA!" even though she's clearly a heel, which again, just alienates the product imo.

I liked Punk vs Joe but a lot of peopleare overrating it saying it was a classic match.

AEW scrapped the W-L-D records last year. With the large roster and so many titles it was no longer viable.

Willow got injured so her Owen Cup match with Athena got cancelled. Julia's squash was a last minute replacement.

Edited July 10, 2023 by milamber

[Jaysin]

16 minutes ago, milamber said:

I liked Punk vs Joe but a lot of peopleare overrating it saying it was a classic match.

AEW scrapped the W-L-D records last year. With the large roster and so many titles it was no longer viable.

Willow got injured so her Owen Cup match with Athena got cancelled. Julia's squash was a last minute replacement.

They still show the W-L records and talk about it quite frequently on commentary.  So saying they're scrapped is a bit of a stretch. 

[Wrestling Machine]

Collision was pretty fun to watch!

Obviously this episode had big main event focus and Punk vs Joe didn't disappoint expectations, I liked the storytelling of the match revolving around avoiding the rear naked choke. I didn't understand why not have the episode shut down while Joe was strangling Punk on the mat tho, much more brutal and catchy.

[milamber]

23 hours ago, Jaysin said:

They still show the W-L records and talk about it quite frequently on commentary.  So saying they're scrapped is a bit of a stretch. 

You are correct... but they stopped showing the Top 5 Rankings in each division on their website/twitter long ago and it doesn't factor into title shots now (which was the original premise). Too hard to book around.

[Edited my post. Was really sick yesterday and posted with a foggy brain (bad idea) so what I intended to say didn't come out right first time.]

Edited July 11, 2023 by milamber

[aXminster]

5 hours ago, milamber said:

You are correct that they mention wins and losses like you would expect in wrestling... but they stopped displaying it on their website/twitter long ago and it doesn't factor into title shots now (which was the original premise). Too hard to to book around.

It's hard because they made it hard. They were trying to protect a lot of people at the same time and also have a bunch of people farming wins against jobbers on Dark.

How can you explain Scorpio Sky having 50 wins in a row on a youtube show that nobody is watching? You don't. That's why they got rid of it. The same goes to Marina Shafir, who was a lioness on Dark and a little cat on Dynamite.

The rankings are a good idea but you can't be afraid of having people winning and rising up in the rankings. FTR stalled a bit last year (or the year before, I don't recall exactly) when they were #1, no recent losses but couldn't challenge for the titles because they couldn't win at the time.

[Hollywood]

9 hours ago, milamber said:

You are correct that they mention wins and losses like you would expect in wrestling... but they stopped displaying it on their website/twitter long ago and it doesn't factor into title shots now (which was the original premise). Too hard to to book around.

The W-L records are on their website. https://www.allelitewrestling.com/aew-roster

[FellaLibby]

Win and losses should matter, but in practice they don't in wrestling. It's always who you beat, not how many you beat. Or how many losses you take. Someone could get 50 wins and still not improve up the card nor get a title match. But if say Powerhouse Hobbs beats PC Munk? Instant world title contender. On the flip side, if John Silver beats every ROH roster regular, he'd never even sniff the ROH World title. Let alone any AEW belt minus Tag Team. That's just how wrestling is. I know AEW tried presenting the W-L records that were meant to matter, but it just never panned out how they wanted.

[Jaysin]

13 hours ago, milamber said:

You are correct that they mention wins and losses like you would expect in wrestling... but they stopped displaying it on their website/twitter long ago and it doesn't factor into title shots now (which was the original premise). Too hard to to book around.

They have graphics in their entrances for every worker with their W-L record. It's not just mentions of wins and losses, the W-L concept wasn't scrapped, it was changed. 

[milamber]

I edited my post. I meant the Top 5 Rankings was what they scrapped. I'm glad they still track wins and losses because it adds to the presentation, even if it doesn't determine title shots now.

Edited July 11, 2023 by milamber

[Jaysin]

1 minute ago, milamber said:

I edited my post. I meant the Top 5 Rankings was what they scrapped. I'm glad they still track wins and losses because it adds to the presentation, even if it doesn't determine title shots now.

Now I see where the confusion was! 

[Wrestling Machine]

7 hours ago, FellaLibby said:

Win and losses should matter, but in practice they don't in wrestling.

We noticed it when Jungle Boy had a title shot for the IWGP World title @ Forbidden Door  lol

[Blackman]

On 7/9/2023 at 11:50 PM, Eternal Phoenix said:

I mean, you've been here longer than me. I'm sure you know the lay of land of this front better than I do.

Well...no. Some people get stuck in the "before days", you know.

And Punk vs Joe was obviously a decent match. It was just worse than their earlier classics. With more buildup it would've been a lot more bearable. Though in hindsight their superlong matches will not be bearable to watch for most fans nowadays.

And I don't mean to critisize the girl (Julia). She did a good job. I like fans with a positive attitude online, but I wouldn't praise her to the moon for her decent work (that is: in relation to the top level competitors). But maybe she'll get there. I hope so.

And the W-L records are even in the video game, so I doubt they'll be gone anytime soon. It's something they tried, like TNA trying so many formats and alternatives to WWE, but it was a bad idea.

[Hollywood]

5 hours ago, Wrestling Machine said:

We noticed it when Jungle Boy had a title shot for the IWGP World title @ Forbidden Door  lol

He answered an open challenge.

[Wrestling Machine]

2 hours ago, Hollywood said:

He answered an open challenge.

Yes because there was no other way to put him in such a match lol sometimes the Open Challenge expedient is a lame way to throw in random stuff, otherwise why should Jungle Boy have that spot?

I also wonder who else could have been chosen tbf ..

[MidKnightDreary]

My main problem is that Jungle Boy is too light for the Heavyweight title

[Blackman]

3 hours ago, MidKnightDreary said:

My main problem is that Jungle Boy is too light for the Heavyweight title

Why do they even still call it that? If you want to break with the past, just name it differently. Just "AEW World Title"?

People had the same problem with Rey Mysterio in WWE years ago. Would've been avoided if its name was different. It's stupid anyway as there's no weight limits put in place, so why reference weight at all? I guess it was a nod to boxing when pro wrestling first debuted.

[Jaysin]

10 minutes ago, Blackman said:

Why do they even still call it that? If you want to break with the past, just name it differently. Just "AEW World Title"?

People had the same problem with Rey Mysterio in WWE years ago. Would've been avoided if its name was different. It's stupid anyway as there's no weight limits put in place, so why reference weight at all? I guess it was a nod to boxing when pro wrestling first debuted.

The AEW title has no heavyweight designation. It has no weight limits. Jungle Boy had a shot at the IWGP World Heavyweight title at Forbidden Door, which is what MDK was referencing. 

[MidKnightDreary]

16 hours ago, Blackman said:

Why do they even still call it that? If you want to break with the past, just name it differently. Just "AEW World Title"?

People had the same problem with Rey Mysterio in WWE years ago. Would've been avoided if its name was different. It's stupid anyway as there's no weight limits put in place, so why reference weight at all? I guess it was a nod to boxing when pro wrestling first debuted.

I was actually referring to the IWGP title as Jaysin said. I don't mind ignoring the "heavyweight" for the WWE or AEW top belt, since it's been historically ignored by their own companies. Just don't like a light wrestler challenging for the IWGP, since it HAS historically been segregated.  

[aXminster]

Kinda meh show tonight. No bangers in-ring and the segments were average.

Really great to see Pac back though.

[Eternal Phoenix]

A breather episode before BLOOD AND GUTS. I can dig it.

[Matt_Black]

1 hour ago, aXminster said:

Kinda meh show tonight. No bangers in-ring and the segments were average.

Really great to see Pac back though.

I disagree. I think Adam Cole is terribly overrated, but this thing with him and MJF has been pure gold. That match, they had the crowd eating out of the palms of their hands. When Max finally hit the slam on Big Bill, the audience went, to quote the late great Pat Patterson, BANANA. When Cole and MJF finally hit that double clothesline, the crowd is going to make like it's Hogan body slamming Andre.

And the Harley rap segment was good. In fact, since she's a heel, or at least aligned with the heels, I'd go so far to say it was TOO good. Isn't the gimmick supposed to be she's BAD at this?

[aXminster]

52 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

I disagree. I think Adam Cole is terribly overrated, but this thing with him and MJF has been pure gold. That match, they had the crowd eating out of the palms of their hands. When Max finally hit the slam on Big Bill, the audience went, to quote the late great Pat Patterson, BANANA. When Cole and MJF finally hit that double clothesline, the crowd is going to make like it's Hogan body slamming Andre.

And the Harley rap segment was good. In fact, since she's a heel, or at least aligned with the heels, I'd go so far to say it was TOO good. Isn't the gimmick supposed to be she's BAD at this?

It's just personal opinion. I don't like some of the wrestlers so I just can't enjoy some segments they are in.

OC is the prime example. As soon as his theme hits, I mute the stream and just do whatever for fifteen minutes.

[Jaysin]

Adam Cole brings out the best in MJF. 

[Matt_Black]

I just hope Ruby doesn't win the finals at Collision, though I'm not sure how they'll play it. On the one hand, the Outcasts have been on a streak (I hesitate to call it a "hot" streak, because "heat" is not something I associate with Toni Storm or Ruby Soho at this point) and they need to get some degree of comeuppance. On the other hand, if she loses, this will mark the THIRD tournament final she's managed to lose (last year's Owen and the TBS tournament).

[Jaysin]

7 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

I just hope Ruby doesn't win the finals at Collision, though I'm not sure how they'll play it. On the one hand, the Outcasts have been on a streak (I hesitate to call it a "hot" streak, because "heat" is not something I associate with Toni Storm or Ruby Soho at this point) and they need to get some degree of comeuppance. On the other hand, if she loses, this will mark the THIRD tournament final she's managed to lose (last year's Owen and the TBS tournament).

That could lead to some fun tournament storylines down the line though and make her first tournament win more meaningful. Not saying it's a good idea to go that route, but I'm just trying to find a positive spin.