The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

1 hour ago, Matt_Black said:

Ending your PPV with four straight heel victories is certainly a choice.

You'd think given how hostile the fans were due to the circumstances AEW would try to make the fans go home happy.

It wasn't just that though. 

All Out had some real... questionable booking decisions. 

MJF & Adam Cole -- arguably the two top stars in AEW -- were booked against jobbers. 

Both teams were also babyfaces. 

FTR & The Bucks are in a major feud, and AEW had them team together against Bullet Club Gold. 

The two hottest heels on the card -- Starks and Hobbs -- both lost in matches with little build. 

I get they had to change the card due to Punk being fired. Still, AEW could've made some better decisions here. 

[Matt_Black]

See, apparently Dark Order has been both heeling it up as of late and winning, the problem is that AEW, like WWE, sometimes dramatically overestimates how many people watch (or even care about) the C-brand show.

Absolutely agree about Bullet Club Gold. The whole group gives me Shawn Michaels nWo vibes.

Starks not having build for his match is nobody's fault but Punk's, as plans had to be changed on the fly.

Hobbs and Miro DID have some build, dating back to about a month or so ago when the QTV goons tried to beat up the latter, though the whole thing was done inconsistently.

[Fleisch]

I understand why TK did it but to announce it before the show in Chicago... yeah...

From a wrestling standpoint, Punk was great for the company in front of the camera but his attitude backstage was clearly "I don't need this job and will do and say what I like". Which has blown up in his face. Punk holds onto grudges way too hard.

I hope Jungle Boy gets at least a suspension because he didn't need to make the comment in the first place. He knew how Punk would react and was just trying to suck up to the not so Young anymore Bucks.

I still think the Bucks have proven what garbage humans they are in this whole Punk situation too and are an embarrassment as EVPs... but thats a different story.

[PaperMachete]

1 hour ago, Fleisch said:

I hope Jungle Boy gets at least a suspension because he didn't need to make the comment in the first place.

TK said today that Jungle Boy is suspended indefinitely.

[PaperMachete]

Take this for what it is, but more and more information regarding Punk in AEW are surfacing. As always, take it with a pinch of salt. Who knows if it's true. According to a report for bodyslam.net, and I'm paraphrasing, Punk refused to shake Regal's hand when the latter made his AEW debut, called him a Triple H stooge and that he did not like him.

I didn't even know Regal could be disliked. 😁

[The Blonde Bomber]

33 minutes ago, PaperMachete said:

Take this for what it is, but more and more information regarding Punk in AEW are surfacing. As always, take it with a pinch of salt. Who knows if it's true. According to a report for bodyslam.net, and I'm paraphrasing, Punk refused to shake Regal's hand when the latter made his AEW debut, called him a Triple H stooge and that he did not like him.

I didn't even know Regal could be disliked. 😁

I understand his skepticism. Someone who is super close to Triple H who then by the end of the year up and left as quick as he showed up. In terms of as a person Regal seems lovely but if you’re looking at it from someone who wanted AEW to do good you’d have to be annoyed with him for how things went.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

3 hours ago, Fleisch said:

I understand why TK did it but to announce it before the show in Chicago... yeah...

From a wrestling standpoint, Punk was great for the company in front of the camera but his attitude backstage was clearly "I don't need this job and will do and say what I like". Which has blown up in his face. Punk holds onto grudges way too hard.

I hope Jungle Boy gets at least a suspension because he didn't need to make the comment in the first place. He knew how Punk would react and was just trying to suck up to the not so Young anymore Bucks.

I still think the Bucks have proven what garbage humans they are in this whole Punk situation too and are an embarrassment as EVPs... but thats a different story.

It's worrying that Punk apparently plans to issue an explosive statement. (source here) 

Tony shouldn't have built the company around Punk. He put way too much airtime into building a star with a poor track record, and that has backfired. 

Punk left for all intents and purposes as the world champion!

This could really hurt AEW. 

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

4 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

See, apparently Dark Order has been both heeling it up as of late and winning, the problem is that AEW, like WWE, sometimes dramatically overestimates how many people watch (or even care about) the C-brand show.

Absolutely agree about Bullet Club Gold. The whole group gives me Shawn Michaels nWo vibes.

Starks not having build for his match is nobody's fault but Punk's, as plans had to be changed on the fly.

Hobbs and Miro DID have some build, dating back to about a month or so ago when the QTV goons tried to beat up the latter, though the whole thing was done inconsistently.

I agree, most fans don't know what happened on Rampage or even Collision. 

I do think Starks losing to Danielson was a mistake. Danielson had an out -- he would've been fine losing to Starks here. 

Starks would've come out of that match the clear favorite to challenge for the World Title. AEW missed that opportunity. 

I worry that AEW will try to turn MJF heel again. The top two challengers -- Miro and Danielson -- are both good guys. 

The fans want to cheer MJF now. I don't know if MJF can really do anything in the ring to stop them from cheering.

I don't think AEW having a face vs. face matchup in a world title program will work that well. 

 

[Wrestling Machine]

1 hour ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

Tony shouldn't have built the company around Punk. He put way too much airtime into building a star with a poor track record

Punk was already a star, he elevated AEW and not vice versa 

[milamber]

- Charity Battle Royale - Hangman was best choice to win. - ***

- Shida, Willow & Blue vs Athena, Martinez & Diamante - Nice to see Billie the Minion. Shida vs Athena please. - *** 1/2

- JJ, Lethal & Satnam vs HoA (c) - Caster rap was a bust. - ***

- Dark Order vs MJF & Cole (c) - Shame Dark Order had to lose. - *** 3/4

- Joe (c) vs Taylor - MJF & Joe fighting was interesting. Joe losing at All In was a bad call in hindsight. - *** 1/2

- Darby vs Luchasaurus (c) - ROH crew to the rescue lol. - ****

- Hobbs vs Miro - Much better than expected. I hoped they would team up. Hot wife! - **** 1/4

- Ruby vs Statlander (c) - Destination Unknown returned. Thankfully longer than the Fatal 4-Way. Toni lol. - ****

- Starks vs Danielson (Strap Match) - Final Countdown again! - **** 3/4

- Shibata & Kingston vs Claudio & Yuta - Eddie should win the ROH Championship at Grand Slam. - **** 1/4

- Takeshita vs Omega - MOTY Contender. Star-making performance and win for Takeshita. - *****

- BCG vs FTR & Bucks - They co-existed. - **** 1/2

- Mox vs Cassidy (c) - MOTY Contender. Surprised by the result. Would have liked Takeshita to be the next International Champion. - *****

Top 5 PPV despite the lacking build-up. Perfect statement after the controversy. The heavy schedule of the last week's has burned me out a bit and there's another PPV in 4 weeks lol.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

Thoughts? 

I've thought for a while Punk may jump to NWA for similar reasons. 

I don't think we'll see Punk carry the AEW Championship over or FTR join him. 

This is probably one of those rumors that will go nowhere if not completely made up, but the core idea makes some sense if Punk wants to stay in the wrestling business.

I could see Punk joining the NWA as Head Booker and Co-Owner to get NWA a major TV deal.

Especially with the knowledge that AEW got a TV slot largely on the promise they re-signed CM Punk.

[overthetop2]

23 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

Ending your PPV with four straight heel victories is certainly a choice.

Definitely not how I would book a show, as I would fear losing the crowd due to depressing viewing and lack of chances to pop.  The placement of this PPV right after a bigger PPV may be the culprit, as I guess AEW felt the need for the heels to get their heat back after All In was booked to have the faces win almost every match (which is how a season finale typically goes).

[Mootinie]

I think the bloom came off the rose in about July 2022 for CM Punk. The buy rate for All Out 2022 and the lack of a sharp ratings increase for their Rocky 3 story should have set alarm bells ringing. There was this clear lack of audience interest in having the guy on top. It was weird, it was like people tuned out once he won the belt, like they were just waiting for AEW to hit that button or something.

Then Collision was a flop. It has been beaten in the demo ratings by NXT for the last four weeks and it will probably be five weeks when the ratings for the most recent Saturday come out. That makes it six of the last seven weeks. The outlier in this is the show they put MJF and Adam Cole on. I feel like Punk's star has waned considerably, that whole show has not been good for his brand at all. It has failed before its actual competition has started, they banked on Punk and it has not worked for them.

Overall, I think Punk fought a political battle with The Elite and he lost when Tony re-upped their deals. He probably felt like his deal wasn't going to be renewed. He tried to get a contract buyout after Brawl Out. He probably wanted out but he didn't want to resign and leave all that money on the table. Now he will likely sue over termination "with cause" and try to get AEW to pay him to go away. They spent a week getting their ducks in a row, it's hard for me to imagine that Punk has much of a case. WBD fought for him the first time around, they probably didn't lift a finger with the second go-around.

As for what he'll do now, I don't imagine anybody worth their salt would have him. WWE won't. NJPW probably don't want to sour their relationship with AEW by bringing him in. NWA is a dead league and I cannot imagine that Punk and Billy would see eye to eye on anything and certainly not on politics. IMPACT probably don't want to touch him, their business has been on a steady incline for a while now but maybe they're more desperate than I think they are. God knows. Punk is 100% the type to think it's either WWE, NJPW, AEW or it's nowhere because nobody else is big enough for CM Punk.

And AEW will be fine. They were fine when he was gone for a year. They were fine before he joined. No dramas.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

15 minutes ago, Mootinie said:

Overall, I think Punk fought a political battle with The Elite and he lost when Tony re-upped their deals. He probably felt like his deal wasn't going to be renewed. He tried to get a contract buyout after Brawl Out. He probably wanted out but he didn't want to resign and leave all that money on the table. Now he will likely sue over termination "with cause" and try to get AEW to pay him to go away. They spent a week getting their ducks in a row, it's hard for me to imagine that Punk has much of a case. WBD fought for him the first time around, they probably didn't lift a finger with the second go-around.

I think that's my main point of criticism for AEW. They should've gone with either The Elite or Punk, and not tried to make them work together. Regardless who comes out on top here, Punk shooting on AEW will hurt the company. 

16 minutes ago, Mootinie said:

As for what he'll do now, I don't imagine anybody worth their salt would have him. WWE won't. NJPW probably don't want to sour their relationship with AEW by bringing him in. NWA is a dead league and I cannot imagine that Punk and Billy would see eye to eye on anything and certainly not on politics. IMPACT probably don't want to touch him, their business has been on a steady incline for a while now but maybe they're more desperate than I think they are. God knows. Punk is 100% the type to think it's either WWE, NJPW, AEW or it's nowhere because nobody else is big enough for CM Punk.

The battle for any promotion is getting a good TV deal and CM Punk has the proven brand recognition to get one.

Fox pushed WWE to bring him back for programming a few years back and TNT made a deal for more shows contingent on Punk signing. 

NWA is also a relatively recognized brand, some people grew up watching it and many others remember it from the "10 Pounds of Gold" days. I would wager more people know about the NWA than they do Impact. 

Billy could definitely leverage a Punk signing into a major TV deal. It's been done before. 

[Hollywood]

On 9/4/2023 at 9:12 PM, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

Thoughts? 

I've thought for a while Punk may jump to NWA for similar reasons. 

I don't think we'll see Punk carry the AEW Championship over or FTR join him. 

This is probably one of those rumors that will go nowhere if not completely made up, but the core idea makes some sense if Punk wants to stay in the wrestling business.

I could see Punk joining the NWA as Head Booker and Co-Owner to get NWA a major TV deal.

Especially with the knowledge that AEW got a TV slot largely on the promise they re-signed CM Punk.

I agree, my friend! CM Punk vs. EC3 and then CM Punk vs. Trevor Murdoch would draw the ratings. I'm hoping Tyrus decides to unretire so he can get another push too. Big things happening in a CM Punk NWA!

[FellaLibby]

I find it sad that if what people say is true that Punk was "It's me or them", any booker would obviously choose The Elite over Punk. Punk maybe a big star as himself, but The Elite literally helped forge AEW, and would likely be a more legal headache for Tony to handle. It's unknown if Kenny and/or The Bucks had the same hard-line stance as Punk did, but I wouldn't blame them if that's the case. Plus, they are 4 talented stars (Kenny Hanger, Bucks), and respected by a sizeable portion of the roster, at best case, they work together and *never* work together. Which would've left a lot of money on the table never finalized all because of ego. At worst, it could've turned into another screwjob incident where actual people would leave the company because they won't work with Punk or the Elite.

Collision was a decent idea to keep them separated, but I personally don't like the whole "soft brand split" thing. I didn't like it when WWE was dragging the brand split in 2011-2016, and I don't like it when only certain people you'll only see on (THIS SHOW) whereas you'll see some people multiple shows. I'm glad with Punk gone, Collision will not have any restricted rosters and we'll see more people hopefully. 

As for the future? Who knows. I don't like CM Punk, I haven't since he walked out on WWE. His firing was a long time coming for a anti Punk guy like me (sidenote he's on my TEW Blacklist) and I can say that AEW will be better without him. It will still be interesting where he ends up, tho my money's on WWE because they see the value he is in this instance. But we'll see. As long as this truly isn't a work, please for the love of God don't be a work! This will be the most terrible outcome if it's a work!!!

Edited September 6, 2023 by FellaLibby

[Mootinie]

9 hours ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

I think that's my main point of criticism for AEW. They should've gone with either The Elite or Punk, and not tried to make them work together.

Paying a guy not to work the length of his pre-agreed deal would have been even worse than bringing him back. Tony took the stance of Punk has a contract and come hell or high water, he's going to work the darn contract.

For better or worse, and for all the arguments of his leadership, paying a dude to go away because he's causing trouble backstage may have been the weakest move of them all.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Mootinie

[Jaysin]

Finally got to finish All Out and man, for a show that was mostly last minute booked, it was fun on a bun. 

Mox vs Orange was incredible imo 

The entire Orange Cassidy run has been wonderful and told such a good story. 

Despite losing, Orange comes out of this looking fantastic for hanging with one of the top guys yet again. Mox imitating the pocket stuff was hysterical. 

I'm confused on the alignment of BCC. It's like Mox is a tweener, Bryan is a face, and Yuta and Claudio are heels. Interesting dynamic that I can't really recall happening before. 

I love that BCC and Best Friends walked out with Mox and Orange too. It shows unity within both factions. 

I'm loving the Adam Cole/MJF storyline, but kinda wish the ROH tag titles weren't involved. I guess at least they didn't have Cole and MJF dethrone FTR

Edited September 7, 2023 by Jaysin

[aXminster]

I'm kinda bummed that they are doing another mini tournament. It's like the 7th this year alone. Time to bring the rankings back.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

7 hours ago, aXminster said:

I'm kinda bummed that they are doing another mini tournament. It's like the 7th this year alone. Time to bring the rankings back.

Have to think they're telegraphing Samoa Joe vs. MJF a bit with the bracket.

Darby is pretty much the only other big name in that group.

[aXminster]

1 hour ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

Have to think they're telegraphing Samoa Joe vs. MJF a bit with the bracket.

Darby is pretty much the only other big name in that group.

That's how they always do in these tournaments. It's just lazy booking.

Joe vs MJF could be good, and their segment was the high point of the show today, but Joe just lost clean to Punk 10 days ago. Not the right timing for this match.

Why isn't Takeshita in this tournament? And Jay White? And where the hell is Wardlow? Keith Lee? Lance Archer? Andrade? Hangman won that battle royal and he isn't in the tournament?

All these guys should be featured before Nick Wayne, Trent, Roderick Strong, Jay Lethal and Jeff Hardy.

Every single wrestler should be fighting to have a World Title match at Grand Slam.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

49 minutes ago, aXminster said:

That's how they always do in these tournaments. It's just lazy booking.

Joe vs MJF could be good, and their segment was the high point of the show today, but Joe just lost clean to Punk 10 days ago. Not the right timing for this match.

Why isn't Takeshita in this tournament? And Jay White? And where the hell is Wardlow? Keith Lee? Lance Archer? Andrade? Hangman won that battle royal and he isn't in the tournament?

I could see Roderick Strong winning the tournament. Samoa Joe losing in the semifinals would kill his momentum at this point.

Takeshita and Ospreay would both be great MJF opponents. Both have been pushed seriously, are great workers and have a lot of momentum.

I guess they could have other commitments and not be available to work a main title program.

Personally, I'd have Miro turn heel and take on MJF. Miro has the name value and rapport with an American audience to draw a big number on PPV.

49 minutes ago, aXminster said:

All these guys should be featured before Nick Wayne, Trent, Roderick Strong, Jay Lethal and Jeff Hardy.

Every single wrestler should be fighting to have a World Title match at Grand Slam.

AEW has some real talent on the roster but they aren't getting pushed.

For example, Anthony Bowens is a guy who could be a big singles star. He can really sell and has cut some great promos. Love to see him get a few singles wins.

Edited September 7, 2023 by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[FellaLibby]

My money is on Roddy getting the match, just to rub more salt in the Cole/MJF love story. While I'd like to see Joe get the match he deserves, I don't want to see him lose to MJF with no additional build other than "He pushed me!" And this tournament as reason. Everyone else in this feels like fodder.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

1 hour ago, FellaLibby said:

My money is on Roddy getting the match, just to rub more salt in the Cole/MJF love story. While I'd like to see Joe get the match he deserves, I don't want to see him lose to MJF with no additional build other than "He pushed me!" And this tournament as reason. Everyone else in this feels like fodder.

Joe is one of the biggest stars in the company and three straight losses -- especially with one to either Pentagon or Jay Lethal -- would make Samoa Joe look really weak.

AEW doesn't have many proven draws and Joe is one of them. They should protect Samoa Joe.

Edited September 7, 2023 by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[Mootinie]

6 hours ago, aXminster said:

That's how they always do in these tournaments. It's just lazy booking.

Joe vs MJF could be good, and their segment was the high point of the show today, but Joe just lost clean to Punk 10 days ago. Not the right timing for this match.

Why isn't Takeshita in this tournament? And Jay White? And where the hell is Wardlow? Keith Lee? Lance Archer? Andrade? Hangman won that battle royal and he isn't in the tournament?

All these guys should be featured before Nick Wayne, Trent, Roderick Strong, Jay Lethal and Jeff Hardy.

Every single wrestler should be fighting to have a World Title match at Grand Slam.

At this point I've faced the music, this is just how Tony Khan books wrestling. For better or worse, he clearly doesn't want Takeshita, Hangman or Jay White fighting for the belt and he doesn't want to pin them either.

I'm not entirely sure Joe needs to win a tournament for a title shot either. Roddy Strong, sure. But Joe is basically bulletproof at this point.