Has a dojo ever produced good talent?

[welshlewis91]

Hey guys have you guys ever had any luck with talent come up through dojos in rw mods, as I haven't had any one come through in 5 played years on my local to global save, if so can you share your talent as I have not seen what a good regen looks like.

[Bigpapa42]

<p>The first question I would is whether any talent is coming through the dojo at all? There is a setting for when the game should start producing workers and if its a future date, you won't see any at all (except for necessary talent to fill in a region) until that date. </p><p> </p><p>

But beyond that.... yes, reasonable talent comes through. Its random and spotty, but if you have the worker generation at the highest level, you will see world class prospects come through, who will develop into top level workers.</p>

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<p>Short answer no.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

Long answer, depends on the relative worker skill of the mid in question.</p><p>

In real world mods like RWC by Fleisch absolutely as the standard is very low.</p><p> </p><p>

C-Verse/Default/80s mods? No chance. You might get one or two guys in a save that cap s a solid midcarder. Genuine main event national level guys just doesn’t happen.</p>

[Zero]

I have to disagree. I have several dojos scattered across the world in my WWF 87-2002 game and have had a ton of talent come through.

 

I will admit the best workers have come from WWF Europe and WWF Japan but I have turned two of them into upper mid-card talent with the possibility of being a main event talent that I will launch once I create my brand split.

 

Usually they spend three years in development but once I bring them up to the main roster, I have them work dark matches with my top talent for two years. After two years, I decide to pull the plug or not.

 

A few guys I released ended up getting better working for AJPW, NJPW, and WCW. I picked them back up later.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zero" data-cite="Zero" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46710" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have to disagree. I have several dojos scattered across the world in my WWF 87-2002 game and have had a ton of talent come through.<p> </p><p> I will admit the best workers have come from WWF Europe and WWF Japan but I have turned two of them into upper mid-card talent with the possibility of being a main event talent that I will launch once I create my brand split.</p><p> </p><p> Usually they spend three years in development but once I bring them up to the main roster, I have them work dark matches with my top talent for two years. After two years, I decide to pull the plug or not.</p><p> </p><p> A few guys I released ended up getting better working for AJPW, NJPW, and WCW. I picked them back up later.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> “Depends on the baseline talent of the mod”</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Also you literally just told me that you’ve had two workers in 15 years turn into good midcarders which is exactly what I just said.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Also there is no “possible” main eventers. In mods it doesn’t really matter especially if you are already playing as WWF, but in CVerse where you need to beat either USPW, SOTBW or both you aren’t doing that with new gene.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> If you are lucky you might get a guy who contributes 800+ which is a weak main eventer once every decade.</p>

[Peria]

“Depends on the baseline talent of the mod”

 

 

 

Also you literally just told me that you’ve had two workers in 15 years turn into good midcarders which is exactly what I just said.

 

 

Also there is no “possible” main eventers. In mods it doesn’t really matter especially if you are already playing as WWF, but in CVerse where you need to beat either USPW, SOTBW or both you aren’t doing that with new gene.

 

 

If you are lucky you might get a guy who contributes 800+ which is a weak main eventer once every decade.

 

If we're going strictly by main event worthy... anyone who rolls a 90+ SQ is worthy. Not really quite sure what else you'd need to win national battles. Not only that but I've gotten some insanely good guys come through on both C-Verse and Real World mods. Your graduates don't come out with 90 in every stat, they're usually 18, and have about 20 years before they lose value. Do you want everyone to be Miyahara or Okada? Or Kurt Angle? I'm confused.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

If we're going strictly by main event worthy... anyone who rolls a 90+ SQ is worthy. Not really quite sure what else you'd need to win national battles. Not only that but I've gotten some insanely good guys come through on both C-Verse and Real World mods. Your graduates don't come out with 90 in every stat, they're usually 18, and have about 20 years before they lose value. Do you want everyone to be Miyahara or Okada? Or Kurt Angle? I'm confused.

 

90 SQ with 60-70 max overness is worthless actually, and for some odd reason that is the majority of newgens with that roll.

 

In order to produce a > 800 National battle worker you need someone with a minimum of 80/100 but 100 cap is so rare it might as well not even be talked about.

 

So let’s say 90-95 which is more common for top, top prospects.

 

You need a minimum of 89 SQ just to be competitive with th WORST of USPW AND SOTBW.

 

Granted both these companies frequently have guys in the 900 range, which requires you to have a prospect with literally 98-100 SQ to even have a chance.

 

 

Granted this is a lot different than the day, 15 or so workers who already are at this level and maybe 6-7 more with variance that can conceivably reach this.

 

 

I’m talking guys like Ugaki and Kawashima if/when Pride goes bankrupt, or Magnum Kobe or Jack Avatar or Swoop McCarthy or sometimes Ricky Decolt and eventually Tommy Jr.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Of course all of this could be solved by simply removing overness caps from TEW entirely which I’ve advocated for years, but I have been constantly shouted down by people who have zero understanding on how TEW works mechanically.

 

Usually every time I mentioned it basically could be summarized as “something something Billy Gunn”.

 

There is a better solution, but it’s much more complicated and I doubt it will be implemented when most people are satisfied with the status quo because of how TEW is most commonly played.

 

1-3 year dynasties with the same set of workers and big companies.

[Jomosensual]

My dojo guys in the C-Verse have turned out pretty well, especially Harvey Robbinfield, who I'm getting ready to push into my upper card soon and will be main eventing shows once i get some space in my main event scene. If you only mean the randomly generated workers from the dojos then I'd have to look over things again but there's some guys who are really starting to develop from those as well in my save

[TLCJR4LIFE]

My dojo guys in the C-Verse have turned out pretty well, especially Harvey Robbinfield, who I'm getting ready to push into my upper card soon and will be main eventing shows once i get some space in my main event scene. If you only mean the randomly generated workers from the dojos then I'd have to look over things again but there's some guys who are really starting to develop from those as well in my save

 

 

What is his star quality and max overness?

[King Bison]

Short answer no.

 

 

 

Long answer, depends on the relative worker skill of the mid in question.

In real world mods like RWC by Fleisch absolutely as the standard is very low.

 

C-Verse/Default/80s mods? No chance. You might get one or two guys in a save that cap s a solid midcarder. Genuine main event national level guys just doesn’t happen.

 

It’s random so every game will play out differently but I’ve had random gen dojo grads on my nbt list several times. In my main cverse save, I’m over 30 years in. The top of my card is pretty much all dojo grads and I’m a global company. Everything about the dojo grad is random from their starting skills to their destiny roll so it does happen it’s just a matter of computer generated fate

[TLCJR4LIFE]

It’s random so every game will play out differently but I’ve had random gen dojo grads on my nbt list several times. In my main cverse save, I’m over 30 years in. The top of my card is pretty much all dojo grads and I’m a global company. Everything about the dojo grad is random from their starting skills to their destiny roll so it does happen it’s just a matter of computer generated fate

 

 

Well yes 30 years in all of the starting workers will be retired or like 50 years old.

 

Secondly NBT means nothing.

All NBT means is >76 max charisma and psychology. You can get all of this on a crappy 74 max overness worker and be a glorified mid carder, in fact I actually think this is more common than otherwise.

 

 

NBT is generally completely useless with the exception of seeing if your worker has charisma or the potential for charisma, that’s all it’s useful for.

 

Hot Prospects will tell you everything about your worker, what his max overness is and what his performance skills will cap out at.

 

 

EDIT: NBT tells you the max overness as well but you can also get this information from Hot Prospects, and NBT won’t tell you the general performance caps, ie how good your worker will actually be, it just tells you he has psychology threshold that isn’t completely awful.

 

And I believe basics as well, can’t remember as it’s been a while.

 

But you literally could have like a 78/78/40/30 performance worker and he’s NBT as long as he also has a max charisma of 76 or higher.

 

Even though this worker is actually really bad.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Notable that workers with sub 70 overness caps do exist they are just extremely rare.

 

I think they are nearly as rare as the amount of workers with A or higher overness caps.

 

 

An overwhelming majority of the workers in the game will fall somewhere between 70-80.

[Zero]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46710" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>“Depends on the baseline talent of the mod”<p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Also you literally just told me that you’ve had two workers in 15 years turn into good midcarders which is exactly what I just said.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Also there is no “possible” main eventers. In mods it doesn’t really matter especially if you are already playing as WWF, but in CVerse where you need to beat either USPW, SOTBW or both you aren’t doing that with new gene.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> If you are lucky you might get a guy who contributes 800+ which is a weak main eventer once every decade.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> I say only two because that is how many I personally developed. In Japan and Europe, random generated DOJO guys have made it to main event and have flooded the main event scene of my small-cult promotions.</p><p> </p><p> If there is one flaw I see with the system is that the CPU doesn't build talent well (specifically when it comes to sports entertainment based promotions. AJPW and NJPW all have random generated talent wrestling in their main event scene with Chono and Muta</p><p> </p><p> Edit - I could have turned more into top talent (Upper Card to Main Event) but I decided not to because they don't fit the narrative of my promotion. I use a lot of those talented superstars in my lower and open positions so I can release them and allow them to develop on the independent scene with some popularity from being in my promotion.</p>

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zero" data-cite="Zero" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46710" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I say only two because that is how many I personally developed. In Japan and Europe, random generated DOJO guys have made it to main event and have flooded the main event scene of my small-cult promotions.<p> </p><p> If there is one flaw I see with the system is that the CPU doesn't build talent well (specifically when it comes to sports entertainment based promotions. AJPW and NJPW all have random generated talent wrestling in their main event scene with Chono and Muta</p><p> </p><p> Edit - I could have turned more into top talent (Upper Card to Main Event) but I decided not to because they don't fit the narrative of my promotion. I use a lot of those talented superstars in my lower and open positions so I can release them and allow them to develop on the independent scene with some popularity from being in my promotion.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> I’m talking about main eventers in the biggest companies.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Literally anyone can main event a sub National company.</p><p> </p><p> You could build your shows around La Creatura La Navidad if you wanted to and not have any issues at all.</p>

[Zero]

I’m talking about main eventers in the biggest companies.

 

 

Literally anyone can main event a sub National company.

 

You could build your shows around La Creatura La Navidad if you wanted to and not have any issues at all.

 

 

Yeah, it goes more on how the cpu books talent

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<p>No, againit has nothing to do with the AI and everything to do with the disporptionately low max overness and skill caps for generated workers.</p><p> </p><p>

It also applies to human companies</p>

[Remianen]

No, againit has nothing to do with the AI and everything to do with the disporptionately low max overness and skill caps for generated workers.

 

It also applies to human companies

 

While I agree with some of your points, I think you're missing the forest because you're fixated on ONE TREE. Yes, overness caps can suck and a means of removing them (in some degree) en masse would be welcome. There's already a way of breaking overness caps that's been in the game since 05 or 07 but it's unwieldy and time consuming. However, a worker can, to a point, develop into greater than they started out as and the game does reflect that (in very limited fashion). But that's how reality works. The reason why people bring up Billy Gunn is because he's the perfect example of what could've been. If Cena had come through the Power Plant (what was left of it) or TNA instead of coming under the influence of Rick Bassman, Jim Cornette, and Danny Davis, would he have become who he became? The reason why promotions outside the US tend to develop talent "better" (in-ring skill wise) is often the "pay your dues" policies prevalent outside of the US. Okada and Nakamura and Tanahashi probably don't develop into 'stars' without that. Heck, Kenny Omega was in the US development pipeline (DSW, if I remember correctly) and languishing before going to Japan and becoming Kenny Omega. But forget Billy Gunn, how about Austin or Undertaker or The Rock or Shawn Michaels, all of whom had to develop into what they later became? No one looked at Stunning Steve Austin, Mean Mark Callous, or Rocky Maivia and said, "Those guys are going to be the biggest stars in wrestling history.".

 

All I'm saying is, workers can be 'good' when they debut/graduate from a dojo and become better as a result of what they do afterward. BUT, you make an excellent point in that the truly exceptional workers that you need to be viable at National+ are probably a bit too rare, given their importance. I think the expectation was, you would poach those workers and have them concentrated in one promotion (yours). But you have to get to the point where you can do that! A guy with 60 SQ probably isn't going to hit 90+ even if he's 'Small' with a max size of 'Middleweight' (diminishing returns on SQ gained from bulking up) and even with an overness cap of 100, that's going to kneecap his battle value.

 

To answer the OP, yes you can get 'good' workers from dojos but world beaters or generational talents (the wrestling equivalent of Ronaldo and Messi, like Cena, Rock, Orton) are highly unlikely. If you see one generated, go buy a lottery ticket. IMMEDIATELY!

[Kijar]

I have played 12 years of a game working my way up to being the number 1 company in the world. As a Global company, one of my main eventers is a dojo graduate of mine. Another game-generated worker is also in my main event scene.

 

The upper midcard has 5 game-generated workers, while my midcard has 11 (3 of which are from my own dojo). 18 in the undercard, but their stats are crazy for their ages.

 

It really depends how long you play, but it's a mixed bag for sure. I don't think its impossible.

[Historian]

It's definitely not impossible. In The Climb's universe -- currently one of NOTBPW's main eventers is a game-generated dojo graduate, so is one of their UMC talents. USPW, the biggest company in the world, has one as an UMC and MC. The one who is an MC was a main eventer for NOTBPW, including winning the Canadian Championship and twice being Young Wrestler of the Year.

 

Mind you, all of these guys are at most, seven-year veterans and I think that is very important to keep in mind. As Remianen stated before, it took Steve Austin quite awhile before he became "Stone Cold" and became the biggest star in the business. It was about nine years into his active career before he beat Shawn Michaels to win the World Championship. Dojo graduates, like anything else, take time to develop their skills, mature and become ready to stars.

 

I also echo what Remianen said about their being fewer than I'd like -- but it also comes down to how the game pushes people from an AI stand point. Big companies rarely, in my experience, fully develop new stars. USPW, which has no training school, poaches talent and stars to fill the voids. Seven years into the game and Dominic DeSousa is the only SWF dojo graduate that starts out in RIPW that's cracked the main event scene for them (in fairness, I have both Primus Allen and Spencer Spade and at one point had Hellion and Scythe too).

[BuddyGarner]

Getting around overness caps is easy. Just run daily shows and run a ton of angles.

[Hashasheen]

Big companies rarely, in my experience, fully develop new stars. USPW, which has no training school, poaches talent and stars to fill the voids. Seven years into the game and Dominic DeSousa is the only SWF dojo graduate that starts out in RIPW that's cracked the main event scene for them (in fairness, I have both Primus Allen and Spencer Spade and at one point had Hellion and Scythe too).

 

I blame the owner / booking settings for that. I think it might be very rare to get a combo of both AI being invested in getting and elevating young talent, rather than just getting wrestlers with appropriate pop / style to fill out the roster.