MLW Discussion Thread

[BHK1978]

Although I'm not necessarily inclined to believe that last point because MLW just did a barnburner of an empty arena match in the loser leave battle between Mance Warner and MJF. But Mance and Max fought over a wider swath of arena. They fought with greater energy and urgency. They just let it all hang out.

 

Saw this in the AEW thread and thought, "We might as well have a place for MLW to be talked about."

 

I am not sure why but for some reason MLW seems to be the only promotion that really captures my interest right now. Yes I will watch the WWE and AEW (Mostly during commercial breaks for other shows) but I am just not a huge fan of what they are putting out.

 

I tried the NWA and if any promotion should peak my interests it should have been that. But I simply could not get into it.

 

I am actually saddened by how far ROH and TNA have fallen. Both their rosters are nowhere near as good as they once were.

 

But MLW has been the one promotion that has given me my wrestling fix. It reminds me of a smaller scale WCW or TNA with a mix of ECW for good luck.

 

Yes there are some wrestlers I am not fond of. Jordan Oliver being at the top of that list. I mean come on there is no way you can convince me that, that human toothpick is a credible threat to anyone. I will say though, I loved Injustice's war with the referees storyline.

 

I also cannot buy Simon Gotch as a heel who should be feared. To me he is always going to be a Vaudevillain. Yes that is me typecasting him but I stand by what I said. Every time I see him I automatically think of his dumb WWE gimmick.

 

As for my personal favorites on the roster right now. I like Tom Lawlor, I think he is doing a great job as a heel you love to hate. He is so over the top with a lot of the stuff he does.

 

Mance Warner. Ol' Mancer is awesome. I loved his feud with Jimmy Havoc and I really have enjoyed his feud with the Dynasty. Yeah he might come across as a little bit of a Stone Cold copycat but I still enjoy him. His matches and the angles they put him in are often the highlight of the week. Plus it is always great when Uncle Moonman shows up.

 

The Dynasty. They are just great. I wish MJF would have stayed but the others are still highly entertaining. They have not really done much with Gino Medina yet so I really do not have an opinion of him. But the other two are great heels. I could see Hammerstone having a face run down the road. Holliday is great as the snobbish heel, I love it when he refers to the fans as consumers.

 

She's not a wrestler but I really like Alicia Atout. First off she is absolutely beautiful, but beyond that I think she does a great job as a backstage correspondent. I have been a fan of her since I first saw her on YouTube and it is great to see her working for MLW.

[cappyboy]

Saw this in the AEW thread and thought, "We might as well have a place for MLW to be talked about."

 

Oh Absolutely. Starting this thread myself is one of those thing I've kept meaning to do and been too distracted to achieve. So glad someone else came to the same conclusion.

 

 

But MLW has been the one promotion that has given me my wrestling fix. It reminds me of a smaller scale WCW or TNA with a mix of ECW for good luck.

 

Yes there are some wrestlers I am not fond of. Jordan Oliver being at the top of that list. I mean come on there is no way you can convince me that, that human toothpick is a credible threat to anyone. I will say though, I loved Injustice's war with the referees storyline.

 

Disagree with you on Oliver. I love the guy. To my mind, he's the guy that really makes Injustice sing as a gimmick rather than just being another bit. Physically you aren't wrong. But then, I've always found being "a credible threat" a bit overrated in wrestling. If the guy were being presented as a brawler or a Mr. Olympia candidate then I'd be right there with you. But the guy is portraying a whiny little punk who happens to be a speed merchant. As such, who cares if he's imposing or not? He's perfect for the role he's given.

 

If anybody feels like they need to be out of Injustice, it's Kotto. Good talent don't get me wrong. But I don't see the fit. Myron Reed's place is obvious. He's been with the group since Rich Swann started it up. With Jordan Oliver, it's just his (in-character) nature.. But Kotto? People loved him and vice versa until the eye injury. Then suddenly he came back and had a hate on for everything. It's never really made any sense. Wish they'd get him out and put someone with a better beef in his place.

 

 

I also cannot buy Simon Gotch as a heel who should be feared. To me he is always going to be a Vaudevillain. Yes that is me typecasting him but I stand by what I said. Every time I see him I automatically think of his dumb WWE gimmick.

 

I think part of the problem there is the name. "Simon Gotch" is a name with baggage as you mention. Now if here were Simon GRIMM, as he was in RoH the first time I got to see him firsthand, that's a name more worthy of fear than the Gotch name that was used so frivolously elsewhere. And that's kind of a sad statement in a way given how far back in wrestling history the Gotch name goes.

 

As for my personal favorites on the roster right now. I like Tom Lawlor, I think he is doing a great job as a heel you love to hate. He is so over the top with a lot of the stuff he does.

 

Oh no doubt. And for an old-school guy like myself, it helps all the more that he's doing it against the modern generation of Von Erichs. Things feel a little more right in the world when I can turn on a wrestling show where Von Erichs are relevant and a new voice is lodging new forms of the classic complaints against them.

 

But regardless of target, he just feels so natural. He really makes you believe he would be such an extreme agitator. And I'd say the best part of it is that some of his more repulsive bits like pretending to desecrate the Texas state flag just serve to make his "Filthy" nickname feel all the more fitting.

 

 

Mance Warner. Ol' Mancer is awesome. I loved his feud with Jimmy Havoc and I really have enjoyed his feud with the Dynasty. Yeah he might come across as a little bit of a Stone Cold copycat but I still enjoy him. His matches and the angles they put him in are often the highlight of the week. Plus it is always great when Uncle Moonman shows up.

 

Sort of half and half here with Ol' Mancer. Definitely share the love. His feuds with Jimmy Havoc and The Dynasty have been pure wrestling fun. No doubt about it.

 

But I gotta take issue with the Stone Cold comparison. Just don't see it. I look at Mance I see more a Dick Murdoch. A Dirty Dick Slater. Maybe a better looking Bunkhouse Buck. Nothing about him really reminds me of Stone Cold. But then, maybe I'm not the best judge either. For many years "Stone Cold" struck me as a pale imitation in his own right. I always liked and respected the skills of Austin the man but in his prime I could never take "Stone Cold" seriously. It always felt like he was some city dude trying too hard to playact at being the badass than actually being one. Heck for the war with Mr. McMahon, I was always on Vinnie's side because "Stone Cold" felt so over the top and out of proportion.

 

Whereas with Mancer, I can actually believe he is the good ole country boy fighting for the people, swigging his light beers and yada yada. If you're gonna sell me Warner as an Austin copycat, then you'd better be telling me that Austin invented the role and Warner's been perfecting it. Because Mance has always felt more authentic than "Stone Cold" ever did in his prime. Mance has layers to him such as Uncle Moonman to ground him that the single note feeling "Stone Cold" never did.

 

To be fair to Austin, I have come to accept him as Stone Cold over the years. But that's mostly been because he kept running with the role after he ceased to be relevant and seemingly faked it until he made it. And looking back in retrospect, I have caught on to elements of Austin's backstory that would have made "Stone Cold" easier to swallow had they been pointed out to me in the moment. Pre-WWE experiences that would have informed the Stone Cold attitude I was too blind to consider in the moment. But yeah. My perspective on Stone Cold probably isn't the best because of how long it took me to buy in.

 

The Dynasty. They are just great. I wish MJF would have stayed but the others are still highly entertaining. They have not really done much with Gino Medina yet so I really do not have an opinion of him. But the other two are great heels. I could see Hammerstone having a face run down the road. Holliday is great as the snobbish heel, I love it when he refers to the fans as consumers.

 

Heck yeah. Love The Dynasty. I'll watch MJF in AEW and find myself missing Holiday and Hammerstone at his side like they would be in MLW. But now that MJF's been run out of MLW, I have to say Hammerstone's my favorite. I love how he can be all big and bad and be so serious about competition and yet at the same time so loosey goosey in segments like the Lifestyles Of the Rich And Famous parody. Such a great balance that Hammerstone has. Put him in a WWE type that doesn't think it knows Entertainment better than the fans do and I can easily see him as champion. Perhaps even this generation's Hulk Hogan.

 

And so as not to give Holiday short shrift, I share your opinion on him. Heck, perhaps the only better role/performer fit on the entire roster may be the aforementioned Jordan Oliver. Holiday has the rich snob bit down cold. I might have to really think hard and dip back into prior eras to find one quite as good.

 

She's not a wrestler but I really like Alicia Atout. First off she is absolutely beautiful, but beyond that I think she does a great job as a backstage correspondent. I have been a fan of her since I first saw her on YouTube and it is great to see her working for MLW.

 

Will definitely agree with you about Alicia being easy on the eyes but I'm not quite as big a fan of her as backstage intervewer. She always feels a little bit uncomfortable and out of her element in that role. Maybe that ease off with time but at the moment, I'd prefer someone else backstage.

[BHK1978]

Disagree with you on Oliver. I love the guy. To my mind, he's the guy that really makes Injustice sing as a gimmick rather than just being another bit. Physically you aren't wrong. But then, I've always found being "a credible threat" a bit overrated in wrestling. If the guy were being presented as a brawler or a Mr. Olympia candidate then I'd be right there with you. But the guy is portraying a whiny little punk who happens to be a speed merchant. As such, who cares if he's imposing or not? He's perfect for the role he's given.

 

If anybody feels like they need to be out of Injustice, it's Kotto. Good talent don't get me wrong. But I don't see the fit. Myron Reed's place is obvious. He's been with the group since Rich Swann started it up. With Jordan Oliver, it's just his (in-character) nature.. But Kotto? People loved him and vice versa until the eye injury. Then suddenly he came back and had a hate on for everything. It's never really made any sense. Wish they'd get him out and put someone with a better beef in his place.

 

I think you might have sold me on maybe not disliking him as much. He reminds me a lot of X-Pac, who I hated long before I even knew what X-Pac heat was. But that is the reaction they are trying to get and that means he is doing his job well. Or at least in my case.

 

Because it is usually hard for me to dislike a wrestler based on character alone. I need to read something about how they are in real life in order for me to dislike them. He is managed to get me to dislike him based only on his interviews, which is something.

 

Sort of half and half here with Ol' Mancer. Definitely share the love. His feuds with Jimmy Havoc and The Dynasty have been pure wrestling fun. No doubt about it.

 

But I gotta take issue with the Stone Cold comparison. Just don't see it. I look at Mance I see more a Dick Murdoch. A Dirty Dick Slater. Maybe a better looking Bunkhouse Buck. Nothing about him really reminds me of Stone Cold. But then, maybe I'm not the best judge either. For many years "Stone Cold" struck me as a pale imitation in his own right. I always liked and respected the skills of Austin the man but in his prime I could never take "Stone Cold" seriously. It always felt like he was some city dude trying too hard to playact at being the badass than actually being one. Heck for the war with Mr. McMahon, I was always on Vinnie's side because "Stone Cold" felt so over the top and out of proportion.

 

Whereas with Mancer, I can actually believe he is the good ole country boy fighting for the people, swigging his light beers and yada yada. If you're gonna sell me Warner as an Austin copycat, then you'd better be telling me that Austin invented the role and Warner's been perfecting it. Because Mance has always felt more authentic than "Stone Cold" ever did in his prime. Mance has layers to him such as Uncle Moonman to ground him that the single note feeling "Stone Cold" never did.

 

To be fair to Austin, I have come to accept him as Stone Cold over the years. But that's mostly been because he kept running with the role after he ceased to be relevant and seemingly faked it until he made it. And looking back in retrospect, I have caught on to elements of Austin's backstory that would have made "Stone Cold" easier to swallow had they been pointed out to me in the moment. Pre-WWE experiences that would have informed the Stone Cold attitude I was too blind to consider in the moment. But yeah. My perspective on Stone Cold probably isn't the best because of how long it took me to buy in.

 

I never really saw either Slater or Murdoch when they were younger so I do not have that frame of reference. By the time I saw them they were both near the end of their careers and they would lose more often than they would win. I am not sure if they even got promo time.

 

I am going by the voice which is almost a dead ringer for Stone Cold. Even the way he cuts a promo, he does pauses in an interview the way Steve used to. The whole beer thing is the obvious one.

 

I fully understand not buying Steve as Stone Cold. It was a shock to the system seeing him go from Stunning Steve in WCW to how he was in ECW and then Stone Cold. I was a fan when he was Stunning Steve but really there was not much to him at that time.

 

 

Will definitely agree with you about Alicia being easy on the eyes but I'm not quite as big a fan of her as backstage intervewer. She always feels a little bit uncomfortable and out of her element in that role. Maybe that ease off with time but at the moment, I'd prefer someone else backstage.

 

It could be me finding her attractive has caused me to overlook her faults. Or maybe it is because I have been following her YouTube and so I am actually happy to see her "make it" somewhere. She was with AEW for one show I believe and I was happy for her to be there as well. But I do see where you are saying she comes across as a bit uncomfortable.

[cappyboy]

I think you might have sold me on maybe not disliking him as much. He reminds me a lot of X-Pac, who I hated long before I even knew what X-Pac heat was. But that is the reaction they are trying to get and that means he is doing his job well. Or at least in my case.

 

Because it is usually hard for me to dislike a wrestler based on character alone. I need to read something about how they are in real life in order for me to dislike them. He is managed to get me to dislike him based only on his interviews, which is something.

 

Glad to have been of service. It sounds like we come from far different angles when it comes to how we choose who we like or don't. The last thing I want to know is what a wrestler is like behind the scenes. I've gotten my heart broken too many times this way. From learning how un-Gentlemanly Chris Adams actually was to learning the full extent of the Lex Luger-Miss Elizabeth relationship was to finding out just how broken a man Chris Benoit turned out to be. Unless the wrestler's putting out there themselves in the form of an autobiography or some such, I don't want to to know.

 

I'd much rather appreciate guys for what they do onscreen. For their skills, how they play their roles, and what new dimensions they bring to the table that others can't or don't. I've had too many reminders of how story worlds and the real world differ. I hate having to stop and remember to qualify the fact I'm referring to a performer's in-character perspectives in chats on sites like this.

 

 

 

I never really saw either Slater or Murdoch when they were younger so I do not have that frame of reference. By the time I saw them they were both near the end of their careers and they would lose more often than they would win. I am not sure if they even got promo time.

 

I am going by the voice which is almost a dead ringer for Stone Cold. Even the way he cuts a promo, he does pauses in an interview the way Steve used to. The whole beer thing is the obvious one.

 

I fully understand not buying Steve as Stone Cold. It was a shock to the system seeing him go from Stunning Steve in WCW to how he was in ECW and then Stone Cold. I was a fan when he was Stunning Steve but really there was not much to him at that time.

 

Again, it sounds like we were looking from different angles. I've been looking more macro with comparisons where you've been looking at micro levels and seeing the building blocks I wasn't. I'd never really noticed Austin's verbal tics as Stone Cold to have caught on to the notion Mance might be emulating them. I was always too in a hurry for Stone Cold to shut up to notice the finer points of his speech patterns.

 

And the affinity to light beer always struck me as more akin to Stan Hansen and his chaw than Stone Cold. Austin may have really liked his beers as well but there was nothing halfway with Stone Cold. He never would have specified the light beers the way Mancer does. Not to mention that beer and rednecks are just an SAT level pairing to begin with. It's not like that was new to Stone Cold. He just emphasized it more than most.

 

Still, with the evidence you've cited and the explanation of how it applies, you are probably right about Austin being an influence on Mancer. Given when today's talent would have caught the bug, it's far more likely they'd draw intentionally from Stone Cold than Murdoch or Hansen

[BHK1978]

I watched a little bit of the Mance Warner episode (Mance might be my favorite wrestler in MLW and I am not even sure why that is the case. He's just awesome) the other day and they had Salina de la Renta on it and it got me wondering what happened to her. The last time I remember seeing her was at the pay-per-view when she was driven through the table by LA Park. She sort of just disappeared after that.

 

Which is a shame because I thought she was fantastic. She was sexy, she was good on the microphone, she was just a good manager. Though I will say this when I found out she was a believer in the earth being flat her hotness factor did drop down a little. Come on this isn't 1450, we do know the earth is round.

[Kijar]

Just wanted to drop in and say I have similar sentiments about Jordan Oliver as cappyboy.. Sure this could've been another by the numbers LAX type thug gimmick, but Oliver is the guy that brings it to life for me because.. I've met that kind of guy more times than I can count and he captures that energy and awfully, obnoxious, annoying essence with ease. He is a natural. I ignore the body type as well because its wrasslin' and all three guys are pretty small so he doesn't stand out in that sense. Injustice was one of those things where, at first glance, I thought they'd be the definite "skip this segment" guys but now.. I bop to their theme, I watch the entirety of their matches, and I'm glued to their promos.. they are very established characters wherein MLW has only a handful of those that really seem comfortable in their own skin.

 

Dynasty would be another group where everyone fits in just right.

 

AJ Kirsch is a great commentator, loved the guy since Steve Austin Tough Enough.

 

I, sadly, can't get invested in Mance Warner no matter how hard I try. I've never really been one for the redneck gimmicks anyways.. If I'd never heard an ROH crowd pop for the Briscoes, I probably wouldn't even like them either.. Obviously Stone Cold is a league above everyone, but.. what is it about Mance that should get me to stop skipping his stuff? I don't get it, he is clearly talented and over for good reason at this point.

 

Harry Smith and Brian Pillman Jr. are the guys that I see as underutilized, as those are two guys I'd have main eventing every show.

 

I hear you about Gotch.. I want to like the guy because I enjoyed Vaudevillains but I don't take him seriously as part of Contra. Can't handle it.

 

I'm tired of Konnan on screen, I feel like I've seen the guy in every frickin' wrestling company by now

 

I have recently fallen behind a bit on their programming, as I watch just about all the wrestling I can, so sometimes I forget to follow various promotions. Is the Mance episode going to get me hooked on him as a character? I loved the La Parka one and want one for Low-Ki now.

[BHK1978]

MLW has not been the same since it came back. I truly think it is down to the lack of an audience. I still enjoy it but it just really lacks something without an audience.

 

Though I do have to say the last episode was good in an over the top manner. Also, Dan Lambert was actually pretty good on commentary. I would actually like it if they used him over Saint Laurent. It would never happen.

[cappyboy]

MLW has not been the same since it came back. I truly think it is down to the lack of an audience. I still enjoy it but it just really lacks something without an audience.

 

Though I do have to say the last episode was good in an over the top manner. Also, Dan Lambert was actually pretty good on commentary. I would actually like it if they used him over Saint Laurent. It would never happen.

 

Certainly with you about the lack of an audience. Some promotions have done well with it. MLW is one that has not. Action's as good as ever but it does feel like the shows would be better with the energy a crowd can bring.

 

Also with you on Saint Laurent. Have certainly heard better heel commentators with him. If they want a guy as lightly known as that as the color guy, I wish they'd poach Ted McNaylor from OVW. Ted does a great job balancing astute observations with heel bias. Saint Laurent feels a little too pat. Too Central Casting to really react to him the way I'm meant to.

[BHK1978]

Certainly with you about the lack of an audience. Some promotions have done well with it. MLW is one that has not. Action's as good as ever but it does feel like the shows would be better with the energy a crowd can bring.

 

Also with you on Saint Laurent. Have certainly heard better heel commentators with him. If they want a guy as lightly known as that as the color guy, I wish they'd poach Ted McNaylor from OVW. Ted does a great job balancing astute observations with heel bias. Saint Laurent feels a little too pat. Too Central Casting to really react to him the way I'm meant to.

 

This is odd to say but who is Saint Laurent? That name sounds like a French-Canadian last name. Is it his first and last name? Is it just his last name?

 

They didn't even introduce the guy, he just popped up when they came back and they made it seem like we should know or have known who this guy was all along.

[cappyboy]

This is odd to say but who is Saint Laurent? That name sounds like a French-Canadian last name. Is it his first and last name? Is it just his last name?

 

They didn't even introduce the guy, he just popped up when they came back and they made it seem like we should know or have known who this guy was all along.

 

Agreed. I don't have any more idea than you do. And yet it feels like we're all supposed to know. It kind of reminds me of early AEW and moments like Excalibur losing his mind over the debut of Butcher & Blade. Just makes me feel behind the grind and rather clueless. Which prior to the pandemic break was something MLW was very adept at avoiding. I get why we can't have prior MLW color guys like Tony Schiavone and Jim Cornette in that chair. Tony too busy in AEW and Jim divisive because of the NWA situation. But surely there are more relatable, less cookie cutter commentators out there than Saint Laurent.

[Blodyxe]

Since you guys have mentioned commentary, I am so done with Rich Bocchini and his 'OH COME ON' Michael Cole-esque delivery. Granted he is forced to say it very often because of all the overbooking MLW is doing lately.

 

MLW is the only show I follow right now, since it is just one hour long, but man they had some disappointing shows lately. Laredo Kid/Lio Rush title match was very underwhelming, as is Laredo's booking in general. Lots of inconsistencies and weird booking decisions too, shame really.

 

And I'm kinda over the "Azteca Underground" story already, they are teasing it for too long and as the saying goes, 'do your thing or get off the potty'.

 

Like the people involved in the shows much more than the final product. Sorry if I sound too negative, I just think they can do much better, as seen with the Opera Cup.

[BHK1978]

I wanted to come on here to talk about that mess of a match for the Tag Team Championships between the Parks and Contra Unit. I know it should not bother me but the officiating in that match was horrible. It was like an AEW tag team match. People were just randomly entering into the ring without being tagged and they were considered to be the legal man. There were constant double team moves and the ref did hardly anything to stop it.

 

Yes wrestling is fake but to quote President Biden, "Come on man". It might be fake but the officials should officiate as if it is real. That is unless it was supposed to be under Lucha rules where they don't have to tag. But I don't recall anyone ever saying that.

 

 

 

MLW is the only show I follow right now, since it is just one hour long, but man they had some disappointing shows lately. Laredo Kid/Lio Rush title match was very underwhelming, as is Laredo's booking in general. Lots of inconsistencies and weird booking decisions too, shame really.

 

I actually fell asleep during that match. Not because I was bored, I just have a terrible sleep pattern at the moment. But I do agree with you in regards to Laredo's booking. They treat him like a jobber more often than not.

 

He's from AAA and if I were them I would pull him off MLW shows. I mean MLW obviously doesn't know how to use him so why destroy his image any further?

 

Like the people involved in the shows much more than the final product. Sorry if I sound too negative, I just think they can do much better, as seen with the Opera Cup.

 

This isn't the AEW thread, in this thread, you are allowed to talk negatively about the product without anyone telling you you're wrong or if you don't like it don't watch.

 

But I agree, like I said before since they came back the shows have been very lackluster. I am not sure if it is the lack of crowd, the pumped-in crowd noise, bad/uninteresting booking. Or a combination of all of it. But there is something lacking. I did like this year's Opera Cup as well though.

 

I think one thing that hurt them was a lot of talent leaving. It is to be expected with them being a small promotion and all but it has hurt them a lot. Plus they seem to feature the same group of wrestlers week after week.

 

One angle that really sticks out as bad booking to me is the whole TJP feuding with Bu Ku Dao. If they spent more time as a team or showing the two of them together. Then when TJP turned on him it would have meant more. Instead, they paired them on the show a few times and then had TJP turn on him. Had they built it up more, I would have had a vested interest in the split but because they did a rush job on it, the split meant nothing to me.

[Kijar]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47513" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I wanted to come on here to talk about that mess of a match for the Tag Team Championships between the Parks and Contra Unit. I know it should not bother me but the officiating in that match was horrible. It was like an AEW tag team match. People were just randomly entering into the ring without being tagged and they were considered to be the legal man. There were constant double team moves and the ref did hardly anything to stop it.<p> </p><p> Yes wrestling is fake but to quote President Biden, "Come on man". It might be fake but the officials should officiate as if it is real. That is unless it was supposed to be under Lucha rules where they don't have to tag. But I don't recall anyone ever saying that. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I actually fell asleep during that match. Not because I was bored, I just have a terrible sleep pattern at the moment. But I do agree with you in regards to Laredo's booking. They treat him like a jobber more often than not. </p><p> </p><p> He's from AAA and if I were them I would pull him off MLW shows. I mean MLW obviously doesn't know how to use him so why destroy his image any further?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> This isn't the AEW thread, in this thread, you are allowed to talk negatively about the product without anyone telling you you're wrong or if you don't like it don't watch.<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> But I agree, like I said before since they came back the shows have been very lackluster. I am not sure if it is the lack of crowd, the pumped-in crowd noise, bad/uninteresting booking. Or a combination of all of it. But there is something lacking. I did like this year's Opera Cup as well though. </p><p> </p><p> I think one thing that hurt them was a lot of talent leaving. It is to be expected with them being a small promotion and all but it has hurt them a lot. Plus they seem to feature the same group of wrestlers week after week.</p><p> </p><p> One angle that really sticks out as bad booking to me is the whole TJP feuding with Bu Ku Dao. If they spent more time as a team or showing the two of them together. Then when TJP turned on him it would have meant more. Instead, they paired them on the show a few times and then had TJP turn on him. Had they built it up more, I would have had a vested interest in the split but because they did a rush job on it, the split meant nothing to me.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Gotta echo you guys on Laredo Kid, he just strikes me as the Sin Cara character, here to wrestle in a mask and not bug anyone. He is so much better than that. <img alt=":confused:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Lol we only criticize things here. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> I did like Jordan Oliver getting that title shot, even if we knew he wasn't going to win.. those are great matches for Fatu, who isn't going to lose regardless. Just let someone else go at them and prove themselves. Tankman needs a bit more build, but I feel that he might actually be the one to dethrone him.</p><p> </p><p> As far as my guy TJP goes, they probably just knew it'd be impossible to keep the guy as a face without any screaming teenage girls in the crowd. No one else enjoys him, and he will get nothing but heat. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Now he can just be himself out there haha They pulled the trigger on the turn way too fast, but it tells me moreso that they won't have a lot for his Bu Ku Dao after this.. maybe I'm wrong, but they don't even seem to care to put that backstory in place for him as much. I think he was just a vessel in this case.</p><p> </p><p> Not too many other positives. Who are we thinking dethrone Los Parks? They surely can't hold those titles long.</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Kijar" data-cite="Kijar" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47513" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not too many other positives. Who are we thinking dethrone Los Parks? They surely can't hold those titles long.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's a good question and I am not sure who they could have win the titles. I honestly thought Contra Unit was going to win on the last show but that was wrong.</p><p> </p><p> Maybe Team Filthy? I mean I do not like either of those guys but I guess they could go with them.</p>

[Kijar]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47513" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's a good question and I am not sure who they could have win the titles. I honestly thought Contra Unit was going to win on the last show but that was wrong.<p> </p><p> Maybe Team Filthy? I mean I do like either of those guys but I guess they could go with them.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Good call... If not, I'm thinking maybe Oliver and Reed? <img alt=":confused:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Blodyxe]

I wanted to come on here to talk about that mess of a match for the Tag Team Championships between the Parks and Contra Unit. I know it should not bother me but the officiating in that match was horrible. It was like an AEW tag team match. People were just randomly entering into the ring without being tagged and they were considered to be the legal man. There were constant double team moves and the ref did hardly anything to stop it.

 

Yes wrestling is fake but to quote President Biden, "Come on man". It might be fake but the officials should officiate as if it is real. That is unless it was supposed to be under Lucha rules where they don't have to tag. But I don't recall anyone ever saying that.

 

MLW tag team matches are horrid lately. The title change with Von Erichs and Parks with Lawlor as ref was such a mess Vince Russo himself would go for a smoke... The NBA ref story in Savio/Holliday was a pretty cool touch, but sheesh that match and finish stunk. They need to step their game up, for real.

 

I actually fell asleep during that match. Not because I was bored, I just have a terrible sleep pattern at the moment. But I do agree with you in regards to Laredo's booking. They treat him like a jobber more often than not.

 

He's from AAA and if I were them I would pull him off MLW shows. I mean MLW obviously doesn't know how to use him so why destroy his image any further?

 

I was actually hyped for it, and had a lot of expectations since Lio/Reed was pretty good. But they taped like 4 matches at once, so they were probably too tired to do a good match.

 

AAA and MLW can't even bother to clear up the situation on who is the AAA Cruiserweight champion, that's laughable. I know Mexico treats titles like accessories, but how lazy can you be for that? Speaking of bad booking, why are they doing Zenshi so dirty? The guy is pretty good, but can't win a thing.

 

 

This isn't the AEW thread, in this thread, you are allowed to talk negatively about the product without anyone telling you you're wrong or if you don't like it don't watch.

 

But I agree, like I said before since they came back the shows have been very lackluster. I am not sure if it is the lack of crowd, the pumped-in crowd noise, bad/uninteresting booking. Or a combination of all of it. But there is something lacking. I did like this year's Opera Cup as well though.

 

I think one thing that hurt them was a lot of talent leaving. It is to be expected with them being a small promotion and all but it has hurt them a lot. Plus they seem to feature the same group of wrestlers week after week.

 

One angle that really sticks out as bad booking to me is the whole TJP feuding with Bu Ku Dao. If they spent more time as a team or showing the two of them together. Then when TJP turned on him it would have meant more. Instead, they paired them on the show a few times and then had TJP turn on him. Had they built it up more, I would have had a vested interest in the split but because they did a rush job on it, the split meant nothing to me.

 

Yep, Opera Cup was pretty good. Tom Lawlor's Filthy Island though... the only good thing is guys shooting jokes, but that's not enough to cover for that show.

 

I think they're doing ok with talent, although sure, they lost a lot of great performers. But they still have Reed, Fatu, Hammer, Lawlor, Lio, Low-Ki, Parka and Muertes, ACH and TJP, plus Zenshi. They could do so much better with what they already have.

 

Scratched my head when that Bu Ku Dao guy beat La Parka's son that one time. I don't think he's bad, but Perkins should feud with someone bigger. The whole story is lazy indeed, I don't think it will help the younger guy that much. If TJP loses, his status is shot, if he wins - he does not gain anything. Can't go for tag titles, heelturn rules out him challenging for Middleweight title, and he has no chance against Fatu. Would probably combine it with another meh story of Gringo Loco/Gino Medina, do some tag matches between them just so they woudln't take too much time separately.

 

Gotta echo you guys on Laredo Kid, he just strikes me as the Sin Cara character, here to wrestle in a mask and not bug anyone. He is so much better than that.

 

Lol we only criticize things here.

 

I did like Jordan Oliver getting that title shot, even if we knew he wasn't going to win.. those are great matches for Fatu, who isn't going to lose regardless. Just let someone else go at them and prove themselves. Tankman needs a bit more build, but I feel that he might actually be the one to dethrone him.

 

As far as my guy TJP goes, they probably just knew it'd be impossible to keep the guy as a face without any screaming teenage girls in the crowd. No one else enjoys him, and he will get nothing but heat. Now he can just be himself out there haha They pulled the trigger on the turn way too fast, but it tells me moreso that they won't have a lot for his Bu Ku Dao after this.. maybe I'm wrong, but they don't even seem to care to put that backstory in place for him as much. I think he was just a vessel in this case.

 

Not too many other positives. Who are we thinking dethrone Los Parks? They surely can't hold those titles long.

 

People thought Laredo would get a breakthrough after wrestling Omega at Triplemania, but he's back where he has been for most of his career. Looks like he himself is not doing much to further his career.

 

On the positives, I liked Tankman helping The Injustice, he could be a good fit for that group. He didn't show enough in the ring for my liking, but he looks like a threat already.

 

I think Hammer and Holliday are getting the titles off them after. Hammerstone defends the title against Park this week, so perhaps they win the tag belts some time soon, and a guy from Contra gets an Openweight title? I'm not feeling Mads Kruger though, that Bakalei Brawl was the shits. Gotch is just a lukewarm body, and Daivari is, well, Daivari. At this point I wouldn't mind Fatu becoming a double champ... but Hammer has to win the main title when he's fully established as a babyface.

 

Funny how we went with three different combinations, maybe MLW's tag division is not that bad after all

[Blodyxe]

Not a bad episode this week, clears up some things on the challengers.

 

Like the addition of Tankman to The Injustice, but can't see him winning the title just yet. Same goes to Myron and Jordan, but I will pull for them.

 

Also looks like Mil will be the one to take the title off Hammer, solid choice.

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blodyxe" data-cite="Blodyxe" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47513" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not a bad episode this week, clears up some things on the challengers.<p> </p><p> Like the addition of Tankman to The Injustice, but can't see him winning the title just yet. Same goes to Myron and Jordan, but I will pull for them.</p><p> </p><p> Also looks like Mil will be the one to take the title off Hammer, solid choice.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree it was not that bad.</p><p> </p><p> I think Hammerstone will lose to Mil as you said and then maybe he is the one to beat Fatu. </p><p> </p><p> I wonder why they listed Brian Pillman Jr. in their top five for Middleweights. I thought he was exclusive to AEW now. I mean that list was trash anyway because they had Laredo Kid ranked so high and the dude loses every single week.</p><p> </p><p> Also, they are doing a terrible job telling us the audience who are the fan favorites and who are the heels. Injustice and Tankman are clear faces now and Contra Unit are heels. But what the hell is the Dynasty supposed to be? Richard seems to be a heel but Hammerstone seems to be a face or on the cusp of being a face. Los Parks are sometimes heels but they are sometimes treated as faces. Gino Medina was a face when he split with the Dynasty now he is a heel, yet he is also feuding with a heel in Richard Holliday. I just don't get what is happening.</p><p> </p><p> Then you have the whole Los Parks/Salina De La Renta thing. After the PPV I thought she said she was no longer managing them. Then during the lockdown of the promotion she was helping Contra take over the company. Now she is back managing the Parks and she is no longer helping Contra.</p><p> </p><p> I need one of those boards that have all of the red strings attached to various pictures in order to understand what the hell is going on.</p>

[Blodyxe]

I agree it was not that bad.

 

I think Hammerstone will lose to Mil as you said and then maybe he is the one to beat Fatu.

 

I wonder why they listed Brian Pillman Jr. in their top five for Middleweights. I thought he was exclusive to AEW now. I mean that list was trash anyway because they had Laredo Kid ranked so high and the dude loses every single week.

 

Also, they are doing a terrible job telling us the audience who are the fan favorites and who are the heels. Injustice and Tankman are clear faces now and Contra Unit are heels. But what the hell is the Dynasty supposed to be? Richard seems to be a heel but Hammerstone seems to be a face or on the cusp of being a face. Los Parks are sometimes heels but they are sometimes treated as faces. Gino Medina was a face when he split with the Dynasty now he is a heel, yet he is also feuding with a heel in Richard Holliday. I just don't get what is happening.

 

Then you have the whole Los Parks/Salina De La Renta thing. After the PPV I thought she said she was no longer managing them. Then during the lockdown of the promotion she was helping Contra take over the company. Now she is back managing the Parks and she is no longer helping Contra.

 

I need one of those boards that have all of the red strings attached to various pictures in order to understand what the hell is going on.

 

Those lists are comical sometimes. Almost no legitimacy in them, which is funny given how they use UFC-style graphics and tale of the tape stuff. That could have been their distinction, but the booking is too wild for them to make sense. I also thought that Pillman was done, maybe they just made a mistake? And also what use do those rankings have if Lio Rush "tapes a contract to the wall" to find his new opponent?

 

I somewhat agree about the dispositions - it's all very random. Perhaps they opt for a bit of "elements of gray" characters? Holliday and Hammer are too entertaining to be heels, I guess, so they're quasi-faces now. Then again, Holliday just recently brought in the crooked NBA ref to screw Savio, so yeah... I don't know either.

 

I guess Salina thing can be explained, as Parks are a part of Azteca Underground and she's working for a very mysterious El Jefe after losing Promociones Dorado.

 

Perhaps no such board exists Lawlor won the Opera Cup and at least two guys have challenged Fatu before him. I have TEW saves on the side with more continuity

[cappyboy]

<p>Certainly can't deny that the booking of MLW has seemed all over the place since returning. Take the middleweight title sitch. I can't say I was totally surprised to see Myron Reed lose it. That felt like it was coming for sure. But to give it to a guy just coming in the door like Lio Rush? And then for Rush to be rather inivisible since? Yeah. That is a way to go. Doesn't seem like a very good one but it is an option.</p><p> </p><p>

Kind of like the idea behind the Gino Medina/Gringo Loco beef. Can't think of another time I've ever seen cultural appropriation used as the basis for a feud. And given the extra layer of Gino's familial connection to the term "Gringo Loco" it feels all the more organic. But to be doing this with Gino when the deal with Richard Holiday has yet to be properly resolved? Seems like this feud could have waited until after the Dynasty fallout had settled.</p><p> </p><p>

And speaking of The Dynasty, what even are they anymore? MJF is long gone. Hammerstone has evolved beyond the group. Attempts to expand the ranks like Grogan and Gino Medina were failures. And Holiday seems to have gone soft. The guy can still be a bit shady as the Tim Donaghy hiring showed. But at the same time, every time the Dynastic Coffee merch promo comes on, he feels almost like a parody of his former self. It may be time to either end the Dynasty or reformulate it.</p><p> </p><p>

Or Contra. That group really seems to be showing its age. It feels like Jacob Fatu is still champion primarily because MLW is so weak at the top these days. But beyond that, Gotch is often an afterthought. Mads Kruger hasn' really been that interesting. Daivari's alright but feels like he's trying to get in at the wrong end. Really feels like it's time for Contra to fall apart but there really isn't anyone that can kill it off.</p><p> </p><p>

And I get why they resigned ACH. But did they really need to put him with the Von Erichs just because all three are from Texas? Having Ross and Marshall on my TV screen has been some serious wrestling comfort food for me. Loved their dad and uncles back in the day and had lost track of the male Von Erichs terribly before they arrived in MLW. But ACH? If there's one man in all of wrestling I'm burnt out on, that I would happily never see again, it's ACH. And that doesn't even have to do with the WWE stuff. Although that certainly didn't help. I was already getting bored of the guy before he left Ring of Honor. I certainly wouldn't say ACH is a poor talent. I understand how I could be in the minority. In a very distinct minority even. For some, his considerable athleticism would be enough. He just strikes me as a very boring personality. He's always projected himself the same when I've seen him. Never seems to grow or evolve or really offer more than the athletic prowess. Dude just can't seem to project himself in a way that isn't a broken record.</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blodyxe" data-cite="Blodyxe" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47513" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have TEW saves on the side with more continuity <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not much to say but this comment did make me laugh because it is so true. I can book TEW better than some of the crap they put out.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="cappyboy" data-cite="cappyboy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47513" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Certainly can't deny that the booking of MLW has seemed all over the place since returning. Take the middleweight title sitch. I can't say I was totally surprised to see Myron Reed lose it. That felt like it was coming for sure. But to give it to a guy just coming in the door like Lio Rush? And then for Rush to be rather inivisible since? Yeah. That is a way to go. Doesn't seem like a very good one but it is an option.<p> </p><p> Kind of like the idea behind the Gino Medina/Gringo Loco beef. Can't think of another time I've ever seen cultural appropriation used as the basis for a feud. And given the extra layer of Gino's familial connection to the term "Gringo Loco" it feels all the more organic. But to be doing this with Gino when the deal with Richard Holiday has yet to be properly resolved? Seems like this feud could have waited until after the Dynasty fallout had settled.</p><p> </p><p> And speaking of The Dynasty, what even are they anymore? MJF is long gone. Hammerstone has evolved beyond the group. Attempts to expand the ranks like Grogan and Gino Medina were failures. And Holiday seems to have gone soft. The guy can still be a bit shady as the Tim Donaghy hiring showed. But at the same time, every time the Dynastic Coffee merch promo comes on, he feels almost like a parody of his former self. It may be time to either end the Dynasty or reformulate it.</p><p> </p><p> Or Contra. That group really seems to be showing its age. It feels like Jacob Fatu is still champion primarily because MLW is so weak at the top these days. But beyond that, Gotch is often an afterthought. Mads Kruger hasn' really been that interesting. Daivari's alright but feels like he's trying to get in at the wrong end. Really feels like it's time for Contra to fall apart but there really isn't anyone that can kill it off.</p><p> </p><p> And I get why they resigned ACH. But did they really need to put him with the Von Erichs just because all three are from Texas? Having Ross and Marshall on my TV screen has been some serious wrestling comfort food for me. Loved their dad and uncles back in the day and had lost track of the male Von Erichs terribly before they arrived in MLW. But ACH? If there's one man in all of wrestling I'm burnt out on, that I would happily never see again, it's ACH. And that doesn't even have to do with the WWE stuff. Although that certainly didn't help. I was already getting bored of the guy before he left Ring of Honor. I certainly wouldn't say ACH is a poor talent. I understand how I could be in the minority. In a very distinct minority even. For some, his considerable athleticism would be enough. He just strikes me as a very boring personality. He's always projected himself the same when I've seen him. Never seems to grow or evolve or really offer more than the athletic prowess. Dude just can't seem to project himself in a way that isn't a broken record.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Lio was on the MTV reality show The Challenge and it was either the week he won the title or a week later he quit the show because he missed his family and the show was being taped in Iceland. Now I do not begrudge him for leaving the show, I just found the timing funny that he wins two championships but he quits a reality show.</p><p> </p><p> Those Dynastic Coffee merch promo's come across like bad comedy. The sort of stuff you would see on modern-day SNL. I agree that the Dynasty should probably be split. MJF was the glue that held it together and with him gone, they just don't seem to be important as a group or a duo, if you vill (Had to quote Dusty there).</p><p> </p><p> The booking of that Grogan guy was awful as well. He joins the group and is with them for like two or three weeks. Then he turns on them and then he disappears from the promotion. Only to be repurposed as Mads Kruger.</p><p> </p><p> Speaking of Mads, oh boy was that Bakalei Brawl pure and utter garbage. That was hands down one of the worst parking lot brawls I have ever watched. There was one in TNA a few months ago that rivaled it and I am blanking on who was in the TNA one. I think it was Rhino and someone else.</p>

[Blodyxe]

Certainly can't deny that the booking of MLW has seemed all over the place since returning. Take the middleweight title sitch. I can't say I was totally surprised to see Myron Reed lose it. That felt like it was coming for sure. But to give it to a guy just coming in the door like Lio Rush? And then for Rush to be rather inivisible since? Yeah. That is a way to go. Doesn't seem like a very good one but it is an option.

 

Kind of like the idea behind the Gino Medina/Gringo Loco beef. Can't think of another time I've ever seen cultural appropriation used as the basis for a feud. And given the extra layer of Gino's familial connection to the term "Gringo Loco" it feels all the more organic. But to be doing this with Gino when the deal with Richard Holiday has yet to be properly resolved? Seems like this feud could have waited until after the Dynasty fallout had settled.

 

And speaking of The Dynasty, what even are they anymore? MJF is long gone. Hammerstone has evolved beyond the group. Attempts to expand the ranks like Grogan and Gino Medina were failures. And Holiday seems to have gone soft. The guy can still be a bit shady as the Tim Donaghy hiring showed. But at the same time, every time the Dynastic Coffee merch promo comes on, he feels almost like a parody of his former self. It may be time to either end the Dynasty or reformulate it.

 

Or Contra. That group really seems to be showing its age. It feels like Jacob Fatu is still champion primarily because MLW is so weak at the top these days. But beyond that, Gotch is often an afterthought. Mads Kruger hasn' really been that interesting. Daivari's alright but feels like he's trying to get in at the wrong end. Really feels like it's time for Contra to fall apart but there really isn't anyone that can kill it off.

 

And I get why they resigned ACH. But did they really need to put him with the Von Erichs just because all three are from Texas? Having Ross and Marshall on my TV screen has been some serious wrestling comfort food for me. Loved their dad and uncles back in the day and had lost track of the male Von Erichs terribly before they arrived in MLW. But ACH? If there's one man in all of wrestling I'm burnt out on, that I would happily never see again, it's ACH. And that doesn't even have to do with the WWE stuff. Although that certainly didn't help. I was already getting bored of the guy before he left Ring of Honor. I certainly wouldn't say ACH is a poor talent. I understand how I could be in the minority. In a very distinct minority even. For some, his considerable athleticism would be enough. He just strikes me as a very boring personality. He's always projected himself the same when I've seen him. Never seems to grow or evolve or really offer more than the athletic prowess. Dude just can't seem to project himself in a way that isn't a broken record.

 

It's funny how Lio has had only two matches, and he won titles in both of his appearances. He's obviously quite talented and a good get, but talk about being pushed too hard too early. I hope to see a rematch between them for the title, but Reed's fighting with Contra and challenging Los Parks...

 

There are teasers on Azteca Underground Twitter of a certain celestial luchador... could be a great fixture in the Middleweight division, but would probably get booked similarly to Laredo

 

Completely missed the reason for Loco/Medina feud, so thanks for making it clearer.

 

ACH bulked up a bit, I suppose. That's the biggest change yet

[Kijar]

I've loved ACH ever since seeing him in person in ROH... sorry

Lio was straight up pathetic on the Challenge, from what I've heard. haha

I may be right, I'm thinking Injustice are winning next week. Wonder how they keep Tankman strong in defeat, though.

 

Muertes gonna beat Hammerstone? No foolin'?

[BHK1978]

What I found funny on the last show was when LA Park kept on switching out of the match with his son and on commentary they were saying the ref did not notice it. That made the ref look like a complete moron. How could you not know the difference between father and son?

 

One is massively overweight and the other pretty thin. Way to make your ref look like a complete moron MLW.

[Jaysin]

What I found funny on the last show was when LA Park kept on switching out of the match with his son and on commentary they were saying the ref did not notice it. That made the ref look like a complete moron. How could you not know the difference between father and son?

 

One is massively overweight and the other pretty thin. Way to make your ref look like a complete moron MLW.

 

I feel like this is a problem world wide. Every promotion I watch has moments like this and it's mind boggling. JR makes AEW refs look incompetent all the time.