Killing the Business 2020 MOD FULL RELEASE

[landxx]

In terms of TEW the best way to scale popularity is to take WWE as a base, and think about were a wrestler would be placed on the card if WWE were to sign them, most indy guys come in at midcard/lower midcard and work their way up.

 

If you scaled popularity on viewership, anybody wwe signed end up as jobbers.

Agreed

[joemurphy]

Creating a current day RW mod is an impossible job and I don't envy anyone who takes the time to do it. There is no basis or guideline for modders to create the world off as C-Verse is not even close to the real world. If there was a direct comparison of e.g. we know John Cena is 90 Popularity then it would help scale the rest of the world.

 

With that said, is the popularity rating catered toward a casual fan or the 1% most hardcore fan that goes out of their way to consume and involve themselves in conversations via podcasts, social media etc. We don't know so it's purely left up to interpretation of the mod maker.

 

To end my rambling, there is no guideline for what popularity is so it's going to be completely subjective.

[DeathZone2]

In terms of TEW the best way to scale popularity is to take WWE as a base, and think about were a wrestler would be placed on the card if WWE were to sign them, most indy guys come in at midcard/lower midcard and work their way up.

 

If you scaled popularity on viewership, anybody wwe signed end up as jobbers.

 

Is that not the point of NXT? Put these guys in the public eye, so that when they are called up, people actually know who they are? Ciampa, Gargano, Almas etc. would be jobbers to the audience,without NXT, and then be booked strongly to gain overness.It's an inherent problem with TEW and how it can't simulate actually popularity, because of how the CV has changed that perception.

[forlan]

To give my personal thoughts i would say outside of jericho and the other people in aew that have worked wwe I would have nobody higher than 50.. hearing someone say peter avalon is a 40 shocked me as I'd have him 25 at best...at the top end the special case of aew the elite i would have kenny at 60..cody at about 60-65.. bucks 55 as they are still very much niche.

There is a reason aew compete with the 3rd brand neck and neck and not with the raw or smackdown.. they are not over enough

 

As already mentioned though popularity is subjective to a person although these days wwe has no competition in USA and are way ahead popularity wise and their stars should reflect this.

 

On the topic of older guys they do move the needle for me evidence is goldberg recently etc

[gazwefc83]

Creating a current day RW mod is an impossible job and I don't envy anyone who takes the time to do it. There is no basis or guideline for modders to create the world off as C-Verse is not even close to the real world. If there was a direct comparison of e.g. we know John Cena is 90 Popularity then it would help scale the rest of the world.

 

With that said, is the popularity rating catered toward a casual fan or the 1% most hardcore fan that goes out of their way to consume and involve themselves in conversations via podcasts, social media etc. We don't know so it's purely left up to interpretation of the mod maker.

 

To end my rambling, there is no guideline for what popularity is so it's going to be completely subjective.

 

Agreed, i think if some people took the time to play a mod for 6 or so months in stead of diving straight into the editor and checking every-bodies stats they would see that the mod plays extremely well, nothing out of the ordinary or unrealistic happens based on the popularities set in game.

[NoLegsGaming]

To give my personal thoughts i would say outside of jericho and the other people in aew that have worked wwe I would have nobody higher than 50.. hearing someone say peter avalon is a 40 shocked me as I'd have him 25 at best...at the top end the special case of aew the elite i would have kenny at 60..cody at about 60-65.. bucks 55 as they are still very much niche.

There is a reason aew compete with the 3rd brand neck and neck and not with the raw or smackdown.. they are not over enough

 

As already mentioned though popularity is subjective to a person although these days wwe has no competition in USA and are way ahead popularity wise and their stars should reflect this.

 

On the topic of older guys they do move the needle for me evidence is goldberg recently etc

 

I couldn't agree more, even if you are a Mackem

[DeathZone2]

To give my personal thoughts i would say outside of jericho and the other people in aew that have worked wwe I would have nobody higher than 50.. hearing someone say peter avalon is a 40 shocked me as I'd have him 25 at best...at the top end the special case of aew the elite i would have kenny at 60..cody at about 60-65.. bucks 55 as they are still very much niche.

There is a reason aew compete with the 3rd brand neck and neck and not with the raw or smackdown.. they are not over enough

 

As already mentioned though popularity is subjective to a person although these days wwe has no competition in USA and are way ahead popularity wise and their stars should reflect this.

 

On the topic of older guys they do move the needle for me evidence is goldberg recently etc

 

100% Agree

[tryker2710]

To give my personal thoughts i would say outside of jericho and the other people in aew that have worked wwe I would have nobody higher than 50.. hearing someone say peter avalon is a 40 shocked me as I'd have him 25 at best...at the top end the special case of aew the elite i would have kenny at 60..cody at about 60-65.. bucks 55 as they are still very much niche.

 

 

The Elite guys aren't really niche at all anymore, considering that in the space of 2 years ROH have gone from over 6,000 fans attending an event headlined by Omega vs Cody to pulling three figures on a good day proves how much they can draw, and now they're on national television, with a proper push Omega especially could easily outdraw anything WWE throws at them.

 

And on the NXT point, AEW routinely trounces NXT in viewership unless NXT promotes a Takeover level card on free television or they bring in Stars from Raw and Smackdown. They have entirely different audiences, AEW have over twice as much viewership in that key 18-35 male demographic while NXT only really thrives in the over 50s market.

 

There's a reason The Elite can sell out 11,000 seat arenas and the likes of Hogan and Sting are languishing in the occasional RAW or Smackdown gig.

 

Like I've said, the WWE brand is more popular than any full-time worker there, and the only real needle movers in terms of live attendance which is what I would consider a draw, are the likes of Cena, Rousey, and Lesnar.

[forlan]

The Elite guys aren't really niche at all anymore, considering that in the space of 2 years ROH have gone from over 6,000 fans attending an event headlined by Omega vs Cody to pulling three figures on a good day proves how much they can draw, and now they're on national television, with a proper push Omega especially could easily outdraw anything WWE throws at them.

 

And on the NXT point, AEW routinely trounces NXT in viewership unless NXT promotes a Takeover level card on free television or they bring in Stars from Raw and Smackdown. They have entirely different audiences, AEW have over twice as much viewership in that key 18-35 male demographic while NXT only really thrives in the over 50s market.

 

There's a reason The Elite can sell out 11,000 seat arenas and the likes of Hogan and Sting are languishing in the occasional RAW or Smackdown gig.

 

Like I've said, the WWE brand is more popular than any full-time worker there, and the only real needle movers in terms of live attendance which is what I would consider a draw, are the likes of Cena, Rousey, and Lesnar.

 

With your Elite example you are still talking very low numbers though and I'm not sure what you mean by omega could out draw anything..aew barely beat nxt and their fans just bang on about demos...in tew every viewer is voice equal so that argument cannot be used.

 

Aew doesn't move huge ppv numbers for example and tbh if wwe brought back del rio or somebody the pop would be bigger from the casuals..i think some people overestimate the popularity of the elite to the casual fan.

 

Edit: a hogan or sting q and a could sell out 11,000 seats.. you only have to look at the amount of people go to their public appearance etc

[Taker4455]

The Elite guys aren't really niche at all anymore, considering that in the space of 2 years ROH have gone from over 6,000 fans attending an event headlined by Omega vs Cody to pulling three figures on a good day proves how much they can draw, and now they're on national television, with a proper push Omega especially could easily outdraw anything WWE throws at them.

 

And on the NXT point, AEW routinely trounces NXT in viewership unless NXT promotes a Takeover level card on free television or they bring in Stars from Raw and Smackdown. They have entirely different audiences, AEW have over twice as much viewership in that key 18-35 male demographic while NXT only really thrives in the over 50s market.

 

There's a reason The Elite can sell out 11,000 seat arenas and the likes of Hogan and Sting are languishing in the occasional RAW or Smackdown gig.

 

Like I've said, the WWE brand is more popular than any full-time worker there, and the only real needle movers in terms of live attendance which is what I would consider a draw, are the likes of Cena, Rousey, and Lesnar.

 

This "butts in seats" thing in relation to Hogan feels a bit disingenuos. Hogan is obviously still a huge draw, but given everyone knows he can no longer wrestle it's a bad example. He would be an incredibly over wrestling personality in this game, and yes his popularity should be higher than anyone in the game world.

 

It's a bit like saying that as he wouldn't make the current day Port Vale first team, Pele is somehow less of a draw than the no name they have up top (apologies Vale fans!). It just isn't a coherent argument.

[DeathZone2]

In terms of Hogan, he draws the way he's needed to. TV numbers, like I said 500k tuned in to see him and Flair and immediately tuned out. If that's not being a draw, then what is? A draw brings eyes to the product and that's what Hogan does.

[tryker2710]

My last point on this, because it's just a circular debate of subjective opinions about a wrestling management simulator, is that much fewer people would pay to go to a football match to watch pele talk at half time, than would pay to watch Ronaldo, Messi, or Gareth Bale play for 90 minutes.

[forlan]

My last point on this, because it's just a circular debate of subjective opinions about a wrestling management simulator, is that much fewer people would pay to go to a football match to watch pele talk at half time, than would pay to watch Ronaldo, Messi, or Gareth Bale play for 90 minutes.

 

You cannot equate the elite to those footballers though..if wwe was the Premier league then the elite would be like a Wycombe or Shrewsbury and pele would outdraw them

[Taker4455]

My last point on this, because it's just a circular debate of subjective opinions about a wrestling management simulator, is that much fewer people would pay to go to a football match to watch pele talk at half time, than would pay to watch Ronaldo, Messi, or Gareth Bale play for 90 minutes.

 

And likewise people would switch from Dynamite in droves if Hogan closed NXT with a special announcement. To say otherwise is incredibly blinkered.

[kingbadger]

I agree with what you are saying to a certain degree, but I can't get on board with some of your reasoning, just because somebody has been on TV for years, it does not make them more popular, you are confusing noterity with overness.

 

Also the argument of being on mainstream TV means nothing after a certain level, almost all wrestling is freely available online now and most wrestling fans now have a wider knowledge of those outside of wwe than they have in the past.

 

TEW doesn't distinguish between casual and hardcore fans, therefore I have to base popularity on some sort of scale, I went for TEW 2016s overness descriptors, you can't do that now unfortunately.

 

In terms of providing feedback it would be more helpful if you could post some examples of perceptions that you disagree with rather than looking at the actual numbers.

 

I think you're overestimating how much interest the majority of wrestling fans have outside of WWE. On these forums etc where you have fans so obsessed over a simulator, most will of course have knowledge of the top indie stars and those competing abroad. However the vast majority of US fans are going to be people who simply follow WWE and nothing else. WWE has shaped their company on their viewers being loyal to the product, and given their audience makes up the vast majority of the wrestling fandom, their wrestlers are much more prominent in comparison. Just because most workers have widely available videos etc for the whole wrestling audience to view, doesn't mean the available audience are going to view it.

 

In terms of perceptions, as someone mentioned, ROH have 22 major stars. For instance, Silas Young, Dalton Castle and a few others who have never wrestled in a major promotion are pegged at 55 popularity. I'm not disputing that they are solid workers who, if given the opportunity, could work their way up to a decent position in NXT. However the mod in effect states that they are as well known to wrestling audiences as Bobby Roode, Bobby Lashley, Jinder Mahal etc. That is simply not the case, the latter three have had far more exposure to the vast majority of the wrestling audience over the last 4/5 years simply by being on WWE programming.

 

For instance, if ROH signed Willie Mack to a contract of course this would make a splash to some degree in wrestling circles, he's a good worker for NWA/Impact, is X-Division champion and could occupy a decent sized spot on the roster. But it's nothing out of the ordinary. However now imagine ROH signed one of Roode/Mahal/Lashley - that would be a huge coup and would be massive news having an effect industry wide - how have ROH managed to nab a WWE midcarder? It would be massive news for a company the size of AEW, let alone a company like ROH who have a tiny fraction of the same exposure. Yet in game they're apparently all as popular as one another.

 

At the end of the day there's a reason why Youtube results for the likes of Dalton Castle, Silas Young etc have <100k views yet videos with the likes of Bobby Roode, Lashley etc have >1m views - they're just far more well known and popular to the wrestling audience as a whole.

 

I'm really trying to be constructive, I like your mod but as others have mentioned, the way popularity has been weighted makes it unrealistic.

[TheCed]

I think you're overestimating how much interest the majority of wrestling fans have outside of WWE. On these forums etc where you have fans so obsessed over a simulator, most will of course have knowledge of the top indie stars and those competing abroad. However the vast majority of US fans are going to be people who simply follow WWE and nothing else. WWE has shaped their company on their viewers being loyal to the product, and given their audience makes up the vast majority of the wrestling fandom, their wrestlers are much more prominent in comparison. Just because most workers have widely available videos etc for the whole wrestling audience to view, doesn't mean the available audience are going to view it.

 

In terms of perceptions, as someone mentioned, ROH have 22 major stars. For instance, Silas Young, Dalton Castle and a few others who have never wrestled in a major promotion are pegged at 55 popularity. I'm not disputing that they are solid workers who, if given the opportunity, could work their way up to a decent position in NXT. However the mod in effect states that they are as well known to wrestling audiences as Bobby Roode, Bobby Lashley, Jinder Mahal etc. That is simply not the case, the latter three have had far more exposure to the vast majority of the wrestling audience over the last 4/5 years simply by being on WWE programming.

 

For instance, if ROH signed Willie Mack to a contract of course this would make a splash to some degree in wrestling circles, he's a good worker for NWA/Impact, is X-Division champion and could occupy a decent sized spot on the roster. But it's nothing out of the ordinary. However now imagine ROH signed one of Roode/Mahal/Lashley - that would be a huge coup and would be massive news having an effect industry wide - how have ROH managed to nab a WWE midcarder? It would be massive news for a company the size of AEW, let alone a company like ROH who have a tiny fraction of the same exposure. Yet in game they're apparently all as popular as one another.

 

At the end of the day there's a reason why Youtube results for the likes of Dalton Castle, Silas Young etc have <100k views yet videos with the likes of Bobby Roode, Lashley etc have >1m views - they're just far more well known and popular to the wrestling audience as a whole.

 

I'm really trying to be constructive, I like your mod but as others have mentioned, the way popularity has been weighted makes it unrealistic.

So we could argue that popularity is visibility? How people are able to acknowledge them?

[gazwefc83]

So we could argue that popularity is visibility? How people are able to acknowledge them?

 

Regardless of what some people are saying this is not the case, otherwise popularity would increase the more shows you competed on which is not the case.

 

I could have a major star lose to an unknown in the mainevent of wrestlemania. Judging by some peoples logic that would increase both wrestlers popularity because of how many viewers seen them compete.

 

In TEW that would tank the Major stars popularity.

 

In TEW wrestlers who compete on a major network with huge viewership and lose each week and but on crap matches will loses lots of popularity compared to a wrestler in a smaller promotion who is raking up the wins and putting on good matches, their popularity will sky rocket.

 

In TEW its all about high grades and wins, not solely bigger viewership, the bigger the veiwership the bigger the gains and loses.

 

This is how TEW breaks down popularity.

 

95 - Icon

90 - Huge Star

80 - Star

70 - Draw

65 - Well Known

60 - Recognizable

55 - Regional Star

40 - Regional Level

20 - Unknown

[ubernoob]

People thinking Hogan is still a draw in 2020.

 

What a wild world.

[gazwefc83]

Since Derek B's word is the gospel, let's put this to bed, here is a Derek B direct quote about Hogan's popularity

 

The most important thing is to avoid confusing recognisability with popularity. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Sting etc may all be recognisable but they don't put asses in seats. Their names can't sell out massive arenas any more, which should be represented by them having lower popularity than at their peak. Hogan would probably be at B/B-, Flair about B-/C+ and Sting at about B-. Popular but not huge stars. And remember that in TEW, cult level companies can sign guys around those popularities to written deals... in fact, it's pretty much why the game has them set at that level. And look at the way that Adam has handled veterans in the Cornellverse. Rip Chord is still a big name, but he's down from his peak. Sam Keith wrestled for a long time, but his declining skills and lower match quality sapped his popularity over the years too. For a balanced mod, you need to remember to do this too (which I'll cover more of later).

 

This goes for guys iv seen people mention such as Matt Hardy etc, yes everybody knows who they are but that doesn't translate to popularity in TEW.

 

Look how over Damian Sandow was just before leaving WWE, if I'd set his popularity the way some have suggested he'd be pulling in mega money for Impact and NWA instead of jobbing out like he does in real life.

 

A current example would be Zack Ryder or Curt Hawkins, they are so well known because of their work with WWE but your not going to see either of them as top stars for impact or AEW in real life as some would suggest based on their noterity.

[ViatorLipsia]

Hardly for me as Ultraviolent-Wrestling-Fan to realize, but please remove Danny Havoc from GCW... he died this Night... :(

 

https://lastwordonprowrestling.com/2020/05/31/hardcore-legend-danny-havoc-passes-away/

[Travis]

I wish TEW had a stat/feature for previous peak popularity. Nostalgia pops are very real in wrestling if an older wrestler who used to be super popular and hasn't been seen in a long time suddenly appears. If they were a regular part of the show again they wouldn't have the same affect on attendance like they used to, but the fans that are still there will love it. So at the very least, it could add to the overall rating of the show, or make a segment hotter, or something along those lines, but it shouldn't be used to launch a company into the stratosphere.

[landxx]

Hardly for me as Ultraviolent-Wrestling-Fan to realize, but please remove Danny Havoc from GCW... he died this Night... :(

 

https://lastwordonprowrestling.com/2020/05/31/hardcore-legend-danny-havoc-passes-away/

 

Omg this sucks......

[Donners]

I wish TEW had a stat/feature for previous peak popularity. Nostalgia pops are very real in wrestling if an older wrestler who used to be super popular and hasn't been seen in a long time suddenly appears. If they were a regular part of the show again they wouldn't have the same affect on attendance like they used to, but the fans that are still there will love it. So at the very least, it could add to the overall rating of the show, or make a segment hotter, or something along those lines, but it shouldn't be used to launch a company into the stratosphere.

 

It's a bit strange that so many aspects of the game have expanded over the years, yet overness still remains the extremely narrow concept it has been since the EW days.

 

It doesn't really reflect recognition value (nostalgia pop, credibility, wider attention, etc), promotion-specific popularity (think of the ECW workers who were very popular but only in that specific environment, for instance) and the like.

 

That's more striking in 2020 given the AI seems quite willing to job aging stars into the ground - I saw one watcher game where DX were jobbed into low-60s pop (though that's also partly down to AI still not being able to handle tag teams).

[TheCed]

There's still three or four NJPW events set as tours in the database. Was it your intention? Some of them are Fighting Spirit Unleashed or Royal Quest. Shouldn't they be lesser events according to your explanation in the previous pages?

 

Also, some New Japan events are missing pictures. Royal Quest is one of them, I see it's in the folders but maybe it's been forgotten.

[gazwefc83]

There's still three or four NJPW events set as tours in the database. Was it your intention? Some of them are Fighting Spirit Unleashed or Royal Quest. Shouldn't they be lesser events according to your explanation in the previous pages?

 

Also, some New Japan events are missing pictures. Royal Quest is one of them, I see it's in the folders but maybe it's been forgotten.

 

I needed to set some events as tours to stop the AI creating a weekly TV show, those are the ones i chose.