Slow Build

[EdJames]

Has the slow build gate changed in TEW20?

 

In my game, Jericho has a 90 Psychology, but I'm told that he couldn't perform to a standard required for a slow build. I checked the help guide, but it doesn't seem to mention slow builds.

[EdJames]

Likewise, I have El Phantasmo with 85 stamina, being penalised in the dirt sheet for a lack of stamina in a 15-minute match.

 

The algorithm on this just doesn't feel right.

[EdJames]

Segment was penalised for poor announcing and colour commentary, both of whom are 88/89 respectively and the best possible hires in the game...

[awesomenessofme1]

Segment was penalised for poor announcing and colour commentary, both of whom are 88/89 respectively and the best possible hires in the game...

 

What was the final match rating? Because it would have to be really, really good to get those notes with those skill levels.

[EdJames]

79.

 

But most of the participant's performances were in the 90s.

[EdJames]

Similar story with an announcer penalty.

 

Kenny's performance 93, MJF 69, overall 74 with a penalty for JR's 88 announcing

[Irish Wolf]

<p>So here's the thing. A lot of times we don't know when the calculation of a certain thing happens. So you don't know when it checks against the rating or not. Lets take announcers for a moment.</p><p> </p><p>

At some point in the calculation it checks the announcers stats against the rating of the match. So lets say first it calculate psychology, and in ring skills (brawling ect) and then it calculates announcers. If the claculation up to that point is 85 and your announcers announcing is 87 then you won't take a hit. If its 85 and your announcers are 95 you may even get a boost. But if its 85 and your announcers are 74 it will take a hit.</p><p> </p><p>

So basically if your announcers were 88/89 and you took a hit that means the calculation of the match up to that point was probably in the high 90s. On top of that takes a hit can be almost meaningless. You can lose .1% or even .01% its still a hit and it says so but its not like the hit will be 5% or even 1%. The same goes for everything else it depends on where in the total match calculation it takes place.</p><p> </p><p>

People need to stop fearing "penalized for" very often the penalized for penalties are so minuscule as to be completely unimportant.</p>

[Irish Wolf]

<p>Same thing with slow build. You don't know when the calculation comes into effect. I don't run real world mods they tend to be broken anyway. But I'm running EMLL in the C-Verse and I have Captain Lucha vs La Estrella as my main event. Lucha's got a psychology of 84 and and Estrella's is 72 and I did not get a penalty for slow building a 16 minute match.</p><p> </p><p>

The penalty may not even come just from psychology. It can come from time length too. Its much easier to slow build a 16 minute match than it is a 25 minute match or a 30 minute match. And again what was the rating prior to checking the can he slow build. If it was already really high then you're gonna have a problem. Honestly its much easier to get penalties 0 even if they are small - when you are at a higher level because people expect for from you. This is a constant in real life as well as in the ring. The better you are at something the more you are going to get picked apart for minor failures.</p>

[The Nickman]

People need to stop fearing "penalized for" very often the penalized for penalties are so minuscule as to be completely unimportant.

I was just coming here to say this, people just freak out over every little penalty in this game, it’s ridiculous.

 

You can have Austin vs The Rock in 98 get penalised for announcer and colour even with the best team there is available (JR and the King), that doesn’t mean your announcers are bad, it means your workers are awesome.

 

It’s a good thing, not a bad one. You don’t need to avoid all penalties in this game. Same goes for when it says you need matches to go over 15 minutes to be world class, it doesn’t mean all of your matches need to be greater than 15 minutes, and in fact most of them can still be less than 10.

[Corey]

I was just coming here to say this, people just freak out over every little penalty in this game, it’s ridiculous.

 

You can have Austin vs The Rock in 98 get penalised for announcer and colour even with the best team there is available (JR and the King), that doesn’t mean your announcers are bad, it means your workers are awesome.

 

It’s a good thing, not a bad one. You don’t need to avoid all penalties in this game. Same goes for when it says you need matches to go over 15 minutes to be world class, it doesn’t mean all of your matches need to be greater than 15 minutes, and in fact most of them can still be less than 10.

 

Yep. I do get that the red text creates nasty visual feedback for people but once I learned to accept penalties in context I saw how little they affected the game. World class matches need to be over 15 minutes for my current product but I can still pull a 75 rating for a 6 minute match. Likewise I’ve had 100-rated segments that were “penalised” for poor announcing.

 

I am curious about people getting this Slow Build note because I use Slow Build for many matches and I don’t recall getting any dings for psychology andI’m using it with anybody who has Psychology over 70.

[WCGreyghost]

I routinely use slow build in my main events, sometimes in semi-mains, without any problems....but that's as TCW.

[The Nickman]

I routinely use slow build in my main events, sometimes in semi-mains, without any problems....but that's as TCW.

Yeah, me too. Any match above 15 minutes gets a Slow Build note, usually my Main Event on TV and my big matches at PPVs, and I've never had any drama either.

[Irish Wolf]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="WCGreyghost" data-cite="WCGreyghost" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I routinely use slow build in my main events, sometimes in semi-mains, without any problems....but that's as TCW.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Nickman" data-cite="The Nickman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, me too. Any match above 15 minutes gets a Slow Build note, usually my Main Event on TV and my big matches at PPVs, and I've never had any drama either.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think mostly its because real world mods for the most part are not designed to work with the game. They are almost all broken in some way. Almost all of the "why do I get this penalty" posts are from real world mods. They just are not designed to work correctly with the game.</p>

[Donners]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Apupunchau@optonline" data-cite="Apupunchau@optonline" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> So basically if your announcers were 88/89 and you took a hit that means the calculation of the match up to that point was probably in the high 90s. On top of that takes a hit can be almost meaningless. You can lose .1% or even .01% its still a hit and it says so but its not like the hit will be 5% or even 1%. The same goes for everything else it depends on where in the total match calculation it takes place.</p><p> </p><p> People need to stop fearing "penalized for" very often the penalized for penalties are so minuscule as to be completely unimportant.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> To be fair, if the calculation has gone from high 90s to a final rating of 79 (as OP indicates) they got a pretty big whack from something, so it's reasonable to try to work out what's causing it.</p><p> </p><p> I'm with you on the perils of RW mods, but they're what a substantial portion of players are interested in.</p>

[The Nickman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Apupunchau@optonline" data-cite="Apupunchau@optonline" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think mostly its because real world mods for the most part are not designed to work with the game. They are almost all broken in some way. Almost all of the "why do I get this penalty" posts are from real world mods. They just are not designed to work correctly with the game.</div></blockquote><p> I play almost exclusively Real World mods and I’m not having this problem with 2004.</p>

[Irish Wolf]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Donners" data-cite="Donners" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To be fair, if the calculation has gone from high 90s to a final rating of 79 (as OP indicates) they got a pretty big whack from something, so it's reasonable to try to work out what's causing it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Its probably multiple things. a .5 hit here a 1 hit there. It could also be how his matches are rated. If his matches are rated 60% overness and 40% in ring if the workers overness is only 70 or so then the match is gonna be closer to that. There is so much going on that attributing it to anyone one thing is insane.</p>

[JP317]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Apupunchau@optonline" data-cite="Apupunchau@optonline" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Its probably multiple things. a .5 hit here a 1 hit there. It could also be how his matches are rated. If his matches are rated 60% overness and 40% in ring if the workers overness is only 70 or so then the match is gonna be closer to that. There is so much going on that attributing it to anyone one thing is insane.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I was always under the assumption that the worker's performance took into account how the match is rated. Say you have a great worker that isn't that over and in a perf over pop company they would have a higher worker performance than if it was the other way round, so if the worker was 70 in overness they wouldn't get something as high as 90.</p>

[Jaded]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="JP317" data-cite="JP317" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was always under the assumption that the worker's performance took into account how the match is rated. Say you have a great worker that isn't that over and in a perf over pop company they would have a higher worker performance than if it was the other way round, so if the worker was 70 in overness they wouldn't get something as high as 90.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I’ve always been under this impression too and several of us doing RTG games have performance ratings which seem to back this up, with significant improvements in performance ratings as popularity improves quickly, even with skills not changing that much.</p>

[tormyb]

<p>I can't comment on the slow build penalty, but would be interested in knowing which stats are taken into account when judging a wrestler's ability to slow build.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="EdJames" data-cite="EdJames" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Segment was penalised for poor announcing and colour commentary, both of whom are 88/89 respectively and the best possible hires in the game... <img alt=":mad:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/mad.png.69834f23b9a8bf290d98375f56f1c794.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> In the handbook it says, "An announcing score of 80 or above (after team experience has been applied) can never receive a penalty under any circumstances."</p><p> </p><p> Therefore, it seems likely that, your announcers aren't just being punished for their raw announcing/colour stats, but rather because the team lacks experience announcing together - which is lowering their ability to perform.</p><p> </p><p> If that's right, then once the announce team has been together for long enough to build up their experience, then you should stop getting the announcing penalty.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaded" data-cite="Jaded" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I’ve always been under this impression too and several of us doing RTG games have performance ratings which seem to back this up, with significant improvements in performance ratings as popularity improves quickly, even with skills not changing that much.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This seems to be the case - anecdotally - in my games. Talented unknowns still get lower individual performance ratings than less talented stars.</p>

[Narcizo]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="EdJames" data-cite="EdJames" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50109" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>79. <p> </p><p> But most of the participant's performances were in the 90s.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I got something like this - turned out the huge drop-off was due to the match being set to spectacle when the crowd was too hot rather than the announcing ding. But that was only mentioned in the dirt sheet so it could look like the announcing did the damage if you only read the basic info.</p>