Way too easy to gain pop?

[TheChef]

So, I'm two years into a TCW save and I'm thinking I'm a bit top-heavy in terms of main event talent. I have a roster of 60 wrestlers; 21 are major stars and 8 more are stars. That's just about half the roster. 24 have white hot momentum. 6 of the major stars have 100 pop across the board, a further 10 have pop over 90. Some of these guys I'm only really using as midcarders and more or less 50/50ing them, yet they gain momentum and pop at a crazy rate anyway.

 

I should point out that I'm running weekly events rather than the 4 TV/PPV method because I hate booking filler TV shows leading up to one event; I like everything to 'matter' and feel important. I was under the impression that weekly events were weaker in terms of pop and momentum gain than monthly or annual events but it doesn't seem like this is the case.

 

I have a real issue now when contracts come up for renewal in that even midcard tag guys are now demanding $200,000 per month and creative control. I don't mind paying this and more to the real top stars; Andrews, Wolf, Chord, etc. but Nate Johnson is just taking the piss asking for this. No one wants to put anyone over; guys who were jobbers a year ago are now refusing to lose to new guys so I have no real proper midcard anymore; there are top guys and bottom guys and that's about it.

 

I'm not really sure what to do about it, it seems like the game world is already too far gone with too many stars (many of whom are not really stars) to continue in a realistic manner. I know the pop caps have been tinkered with and weekly events are obviously overpowered so I feel like I'm kind of screwed. I'm not sure I feel up for starting over either, this was supposed to be my one big save that lasted years. Even if I did start over, I'd probably hit the same problem with overpowered events and like I said, I can't book meaningless TV, so what can I do? Maybe stop for a few months to see if the game gets balanced better? Does anyone have the same issues or any advice for me?

[MikeSc]

What I ended up doing is very heavy WWE-style booking on the midcard. Once anybody gets to "Hot" or better momentum i job them until it is warm and their pop sinks pretty low. Then they get wins over lower guys on the card for a bit before getting anything over another guy their level.

 

Also, on major shows their matches all come in at lower times than they ought to to bring ratings down on midcard matches.

 

Some of the losses they will complain, but buying off a guy with a midcard level contract is way, way easier than paying top dollar for everyone.

[chm39]

Dang! I didn't think about that. I thought having lots popular guys meant many main Event matches but, I guess they all would want more money.

[magik]

With which version of the game was this save game started?

 

 

What is your setting for "Natural growth limit"?

[TheChef]

With which version of the game was this save game started?

 

 

What is your setting for "Natural growth limit"?

 

Started in 1.18 - I held off starting a 'proper' save for months waiting for bugs to be fixed and the game to be balanced. At least most of the bugs were fixed...

 

Natural growth limit is on full, so that's not the issue either. I think it's that weekly events are over-powered. I'm not 100% sure but it seems that they give momentum and pop at the same rate as monthly and annual events. If you're running 48 events per year as opposed to 12, workers are gaining four times the pop and momentum. I think weekly events should give a quarter of the pop gains as annual events.

[khriztian]

Imo the game is about right in terms of popularity gains and even harsh in latest patches. Big companies with all the popularity, coverage and the access to big broadcasters for their shows, if they really push a worker he will gain pop (IRL in my country Smackdown and even NXT stars are getting quite a lot of public recognition even from people who are not even interested in wrestling, but the fact that those shows are broadcasted live in prime time at Foxsports, makes a huge impact). Nonetheless, as MikeSc said, if you do what WWE does, "limit" the momentum through "nobody is bigger that the business booking" it will be alright. In contrast, if you try to push guys on smaller companies with little coverage and little access to proper broadcasters, pop gains will be more sluggish than ever with the newer patches.

[alvarasus]

Why do you need to change something that isn't broken? It is realistic if a worker is working more shows in a year that he would gain more popularity.

[TheChef]

What I ended up doing is very heavy WWE-style booking on the midcard. Once anybody gets to "Hot" or better momentum i job them until it is warm and their pop sinks pretty low. Then they get wins over lower guys on the card for a bit before getting anything over another guy their level.

 

Yeah, I guess this could work, but I shouldn't really have to sabotage my own workers to stop them getting too popular. WWE gets massively criticised for doing this and in my opinion, rightly so. Plus, doing this would interfere with the flow of the characters' stories.

 

Big companies with all the popularity, coverage and the access to big broadcasters for their shows, if they really push a worker he will gain pop (IRL in my country Smackdown and even NXT stars are getting quite a lot of public recognition even from people who are not even interested in wrestling, but the fact that those shows are broadcasted live in prime time at Foxsports, makes a huge impact).

 

Sure, but the problem is that I'm not really pushing some of these guys but they gain huge pop anyway. None of my 21 'major stars' have more losses than wins, but a lot of them are close to 50/50 yet white hot momentum and 90+ pop anyway. My issue is that too many guys are getting too over even when not particularly stongly booked.

 

Why do you need to change something that isn't broken? It is realistic if a worker is working more shows in a year that he would gain more popularity.

 

They're not working more shows, in most cases they're working less. I said I run 48 events; most big companies run 12 events plus 48/96 TV shows per year. In this save, SWF run three TV shows plus 12 events per year. That's 156 shows and their guys aren't anywhere near mine in pop. Even more is that my workers do not wrestle on every show, far from it. My busiest guys haven't worked more than 35 of 48 shows in a year.

[DirigoJoe]

It's not too easy to gain pop, you just gamed the system. You're playing the game in a way it wasn't designed to be played. It's like saying "Are everyone's heads too big in Goldeneye? I put in the DK mode code and now everyone's head is way too big!"

 

Part of the game, with a big company, is making a weekly TV show and making it matter. If you want to run all events you almost need to play a smaller company for that.

[codey_v2]

Your workers are gaining overness like that because you're running so many events. Popularity gains and losses are much, much higher on events than they are on tv shows, where they're actually pretty miniscule.

[TheChef]

It's not too easy to gain pop, you just gamed the system. You're playing the game in a way it wasn't designed to be played. It's like saying "Are everyone's heads too big in Goldeneye? I put in the DK mode code and now everyone's head is way too big!"

 

Part of the game, with a big company, is making a weekly TV show and making it matter. If you want to run all events you almost need to play a smaller company for that.

 

I think you're out of line here, saying I gamed the system. I did no such thing. Weekly events are supposed to be weaker than monthly / annual events; their attendance is about a quarter of those events, in line with TV attendance, the pop gain should be too. Weekly events are part of the game, if they weren't supposed to be used, they wouldn't exist. If I were running annual events on a weekly basis, that's one thing, but these weekly events are designed to be used weekly. That Goldeneye reference you make is a cheat code for cosmetic purposes, not a build-in game option. Furthermore, I can play the game how I choose, I shouldn't be expected to play weekly TV if I don't want to.

 

Your workers are gaining overness like that because you're running so many events. Popularity gains and losses are much, much higher on events than they are on tv shows, where they're actually pretty miniscule.

 

Yeah, I get that pop gains on events are higher than on TV, but what I'm saying is that weekly events are giving pop on par with monthly / annual events that are designed to be used once per month. Weekly events, as I stated above, are part of the game and designed to be used weekly. The pop they give should be closer to TV pop, just like the attendance is, than to monthly PPV pop, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

[MikeSc]

I never said I did that for my main event guys.

 

I do it for the guys who need to stay at midcard level. Once they get to main event level they are way more protected. It's just a matter of controlling who gets over and who doesn't. If you don't cut some guys off, you end up with all main eventers.

 

You wanted to know how to avoid that and I was giving you the easiest way the game has to offer. I had the same problem with my midcard guys until I started doing that for the midcard only. The problem with the WWE doing that for the whole roster is nobody seems special anymore. Say what you will about Hulk Hogan and the protection he had. But it made him come off as special to the fans at the time. The problems happen when either everyone gets cut off at he knees, making nobody a real attraction, or when everyone gets way over and it is no longer special to be that over. So you book the main event guys more protected and the midcard guys way more competitive until somebody gets big enough Psych/top row to push up to the next level and let their momentum go and they get there easily.

 

I would also suggest a little more acceptance of what other people are saying and use it or don't, just don't lash out at them for trying to help. There are people out there who will simply not answer a question in the future as a result.

[TheChef]

I never said I did that for my main event guys.

 

I do it for the guys who need to stay at midcard level. Once they get to main event level they are way more protected. It's just a matter of controlling who gets over and who doesn't. If you don't cut some guys off, you end up with all main eventers.

 

You wanted to know how to avoid that and I was giving you the easiest way the game has to offer. I had the same problem with my midcard guys until I started doing that for the midcard only. The problem with the WWE doing that for the whole roster is nobody seems special anymore. Say what you will about Hulk Hogan and the protection he had. But it made him come off as special to the fans at the time. The problems happen when either everyone gets cut off at he knees, making nobody a real attraction, or when everyone gets way over and it is no longer special to be that over. So you book the main event guys more protected and the midcard guys way more competitive until somebody gets big enough Psych/top row to push up to the next level and let their momentum go and they get there easily.

 

I would also suggest a little more acceptance of what other people are saying and use it or don't, just don't lash out at them for trying to help. There are people out there who will simply not answer a question in the future as a result.

 

 

I appreciate what you're saying and I'm grateful for the advice, I did ask for advice after all. I guess the problem is that I did think I was pushing guys as midcarders but see them rise to major stars anyway. A lot of guys I've 50/50ed or maybe more like 55/45ed but they still rose to major stars. I mean, I know myself who my real top guys are, so for booking purposes it doesn't really matter. It does matter when contracts come up though, even with wrestlers I don't really care to re-sign. I can let them go to USPW for example, but that affects the game too because the AI thinks it's signed a main eventer and pushes them as such but in many cases that worker can't actually carry a main event, so the other company loses pop and my game becomes even more unbalanced. I think the only real solution is to stop using weekly events, but this save is probably already destroyed and I'm more likely to just go and play something else rather than start over and have to book TV again. It's a shame. But thanks for the advice, I do appreciate people trying to help.

 

I don't appreciate, however, and this was not you Mike, being accused of gaming the system when using a valid built-in option. This is like accusing someone of gaming the system because they use gimmicks or run angles; it's ridiculous. So if it came across like I was lashing out it's because of that.

[oomalikoo]

What exactly is midcard pop? I assume anyone under 80 is midcard.

[MikeSc]

I get what you are saying. I have had to spend 3 months jobbing a guy down just because I left him at Hot for too long. And my suspicion is with the roster size I run now (just shy of 60) I will lose track of somebody again and have to do it. It takes a small chunk of the profits to pay off some personalities.

 

As far as midcard pop, it's going to vary according to momentum and promotion Pop. My promotion at 99 I don't like midcard guys getting over 80. They tend to get attitudes about jobbing to Well Known guys after that. My WLW game is at just over a 60 and the Well Known guys come in mid-40s or so, depending on momentum.

 

I look at Recognizable as the more Lower Midcard, wrestlers who used to job to everyone but have shown enough to at least beat the other jobbers on the way to midcard (depending on skill level).

 

Star to me is more what used to be Upper Midcard. Wrestlers that can easily be in the main event, but not quite at the level of the super protected workers. In reality, they truly become the JTTS for me. And I find it very hard to keep people in this category with a really good main event. Just being in matches that are consistently in the high 90s pulls their pop up, which it should, and makes them Major Stars regardless of what I want. Or how often they job. So I really keep those Well Known guys cycling down when they get close.

 

Pre-booking is busy enough with 19 Major Stars that you want without multiple ones you don't. It does make for a good use of Three Ring Circus match focus though.

[gooberbm]

I think you're out of line here, saying I gamed the system. I did no such thing. Weekly events are supposed to be weaker than monthly / annual events; their attendance is about a quarter of those events, in line with TV attendance, the pop gain should be too. Weekly events are part of the game, if they weren't supposed to be used, they wouldn't exist. If I were running annual events on a weekly basis, that's one thing, but these weekly events are designed to be used weekly. That Goldeneye reference you make is a cheat code for cosmetic purposes, not a build-in game option. Furthermore, I can play the game how I choose, I shouldn't be expected to play weekly TV if I don't want to.

 

 

 

Yeah, I get that pop gains on events are higher than on TV, but what I'm saying is that weekly events are giving pop on par with monthly / annual events that are designed to be used once per month. Weekly events, as I stated above, are part of the game and designed to be used weekly. The pop they give should be closer to TV pop, just like the attendance is, than to monthly PPV pop, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

 

Another thing you may be missing is are you setting your events as normal, or lesser? Events set as normal will gain popularity the same whether it's weekly, monthly, or annually. If you want the events to not have pop gains, they need to be set to lesser or throwaway

[kdcastles]

What are you doing in your angles? I know if there is someone I want to push, I use angles, and no matter what happens in the angle, I make sure the person I want to push has a major success. If you are always giving major successes in angles you will keep their momentum high. Just use the guys gaining the unwanted to pop to uplift others. I'm sure you have someone buried down the card you'd like to push.

[TheChef]

Another thing you may be missing is are you setting your events as normal, or lesser? Events set as normal will gain popularity the same whether it's weekly, monthly, or annually. If you want the events to not have pop gains, they need to be set to lesser or throwaway

 

I thought about this too, but according to the player handbook, the event intent only affects the company's popularity, not the workers'. So, the workers will still gain pop even if the company doesn't by using a lesser event.

 

What are you doing in your angles? I know if there is someone I want to push, I use angles, and no matter what happens in the angle, I make sure the person I want to push has a major success. If you are always giving major successes in angles you will keep their momentum high. Just use the guys gaining the unwanted to pop to uplift others. I'm sure you have someone buried down the card you'd like to push.

 

I never give major success or defeat, only use success or defeat for a serious beatdown / embarrassment and minor rarely. Many of my angles are back and forth promos or evenly matched brawls, so I keep things neutral.

[lr10540]

In my RtG game within the CVerse I have this same issue. I let the CPU autobook weekly TV and have been for at least 2 in game years because I'm just trying to win the challenge at this point. Nearly everyone on my roster is a major star or star with white hot momentum and have been forever. I don't know why. I don't understand it.

[MikeSc]

<p>Normal Events will give pop boosts for 6 or more over the worker's current pop.</p><p> </p><p>

Lesser takes a lot more for pop gains. Something like 12 or 16, I forget the exact number.</p><p> </p><p>

Touring takes a ridiculous amount more so that there is almost no chance of gaining pop.</p>

[TheChef]

Normal Events will give pop boosts for 6 or more over the worker's current pop.

 

Lesser takes a lot more for pop gains. Something like 12 or 16, I forget the exact number.

 

Touring takes a ridiculous amount more so that there is almost no chance of gaining pop.

 

Is this right? Because if it is, then it's a possible solution to my problem. I could set most events to lesser so that these pop gains don't get out of hand. It's just that the in-game player handbook states, and I quote "A show's intent does not impact changes to the workers' popularity, only the company's." If you have noticed that it works differently though, that's something I could use.

[Teh_Showtime]

What exactly makes weekly TV so bad in your eyes? What would be different if you booked a weekly TV show the same way you book weekly events?

[SirMichaelJordan]

Yea it is too easy to gain pop for the simple fact that anyone can reach a high popularity with a broadcaster that have limited reach.

 

It’s possible to make the next Rock on a broadcaster that no one knows about. That makes 0 sense logically.

 

You also have the ability to gain unlimited popularity without TV/PPV coverage with just live events. Even in the territorial days, the bigger companies ran local TV and the bigger wrestlers were seen on local TV.

 

Sadly natural growth limits doesn’t fix any of that.

[TheChef]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="51888" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What exactly makes weekly TV so bad in your eyes? What would be different if you booked a weekly TV show the same way you book weekly events?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well, for one thing the workers hold back on TV so it's not so easy to get great matches. They often won't take big bumps either. Secondly, I don't like booking towards one important show per month (the PPV); I would rather everything feels important. But, if I don't run PPVs, it's not financially viable to run TV as weekly events because the revenue loss from PPV isn't made up enough from TV attendance, fees, etc. And here, the opposite problem would be in effect; not enough pop gain from TV shows. Also, TV shows have to be booked +5 or -5 minutes, whereas events have 25% flexibilty so I doesn't matter so much if I run over or under. Lots of reasons, really.</p>

[ZMAN]

Seems like that once a guy hits 100 in wrestling they might be ready to move onto greener pastures (aka Hollywood) since they’ve peaked in that industry. Would be cool if that was risk for blowing up someone into being that big of a name