The Nickman Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 So I've played this game quite a bit now, but I still just can't quite get my head around the new momentum system. In the old system it was pretty black and white... give guys wins or angles with successes and they gain momentum, vice versa and they lose it. I genuinely don't understand what influences momentum in this version of the game. As an example, I have Jeff Hardy as an unimportant member of my roster in my '97 save, and he has Chilly momentum, but he's won 7 of his 11 matches and has "Fairly Good" storyline success in his current storyline, meaning he's generally come out on top in angles. Is there anyone out there who can explain to me a bit better how the new system works and how I can improve momentum on my lower card guys? It seems it's something beyond just Wins/Losses and angle Success/Defeats at play here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nickman Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="James The Animator" data-cite="James The Animator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52606" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This year, I think GDS changed the momentum system to take into account not just who wins or loses, but the quality of the performances in each segment. If you're trying to elevate an Unimportant wrestler by having him wrestle other Unimportant wrestlers, you're conditioning your fans to regard that guy as Unimportant forever. They'll warm up to your Unimportant wrestler if you put him in segments with a Well Known wrestler, regardless of who wins in the storyline. I mean, in real life, Brock Lesnar made a bigger splash beating both of the Hardy Boyz at once in his first pay-per-view match than Lars Sullivan did squashing R-Truth and the Lucha House Party, right? It's a detail that adds realism to the game, but I can see how it could confuse people.</div></blockquote><p> Ok, but Jeff Hardy's been involved in a programme with Bob Backland and the Iron Sheik, who both have much higher popularity than him, and he's been beating them.</p><p> </p><p> He also scored a victory over Faarooq recently, like I said, I just don't understand how this is working.</p><p> </p><p> He shouldn't be Chilly with this kind of record.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nickman Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Backlund has a popularity of 66, Faarooq is 68, Iron Sheik is 70, Jeff Hardy is in the low-20s... no way he should still have Chilly momentum defeating those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monday Night Chores Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I have found exactly the same. I’ve had unimportant people and had them beat loads of people of much bigger importance than them and see unable to move chilly momentum. It feels a bit broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprout1883 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Backlund has a popularity of 66, Faarooq is 68, Iron Sheik is 70, Jeff Hardy is in the low-20s... no way he should still have Chilly momentum defeating those guys. What are the dirt sheet notes saying? What gimmick does Jeff have and how over is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 See the quote from the developer's journal first. The things that affect momentum have also changed. In the previous games momentum was entirely about kayfabe success. In the new game, momentum covers both kayfabe and general performance. This simulates the fans being able to appreciate someone killing it in the ring or on the microphone even if they're not necessarily getting a lot of victories. The biggest change is that TEW2020 now uses a two-tier system for momentum, with it being split into Short Term and Long Term. Short Term momentum is a behind-the-scenes stat (i.e. it's not visible anywhere) and is what gets affected by matches, angles, and some external events. This is very volatile and goes up or down a lot. Its only effect is on Long Term momentum, which will be covered in a moment. Long Term momentum is the stat you can see (via roster screens) and is what is used in any momentum-based calculations. It is rarely directly impacted by what you do in your booking (although there are some special instances where it can be) and is much more stable than Short Term. The way these interact is that Long Term will slowly move towards the Short Term value each day, basically forming an average. For example, you could have a worker having lots of wins and lots of losses over the course of a month, meaning Short Term is moving a lot, but as Long Term is only moving slowly it will end up being a reflection of the booking over that period as a whole. This therefore gives a more subtle, nuanced simulation of a worker's current momentum and cannot rely on "quick fixes" - long-term strategy is much more effective. As mentioned before, there are some circumstances where Long Term can be sharply changed. These tend to be bigger one-off things - for example, a worker getting busted in a scandal could kill their momentum off almost immediately, while a worker appearing in a movie could give them a quick boost. So while Jeff Hardy has won 7/11 matches and has beaten names in that time -- there are other factors. Did he start of loosing? Have the wins been flash pinfalls which reduce them slightly. Has his individual performance in the matches been good or are the more popular guys carrying him? There are multiple factors that go into play in momentum and it takes a bit longer -- to simulate the idea that you can't job someone out for two months and then give him a month, month and a half of winning, and all of a sudden he's white out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nickman Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 What are the dirt sheet notes saying? What gimmick does Jeff have and how over is it? Ahhhh, I gave Jeff a new gimmick and it’s poor... could that be the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nickman Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 See the quote from the developer's journal first. So while Jeff Hardy has won 7/11 matches and has beaten names in that time -- there are other factors. Did he start of loosing? Have the wins been flash pinfalls which reduce them slightly. Has his individual performance in the matches been good or are the more popular guys carrying him? There are multiple factors that go into play in momentum and it takes a bit longer -- to simulate the idea that you can't job someone out for two months and then give him a month, month and a half of winning, and all of a sudden he's white out. Thanks for this, I think it helps a bit. But no, this 7/11 record is his entire record in-game. But he started off with almost zero popularity, so I assume his performances were at that level too. I also gave him a Poor new gimmick and I don’t think that’s helping either. I think it’s starting to make sense to me, he just needs to build pop and build performances and his momentum should hopefully begin to turn. I’ve probably tried to push him too quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njmcfreak Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Thanks for this, I think it helps a bit. But no, this 7/11 record is his entire record in-game. But he started off with almost zero popularity, so I assume his performances were at that level too. I also gave him a Poor new gimmick and I don’t think that’s helping either. I think it’s starting to make sense to me, he just needs to build pop and build performances and his momentum should hopefully begin to turn. I’ve probably tried to push him too quickly. If he has a terrible gimmick, it's gonna take forever if at all to change his momentum. Which makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavelleuk Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 <p>With unimportant people wins and losses don't matter, they wirk like enhancement guys in 2016 so you can have them win or lose constantly and they stay neutral</p><p> </p><p> However what happens to them in angles affects them so if they get beaten down or whatever </p><p> </p><p> So maybe you've booked him to be defeated in angles? But wins wouldn't build that back up</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhilleagle Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 In my experience (although I stopped looking at momentum a few months ago), Unimportant workers NEVER gain momentum, but they still gain pop. I've had plenty of "jobbers" rise up my cards (As soon as they get to recognisable, I see momentum change). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nickman Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="redhilleagle" data-cite="redhilleagle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52606" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In my experience (although I stopped looking at momentum a few months ago), Unimportant workers NEVER gain momentum, but they still gain pop. I've had plenty of "jobbers" rise up my cards (As soon as they get to recognisable, I see momentum change).</div></blockquote><p> Ok, maybe that’s what’s going on, I just need to ignore momentum on my unimportant guys until they get to recognisable?</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d12345 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="redhilleagle" data-cite="redhilleagle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52606" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In my experience (although I stopped looking at momentum a few months ago), Unimportant workers NEVER gain momentum, but they still gain pop. I've had plenty of "jobbers" rise up my cards (As soon as they get to recognisable, I see momentum change).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Nickman" data-cite="The Nickman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52606" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ok, maybe that’s what’s going on, I just need to ignore momentum on my unimportant guys until they get to recognisable?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This isn't true actually. Unimportant workers wont gain/lose momentum from losing matches but they can still lose/gain mo in other ways.</p><p> </p><p> If I'm not mistaken flubbing an interview or being off their game too many times starts to effect their momentum. Also having anyone 'lose' angles will hurt their momentum.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhilleagle Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="d12345" data-cite="d12345" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52606" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This isn't true actually. Unimportant workers wont gain/lose momentum from losing matches but they can still lose/gain mo in other ways.<p> </p><p> If I'm not mistaken flubbing an interview or being off their game too many times starts to effect their momentum. Also having anyone 'lose' angles will hurt their momentum.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, I wasn't saying it doesn't happen, but in MY experience I have not, so far, seen positive momentum on an unimportant wrestler, but they still gain pop and once they get to recognisable, as long as I am still "pushing" them, I do start to see positive momentum.</p><p> </p><p> I've actually stopped looking at momentum for ALL of my workers, they either get over, or they don't. If there's someone who I'm pushing hard that isn't getting over, I usually look at their gimmick or just put it down to "you win some, you lose some" or "They just don't have the IT factor".</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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