Losing in Contract Negotiations

[JayNO]

Just wondered for those more experienced with this game than myself.

 

So I'm running TCW and have managed to get to Large Size. SWF and USPW have both fallen in size once, with SWF getting back to Large and USPW still fallen at Medium. TCW is No.1 in United States and No.2 in the World.

 

When a wrestler reaches the final 30 days of his contract, I tend to lose the negotiations to at first USPW before they dropped and now SWF. I have one a few negotiations but I lost Sammy Bach to USPW which was a big blow, and have missed some big names even though I felt I offered a significant amount.

 

Are there other factors? And is there a way I can win negotiations more often?

[gtb321]

When you say you offered a significant amount, are you just referring to the wage you offer? Because more years on a contract and bonuses are another way of offering a better deal.

[Sisma]

I think it's pretty simple, actually. You have to look at their offers and compare them to yours. If, whoever you are offering a contract, is serioulsly considering the rivals' offer, you need to offer more (wages, bonus, merchandise cut, years).

 

The question is whether or not they are worth it or you can afford it.

[JayNO]

Haha, how have I never noticed the rival offers button.

[TheChef]

Yeah, check rival offers but then be prepared to offer about 50% more than the best rival offer. Workers will often tell you they have a better offer from elsewhere even when they clearly don't.

[Sisma]

I don't think the game works that way.

 

They will only tell you they have a better offer if it's true. You have to consider that wages aren't the only thing that can make an offer better.

 

If you offer better wages, but a rival offers a higher bonus percentage or a higher merchandise cut, it might be a better financial offer than yours. Especially if it's over a longer time period, so the length of the contract is also important.

 

Creative control, hiring veto and wage matching are very important, as well. I've had to up the wages considerably when going against a contract offer with creative control.

[Makhai]

I don't think the game works that way.

 

They will only tell you they have a better offer if it's true. You have to consider that wages aren't the only thing that can make an offer better.

 

If you offer better wages, but a rival offers a higher bonus percentage or a higher merchandise cut, it might be a better financial offer than yours. Especially if it's over a longer time period, so the length of the contract is also important.

 

Creative control, hiring veto and wage matching are very important, as well. I've had to up the wages considerably when going against a contract offer with creative control.

 

Before you throw the kitchen sink, check to make sure it's not like event bonuses or something dumb like that. I've had people sign offers elsewhere when I offered literal 10x multipliers and when I restored the backup to see why I discovered they offered 15% events bonus to my 5%. Would have paid the person almost 140k a year but he's got that $500 a PPV. Worth. The AI REALLY values these weirdo contract curves a lot more than top-end money it seems. Beat the ancillaries and pass a day and see if they change their tune on your offer. Then back up the Brinks truck.

[TheChef]

I don't think the game works that way.

 

They will only tell you they have a better offer if it's true. You have to consider that wages aren't the only thing that can make an offer better.

 

If you offer better wages, but a rival offers a higher bonus percentage or a higher merchandise cut, it might be a better financial offer than yours. Especially if it's over a longer time period, so the length of the contract is also important.

 

Creative control, hiring veto and wage matching are very important, as well. I've had to up the wages considerably when going against a contract offer with creative control.

 

I know all those bonuses add value to the contract, plus company size, momentum and broadcast coverage all weight in too. Even still, I often have to offer much more than other companies, even when I'm the larger company. It clearly favours the AI when it comes to contract negotiations.

 

 

Before you throw the kitchen sink, check to make sure it's not like event bonuses or something dumb like that. I've had people sign offers elsewhere when I offered literal 10x multipliers and when I restored the backup to see why I discovered they offered 15% events bonus to my 5%. Would have paid the person almost 140k a year but he's got that $500 a PPV. Worth. The AI REALLY values these weirdo contract curves a lot more than top-end money it seems. Beat the ancillaries and pass a day and see if they change their tune on your offer. Then back up the Brinks truck.

 

Yeah, this too. Those event bonuses are way overvalued. I would say broken, even. The worker doesn't seem to consider that 20% of 100 is much lower than 10% of 1000, for example.

[d12345]

Yeah, this too. Those event bonuses are way overvalued. I would say broken, even. The worker doesn't seem to consider that 20% of 100 is much lower than 10% of 1000, for example.

 

Event bonuses are not overvalued. That can significantly increase their income.

 

Before you get to the negotiation table there are a few things you can do to win negotiations when they are considering both offers:

 

- Look at who is expiring and try to build friendships between them and members of your roster.

 

- Look at your User Talents and make sure you have high negotiation skill

 

- Look at their attributes/personalities. Loyal people will be more likely to stay. Mercenaries will be more likely to go.

 

- Adjust their roster usage. If you promise to book someone strong it will make them more likely to sign with you. Backbone, icon, special attraction, and future main eventer are the most powerful ones. Obviously you have to follow through on booking them the way you promise.

[Matt_Black]

Bear in mind, some owners will NOT let you offer things like Creative Control or Wage Matching. So, you have to get clever. I have noticed that rival companies rarely, if ever, take House Shows out of the equation (at least in my experience), so that's something you can use.

 

I play QAW, and USPW poaches my talent A LOT, while also not usually letting any of their talent go. I did manage to pry away Faith McGee from them once. Usually, though, I'm on the losing end of negotiations.

[TheChef]

Event bonuses are not overvalued. That can significantly increase their income.

 

Ok, so what is the better offer here? $25,000 per month with 20% event bonus (assuming one event per month, if the worker is even booked); or $45,000 per month with no event bonus? All other clauses the same, similar-sized companies.

[Historian]

Ok, so what is the better offer here? $25,000 per month with 20% event bonus (assuming one event per month, if the worker is even booked); or $45,000 per month with no event bonus? All other clauses the same, similar-sized companies.

 

Well, let's do some math.

 

$45,000 with no event bonus across twelve months = $540,000

 

$25,000 across twelve months (not counting bonuses) = $300,000

 

20% bonus per event = $5000 a pop across twelve events is $60,000, giving the $25,000 total to $360,000 for a differential of $180,000 in favor of the non-bonused contract.

 

So just on the face of it, the $45,000 deal nets more money; however, there is more to play than just raw money. While the merchandise claus may be the same and the company sizes are the same, are the company merchandise levels the same? If company A and company B are the same size and both offer a 15% merchandise bonus but company A has higher merchandise levels allowing The Wrestler to sell more merchandise units, that 15% gets factored in higher.

 

When we talk of the value of the contract, that does not mean that it's simply a financial rating (although obviously the amount they're likely to make is very important!). Workers will take into account many different factors, including the security that the offer represents (workers will tend to prefer guaranteed money and long-term security), the size and prestige of the company, their relationship with the owner, booker, and locker room, the broadcasting capabilities of the company, etc.)

 

I quote this to showcase that it is not merely a straight numbers game and while a lot of emphasis in replies has been on company size/prestige and relationships within each individual company, I think people often overlook the broadcasting capabilities. If you're playing as TCW and you're bidding against USPW, you have to bid higher because USPW has significantly higher broadcasting capabilities than TCW.

 

For instance, TCW starts with TV on Ace with Very Big outreach in the United States and USA Free Choice for Pay Per Views with Big outreach in the United States but no outreach anywhere else.

 

SWF, by contrast, is on C.A.N.N. for Supreme TV which is only Big in the United States but Medium in Canada and Mexico and PPV distribution through Premier Pay Can and Premeier Pay US giving them a bigger Pay Per View outreach as well.

 

USPW airs everything on Reverie -- which is Huge in the United States and Canada, Big in the British Isles, Mexico, and Australia and Medium in Europe, Japan and Asia, giving them significantly higher broadcasting capabilities and making them a significantly more attractive option.

 

I've also tested this theory in games with myself where I have created companies at the exact same size, same money, etc... but their broadcasting deals are different and the one with the better broadcasting deal wins the vast majority of the time -- all things else being equal. Guys want to go where they can make money, but they also want to go where they have the best potential to increase their revenue in the future and a bigger platform means a more likely opportunity to gain more popularity and be worth more money down the line.

 

These are just some things to think about.

 

TL/DR: Contract negotiations are a careful balance of a wide variety of factors including incomes made beyond just the amount offered and even the event bonuses but include company broadcasting capability as a way to increase a worker's future revenues which they do take into account.

[TheChef]

Well, let's do some math.

 

$45,000 with no event bonus across twelve months = $540,000

 

$25,000 across twelve months (not counting bonuses) = $300,000

 

20% bonus per event = $5000 a pop across twelve events is $60,000, giving the $25,000 total to $360,000 for a differential of $180,000 in favor of the non-bonused contract.

 

So just on the face of it, the $45,000 deal nets more money; however, there is more to play than just raw money. While the merchandise claus may be the same and the company sizes are the same, are the company merchandise levels the same? If company A and company B are the same size and both offer a 15% merchandise bonus but company A has higher merchandise levels allowing The Wrestler to sell more merchandise units, that 15% gets factored in higher.

 

 

 

I quote this to showcase that it is not merely a straight numbers game and while a lot of emphasis in replies has been on company size/prestige and relationships within each individual company, I think people often overlook the broadcasting capabilities. If you're playing as TCW and you're bidding against USPW, you have to bid higher because USPW has significantly higher broadcasting capabilities than TCW.

 

For instance, TCW starts with TV on Ace with Very Big outreach in the United States and USA Free Choice for Pay Per Views with Big outreach in the United States but no outreach anywhere else.

 

SWF, by contrast, is on C.A.N.N. for Supreme TV which is only Big in the United States but Medium in Canada and Mexico and PPV distribution through Premier Pay Can and Premeier Pay US giving them a bigger Pay Per View outreach as well.

 

USPW airs everything on Reverie -- which is Huge in the United States and Canada, Big in the British Isles, Mexico, and Australia and Medium in Europe, Japan and Asia, giving them significantly higher broadcasting capabilities and making them a significantly more attractive option.

 

I've also tested this theory in games with myself where I have created companies at the exact same size, same money, etc... but their broadcasting deals are different and the one with the better broadcasting deal wins the vast majority of the time -- all things else being equal. Guys want to go where they can make money, but they also want to go where they have the best potential to increase their revenue in the future and a bigger platform means a more likely opportunity to gain more popularity and be worth more money down the line.

 

These are just some things to think about.

 

TL/DR: Contract negotiations are a careful balance of a wide variety of factors including incomes made beyond just the amount offered and even the event bonuses but include company broadcasting capability as a way to increase a worker's future revenues which they do take into account.

 

 

OK, but in the default data, TCW actually has the highest merch levels (9 compared to SWF's 8 and USPW's 7) yet when I play TCW, I always have to offer way more than those two companies. You then refer to broadcasting reach.

 

Fine, in the default data, but I often start my own broadcaster with a lot of reach comparable to USPW's, but I still have to offer much more money to get a worker.

 

I appreciate your help here in explaining the potential issues, but in my experience, even when I'm the largest company with the best momentum, biggest reach, best merch operations, etc, I still have to offer significantly more money than other companies. It's not a massive issue anyway, as the finances are so imbalanced that I can afford to employ 100 workers on $100,000 or more per month anyway. I just wanted to point out that contract negotiations are weighted in favour of the AI, it's not a game breaker. It's just quite annoying when a worker tells you they have a better offer from another company when they quite clearly don't, and they give no further explanation of why they prefer the other offer.

[ConcutioCaelum]

What level is your negotiating skill, as that plays a large factor as well

[TheChef]

What level is your negotiating skill, as that plays a large factor as well

 

It's only a factor if you're trying to get someone on the cheap. Once you've crossed a threshold that's acceptable for the worker, this no longer matters. For example, if they want $20,000 per month, a high negotiating skill can get them for $18,000 if they have no other offers. In a bidding war, you'll go way beyond that $20,000 anyway. Plus, even if it were a factor for the player, it doesn't affect the AI. So either the AI has a negotiating skill of 10 or it's not an issue - either way bidding is weighted against the player.

[d12345]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheChef" data-cite="TheChef" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52611" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ok, so what is the better offer here? $25,000 per month with 20% event bonus (assuming one event per month, if the worker is even booked); or $45,000 per month with no event bonus? All other clauses the same, similar-sized companies.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well depends on the company. If you are running a Japanese or touring promotion then all of those touring shows = an even bonus. Therefor that 20% event bonus would be wayyy more valued in Japan.</p><p> </p><p> If you're a WWE-like promotion that 20% event bonus can also significantly increase their income. Whether or not you use them for every event, they can see Raw, Smackdown, and NXT ppv shows as potential 20% bonus events.</p><p> </p><p> So someone like Finn Balor or Charlotte who worked NXT ppv shows + main roster ppv shows would be making a killing in bonuses.</p><p> </p><p> If you're RAW or USPW though, maybe that event bonus isn't as valued as the raw contract.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52611" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've also tested this theory in games with myself where I have created companies at the exact same size, same money, etc... but their broadcasting deals are different and the one with the better broadcasting deal wins the vast majority of the time -- all things else being equal. Guys want to go where they can make money, but they also want to go where they have the best potential to increase their revenue in the future and a bigger platform means a more likely opportunity to gain more popularity and be worth more money down the line.<p> </p><p> These are just some things to think about.</p><p> </p><p> TL/DR: Contract negotiations are a careful balance of a wide variety of factors including incomes made beyond just the amount offered and even the event bonuses but include company broadcasting capability as a way to increase a worker's future revenues which they do take into account.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Makes sense. I never really even considered this aspect of it!</p>