Top 5 Greatest Of All Time in the Cornellverse

[TheAlphaFuzzion]

Just curious to see everyone’s top 5 greatest of all time wrestlers in the Cornellverse. I’m pretty new to the Cornellverse in general so take my top 5 with a grain of salt.

1. Tommy Cornell

2. Champagne Lover

3. Sam Keith

4. Rip Chord

5. Sam Strong

[a0161613]

I don't hate the names but I'm not sure about the order. I'd go as far to say that Lover should be on top.

[lavelleuk]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheAlphaFuzzion" data-cite="TheAlphaFuzzion" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="53351" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just curious to see everyone’s top 5 greatest of all time wrestlers in the Cornellverse. I’m pretty new to the Cornellverse in general so take my top 5 with a grain of salt. <p> 1. Tommy Cornell</p><p> 2. Champagne Lover</p><p> 3. Sam Keith</p><p> 4. Rip Chord</p><p> 5. Sam Strong</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Seems a good list for USA and Mexico, although I'm sure Jack Bruce could fit in too</p>

[Big Roguey]

where is ben williams

[siah463]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="James The Animator" data-cite="James The Animator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="53351" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>My C-Verse Mount Rushmore, in no particular order: Tommy Cornell, Yoshimi Mushashibo, Rip Chord, & Champagne Lover.</div></blockquote> Mine is pretty much the same but I've got Kikkawa over Mushashibo <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[TheAlphaFuzzion]

Seems a good list for USA and Mexico, although I'm sure Jack Bruce could fit in too

 

Yeah I’m not really familiar with any regions outside of USA, Canada, Mexico, and Europe. Like I said I’m pretty new just started getting into the Cverse like a month ago.

[TheBryanStinberg]

I used to think Tommy Cornell was the face of the Cornellverse, I mean it was only fitting but damn Lover boomed into a far bigger name!

[Historian]

My C-Verse Mount Rushmore, in no particular order: Tommy Cornell, Yoshimi Mushashibo, Rip Chord, & Champagne Lover.

 

The legends who missed the cut: Sam Keith, El Patron, Elemental I, Sam Strong, Christian Faith, Tadiyuki Kikkawa, Master Kitozon, Mito Miwa.

 

This is pretty much my list as well. Much like in real wrestling, it's hard to pick just five, but these guys are probably all the top (with guys like Dread and Bruce the Giant just sitting outside the list, Dread especially with his high-level success for decades everywhere he went. Dan Stone Jr. is probably up there too. Maeda probably belongs in the conversation as well -- the damn man held GCG together.

 

Luis Montero Sr. and Manuel Prieto are both probably up there also. It really depends on what it is you're looking at. It's a tough onion to peel no matter which way you try to do it -- but that's what makes the debate so fun.

[TheAlphaFuzzion]

I used to think Tommy Cornell was the face of the Cornellverse, I mean it was only fitting but damn Lover boomed into a far bigger name!

 

Exact reason why I put him number 1 just because of the name. If it was named something else lover would’ve been my number 1 lol.

[Derek B]

Making a list of 5 is super tough..... everyone will have their own way or measuring things but as someone who has looked back into history (and made a decent chunk of it with CV97) I'm trying to look at the overall impact of people on the world, their success and their talent. Which can be tricky. So, in no particular order AND with some reasons for the people they edged out.....

 

Champagne Lover

The guy took what was the #3 company in Mexico, put it on his muscular back, charismatically talked his way into everyone's hearts, elevated the lucha libre style into an art form, turned SOBTPW/EILL into a credible threat outside of Mexico to the major American companies and broke through into Hollywood.... the guy is an absolute rock star, and while there have been many lucha libre legends including Luis Montero Sr, Manuel Prieto/Mr Lucha and El Patron, none of them have managed to do what Champagne Lover did. And no one ever will again.

 

Sam Strong

Strong turned the PPV business in North America into what it is today and carried the SWF on his back through one of it's most iconic phases, then he went to BHOTWG and kicked ass to win the most prestigious World title in existence, and he followed that up by using his fame and booking savvy (debatable) to put HGC/TCW on the map. And then to top things off, he also proved himself to be an excellent businessman when he took over USPW and took them from the minor leagues to one of the top promotions in the world. The guy is an absolute legend, the undisputed number one of his era and had a long career at the top that has also carried on through his daughter Alicia. Some might argue in favour of Rip Chord, but Chord was always second to Strong.

 

Master Kitozon

People forget about him because he died waaaay back when, but he was the guy who elevated brought wrestling back from the dark ages after the Giant Pro Wrestling era and made it mainstream. He became a cultural icon in Japan and the original BHOTWG World title was retired in his honour, such is the esteem he is held in over in Japan. The dojo he trained in went on to become the Hinote Dojo, BHOTWG's training facility so even more than 40 years after his death his teachings are being used as the foundation for the biggest company in Japanese history, because he was so good in his own time that he was untouchable. There have been other great wrestlers, there have been other great trainers, and even companies who have been great... but none of the PGHW golden generation, none of the BHOTWG icons since, none of GCG's injury cursed legends ever got close to Kitozon's greatness and that's why BHOTWG to this day is still the best that Japan has ever had to offer.

 

Optimus

I accept that there may be some arguments over this one as there have been a great many incrediblly talented Junior wrestlers.... but who can say they have wielded the same influence as Optimus? Elemental may have come along a few years earlier and brought a new style of acrobaic excellence with him, but Optimus combined the acrobatics and the mysterious showmanship with technical wrestling and a career that lasted an extra decade at the highest level as he racked up literally one million Junior title wins, spawned an American version of himself, mastered the art of being both heel or face and could have a great match with anyone due to being almost unparalleled in his story telling ability. Make no mistake, Optimus' influence over the world of Junior wrestling extends far beyond Japan, with the likes of the entire CZCW roster, much of 4C, many luchadors, the entire WLW roster, the EX2010 roster and more borrowing heavily from the things he used over the course of his career. Elemental may have started the path, but Optimus widened it enough to make sure that everyone could use it and exceeded Elemental in every way.

 

Dread

Undoubtedly the best big man in wrestling history, if anyone argues that he is the best and most accomplished wrestler in history too they'd have a damn good case. Winning world titles in SWF, HGC (TCW), GCG and BHOTWG while putting on world class performances wherever he went, Dread changed what it meant to be a big man in pro wrestling. Unlike everyone else on the list, he was a career heel and I don't believe there was anyone more credible, talented and decorate who could compete with him at the same level he competed all the way until his retirement. Some might point to Rip Chord, who spent years fighting personal issues and who may have more championships in the regional days and who created his own company and school to help youngsters. Some might point to Sam Keith, who was a very different style of wrestler who also has contributed to the success of MAW and has kids in the business who will one day be legends. But Dread is also giving back through his own school dedicated to trying to replicate how good he was, so far without success because Dread is a unique talent. His own son might be good, but Dread is one of a kind and outshines all the other classic heels as outlined above, and stands alone at the top of the mountain of big men above the likes of Bruce The Giant, Vengeance, Ricky Dale Johnson or Marat Khoklov.

 

.......

 

And that's my list. I have been thinking about it a lot... there are obviously lots of other people who could make the list but most of them are fairly local successes. Most of the PGHW crew have been locked in there while PGHW has been second fiddle to BHOTWG, and had relatively short careers as a result, burning fast and bright. The Stones are all legendarily talented but stayed in Canada and had relatively small impacts on the world. Tommy Cornell is undoubtedly brilliant and influential, but he's never hit the heights of the names mentioned above despite his talents. Sean McFly was a huge talent but again hasn't done as much as he could have. Yoshifusa Maeda is a GCG icon and one of the best of all time, but locked into a company who weighed him down and his own loyalty held him back from what he could have achieved. So much talent out there. But I think the 5 mentioned above are the best the Cornellverse has ever had.

[scottk1983]

Making a list of 5 is super tough..... everyone will have their own way or measuring things but as someone who has looked back into history (and made a decent chunk of it with CV97) I'm trying to look at the overall impact of people on the world, their success and their talent. Which can be tricky. So, in no particular order AND with some reasons for the people they edged out.....

 

Champagne Lover

The guy took what was the #3 company in Mexico, put it on his muscular back, charismatically talked his way into everyone's hearts, elevated the lucha libre style into an art form, turned SOBTPW/EILL into a credible threat outside of Mexico to the major American companies and broke through into Hollywood.... the guy is an absolute rock star, and while there have been many lucha libre legends including Luis Montero Sr, Manuel Prieto/Mr Lucha and El Patron, none of them have managed to do what Champagne Lover did. And no one ever will again.

 

Sam Strong

Strong turned the PPV business in North America into what it is today and carried the SWF on his back through one of it's most iconic phases, then he went to BHOTWG and kicked ass to win the most prestigious World title in existence, and he followed that up by using his fame and booking savvy (debatable) to put HGC/TCW on the map. And then to top things off, he also proved himself to be an excellent businessman when he took over USPW and took them from the minor leagues to one of the top promotions in the world. The guy is an absolute legend, the undisputed number one of his era and had a long career at the top that has also carried on through his daughter Alicia. Some might argue in favour of Rip Chord, but Chord was always second to Strong.

 

Master Kitozon

People forget about him because he died waaaay back when, but he was the guy who elevated brought wrestling back from the dark ages after the Giant Pro Wrestling era and made it mainstream. He became a cultural icon in Japan and the original BHOTWG World title was retired in his honour, such is the esteem he is held in over in Japan. The dojo he trained in went on to become the Hinote Dojo, BHOTWG's training facility so even more than 40 years after his death his teachings are being used as the foundation for the biggest company in Japanese history, because he was so good in his own time that he was untouchable. There have been other great wrestlers, there have been other great trainers, and even companies who have been great... but none of the PGHW golden generation, none of the BHOTWG icons since, none of GCG's injury cursed legends ever got close to Kitozon's greatness and that's why BHOTWG to this day is still the best that Japan has ever had to offer.

 

Optimus

I accept that there may be some arguments over this one as there have been a great many incrediblly talented Junior wrestlers.... but who can say they have wielded the same influence as Optimus? Elemental may have come along a few years earlier and brought a new style of acrobaic excellence with him, but Optimus combined the acrobatics and the mysterious showmanship with technical wrestling and a career that lasted an extra decade at the highest level as he racked up literally one million Junior title wins, spawned an American version of himself, mastered the art of being both heel or face and could have a great match with anyone due to being almost unparalleled in his story telling ability. Make no mistake, Optimus' influence over the world of Junior wrestling extends far beyond Japan, with the likes of the entire CZCW roster, much of 4C, many luchadors, the entire WLW roster, the EX2010 roster and more borrowing heavily from the things he used over the course of his career. Elemental may have started the path, but Optimus widened it enough to make sure that everyone could use it and exceeded Elemental in every way.

 

Dread

Undoubtedly the best big man in wrestling history, if anyone argues that he is the best and most accomplished wrestler in history too they'd have a damn good case. Winning world titles in SWF, HGC (TCW), GCG and BHOTWG while putting on world class performances wherever he went, Dread changed what it meant to be a big man in pro wrestling. Unlike everyone else on the list, he was a career heel and I don't believe there was anyone more credible, talented and decorate who could compete with him at the same level he competed all the way until his retirement. Some might point to Rip Chord, who spent years fighting personal issues and who may have more championships in the regional days and who created his own company and school to help youngsters. Some might point to Sam Keith, who was a very different style of wrestler who also has contributed to the success of MAW and has kids in the business who will one day be legends. But Dread is also giving back through his own school dedicated to trying to replicate how good he was, so far without success because Dread is a unique talent. His own son might be good, but Dread is one of a kind and outshines all the other classic heels as outlined above, and stands alone at the top of the mountain of big men above the likes of Bruce The Giant, Vengeance, Ricky Dale Johnson or Marat Khoklov.

 

.......

 

And that's my list. I have been thinking about it a lot... there are obviously lots of other people who could make the list but most of them are fairly local successes. Most of the PGHW crew have been locked in there while PGHW has been second fiddle to BHOTWG, and had relatively short careers as a result, burning fast and bright. The Stones are all legendarily talented but stayed in Canada and had relatively small impacts on the world. Tommy Cornell is undoubtedly brilliant and influential, but he's never hit the heights of the names mentioned above despite his talents. Sean McFly was a huge talent but again hasn't done as much as he could have. Yoshifusa Maeda is a GCG icon and one of the best of all time, but locked into a company who weighed him down and his own loyalty held him back from what he could have achieved. So much talent out there. But I think the 5 mentioned above are the best the Cornellverse has ever had.

 

Outstanding post Derek!

[Matt_Black]

I think there's an argument to be made for Alicia Strong. Yes, The Divine 3 are legends, but not well known outside of Japan. J-Ro is fantastic, but she never really hit it big until after she retired. But Strong? She's the most over woman's wrestler in the world, and arguably a big part of the success of USPW in 2020. The USPW roster has thus grown to give her more opponents, and CWA, EWA, and OLLIE have likewise grown their divisions in response, not to mention CZCW and ACPW integrating their rosters.

[Jaysin]

Jay Chord

Jay Chord

Jay Chord

Jay Chord

Jay Chord

[misterioso]

- Alex DeColt

- Jack DeColt

- Ricky DeColt

- Steve DeColt

- Jack Griffith

 

 

In all seriousness, I would rank my top five of all time (in no particular order) as:

 

- Master Kitozan

- Rip Chord

- Champagne Lover

- Bruce The Giant

- Optimus

 

I think this captures a wide range of styles and eras that all leads to the modern CVerse. Tommy Cornell falls outside of it overall, as he seems to have had quite the dropoff in terms of influence since TEW 2008.

[thiagofjv]

1- Sam Strong

 

He's the guy that have molded all C-Verse. Helped to establish SWF as the biggest company in 70's and 80's, goes to Japan in 90's and helped Kikkawa to be a superstar (losing the BHOTWG World Championship to him) and in 00's he set the stone to USPW climb the mountain of american companies.

For me he's the real star of C-Verse.

 

2 - Rip Chord

 

The undisputed king of territorial era, Chord, just like your friend Strong, helped to mold the C-Verse environment, he have won titles in USA, Canada and Japan, founded MAW and helped to build a new crop of stars in american scene...

For his international relevancy i think Chord deserves the 2nd place in this list.

 

3 - Master Kitozon

 

This guy don't have the international relevancy but is the guy who make puroresu be a legitimate sport in Japan.

One of the first stars of GCG, later goes to BHOTWG and for 15 years he's almost unstoppable, beating every gaijin who comes to Japan and having become an cultural icon, his influences are still seen today even after 40 years of his death.

 

4 - Champagne Lover

El Patron is the most influential luchador of everytime but Lover has really surpassed him and now is the lucha libre's most recognized face worldwide. When i think about Lover i remember The Rock, a guy that many know not for your wrestling work, but because of movies (here in Brazil there's a lot of people who don't even know that The Rock is a wrestler).

But even with his actor career, his lucha history is very memorable, he picked one of many lucha companies and helped him to be the undeniable number one company of Mexico. And with only 38 years, maybe there will be a last run in a wrestling company?

 

5 - Yoshimi Mushashibo

 

This is the most difficult choice in this list, i'm really had doubts about choose him, Elemental or George DeColt but have decided for him because he's THE GUY in a company with the most gifted technical wrestlers of his generation.

Mushashibo is not the reason why PGHW has been established has the second force in japanese wrestling, but he's the wrestler with most PGHW Glory Crown titles (4, tied with his tag partner Shuji Inukai) and most victories in the undisputed most important (for a technical side) wrestling tournament of the world, the PGHW Elite Series. (3, tied with Koiso)

A example about his greatness, he was PGHW Glory Crown champion for THREE YEARS when Miwa, Tatsuko, Inukai, Dread and Koiso are active wrestlers, this is really a testament that Mushashibo is the most talented wrestler of all time.

 

 

The honorable mentions are the already mentioned Elemental, who change the landscape of japanese puro with his super junior style; George DeColt who was a superstar in america in 60's and 70's and made the canadian scene relevant after 70's; his antagonist Dan Stone "The Father of Canadian Wrestling"; Jack Bruce because of your relevancy for the sports entertainment in 00's and 10's, Taddiyuki Kikkawa for his rich history in CV as the japanese wrestler who beat Strong 23 years old only, he lead a rebellion and tried to change the puroresu to a more MMA style, he's undoubtedly one of the most important wrestler in the japanese scene in the last decades and Tommy Cornell because the CVerse is CVerse and not Mushashibo's Verse as i would prefer.