States and Countries

[The Blonde Bomber]

I was wondering if it’d be possible to have the different regions in the US as well as the ones in Europe to allow for more accurate simulation of different promotions. A company from Tennessee and Florida aren’t doing the same venues and fighting over the same fans.

Edited September 8, 2022 by The Blonde Bomber

[St. Templar]

I wondered this after taking a turn through WMMA. I don't know how realistic it would be to have each U.S. State serve as a different region or each European nation serve as one. But, you're absolutely right. I've been to indy shows in Alabama, Florida, Texas, Colorado, and while there are obvious similarities, there are definite nuanced differences.

St.T

 

[Vinsmoker]

This goes even more so for fans in Germany and fans in Poland. They're not even speaking the same language. There is no way you should be able to oversaturate any European region with two shows

[St. Templar]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:58 AM, Vinsmoker said:

This goes even more so for fans in Germany and fans in Poland. They're not even speaking the same language. There is no way you should be able to oversaturate any European region with two shows

I've suggested over and over again that this was the case for Europe, the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. I figure it's also the same for other areas. For the U.S., I pointed out that companies (particularly WWE) have run multiple shows in the same region for years without "oversaturating" the area. WWE runs multiple shows in a row in Florida, Texas, California, or New York and the areas aren't considered "oversaturated". Or that a company could run a show one night in Brownsville, Texas, and the next night in Oklahoma City, and these two cities being about ten hours apart would keep people from thinking the area was oversaturated, but if I do that in TEW, since they're both considered Mid South, it would oversaturate the area. Sadly, none of this seems to gather any traction. As an alternative, I've regularly suggested giving us the option to turn off the oversaturation penalty (like we can the repetitive booking penalty, show times, etc.

St.T

 

[El Güro]

4 hours ago, St. Templar said:

I've suggested over and over again that this was the case for Europe, the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. I figure it's also the same for other areas. For the U.S., I pointed out that companies (particularly WWE) have run multiple shows in the same region for years without "oversaturating" the area. WWE runs multiple shows in a row in Florida, Texas, California, or New York and the areas aren't considered "oversaturated". Or that a company could run a show one night in Brownsville, Texas, and the next night in Oklahoma City, and these two cities being about ten hours apart would keep people from thinking the area was oversaturated, but if I do that in TEW, since they're both considered Mid South, it would oversaturate the area. Sadly, none of this seems to gather any traction. As an alternative, I've regularly suggested giving us the option to turn off the oversaturation penalty (like we can the repetitive booking penalty, show times, etc.

St.T

 

CMLL is oversaturating Mexico City for almost 100 years now and still business seems good enough for them to run 5 shows per week in "Centro".

[St. Templar]

8 hours ago, El Güro said:

CMLL is oversaturating Mexico City for almost 100 years now and still business seems good enough for them to run 5 shows per week in "Centro".

Been another point I've made multiple times.

St.T

 

[The Blonde Bomber]

Oversaturation doesn’t totally make sense but also does. Maybe that can be a variable depending on the place. Some places have more diehard fans that will always come and others if you run too much they won’t come consistently. Could be associated to show quality as well.

[Kubikiri Asa]

The states and countries were available in TEW2004, but were later removed from the TEW series.

[The Blonde Bomber]

3 hours ago, Kubikiri Asa said:

The states and countries were available in TEW2004, but were later removed from the TEW series.

Why was it removed?

[Adam Ryland]

It was changed because using individual states didn't / doesn't work very well for TEW; fifty separate numbers is simply too much, both from a practical standpoint (there's only so much screen real estate - for example, if American alone takes up an entire screen then you're removing the ability to do screens where you can see a character's world popularity in one go, and lists where you have to scroll a way down just to get through America alone is not great) and conceptually (don't underestimate how off-putting a face-full of numbers is to a lot of players); in short, it's just not a good experience (I don't recommend trying to track down TEW2004, but you wouldn't have to play for very long to find out what a slog states makes the game and why people wanted it changed).

Breaking it down into smaller, more manageable chunks, like we do now, allows you to still simulate the US industry to a high degree but is far better from a gameplay and ease-of-use perspective - something backed up by the fact that the change from how it was to how it is now was very well received, hence why it has lasted for the whole rest of the series!

[KevEnoch]

It is more manageable this way. But I do agree, in particular, the South East region incorporating both Memphis AND Florida isn't really an accurate depiction of the wrestling scene. They were completely separate. On the other hand, I can see lumping in Florida and Georgia; that's fine. Georgia wrestling was kind of a satellite of Florida. Then you take Kentucky, which TEW 2020 labels as part of Mid Atlantic -- they're more of a satellite of the Memphis scene, also acting as a bridge to Ohio and the Great Lakes. Oh well. I think, ultimately, the solution is either to leave the thing unchanged or add Memphis as its own separate territory.

[The Blonde Bomber]

On 11/7/2022 at 10:26 AM, KevEnoch said:

It is more manageable this way. But I do agree, in particular, the South East region incorporating both Memphis AND Florida isn't really an accurate depiction of the wrestling scene. They were completely separate. On the other hand, I can see lumping in Florida and Georgia; that's fine. Georgia wrestling was kind of a satellite of Florida. Then you take Kentucky, which TEW 2020 labels as part of Mid Atlantic -- they're more of a satellite of the Memphis scene, also acting as a bridge to Ohio and the Great Lakes. Oh well. I think, ultimately, the solution is either to leave the thing unchanged or add Memphis as its own separate territory.

I agree with what you’re saying. I think the best way to go about this is to add a new region that encompasses Kentucky and Tennessee as their own region cause they really don’t fit in the regions they’re currently in. 
 

As a side note sticking Kansas into the Mid West. It gotta stick with Missouri. Lol

[St. Templar]

On 11/7/2022 at 9:26 AM, KevEnoch said:

It is more manageable this way. But I do agree, in particular, the South East region incorporating both Memphis AND Florida isn't really an accurate depiction of the wrestling scene. They were completely separate. On the other hand, I can see lumping in Florida and Georgia; that's fine. Georgia wrestling was kind of a satellite of Florida. Then you take Kentucky, which TEW 2020 labels as part of Mid Atlantic -- they're more of a satellite of the Memphis scene, also acting as a bridge to Ohio and the Great Lakes. Oh well. I think, ultimately, the solution is either to leave the thing unchanged or add Memphis as its own separate territory.

I would also say that it's even a bit weirder than that.

Georgia and Florida operated in close proximity, with Georgia starting out as a satellite of Florida in the NWA territories.

Southern Alabama started out as another satellite of Florida, while Huntsville and Birmingham were in the orbit of Nashville. Eventually, northern Alabama was run by Roy Welch out of Nashville. Meanwhile, Mobile stayed separate from Birmingham and more like the Florida territories (I think the City of Mobile Heavyweight Championship was officially owned by CWF for a while).

Mississippi and Arkansas were in the orbit of Mid-South (which had a Mississippi Heavyweight Championship at one point).

This is just the bulk of the South East region in the game world in real life. I could go into Mid South, too (Texas having two, then three, major territories, each with their own unique fanbases and territorial realities in Dallas, Amarillo, and, later, San Antonio; meanwhile, Houston had a truly unique situation of not really having a full-time roster but borrowing from everywhere to run weekly shows; also meanwhile, Tulsa, Oklahoma, had its own territory which expanded into Arkansas and Louisiana). We could even go into the Mid West, Tri State, and New England mess (well...messes).

I'm not sure how to really simulate all of that. I'm not sure it's realistic to expect any game to be able to realistically simulate that without offering what would essentially be an amorphous style of creating regions (which would no doubt hinder the ability of any system to simulate it without huge loading times due to pure number of regions that would have to be created). The problem with doing something along the lines of the American territory system from the heyday of the NWA would be that those territories were usually based around cities, with some cities able to expand broadly while others didn't or couldn't. That started to change in the 1980's. That leaves us with the system we have now, which allows for a somewhat realistic/really pretty good system for simulating the modern wrestling world. I've had my own comments on wishing we could have a more expansive region system. I'm also not sure what we're discussing here is realistic.

St.T

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by St. Templar

[djthefunkchris]

Too bad you can't just utilize the states, by adding something similar (but more generic) to what he did with "Sites" in CBU. Where the venues can originate there, and as long as you go to a different "site/state", nothing different would have to be shown far as still get the screen saying such and such at venue had event... just a way to separate the venues really, so wrestling in Georgia isn't the same as Wrestling in Florida (for negatives/over saturating, etc.) but you'd still effect the whole region with your show good or bad. - After thinking about that, it would be pretty major work I think, as so many things would have to be changed.

[The Blonde Bomber]

13 minutes ago, djthefunkchris said:

Too bad you can't just utilize the states, by adding something similar (but more generic) to what he did with "Sites" in CBU. Where the venues can originate there, and as long as you go to a different "site/state", nothing different would have to be shown far as still get the screen saying such and such at venue had event... just a way to separate the venues really, so wrestling in Georgia isn't the same as Wrestling in Florida (for negatives/over saturating, etc.) but you'd still effect the whole region with your show good or bad. - After thinking about that, it would be pretty major work I think, as so many things would have to be changed.

I haven't checked out CBU but this would be an interesting concept to put into TEW if it's possible.

[Kubikiri Asa]

The game is built and balanced for running the C-Verse (which is a ficitonal game world). So it's no longer built for simulating the real world like previous games (TEW2004 etc.)

That's the reason why the regions and countries don't really make any sense in TEW2020. Like Scandinavia also including countries that are not part of Scandinavia in reality and don't share a close related language or Mid Atlantic suddenly moving from Great Lakes (where it was placed in earlier games) to Mid Atlantic.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Kubikiri Asa

[Adam Ryland]

None of the TEW games have ever been built for the default data. The ethos has always been to create something that can work for as many mods as possible. It's been publicly confirmed by multiple testers over the years that the default data is the absolute last thing to be designed and written, done while the testers are busy with final testing. The Cornellverse is built around whatever new features have been added in order to showcase them; it'd be an insane way of developing a game to work the other way around.

[DAVEFAN95]

What if popularity for workers and companies was still based on regions (as it is now) but locations where shows were being held and where companies were based were more detailed. You could also have a "home town" detail for workers so could be based somewhere else but are from or billed from another. 

 

For example, CZCW is based in the south west and in it's profile it states it's HQ is in California. However, the south west covers a lot of states other than California, such as Nevada, Utah and Arizona. In truth, a regional (or small in TEW terms) company from California isn't going to draw as many fans in, let's say Utah, as it's not in it's stronghold in California and of course, the potential fan base of wrestling in California would be a lot larger than Utah, based purely on their populations. 

 

So maybe you could set CZCW's South West pop to 40 (as it is in 2020 default data) have them based in California but put a modifier on how many people they would draw to their shows in that region but not in that state. For example, in California with 40 pop in SW region they draw 1308 (first show of 2020 in a watcher game I have) people. However if that was held in, let's again say, Utah. Due to it being held away from their stronghold and home base, plus with Utah having a smaller potential fan base, they might draw 65% of what they would have in California which would be 850. Of course there would be more modifiers (pop of workers in main event, storyline heat, industry etc) but this is just a example of what you could do. Also the 65% was just a random number, I'm sure you could come up some with some kind of formula that would allow you to create the modifier for what they'd draw in a state that's not their home base which would take potential fan base, distance from home base, possible popular/unpopular products that state has etc into account when calculating. 

 

It would also allow you to break into other regions easier. For example, holding a show in Arizona would give you more spill over in the Mid South region, then holding it in California would, but you'd probably earn less money. 

 

This would also allow a hometown face to draw more fans in certain states. 

 

You could also set a stronghold for bigger promotions too but as regions. So, SWF's stronghold might be New England, Tri State, Mid Atlantic and Great Lakes, while TCW's would be in the South West and Mid South. You could also have stronghold turned off for bigger companies as in modern wrestling these aren't really an issue anymore but in the past (Monday night wars, Territory days) they have been as WWE had a bigger audience in the North East while WCW had a bigger fanbase in the South/South East. 

[St. Templar]

On 12/4/2022 at 8:40 AM, DAVEFAN95 said:

What if popularity for workers and companies was still based on regions (as it is now) but locations where shows were being held and where companies were based were more detailed. You could also have a "home town" detail for workers so could be based somewhere else but are from or billed from another. 

 

For example, CZCW is based in the south west and in it's profile it states it's HQ is in California. However, the south west covers a lot of states other than California, such as Nevada, Utah and Arizona. In truth, a regional (or small in TEW terms) company from California isn't going to draw as many fans in, let's say Utah, as it's not in it's stronghold in California and of course, the potential fan base of wrestling in California would be a lot larger than Utah, based purely on their populations. 

 

So maybe you could set CZCW's South West pop to 40 (as it is in 2020 default data) have them based in California but put a modifier on how many people they would draw to their shows in that region but not in that state. For example, in California with 40 pop in SW region they draw 1308 (first show of 2020 in a watcher game I have) people. However if that was held in, let's again say, Utah. Due to it being held away from their stronghold and home base, plus with Utah having a smaller potential fan base, they might draw 65% of what they would have in California which would be 850. Of course there would be more modifiers (pop of workers in main event, storyline heat, industry etc) but this is just a example of what you could do. Also the 65% was just a random number, I'm sure you could come up some with some kind of formula that would allow you to create the modifier for what they'd draw in a state that's not their home base which would take potential fan base, distance from home base, possible popular/unpopular products that state has etc into account when calculating. 

 

It would also allow you to break into other regions easier. For example, holding a show in Arizona would give you more spill over in the Mid South region, then holding it in California would, but you'd probably earn less money. 

 

This would also allow a hometown face to draw more fans in certain states. 

 

You could also set a stronghold for bigger promotions too but as regions. So, SWF's stronghold might be New England, Tri State, Mid Atlantic and Great Lakes, while TCW's would be in the South West and Mid South. You could also have stronghold turned off for bigger companies as in modern wrestling these aren't really an issue anymore but in the past (Monday night wars, Territory days) they have been as WWE had a bigger audience in the North East while WCW had a bigger fanbase in the South/South East. 

I like this idea, but it seems like by doing that we're just creating "mini-regions" within each region.

St.T

 

[DAVEFAN95]

13 hours ago, St. Templar said:

I like this idea, but it seems like by doing that we're just creating "mini-regions" within each region.

St.T

 

I can understand this but I guess in a way the regions would just be basic indicator of where the company or worker is most popular or where they draw the most people. Things like potential fan base and popularity spill over would become exclusive to states or countries and removed from regions. In truth, regions would mostly be removed except in worker/company popularity, so that page/screen wouldn't be so cluttered. 

 

[ChrisGhensi]

Slightly different but as someone who lives and wrestles in Queensland in Australia, I really feel like it should be split into North and South Queensland. While it is all the same state, there are major differences between the two sides. (Not to mention that Queensland alone is bigger than any of the US regions). On the Total Extreme Maps guide it actually shows Cairns (the city I live in) and Brisbane both in Queensland and I can tell you from experience the wrestling scenes are vastly different here. And finally, if I were to add companies and wrestlers from both sides of Queensland, it would totally oversaturate the market, whereas having it split into North and South would make it a lot more sustainable.

[SkyCrasher]

I'd say it should be more of a priority to support the regions that aren't supported at all (Africa, South America, the rest of Asia) before figuring out these smaller differences