Title Prestige

[JS The Monster]

How can you change the prestige of a title? I have had a top star win my world title and it's prestige droped. And what does title prestige mean?

[Gremlinator]

It means how highly rated the title is in the promotion. And you can't really change the prestige, I for one haven't had much luck with that, I mean Tommy Cornell defend the title on a regular basis and yet the prestige dropped rapidly.

[MarcK]

From what I understand, prestige is increased by having high-quality title defenses (and lowered by low-quality). Likewise, a prestigious title being defended can increase the quality of the match a bit.

[D-Lyrium]

It's heavily influenced by Momentum, too. If you have Tommy Cornell winning the TCW World Title with F+ momentum, it's going to tank. It'd be David Arquette 2007. But with workrate. Ok, maybe that's an exaggeration, but Diesel 2007 at least.

[Tigerkinney]

In a non Entertainment fed it's very much about the wrestlers involved putting on high quality matches. Here's an example I won't use any names because , it might count as a spoiler for anyone who reads my diary. But anyway my X-Division title was at 47.0 I had my champion put it on the line against someone who would not normally get a title shot (the person won a match where a lower-carder is rewarded with a title shot if he won). My champion had a match against the Lower-carder for the title and they put on a mediocre C Rated match, the prestige of the title dropped to 46.3 At a PPV I had a match set up where my champion would put his title on the line against a challenger from Japan. The challenger from Japan had the skill but sod all overness in Canada. Despite the Japanese guy not having any overness they still put on a good B rated match, the title's prestige shot up by a full percentage point to 47.3. So the main thing to help with your title's prestige is to keep having good matches. I've managed to get my main title up from around 85 at the start of the game to a bit over 91 , because the people involved keep putting on A* matches.

[James Casey]

Match quality does seem to be the deciding factor, as my MAW Mid-Atlantic title is not at 100% after routinely being involved in the best match on my card. The caliber of champion may affect this as well - the title should be held by the people suited to the job. I'm not sure if having someone higher up the card will effect the prestige of a mid/low card title, but having someone below the appropriate level hold it will cause prestige to drop - or at least slow the rate of progress if they're putting on great matches.

[Remianen]

I still haven't figured out title prestige and I've pretty much stopped caring about it. All of the things detailed in this thread have had no bearing in my games. Running 5SSW, I took the World title off Crusher Ichihara and put it on Kit Hatoyama. She held it for a few months and saw the prestige plummet 8 percent while she put on B or better rated matches. So I took the title off Kit and put it on Sensational Ogiwara. There is no one in that promotion more skilled or over. The match she beat Kit for the title rated A. Since then, she's defended it in B+, B+, B+, A, A, B+, A* matches and still the prestige drops (though not nearly as quickly as it did on Kit). My tag titles are the same way. Megumi Nakajima & J.Ro have held them for 7 months and generally can carry most teams to a C+ to B+ rated match. It's a midcard belt and now Megumi & J.Ro are main eventers based on the strength of their tag matches (since becoming a tag team, they haven't wrestle any singles matches. They're exclusively a tag team), going from E overness to C- and maintaining C+ to B momentum but I still lose prestige on the title (an A rated match might raise it since B+ seems to be the break even point). Alicia Strong with the All-Asian title is the same way. It loses 0.1-0.3 prestige every time out and she can drag even Seiko Nanami's limited ass to a B rated match. I just don't get it. Especially since, from day one, 5SSW can put on better matches than MAW. That isn't a dig on MAW, just saying that 5SSW starts with a lot better in-ring talent. So I just ignore the prestige for now. Of course, keeping with "the watched pot never boils" line of thinking, once I do ignore it, they'll all start to skyrocket inexplicably (which will drive me NUTS since I'll have to figure out HOW).

[James Casey]

Bear in mind that prestige is relative to the company that the title belongs to. I'm not sure where 5SSW stand in terms of size, but they're probably bigger than MAW, which is currently Local in my game.

[Derek B]

Titles being defended by people who are the wrong card position for the belt will lower the prestige of the belt. So having midcarders winning main event belts or main eventers holding midcard belts will lower the prestige of the belt as it isn't being treated in the way it should be treated. While it may seem odd that main eventers holding a midcard belt seems to lower the prestige, just remember what happened to the IC belt when lots of uppercard guys were switching it between them.... IMO at least, it just became a second main event belt while that was tossed at guys that weren't good enough to main event RATHER than as a proper second tier belt for developing stars. Also if you fail to have clear cut finishes this tends to reduce the prestige of the belt too. Lots of run ins, lots of indecisive finishes, lots of DQs and the likes will cause the prestige of the belt to drop, generally speaking.... however this can be counterbalanced somewhat by having enough good things going on (correct level champions, strong matches etc) The company size itself has no relevance on title prestige as the prestige itself is a "within company" prestige, simply saying that the fans view the belt as being really important to the company (when high, a la ROH) or just a piece of tin to be thrown onto anyone (a la WCW before closure). Derek B

[eayragt]

[QUOTE=derek_b;198420][B]Also if you fail to have clear cut finishes this tends to reduce the prestige of the belt too. Lots of run ins, lots of indecisive finishes, lots of DQs and the likes will cause the prestige of the belt to drop, generally speaking.... however this can be counterbalanced somewhat by having enough good things going on (correct level champions, strong matches etc)[/B] [/QUOTE] Quoted in case someone skim reads over this, as it plays a large part. Tainted wins, DQ's and even draws (maybe) aren't good for prestige!

[Anubis]

[QUOTE=eayragt;198445]Quoted in case someone skim reads over this, as it plays a large part. Tainted wins, DQ's and even draws (maybe) aren't good for prestige![/QUOTE] That sucks and is totally unrealistic. I point to Ric Flair's many reigns as NWA World Heavyweight Champion as the ultimate in proof. The big problem I have is that the "standard" for "quality" seems to be the same regardless of promotion size, which is beyond silly. Running a Local promotion, there is no way whatsoever to gain prestige for the titles because you [i]can't[/i] put on matches rated higher than D or maybe C if you're lucky. Yet the standard [i]always[/i] seems to be needing a B- or above to gain prestige, despite that being an impossible goal for the smallest promotions. If title prestige is independent of promotion size, then so too should the standards for quality. A Local promotion should only need like an E or a D to gain presitige, while a Global promotion should probably need A or A* ratings to gain prestige. Maybe something like this: Global: A to maintain prestige, A* to gain International: B+ to maintain prestige, A to gain National: B to maintain prestige, B+ to gain Cult: C to maintain prestige, B to gain Regional: D to maintain prestige, C to gain Small: E+ to maintain prestige, D to gain Local: E- to maintain prestige, E+ to gain These would be for main event level titles. For midcard, lower all required grades by one step, and for low level, lower all required grades by two steps. That's how I think it shoudl be. Right now, it just seems kinda random and illogical.

[Blackman]

[QUOTE=Remianen;198348] I just don't get it. Especially since, from day one, 5SSW can put on better matches than MAW. That isn't a dig on MAW, just saying that 5SSW starts with a lot better in-ring talent. So I just ignore the prestige for now. Of course, keeping with "the watched pot never boils" line of thinking, once I do ignore it, they'll all start to skyrocket inexplicably (which will drive me NUTS since I'll have to figure out HOW).[/QUOTE] That's weird cause I've got Sensational defending it in average 'B' matches, and it rockets up in the air towards the maximum. Maybe it takes the match rating in account in accordance to the other matches on the card. I always defend the main title in the main event, about 3/4 times a month. Ogiwara hasn't got much of a 'destiny' in my game, and she puts on sub par matches compared to the other face main eventers for some strange reason (only got A once in 3 friggin' years). The all-asian title has been at 70% for years now, and I can't seem to get it to drop in any way. The tag titles are different. They are about 50% only and I can't get them to rise. But that's prolly because I don't care a single bit about the Tag Titles. Anyhow, the theory about high match quality seems right to me, but I should take the relative quality into account too.

[Derek B]

[QUOTE=Anubis;198494]That sucks and is totally unrealistic. I point to Ric Flair's many reigns as NWA World Heavyweight Champion as the ultimate in proof. The big problem I have is that the "standard" for "quality" seems to be the same regardless of promotion size, which is beyond silly. Running a Local promotion, there is no way whatsoever to gain prestige for the titles because you [i]can't[/i] put on matches rated higher than D or maybe C if you're lucky. Yet the standard [i]always[/i] seems to be needing a B- or above to gain prestige, despite that being an impossible goal for the smallest promotions. If title prestige is independent of promotion size, then so too should the standards for quality. A Local promotion should only need like an E or a D to gain presitige, while a Global promotion should probably need A or A* ratings to gain prestige. Maybe something like this: Global: A to maintain prestige, A* to gain International: B+ to maintain prestige, A to gain National: B to maintain prestige, B+ to gain Cult: C to maintain prestige, B to gain Regional: D to maintain prestige, C to gain Small: E+ to maintain prestige, D to gain Local: E- to maintain prestige, E+ to gain These would be for main event level titles. For midcard, lower all required grades by one step, and for low level, lower all required grades by two steps. That's how I think it shoudl be. Right now, it just seems kinda random and illogical.[/QUOTE] My local promotion's main title maxed out at 100 after starting at 80 when Davis Wayne Newton was my champ. He was E over across the country at the time so I'm going to say you are just wrong. Of course, he was defending the belt in decisive wins over other main event level people on a regular (monthly) basis since that was how frequently I was running shows. His best match ever was a B- but he generally averaged a C rating with some matches dropping as low as D- all while I was F- or F over. I don't see your argument there... The only thing I can agree with is the Ric Flair thing. But even while he was cheating to win the most prestigious belt in the world..... that was one title compared to many and the game isn't designed to play as a Territories scenario. While Flair was undoubtedly a legendary champion, his reigns in a modern era wouldn't go down as well as they could. Just look at every time a major title is defended in a non-decisive way and the response that gets from fans for an example. Derek B

[soundsofsilver]

I have to say the title prestige system is sort of lame. I'm thinking mainly in terms of entertainment promotions, but cheap finishes are sort of expected for heel champions. That's a classic story of wrestling, the heel champion escapes by cheating while the face contender chases and eventually overcomes the odds and wins the belt. Also, I don't know that in an entertainment promotion, in-ring skill should affect title prestige any more than overness. Hulk Hogan was the WWF Champ for over half of 1984-1993, and the IC Title was generally on more talented workers, yet clearly the World Title was more prestigious. What was more prestigious, Diesel's World Title or HBK's IC Title? And so on and so forth.

[Anubis]

I tried running a Local promotion, and even when using some of the best workers possible (in CornellVerse even), I wasn't able to ever get any match ratings over C, and even those were very rare. How the bloody heck are you getting such good match ratings from these people? I don't see it. I even had Davis Wayne Newton and Bulldozer Brandon Smith for a short time (though they ended up being way too expensive for a Local promotion), and they needed a miracle to garner a C rating. I was also never able to get the main event title prestige to stay above the minimum of 70 at any point.

[Derek B]

I got lucky with some chemistry... and I never said I was making money, I just wasn't losing very much at the time. My average match on my shows was usually a D or perhaps a D- but my main event matches were between guys like the Bumfholes, DWN and Thomas Morgan (I'm playing in Canada) so those matches rated pretty well. and of course, it depends on the product settings. That lot fit well and their good talents helped to pull the ratings up (with help from Rafael Ruiz on road agent/jobber duties). My shows weren't great and the sole B- I've had in my 30ish shows was from a talent trade for American Elemental that really surprised me. I was hoping for a C and was stunned. I'm not gonna claim I'm doing great, since I lost most of those guys (they signed for big people, got over and refused to resign with me) I've been getting D+ shows and few matches above a C- even with Alicia Strong and the Gauge brothers headlining frequently. It hurts but I'm still gaining and I'm almost at regional too. My title prestige took some knocks from times when it's been vacated (twice, damn champions leaving day after my shows) or not defended because of my own storylines. I'm down to about 88 prestige but it's still fairly strong. Needless to say, I miss my own glory days from when I was small....

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Anubis;198494]The big problem I have is that the "standard" for "quality" seems to be the same regardless of promotion size, which is beyond silly.[/QUOTE] Derek is correct, what you're saying is flat out wrong, and I have no idea how you ended up with that conclusion. [QUOTE]Also, I don't know that in an entertainment promotion, in-ring skill should affect title prestige any more than overness. Hulk Hogan was the WWF Champ for over half of 1984-1993, and the IC Title was generally on more talented workers, yet clearly the World Title was more prestigious. What was more prestigious, Diesel's World Title or HBK's IC Title? And so on and so forth.[/QUOTE] Not sure where you came up with that idea - if it is an entertainment promotion then the match ratings are based more on overness than skill anyway, so what you're saying already is simulated.

[James Casey]

My MAW Main Event has, over the eighteen months or so I've been running the game, been comprised primarily of Steven Parker, Des Davids, DC Rayne, Jean Cattley, Eddie Howard and Marc Speed - the only outsider I signed and gave a ME push. With those, I'd say the average match quality has been around a C+, helped immensely by Jean Cattley's inability to work less than a C match with anyone. It's certainly possible to put on high quality matches with Local feds, provided you have one or two (or six) good workers - but the offset of that is that I lose around $1000 a month (Free Style - if I had to work Straight Edge, my roster would be a lot smaller), and my undercard is stacked with $100 a show workers generally ranking in the low Ds for match quality. As has been pointed out elsewhere, title prestige is internal to the promotion. Can anyone confirm whether or not it has an effect on the popularity of your company? It seems it should have a measurable impact, but I've no idea how you'd tell as you can't advance book title matches - just matches.

[soundsofsilver]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;198717]Not sure where you came up with that idea - if it is an entertainment promotion then the match ratings are based more on overness than skill anyway, so what you're saying already is simulated.[/QUOTE] My main reason was that every time I had Bruce the Giant defend the USPW Title, the prestige went down, even though he is significantly more over than anyone else in the promotion.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=soundsofsilver;198826]My main reason was that every time I had Bruce the Giant defend the USPW Title, the prestige went down, even though he is significantly more over than anyone else in the promotion.[/QUOTE] I don't really see your point. Unless you're suggesting that a title reign by an "over" worker absolutely cannot flop, then it appears to be doing its job. Bruce may well be your most over worker, it doesn't mean you're booking him well, the title reign is being booked well, or anything like that.

[soundsofsilver]

Are you suggesting that [B][U]I[/U][/B] might not be booking perfectly!?!?! I'm offended! I've been playing this game since EW5000 came out, I think I know how to book my World Champion! No but really, you're probably right. My problem is I see people talk about all these "A" shows they get with MAW and how their Title prestige is through the roof through great matches, whereas I'm not the type to go for A matches all the time, I just book it like I think it would be booked in real life. And through his feud with T-Rex, the Title Prestige has been dropping. Ah well.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=soundsofsilver;198860]And through his feud with T-Rex, the Title Prestige has been dropping. Ah well.[/QUOTE] T-Rex might be your problem, you should try feeding Bruce guys who can actually work a match, and see if that helps. Remember, no matter how over someone is, if they put on sucky matches every single night the fans will eventually turn on them.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=soundsofsilver;198860]No but really, you're probably right. My problem is I see people talk about all these "A" shows they get with MAW and how their Title prestige is through the roof through great matches, whereas I'm not the type to go for A matches all the time, I just book it like I think it would be booked in real life. And through his feud with T-Rex, the Title Prestige has been dropping. Ah well.[/QUOTE] You're comparing apples to oranges. Of course people with MAW can put on A shows. MAW's product values in-ring skill above all else. As I said, there are a TON more talented in-ring performers in the game but relatively few people with tons of overness. If you're running USPW, you don't have nearly as many talented in-ring performers as a MAW would have, because your fans don't care about in-ring performance as much as they do 'name value'. The problem is, at some point, you NEED to have someone with both overness and in-ring skill (at least a little bit of skill) to really get those high tier ratings. Try this as an experiment to see what I mean. Clone your savegame the day of your next event. Then, in that copy, raise Bruce's in-ring skills to the C/B range (just rumble/tech/aerial) and give him some performance skill (say, raise his basics, psych, safety, selling to 80 or B). Then run your show and see how his match rates out. I'd guess it would be around B+ or A, depending on who he's working with. Now, that's for a promotion where overness is king. That's also why losing someone like Darryl Devine is crippling for USPW. He's probably the only person on the day 1 roster who has in-ring talent worth mentioning. Getting him over is EASY but it'll also lead to him catching SWF's eye. Someone like Alicia Strong is a no brainer pickup (at least to me) because she has a built-in relationship there which would make her harder to steal away (at least in theory. Dunno if blood relation works as well as straight loyalty though).

[soundsofsilver]

Yeah, I don't have TEW right now, I forgot to unlicense it at home, but Darryl Devine was definitely the main person I was planning on pushing to the Main Event. USPW is tough because Bruce the Giant is the only guy who is really over, and all the other main eventers have overness in the C range. I brought in Grandmaster Phunk, and think he could have a feud with Bruce the Giant and carry him pretty well, but they're both in other storylines right now. (Bruce with T-Rex, and Phunk with JD Morgan & Henry Lee) I don't think I'm going to play my USPW game anymore now that DOTT has come out, however. So it's not really important. :)

[Anubis]

I was wondering, what setting determines if in-ring ability or overness is more important? I am trying to set the product rating for my fictional Imperia Wrestling Franchise, and given how the e-fed was run, I am having a ton of difficulty figuring it out to where the promotion can be successful. You see, almost any style is supposed to fit in, including the Entertainer style; Luchador is pretty much the only style that doesn't fit in. Still, the promotion is also supposed to be popular based on the in-ring work more than anything, so that makes it tough. Here is how it's set up thus far: Cult, Modern, and Realism are set to Key Feature Risque, Hyper Realism, and Hardcore are set to Heavy Traditional, Mainstream, and Daredevil are set to Medium Comedy is set to Low Pure is set to Very Low Lucha Libre is set to None So how would this promotion work out? Would it determine ratings on in-ring work or overness? Would it get the effect I'm looking for?