WWE/Steroids

[AfRoMaN36]

The first offense is a month long suspension. They ALL served it. Orton served it. RVD served it when Heyman "Suspended" him Sabu simply vanished for a month Masters vanished and returned half his size a month later. After three strikes, you're out. However, if the WWE is angry enough with you (Kurt, Test) You may just get fired.

[PeterHilton]

Wait...do you seriously think that the WWE "punishes" the drug offenders? Before this phony policy came along, the primary reason that wrestlers used steroids/HGH/whatever was become the way people got pushed made individuals decide between their health and their livelihood. Do we really have ot list all the former WWF wrestlers who died far too early? You're listing recent examples, but this issue has been around since the early 70s. You can find singular exceptions, but as a whole. Gadzinski is right: the WWE and the bookers make decisions based on image or profit more than on the health and welfare of their workers. But this is not some stupid interpromotional pissing contest WWE isn't innocent. TNA isn't innocent. I don't blame the wrestlers. As long as promoters choose to make "the look" more important than any actual skill or training, then guys will continue to put their lives at stake to try and get a paycheck.

[MightyDavidson]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;213679]Wait...do you seriously think that the WWE "punishes" the drug offenders? Before this phony policy came along, the primary reason that wrestlers used steroids/HGH/whatever was become the way people got pushed made individuals decide between their health and their livelihood. Do we really have ot list all the former WWF wrestlers who died far too early? You're listing recent examples, but this issue has been around since the early 70s. You can find singular exceptions, but as a whole. Gadzinski is right: the WWE and the bookers make decisions based on image or profit more than on the health and welfare of their workers. But this is not some stupid interpromotional pissing contest WWE isn't innocent. TNA isn't innocent. I don't blame the wrestlers. As long as promoters choose to make "the look" more important than any actual skill or training, then guys will continue to put their lives at stake to try and get a paycheck.[/QUOTE] I never said TNA was innocent, just that they weren't more guilty simply because they didn't flaunt a Wellness Policy to every news site that would listen. But essentially you and Gadzinski are right, more's the pity. In fact the last time I can remember a WWE [or more accurately WWF since they were still called that when it happened] wrestler being actually punished for a drug offence was when the Iron Shiek was fired from the WWF for being caught with, as I recall, some cocaine in his car.

[AfRoMaN36]

I disagree greatly. And I'm personally getting tired of all of these people who only seem interested in bashing the WWE. Promotional pissing contest or not. You do not work backstage and see how things are run and after Eddies death the WWE CHOSE to put this in place and werent forced to by congress. Because when an Eddie Gurrerro dies you step up to make sure it doesnt happen anymore. And why would they put this in just so that internet fans can bash them for it? The first penalty for a first time offense was a straight 1 month suspension. But after it disrupted many storylines all at once, they changed it so that the first time rule breakers would pay a fine, and would work for a month without pay. And in my mind, thats worse. I honestly dont get where this "WAHH, THEY ONLY SUSPEND PEOPLE THEY DONT NEED" attitude comes from, since they handed the ball to Rob Van Dam. A man who has a fan base arguably bigger than all but 5 people in the WWE and a man who held 2 world championships at once. Instead of doing the profitable thing and kept him, they suspended him and de-pushed him. and as much as I love Rob, he gets everything he deserved for being an idiot. Is RVD not big enough for some of you? Lets bring up Kurt Angle. Who was not only suspended, but let go by the WWE and told to take care of his personal demons and rest his aching body before we welcome you back. It isnt the WWE's fault Kurt has lost one of his three I's (Intelligence) and joined TNA. You can list these guys all you want, but if you now fail a drug test for the first time you wont get paind. And worse case scenario you will be canned. Whether Vince likes your physique or not. (Call Andrew Martin and ask him how his push whent from sitting on a championship match at the Rumble, to sitting at home, eating doritos.) Note: I'm sorry is some of you may find my tone a bit harsh, but Im not in a good mood today.

[djthefunkchris]

Really, you bring up a great point. The WWE does NOT HAVE TO have any type of drug policy at all. They CHOOSE to. That say's alot without having to investigate any further.

[MightyDavidson]

But the wellness policy clearly says they should be fired if they violate it, not suspended. If they had stuck to thier guns and backed up this policy, I wouldn't be bashing them right now. Sure it would've been upsetting to lose RVD but as you say, it's his own fault. Instead they got all wishy washy about enforcing the rule and the wrestlers involved got the equivalent of a slap on the wrist. This makes the wellness policy ineffective and why it's considered a joke. Yes, Test was canned because of it, hopefully this means that the WWE intends to finally back up thier words and come down hard on those who violate the wellness policy.

[MightyDavidson]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;213692]Really, you bring up a great point. The WWE does NOT HAVE TO have any type of drug policy at all. They CHOOSE to. That say's alot without having to investigate any further.[/QUOTE] They merely need to enforce it better.

[D16NJD16]

The purpose of the WWE Wellness Policy is to cover their ass if another wrestler dies on their watch. Fact.

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE=D16NJD16;213699]The purpose of the WWE Wellness Policy is to cover their ass if another wrestler dies on their watch. Fact.[/QUOTE] Sure because if another worker dies from steroids with a wellness policy in tact.... Im sure it wouldnt make them look bad at all. (Note Sarcasm) and for proof of the suspesnion part [url]http://corporate.wwe.com/documents/TalentWellnessProgramOutline2-27-06CORPweb.pdf[/url] It clearly states a first time offense means youre gone for a month, second time is for 2 months and the third time, youre out. (and you should also get your head examined.)

[MightyDavidson]

Then they've changed it since it was first impemented, and in my opinion for the worst. When it first was implemented they made it clear that somebody was to be fired for violation of it, it should've remained that way.

[AfRoMaN36]

Well, with the firing of Test, lets hope they turned for the better. (He WAS being pushed to the moon afterall) But remember, they really dont need to have a wellness policy at all. I just get bugged by the people who chose to use the wellness policy to bash the WWE for some reason as if Vince isnt humwn, but a pitch fork owning ass who doesnt care about anyone. Those people need to wash their face,look in the mirror and realize that the Mr. McMahon gimmick is just that.... a gimmick.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=MightyDavidson;213710]Then they've changed it since it was first impemented, and in my opinion for the worst. When it first was implemented they made it clear that somebody was to be fired for violation of it, it should've remained that way.[/QUOTE] I aggree to an extent, but I can imagine some reasons why they changed it. 1. Had no idea how huge the problem was. 2. If they enforced it, the problem of having 1/4th of a roster left over. I mean look at thier problems... Master's, Boogieman, Angle, Test. Probably Batista and Big Show at some point I wouldn't rule out half the dang roster, and most of the one's on the higher cards. Then there is the obvious possibility of kicking their best talent to the curb, just to be picked up by TNA, which, I cannot help NOT believing that this is an actual part of the agenda...... WWE Should get rid of everyone without hesitation so TNA can pick them up.

[MightyDavidson]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;213713]Well, with the firing of Test, lets hope they turned for the better. (He WAS being pushed to the moon afterall) But remember, they really dont need to have a wellness policy at all. I just get bugged by the people who chose to use the wellness policy to bash the WWE for some reason as if Vince isnt humwn, but a pitch fork owning ass who doesnt care about anyone. Those people need to wash their face,look in the mirror and realize that the Mr. McMahon gimmick is just that.... a gimmick.[/QUOTE] I do realise that. As I said before, I'm not bashing them for the sake of bashing the WWE, I'm bashing them because I belive thier wellness policy isn't being enforced well enough to the extent that I belive it's a paper tiger. The issue is not that Vince is evil, the issue is that in my opinion the wellness policy is not being implemented well enough. If you're gonna have the policy then go all the way with it. That's my opinion on the matter.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;213707]Sure because if another worker dies from steroids with a wellness policy in tact.... Im sure it wouldnt make them look bad at all. (Note Sarcasm)[/QUOTE] Jesus Afroman, are you THAT gullible?? Your sarcasm is misplaced since you obviously have zero clue on how corporate politics work. Lemme try to 'splain it to you. After Eddie's death, a problem was "discovered" (more like unearthed and exposed to the light of day) regarding steroid use amongst the workers. WWE LEGAL came up with the idea for a Wellness Program to COVER THEIR ASSES should a similar situation arise. If they had not and someone else died, it would give a basis for 'gross negligence' as in, the employer knew there was a problem (or, had reasonable reason to suspect it) and chose to turn a blind eye. That second wrestler's family would then sue WWE for wrongful death. Before you come out with the old tired "they wouldn't win!" argument, realize that most times, settling a lawsuit out of court is more economically palatable to a publicly traded company whose name constitutes a brand (see: American Express, Microsoft, McDonald's, etc). The public tainting of the brand that a full blown trial would generate would do far more financial damage. If a woman accuses a man of rape, whether he's innocent or not, the perception from that day on is that he's a rapist. Works similarly for corporations. How many sexual harassment lawsuits have you heard of recently? Does that mean no one's filing them or are they just not getting to see a courtroom? Maybe do a little looking into the 'tort reform' movement. You'll find that most 'personal injury' attorneys have little in the way of courtroom skills since they do their business in conference rooms, mostly. File suit, company offers money to make it go away, case settled. I completely disagree with Madman Jack's line of thinking. That sounds eerily similar to the "violent video games make kids violent" garbage that's been spewed over the last 5 years. So you see someone with a puffed up look get pushed. Do you not have two brain cells to rub together or enough capital to buy a clue and realize that there are also people WITHOUT that look who get pushed? Oh but by and large, those people have....what's the word I'm looking for.....oh yeah, TALENT to justify their pushes. Or, as in the case of Umaga, you have a tried and true heritage that lends itself to a tried and true gimmick. So, Umaga's getting a major push which should make Americans giddy, being the fattest country per capita on the planet (yeah, I went there). Afroman, going by your line of thinking, major league baseball would've instituted a "tough" drug testing program even without BALCO. (If you believe that, I have some oceanfront property in Nevada that's looking for a buyer) Let's be clear. The look on many of WWE's wrestlers are/were good for business. Just like those moonshot home runs were good for business for baseball. The NFL had nothing to lose and everything to gain, business wise, in terms of PR, by rolling out their drug policy (back in the early 90s even). The people in the NFL who would use steroids aren't generally the people the fans come to see (quick, name four defensive tackles or 5 offensive linemen!). And despite what you might think, not everyone who states an opinion contrary to the company line is 'bashing' said company.

[Tyler Gadzinski]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;213685]I disagree greatly. And I'm personally getting tired of all of these people who only seem interested in bashing the WWE. Promotional pissing contest or not. You do not work backstage and see how things are run and after Eddies death the WWE CHOSE to put this in place and werent forced to by congress. Because when an Eddie Gurrerro dies you step up to make sure it doesnt happen anymore. And why would they put this in just so that internet fans can bash them for it? The first penalty for a first time offense was a straight 1 month suspension. But after it disrupted many storylines all at once, they changed it so that the first time rule breakers would pay a fine, and would work for a month without pay. And in my mind, thats worse. I honestly dont get where this "WAHH, THEY ONLY SUSPEND PEOPLE THEY DONT NEED" attitude comes from, since they handed the ball to Rob Van Dam. A man who has a fan base arguably bigger than all but 5 people in the WWE and a man who held 2 world championships at once. Instead of doing the profitable thing and kept him, they suspended him and de-pushed him. and as much as I love Rob, he gets everything he deserved for being an idiot. Is RVD not big enough for some of you? Lets bring up Kurt Angle. Who was not only suspended, but let go by the WWE and told to take care of his personal demons and rest his aching body before we welcome you back. It isnt the WWE's fault Kurt has lost one of his three I's (Intelligence) and joined TNA. You can list these guys all you want, but if you now fail a drug test for the first time you wont get paind. And worse case scenario you will be canned. Whether Vince likes your physique or not. (Call Andrew Martin and ask him how his push whent from sitting on a championship match at the Rumble, to sitting at home, eating doritos.) Note: I'm sorry is some of you may find my tone a bit harsh, but Im not in a good mood today.[/QUOTE] OK first I highly doubt you work backstage for WWE so how would you know how things are run.. second if your gonna mention someone at least spell there name right.. Eddie Guerrero was a great and should not have his image ruined because there are rumors he died of steroids.. show the man respect love him or hate you better damn respect him. Im not saying TNA is making a smart choice to not run a wellness program it is better that they dont though so they dont have this kind of crap going on.. Steiner.. I wouldnt doubt he did steroids at some point in time.. hell even Edge did steroids and dont say he didnt cuz he admitted he did that was the past. as for Kurt who says he got released by WWE I truly feel he left cuz Vince gave Rey time off before him and Kurt broke his neck and Rey had a bad knee and Vince wouldnt give Kurt time off to take care of his Drug Problem. about Andrew "Test" Martin lets face it he never shouldve been brought back he wasnt over before and he wont the second time he signs with them. if you really wanna go into who does steroids.. lets talk about Snitsky, Batista, Lashley(wouldnt doubt it), Cena.. but then again you prolly like the no talent Cena. Batista and Cena would make a great team called No Talent 2006 this is ridiculus that Cena gets the belt over Edge who is clearly a better wrestler. I Also recall that the WWE wellness program was a one shot only thing where if you fail a drug test say goodbye to your contract. You cannot sit there and tell me that Vince truly cares about his workers wellness when he gets millions off of them.. now if someone dies under contract WWE will be blamed more cuz they have a wellness program but they still let them do the drugs.. if they didnt release it they can say that they never knew the worker was using the drugs .. and the Mr McMahon gimmick your talking about is a gimmick but this was backstage Vince that released the statement which wasnt a gimmick. if it was they wouldve publicly announced it on RAW or SD or the bad re-go at ECW. Thats it for my rant and I love wrestling as much as the next guy if not more .. this summer im even going to a wrestling school.. and I would hate to see another wrestler like Eddie die. and remi 5 linemen: Mike Goff(guard-San Diego Chargers), Frank White(center-Green Bay Packers), Roman Oben(Offensive Tackle-San Diego Chargers), Shane Olivea(Offensive Tackle-San Diego Chargers), Kris Dielman(guard-San Diego Chargers) PS Remi i am a huge football fan of both the Green Bay Packers cuz there my home team and San Diego Chargers cuz LT and Antonio Gates are just awesome.

[AfRoMaN36]

Okay. Very long post, but regardless.... Although you make an excellent point, I dont think that this is atleast a completely greedy thing. Lets get away from the "we tried" excuses for avoiding lawsuits and get down to the simple fact that a man very close to everyones hearts passed away. You see, unlike MLB, the WWE is much smaller in size and Eddy was very close to everyone. And if Vicky Gurrerro was to sue the WWE for making him take steroids or turning the cheek to it (which no signs say she was) it would be a no case since Eddy worked for the WWE for 5 years. (and was clean for most of that run when the WWE released him shortly) Prior to that he worked for various other promotions who turned the cheek. And not all talent that exists in the WWE is home grown talent. Do you think it would make sense to sue that ONE company. But I wont disagree, you make an excellent point. But if this were 1998 and Jose Canseco were to die that day from steroids usage, would Mrs. Canseco sue Selig? Or for that matter, would MLB actually care outside of maybe a week? Im only saying that this wasnt completely selfish and was partially out of concern. If twhat you say was the case wouldnt the WWE have burnt Kurt Angle out till he dropped dead in the center of the ring, then say he was under contract? No. And for the "WWE bashing statement" I was referring to the people who take every bowel movement Vince makes and turns it into some selfish greedy scheme. That isnt always the case and it irritates me that people think that way. [QUOTE=Tyler Gadzinski;213731]OK first I highly doubt you work backstage for WWE so how would you know how things are run.. second if your gonna mention someone at least spell there name right.. was a great and should not have his image ruined because there are rumors he died of steroids.. show the man respect love him or hate you better damn respect him. Im not saying TNA is making a smart choice to not run a wellness prEddie Guerrero ogram it is better that they dont though so they dont have this kind of crap going on.. Steiner.. I wouldnt doubt he did steroids at some point in time.. hell even Edge did steroids and dont say he didnt cuz he admitted he did that was the past. as for Kurt who says he got released by WWE I truly feel he left cuz Vince gave Rey time off before him and Kurt broke his neck and Rey had a bad knee and Vince wouldnt give Kurt time off to take care of his Drug Problem. about Andrew "Test" Martin lets face it he never shouldve been brought back he wasnt over before and he wont the second time he signs with them. if you really wanna go into who does steroids.. lets talk about Snitsky, Batista, Lashley(wouldnt doubt it), Cena.. but then again you prolly like the no talent Cena. Batista and Cena would make a great team called No Talent 2006 this is ridiculus that Cena gets the belt over Edge who is clearly a better wrestler. I Also recall that the WWE wellness program was a one shot only thing where if you fail a drug test say goodbye to your contract. You cannot sit there and tell me that Vince truly cares about his workers wellness when he gets millions off of them.. now if someone dies under contract WWE will be blamed more cuz they have a wellness program but they still let them do the drugs.. if they didnt release it they can say that they never knew the worker was using the drugs .. and the Mr McMahon gimmick your talking about is a gimmick but this was backstage Vince that released the statement which wasnt a gimmick. if it was they wouldve publicly announced it on RAW or SD or the bad re-go at ECW. Thats it for my rant and I love wrestling as much as the next guy if not more .. this summer im even going to a wrestling school.. and I would hate to see another wrestler like Eddie die.[/QUOTE] 1. No I dont work their but neither do you. 2. Eddie Guerrero* 3. I brought up TNA as my "comeback" thing because you only mentioned the WWE in a negative light without even mentioning places like ROH or TNA that dont even have Wellness Policies. 4.Well other than Cena, havent all the men you mentioned vanished from tv for a long period of time at one point? 5. No I dont like nor hate Cena, but I would perfer that you didnt just assume that I do because Im defending the WWE. 6. I posted a link that was the WWE wellness policy. It clearly stated a three strike rule. 7. I cannot tell you anything about Vinces life, but the man is a human being, and to tell me he wouldnt drop a tear because of the death of one of his workers is ludacris. 8. I also love the industry and hope to train to become a wrestler after high school.

[djthefunkchris]

I honestly doubt that Cena use's steriods... I've seen his bodybuilding pic's, I would think he would at least be half that size. He's lost alot of bulk going into wrestling. Batista I think did at one point (just speculation/guessing), I don't believe he does now, or even has for a while (without a PROPER subscription anyways). Lashley LOOKS like he might have, but I really doubt it. He looked pretty big in the Service too, and you have to realise the tests they would have done on him there if they even suspected.

[Bye1918]

Damn, Rey-Rey? That's disapointing, as his whole thing isn't based on look. But I'm laughing at them calling Gregory Helms "The Hurricaine" When was the last time we was the Hurricaine?

[Tyler Gadzinski]

[QUOTE=Bye1918;213736]Damn, Rey-Rey? That's disapointing, as his whole thing isn't based on look. But I'm laughing at them calling Gregory Helms "The Hurricaine" When was the last time we was the Hurricaine?[/QUOTE] im gonna say mid to late 2005

[AfRoMaN36]

I edited my post above.

[MightyDavidson]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;213735]I honestly doubt that Cena use's steriods... I've seen his bodybuilding pic's, I would think he would at least be half that size. He's lost alot of bulk going into wrestling. Batista I think did at one point (just speculation/guessing), I don't believe he does now, or even has for a while (without a PROPER subscription anyways). Lashley LOOKS like he might have, but I really doubt it. He looked pretty big in the Service too, and you have to realise the tests they would have done on him there if they even suspected.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't he have had to pass such tests to even get into the service? I mean the military is rather careful about that sort of thing aren't they?

[Tyler Gadzinski]

im not saying the wellness program has the 3 strike rule now but when it was first released it was a one time deal thing.. it wasnt if you do steroids im not gonna pay you for a month but you wont get fired either.. i didnt mention TNA or ROH cuz they never publicly introduced a wellness program. WWE made that mistake and have been bashed repeatedly for it.. and i do admit that I dislike WWE so much they are just bringing back 1998 and we are way past that .. who wouldve thought in 1999 that DX was there then look 8 years later and there still there.. that is sad thats the best that they could come up with for HBK and HHH... and when did Lashley get taken off the air Batista only did cuz he got "injured" from Mark Henry it was a storyline act. And Snitsky was taken off TV but not off shows.. he worked just about every Heat show doing the angle where he teamed with Eugene. ok i revoke my further statement of Lashley being on Steroids hes just abnormally big I understand that the military would reject him from using them.. but whos to say he didnt start using them after he got out?

[AfRoMaN36]

The Military wouldve dogged Lashley if he did do steroids and he looks exacly the same in physique in the WWE. And everyone knows people give Batista an air of uncertainty when it comes to his "injuries" So, who's to say the WWE didnt claim he was injured while under suspension just so that he wouldnt have the negative press on a big star. and you cant put this passed them. Im sure theyd be willing to do this as even baseball teams cover up for their players. (Barry Bonds, anyone?)

[PeterHilton]

Afroman, you're being incredibly guillible. So are some of the other people who are saying that the E had no idea how large the problem was. --steroids have been around since the 70s. If you read some of Billy Graham's comments, half the locker room were openly injecting themselves. Many wrestlers from that era have said that steroid use was tacitly encouraged by the road agents. WWF management would have to be retarded to not know what was going on. --Congress investigated the WWF and Vince McMahon in the 80s. As Rem mentioned, the only thing they were looking for then was whether or not the WWF actually sold the drugs. They didn't but several wrestlers made several hours of testimony regarding the fact that management practically encouraged steroid use. --Over the past five years or so at least 30 big name wrestlers form the 80s died because of illnesses that could directly or indirectly attributed to years and years of drug and/or steroid use. With all this, [I]there wasn't a policy in place until two years ago!!!! [/I] I mean, Congress invetigated you, you're burying guy who used to be your best workers..[I]but you stillllll don't have a policy?[/I] WTF? A two year old policy doesn't erase thirty years of damage. They created an atmosphere where guys feel they HAVE to use something to get big or else they won't have a career, and then stand back and wash their hands when someone gets caught. Someone else said it best: this policy is just a built in excuse the next time someone dies heart failure at 35. As long as the company continues to create the need, then they are responisble for the abuse.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=MightyDavidson;213744]Wouldn't he have had to pass such tests to even get into the service? I mean the military is rather careful about that sort of thing aren't they?[/QUOTE] Yes. I was in the Navy and steroids are part of the random drug testing.