TeemuFoundation

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Xendarii" data-cite="Xendarii" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So the UI is gonna stay the way it is? Cool. That's 35 bucks less because I'm not going to buy this game.</div></blockquote><p> A complete overhaul will not be happening. But I'm sure every complaint made is on the list of things that are being looked at. So, while a complete overhaul is not a possibility, improvements will be made. We shall see.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Kanwulf" data-cite="Kanwulf" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Can you not fine tune your own product like in TEW2016?</div></blockquote><p> No.</p>

I think that if the game remains such that I choose to skip it, the most tragic thing is going to be that really could have just taken a few of the key new features in 2020 - block tapings, editing chemistry in-game, attributes, a few other things - patch them into 2016, and I would have happily paid 35 bucks for it. But I'm like you. I'm keeping an eye on it. There's things I like a lot. And 2020 has sort of created this limbo where I can't play 2020, but the new features in 2020 also make 2016 feel dated, so it's also hard to go back. So, right now, I feel like I don't have anything to take my TEW urges out on. I remain hopeful, though.

<p>I'm the guy who just wants to fantasy book to be tbh. I've never been interested in TEW in any kind of stressful, challenging endeavor played for its difficulty. People can call me a filthy casual and make fun of me, but they can also try and beat my 4th place time in Mega Man X 100% speedrunning. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> (I kid.)</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ThePastor" data-cite="ThePastor" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You get a crazy amount of penalties for everything now.<p> </p><p> I booked my first show in India and I think I had about 7 overuse penalties between all my workers because none of the Indian workers start with popularity and if I used them in two segments it automatically created a penalty.</p><p> </p><p> For example </p><p> </p><p> Promo</p><p> Match</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> “worker is very overused”</p></div></blockquote><p> Okay. I haven't really dove into booking that much in 2020 yet, just messed with the editor. I'm waiting to see if a few things change in 2020 to see if I make the change from 2016 to 2020. But that sounds like it's a problem elsewhere in the game, not with the perception feature itself. I get what you're saying, though.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ThePastor" data-cite="ThePastor" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yes this is literally how wrestling is. This is how the game should be.<p> </p><p> The issues with the push system was that the workers were aware of it(which made no sense) and that it gave completely arbitrary penalties beyond what actually occurred in the ring and on the show.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> The solution of course was simply to just remove the arbitrary penalties, not rework the entire system so organizing your roster is a confusing directionless mess.</p></div></blockquote><p> Yea, but you can do it now, though? You can still put TAKA in a WWF title match with Triple H. You just don't have to back and forth assigning and re-assigning pushes to do it. You can just - do it.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ThePastor" data-cite="ThePastor" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This is just inaccurate, the push system wasn’t arbitrary, it was completely core to the gameplay of TEW2016.<p> </p><p> It determined the match length guys could wrestle without getting dinged for overuse, it determined the amount of angles a guy could be featured in without being dinged for overuse.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> For example, when Bray Wyatt was introduced in real life, he often had several vignettes and a lengthy promo and on top of it worked in near main event level matches while he was basically unknown. This made it so he got over way quicker.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> The perception system is actually just unrealistic. It takes a flat number(the workers area popularity) and determines entirely whether or not how you can use that worker based on nothing but his popularity. Ignore stats, ignore star quality. Just popularity is the only thing that matters now along with some other minor stuff like momentum.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I also believe the new perception system will cause a lot of issues booking historical mods where guys often came in as “attractions” despite not inherently being popular in the area.</p></div></blockquote><p> How can a worker with no star quality be popular, though? And what I meant by arbitrary was, there was no drawback in taking, let's say, an Opener, and giving him a Main Event push for one night on TV because you want him to face your champion in a one-off. You give him the main event push to eliminate the overuse penalty. You'd receive no punishment for this. You'd just autopush him back to his regular spot after the show was over.</p>

Yea, I actually haven't booked a single show yet in TEW 2020, and I'm waiting to see if a few specific changes happen before I decide to swap 2016 for 2020, so I have no idea how booking works and how accessible certain stuff is. Sorting by pop and momentum would obviously be nice if it's currently included in the game.

Warrior was, on the surface level, popular enough to be top main eventer in the WWF at the time. If you are to think of the WWF at the time like a TEW game, and WWF is and was obviously pop over performance. Of course, you can't because one is real life and the other is a video game, but still. Real life just has more nuances than a game could ever perfectly replicate. I feel like this steers the convo offtopic, though.

Yea, that's a fair point. But I don't think it's a problem with the perception feature, per se. It's part of a bigger problem in the TEW series, which is that there aren't enough nuances to separate "popularity" from "overness" or "drawing power". These get mixed a ton in TEW because there's no clear separation made. Scotty obviously got massive pops because his feel good gimmick was fun and entertaining. But I doubt Scotty had drawn as the top dog. Another, less obvious, example is Ultimate Warrior in 1990. His pops and popularity were enough to fool the WWF front office, but for whatever reason, he just wasn't that guy. Very popular. Huge pops. But he was just not the guy to pull the wagon. Whatever the reason may be. The popularity in TEW is a bit too one-dimensional to really create this dilemma.

Those autopush errors you got won't occur in 2016 if the mod is good, though. To be fair. That's an issue with the mod/worker data.

Long-term momentum is always the momentum used in any calculations that take into account a worker's momentum. The only job of short-term momentum is to determine long-term momentum.

Hmm, you can edit contracts in 2020. You may have clicked on a non-written contract? You can't edit people's game or in-ring status, however. That's a bummer. You can't put a worker out of business, or bring them back from out of business, etc. Currently, it's an unfortunate deal breaker for me, which I hope can be changed.

Aight. So, I've seen a lot of people really worried and troubled over the lack of the old push feature, in favour of the new perception feature in TEW 2020. And heckin' screw you, spell check, Imma spell it "favour" instead of "favor" if I want to! See, I'm old school like that. But what I'm not old school for is the old "push feature". So, like. In the old games, let's use TEW 2016 here, what happened was, workers would have X popularity. And that X popularity would determine how the game viewed their spot in the company they worked for. Yes, you could assign an arbitrary "push" for them, but it had no effect on their actual popularity; if you wanted to get the best results, you'd push the guy with 100% popularity as main eventer, and the guy with 0% popularity as an enhancement talent. And stuff in-between. It made no sense to do anything except use the auto push feature to avoid getting complaints from people unhappy with their push. The funny thing about that was, you could still treat the guy you just gave the "main event" push as an opener. The workers in 2016 are so dumb, they will never know the difference. They were just happy with the label of main eventer. What I mean is, you could push a guy as a main eventer, but have him open every show for all eternity, never actually being involved in any top programs in the company. And he was happy. So what did the "push" feature really mean, in the end? It was all super arbitrary. The actual push of a worker is how you treat them on the card. This is done by simply booking. You give a guy a main event push by featuring him in main event programs. You give a guy a midcard push by featuring him in midcard programs. Guys can also jump back and forth between main event and midcard. It happens in real life all the time since there's only room for one program at the very top at a time. There is simply no need for the added busywork of continuously clicking autobooker to make sure everyone on the roster is properly tricked into believing they're in the spot they believe they deserve. Effectively. Enter perception. The push feature is now removed entirely. You are simply given the information of how the fans view a worker in terms of their current popularity and momentum in comparison to the company's popularity. What you actually proceed to do with them is still up to you. Just like it was in TEW 2016, and just like it's been in every iteration of the EW series ever up to this point. I've seen a lot of people seemingly have the misunderstanding that perception somehow forces you to agree with the fans. Like, if someone is perceived a Major Star, it means you absolutely have to push him as the big main eventer of your company. No, no, no. That's not it at all. You are simply given the information of how the fans view the worker. The rest is up to you, as I said. You can have Bret Hart perceived as the major star in your company, but no game mechanic is stopping you from pushing Mabel as your main event attraction because "GODDAMNIT, PAL, LOOK AT HIM, HE'S HUGE! LIKE A GIANT CHOCOLATE MASTODON!" Of course, you get the best results, game-wise, if you push your Major Stars on top. But this was the case in 2016, as well. It hasn't changed at all. Really, in my opinion, all that has changed from 2016 is the removal of the unnecessary busywork of assigning arbitrary pushes to people that never really meant anything to begin with since you could place people wherever you wanted on the card anyway, regardless of their push. In TEW 2016, I could keep Hulk Hogan in 1990 happy forever by giving him a main event push and having him work a neverending opening match program with Iron Mike Sharp for the rest of his career. He would never complain about anything for as long as he worked for me. I can still do this in 2020, of course. But my point is that it's not like the old push system in 2016 necessarily had anything to do with how you actually pushed your workers. Because, again, the actual push is how place your people on the cards. That's what it means. Ric Flair was not a main eventer in the NWA because he was assigned a "main event" push on a spreadsheet; he was a main eventer because he worked on top with top guys. I hope I didn't come off as rude or condescending. I just feel a lot of people are misunderstanding the feature, and seeing limitations that aren't there.

Just because someone enters time decline, doesn't mean they're terrible, or not worth using at all. You shouldn't really look at whether or not someone is in time decline, and instead just look at the results workers are giving you. If a worker delivers good grades, awesome. Keep using him. Time decline or not. The moment they start slipping, it'll show in the ratings. That's how I view it anyway. I mean hell, Ric Flair, you could argue, was in time decline for all of his time spent in the mainstream spotlight. His actual best years were spent in front of a much smaller audience, a lot of it not even televised. He was still a worthy hire and even main eventer for any wrestling company in the 90s. All throughout the 90s.

The long wait, and the fact that people are locked down, some having lost their jobs, desperately looking for a way to past the time and a new, good game to play. And the game wasn't exactly what they were expecting, unfortunately. I think it's also that, psychologically - going back to the waiting thing - people have invested a lot emotionally into the game, precisely due to the long wait. The long dev journal. The hype. The expectations. The hopes. All that stuff. Emotionally, it's a big investment. And while it's not a monetary investment, per see, our brain doesn't always know the difference. So, in a way, I think people feel robbed because their brain tells them they've paid something for the game already. My theory anyway. I mean, I'm disappointed, too. I just try not to be angry. And I wait to see how things look like when the retail version comes out. I hope for the best. But if not, then it's 2016, and 2016 is a fine game, I don't mind playing 2016 more.

Addiction: Bad Eating Habits: A companion to Fat Genes. Makes it so it's near impossible to reach, let alone maintain, a ripped or muscular physique. Worker is much more likely to be overweight. Potentially reduces lifespan, as well.

Yeah, I'd like to take this opportunity to make a better case for this than my brief opening post. Now, if this is a coding limitation, then it's a bummer that we're gonna have to live with. No can do. But, man... this almost a deal-breaker for me. And I haaaate to be That Guy who makes such a seemingly petty issue into a "deal-breaker", but hear me out. I've never been the hardcore TEW player who plays the Cornellverse, or any other mod, for the "challenge", and stuff like that. TEW has always satisfied a very specific urge I've had to create this fantasy scenarios where I just, well, fantasy book. I've always had this very specific way to enjoy the game. One of them is having a degree of control of what takes place in the game world. Not all of it, of course. I do enjoy the unexpected event and challenge here and there, but workers being active/out of business/on hiatus, etc. is something I've always enjoyed being in charge of. Yea, it's cheating, I know. But like, it's not always to "my advantage". It, for instance, takes me out of the game entirely if I can't control the fact that around 2004 The Rock makes it to Hollywood, and he's unable to wrestle. So, my own self-imposed challenge, kinda, is that The Rock debuts in 1996, and winds down his career in 03-04, so whatever I wanna get out of The Rock, I need to do within that timespan. And he's gone for at least a number of years. I really dislike the idea of making it to 03-04, and The Rock continues to be an in his prime main eventer. I'm sure most people will look at this and think it's silly, but I'd like to make this suggestion because it's a big thing for the way I personally enjoy these games - that I'm willing to pay for. And then there are cases like Chris Benoit. I used to not add Benoit into my databases at all, but now I'm okay with Benoit being a part of them, but I do want him gone by 07. It feels super weird having him stick around. That's a personal thing, but yea. And sometimes I just like doing fantasy scenarios where an out of business worker comes back for that one more dream match. Through the in-game editor. And this seemingly not being possible in 2020 is... a giant bummer. One that makes me want to stick with 2016. But 2020 comes packed with such great features that I'd like to play it, to be honest. Again, if it's a coding limitation, it makes me sad, but I understand. If not, I'd like this to be reconsidered. It has a huge negative impact on the way I get my enjoyment from these games. I get that I'm the "filthy casual sandbox fantasy booker", but then again there are the EWR throwback features - which I unashamedly abuse - meaning that sandboxers such as myself are definitely a part of the demographic. Thanks for your time.

Attributes are super nice. And block tapings and editable chemistry.

WMMA 5 was very popular, and many called it Adam's best game. So I'm sure he took a "Go with what works" approach. I wonder what went wrong.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DaneQuixote" data-cite="DaneQuixote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If that's really what people are SO ass-blasted over I don't know what to tell you. I've been fooling around with it for 10 hours and once you get the hang of it it's perfectly fine. <p> </p><p> You want the most immersive pro-wrestling booking simulator out there? There's gonna be a lot of buttons.</p></div></blockquote><p> Yea, I wasn't stating my own opinion there, or anything. But when observing the landscape here, it does seem to be the really big issue for people. I have my own issues, but they don't even have to do with the UI.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DaneQuixote" data-cite="DaneQuixote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Disappointed by a new release? The game hasn't officially BEEN released <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Seriously, guys? lol do you not understand what a BETA is?</div></blockquote><p> Is Adam really going to redesign the entire user interface in a week, though?</p>

If possible, I would appreciate the return of editable game and in-ring status for real world sandbox games. If not, I might stick with 2016 in all honesty. It's not just this feature alone, but this on top of some other annoyances.

Workers now have a set "Perception" that is based on their popularity. So the game automatically treats them as "Stars", "Well known", etc.

What do you mean? In the in-game editor, or the main editor? You can the length of a contract in both.