Moe Hunter

"Somebody might need to go back to fact vs. opinion school. HBK's 15 pound weight difference is a fact." It's not fact, it's absolutely not fact, yet that's the point you stated. Continuing on... Yes, because that's not what you said. You said HBK's 15 pound weight difference is a fact. Also, how exactly is it ridiculous to say he's pushed based on his size? Who cares what he's billed at? If they billed Kane at 240, would you tell me his size wasn't a factor? Not that I want to really get in to politics, but seriously this just sounds like "thousands of Americans can't be wrong!" We can say that there have been bad US Presidents, or elected leaders in any field. People voting for Cena for this award doesn't *make* him good, it just reflects the opinions of those people. Millions of people voted for Nixon, Reagan, Carter, Clinton, Bush, Obama... it doesn't mean they were all good, it just reflects the opinions of the people at the time. How is a collation of opinions somehow "objective"? Drawing money is objective, but a subset of community consideration can only be at best "less subjective than less opinions". I agree with you here. He's not easily replaceable, he fills a segment that no one seems like they could capture at the moment. He can work (though not that well IMO - he's sloppy, whiffs and botches way more than a ME guy should, and has awful psychology). He's not only there because of his size, but you'd have to be insane to ignore it, and that's why I took any issue with you at all - trying to suggest (though you say you weren't, in which case, very odd choice of words) that he's only got 15lbs on HBK. Hell, just get rid of all the "Raw Rebounds" and other boring angles they have on SD, and there's plenty of time for tag teams! So I'm not very excited for this week's Raw, since there's no CM Punk to be had, just Vince and Cena arguing over whether he'll be there next week. I'll catch it on Youtube but that's about it. Looking forward to MitB though, if they follow through well on the angles.

Wait, you're using kayfabe weights as fact? Seriously, LOOK at HBK and Cena. Then tell me that if HBK put on 15 pounds, he'd be as big as Cena. Also, WO awards isn't exactly hard evidence. It is a *fact* that he won those awards, which are based solely on *opinion*. I mean, you understand that it's the opinion of the WO staff that determines those awards, right? It's not a triathlon or any sport where Cena objectively beat other competitors.

What would be the point of all that Nexus build up just to have Punk lose to Orton three times in a row? Oh, wait. That already happened. Good luck, Christian.

Pretty sure CM Punk became Champ during on of his many supposed "doghouse" visits. The only thing that ever matched up was the story of him "disrespecting" Undertaker and the dress code, then losing the strap to him, but then Punk has completely denied the claim and he's very much a no-nonsense guy. Yeah, I was on the edge of my seat with that Streak vs Career stipulation they reported!

Wow, John Morrison sure is in the doghouse, huh? Snubbing Trish and letting Batista et al have their way with Melina sure put him on the company's bad side... Oh, wait! He's in a PPV WWE Title match. At least nothing has changed in the world of dirtsheet credibility!

As previously discussed, Snooki is better than Trish at this point. I haven't seen a Melina match in a while, but unless she botches literally two thirds of her spots, she's better in-ring than Trish.

Aren't Greg Gange and Stu Hart in the HoF, and never been in a WWE ring? RVD Kurt Angle Big Show Vince McMahon Enough of an argument? I'm a huge Christian fan, but he was absolutely not the biggest thing going. Hell, the announcers gave him ZERO enthusiasm when he returned (much like when he was drafted to SD in 2005, though they gave him a *little* something when he returned at the EC this year).

The chair shot wasn't unprotected, Taker got his right hand up. The first view *looks* unprotected, but the replay clearly showed he got a hand up to block it. Problem is, chair shots to the head, no matter how protected they are, are still banned. That's why Hart vs McMahon last year had to suck so bad.

He is sloppy and botches way more than he should. His psychology is poor to non-existant. His selling is way way down. None of that is just "his gimmick". Please point me to matches where he's "not restricted", because even in some of his best matches he still fumbles around like he's not sure what he's doing, alternated with complete auto-pilot motion. By the way, when did I ever indicate I wanted to see submission moves and restholds? Cena can't even do his one submission hold right. Does HBK do an armbar for 3 minutes and follow with a chinlock? Nope. But I don't think anyone's going to argue that HBK isn't a LOT better of a wrestler than Cena is. I don't know how closely you've been watching Raw over the past six months or so, but ever since Cena was "fired", they've been very open about the idea of Cena getting booed. Also, "minority"? That's just not so. It's Chicago, WWE knew exactly what they were doing and what to expect. Notice how they opened with a heel getting cheered? Not only that, but a guy who ordinarily wouldn't open a show unless he was the current champ? They know what's up.

I have no problem with him as a military ambassador, like a Bob Hope type. My problem with him is that he is not a very good wrestler. Which is a shame, because... he's a wrestler, not just an entertainer at USO shows. Or maybe because he's not speaking FOR the fans, just on their behalf. If the fans don't like what he's saying, clearly he's not representing them properly. So no wrestler is allowed to mock another? Cole mocking all of JR's catchphrases and his hat is odd? Kurt Angle mocking Austin's beer drinking is odd? The Rock mocking EVERYONE he's ever feuded with is odd? Seriously, go watch the Armaggeddon 2000 promo again. It's BELOVED and Rock does nothing but mock "gimmicks they created".

"52 year old stroke victim with post-concussion syndrome, and hadn't wrestled in almost a decade" Bret Hart? It's a *little* different to Trish who's only been away for a few years and is in perfect health.

You'd think she would put enough practise in to be as good as someone who has *never* stepped in a ring before. Besides, isn't she supposed to be a trainer in TE? She'd better shake it off soon or Miss USA will be outclassing her. Sad.

Her Thez Press was better than Trish's. Trish has been nothing but sloppy since she returned.

Haha looks like he's gonna hit the Knox-Out/Shell-Shock at the end there.

Yep. Nope. Indeed

When Undertaker says "18 other men have fallen" - they're blatantly ignoring a) One of them is Triple H b) two of them were Shawn Michaels It's only 16 other men. This feud really sucks and just feels completely forced. If the "career on the line" stip comes in like the dirt sheets first guessed, it'll be out of nowhere and not make any sense. They've already agreed to the match, unlike HBK last year.

Edge & Christian is a WAY bigger draw than Del Rio, no matter how much they've been trying to push him everywhere. Stone Cold, Booker T & Trish on TE The Rock, Triple H and Undertaker on Raw Do you see the pattern? WWE is seeing the need for Attitude Era stars in order to really get the buyrates going. Del Rio vs Edge and Cena vs Miz simply don't have enough substance to do it by themselves.

I don't think you can call him a "transitional champion" when he'll have held the belt from Survivor Series to Wrestlemania...

So he has another 5-10 years left in him?

Yeah, Rhodes' angle is fine. But Jugg's suggestion was to run a similar angle with Punk wearing some protective gear. That wouldn't work at this time.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="juggaloninjalee" data-cite="juggaloninjalee" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>An unintentional injury isn't a big deal. A broken nose isn't that bad. Punk could go around wearing a mask and use it as part of his gimmick like what some wrestlers do when they break their thumb or ribs. D'Lo Brown running around with the chest protecter I felt helped his character a lot.<p> </p><p> This is wrestling and guys get hurt on accident.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Meanwhile on SD!, they're running a fake "broken-nose causes great agony" storyline with Cody Rhodes. Punk having a real broken nose cheapens that.</p>

Orton broke Punk's nose? Fire him! It's more than Kennedy did to Orton.

Except when he busted a huge gash in Matt Hardy's head, and injured Undertaker twice with it... Arguably it's the most dangerous finisher in the WWE (second place might go to Sheamus' Cruxifix Powerbomb, with its unprotected head bump)

I want to see Sting vs The Edge at WM!

What?! When did this happen? Oh wait, the past whole page or two was talking exclusively about this.