Linsolv

Opinions don't convince anyone of anything. Logic and reasoning do. We're not privy to most of business. Last I checked they don't release complete information on their merchandise sales, or ticket sales. They might make vague claims like "over 9000" but nothing in-depth or specific, so no detailed analysis can be made. Some people want to say that Cena's the best because he's the best seller. There's a cause-and-effect fallacy there. He might be the actual, objectively best top guy out there, but we don't know that. You COULD BE RIGHT but there's no way to know. Not really, not without trying it in an experimental scenario, which is just a pipe dream at best. What Arrows is saying is that you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket--there should be some way to push two guys who are BOTH, in theory, on Cena's level, right? That seems, to me, to be what the Cena vs. Orton thing that dragged on for half a year was about. Trying to create someone who was like Cena's kyrptonite. However, it didn't work. I'd suggest that the reasons it didn't work were many, but the biggest was that Orton was having matches against Cena regularly. With Vince's booking style, heels win dirty (because they're just worse than the faces) and faces win clean (because they're just better than the heels). Now, I imagine that you could probably have created a much bigger effect if you'd let Orton go on winning, sometimes clean even, over smaller names than Cena for a while. Basically, in the most literal sense, creating a Super Orton to combat Super Cena. You might even be able to do this a third time, someone who is either a face or heel who basically just doesn't lose. The only rule is that you never have your unlosing superheroes face each other, because THEN ONE OF THEM LOSES. Of course, it could be that Orton can't fill those shoes. Not everyone can, that's obvious. Not only from a business standpoint, some people just don't get over with the crowd like Cena really has. So to say "well Orton couldn't!" Fine. The Miz and Sheamus are apparently now considered pretty good company men. It's not an exact science, especially when you're not privy to the only hard facts that are out there.

He said that Dave Meltzer made comments that were mis-interpreted as saying Brock Lesnar was looking to leave the UFC. I don't know or care what the truth is, but linking to other people summarizing his statements doesn't prove him wrong, it proves him right.

Well, at least now we know that TEW's portrayal of Menacing Brutes isn't TOO out of line with reality. Mark Henry gets a monster push, and BOOM. Over like mad.

I apologize for being about to get all philosophical up in in this joint, but I'd say it's #3. We ALL see whole different matches every time we see a match. The reason we like wrestling is different for each of us. The people we like, we like for different reasons. Sometimes they're similar, but the subtle differences that we bring to the table mean that for me, airing grievances publicly is called "being a man," while for you, it's called "being a child." For him, overselling wasn't a big deal. It's no different than any Ric Flair match I've seen. For you, it's a huge deal! Wrestling is all about the suspension of disbelief, and nobody jumps up after being kicked down so they can flop around like a fish out of water!

People paid to see a lot of things that never make it to PPV. I recall the Sheamus/Daniel Bryan match in particular as a recent example. A lot of people were looking forward to Danielson on WrestleMania and then OOPS, dark match. Disrespecting a used-to-be legend who has been washed up for a decade or more and still keeps trying because he's an irresponsible and unsympathetic fool is something that doesn't bother me. And doing it on screen is a lot better to me than doing it backstage, because it suggests that you're willing to stake your reputation on saying it instead of being some kind of snake.

It does sound a bit childish, but Hogan DID come back just for the money and not for the fans, he IS a jerk who refuses to job to anyone, and if Michaels is/was bitter about it I for one don't blame him.

OH MY LORD. EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD NEEDS TO SEE THIS.

It's not "back to normal." There are two WWE Heavyweight Championships. That's basically the opposite of normal, and it is clearly* what they have been aiming for from the beginning. I doubt they really cared about the specifics of how well Punk's departure went over, just that it did a little bit so that they could have 2 legit title belt holders. * - Hindsight being 20/20 and all. I didn't really see it coming weeks ago, but now that it's here I can plainly see why they rushed the CM-Punk-is-gone part of the storyline.

He hasn't done anything HEELISH for a long time either though. He tries to win his fights clean, he doesn't lie, he's respectful... sure, he's not doing face stuff, but he's acting like one pretty good there.

World's Strongest Slam vs Masterlock. WHO WINS? Then Burning Hammer gets winner.

BUT THEN HOW WOULD YOU HAVE A 7-WOMAN DIVA'S TAG MATCH. That's obviously needed!

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShaunGBD" data-cite="ShaunGBD" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>but you don't have to order all 12</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think he means to get ANY of them he has to get that whole package.</p>

So his problem is that Vince expects Cena to do all the hard work like putting on a good show for the fans and treating the fans well. Not confusing at all. I'm not seeing where you're not getting my point. As much as Vince does seem to have been playing at least a quasi-heel, but the thing he's mad about is having to be good to the fans. It's sort of like being mad about being the host to your friends. Playing host is annoying. Getting everyone drinks, trying to make sure they're not hungry, keeping them entertained. It's a dirty job. However, if you tell your friends you're sick of playing host to them, it doesn't mean you have a rational aversion to a hard job, it means you don't want to spend time with them any more.

Too art-house in your line of thinking. Wrestling is simpler than that. Is what he's doing a thing a good guy would do, or a thing a bad guy would do? He is how he acts. Going on a tirade about how sick of helping people you are is something a bad guy would do.

http://nodq.com/wwe/311801425.shtml

:| [EDIT: Sorry, I took the first link I could find. It turned out to be bad. So I had to get a new one.] (Or... is "Seven Year Itch" actually a SUPER obscure Some Like It Hot reference? I dunno. I just sorta assumed that the reference was more direct than 'being the name of a movie but not the movie I'm referring to...')

You mean the Marilyn Monroe picture? I didn't realize it was obscure. I thought that the image of her skirt being blown up by the subway grate was one of the most iconic Hollywood moments...

Man I'm not having fun with this Christian feud. More than anything it's getting Teddy Long over as a heel, more than Christian. Maybe that's the goal? I dunno. It's so infuriating.

Miz was champ for 5 months because of his ability to cheat. If you just make it so that he can't cheat then he was ACTUALLY PUSHED as a weak wrestler. Clean wins should be coming left and right when he doesn't succeed in cheating.

I'd compare Cena more to Lady GaGa. She's repeatedly demonstrated that she's a skilled pianist, her voice is nice, and every so often she writes something that means anything at all; She's also at the top despite a vocal group of detractors. On the other hand, her mainstream appeal and her gimmick makes her unpalatable to many.

Because in the WWE, it's not like in MMA. The better man ALWAYS wins, if the finish is clean. The difference is magnified a lot. If you're always losing clean it means you're BAD. Not "unlucky." You might not see it that way, but that's the way that the company has been trying to condition you to see it, and I'm willing to go with them on it if that's the lesson they want to teach. Having 3 clean losses in a row means you're a chump, not a victim of circumstance.

In a sense. I know Gabriel is a true-blue died-in-the-wool high flyer, where I think of Slater as... sorta like a Japanese Junior. Which for the most part I lump in with the flying wrestling styles. I don't know if I am accurately describing him but I also don't like his stupid hair and his stupid voice, so I don't really feel like he deserves a fair shake. I just don't like him. It's rude and I try to just keep my thoughts to myself. Now that I would agree with 100%, and honestly it's another kinda frustrating thing about Cena, lol. He's a geniunely nice guy who works super hard. Why is it that his hard work pays off, and people like him? I work hard and get nowhere, and nobody likes me. But in all seriousness Cena is a gift to WWE as far as his back-stage activities with charity and PR events and things of that nature. It's like the guy never gets tired.

I don't like his look and I don't like cruiserweights. So I crap on him. It's impolite but I'm on the internet and not being paid to be polite. So you get honest Lin instead of polite Lin. E: I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't like... want him dead or something psycho like that. I just don't want to have to see him, and as it happens I don't. I can change the channel, I can take a leak, I can make a snack... I mean, keep him around, he seems to work hard, and a lot of people like flyers. I'm just not one of them.

If I don't miss my guess, IF he leaves then it will be the same concept as when Danielson left; he leaves, does some indie stuff, with the understanding that when he's ready he'll return. Plus, it adds a sort of legit confusion about the whole thing to have him actually doing one-night-only type shows in NJPW and ROH. It worked with Danielson, at least in the sense that they convinced everyone his firing was legit, and when he came back it could've been big.

Honestly, Shawn, I think that you often come across that way. It's the language barrier. You've got very good English, but something is lost in translation, I think. You basically come across as lacking moderation, which is common when you're having difficulty expressing yourself. Honestly, once I realized this, which I did almost immediately after the first few times I spoke with you, you became a very likeable fellow. I'm sorry that I don't speak Portuguese and I can't talk to you on even terms, and you have to deal with being unable to express what you want to say. I've been in situations like that and it always really stinks.