southside_hitmen

If you post some screens of road agent notes, dirt sheet comments, and individual match scores we could prob help out. It could be any number of things really, it doesn’t necessarily mean the mod or game are bad.

<p>And here I thought this thread was going to be a delightful pun about the mood on the boards...</p><p> </p><p> But yeah, that's odd that you haven't interacted. You didn't injure them in a match or anything?</p>

How are the locations/venues coming along Quest?

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49289" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>"Out of your way"? You can spot the differences within 30 seconds of taking a cursory glance at the rosters.<p> </p><p> "Let see, GSW has a bunch of rappers, makes sense given that their logo looks like a music album label, and IPW has... cultists, evil clowns, and a cowboy."</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Those two companies have different products (GSW & IPW). I was referencing that GSW, PSW, and DIW have the same product.</p><p> </p><p> Again, it's cool that you can see the differences right away, I get that.</p><p> </p><p> Ultimately though, you can't fault someone else's opinion that things look "same-y" when the 3 (again GSW, PSW & DIW - <strong>NOT IPW</strong>) are setup the exact same from a product perspective.</p>

Absolutely rosters and storylines are different (the AI still doesn't use any starting storylines though). He said his point was that he was hoping that products would help differentiate the companies as well, and that they currently are not doing that since they use the same one. IPW is at least a little different with anti-establishment hardcore. The others (PSW, GSW, DIW) use the same one for all 3. In my head canon, PSW is that ECW clone as well, it's just not shown to be that in the product compared to others, as it's the same. So I get your point, and you are right the rosters/storylines are different. But I get his point too, in that the products are the same and the AI can't/won't use the starting storylines anyway.

I think he's referencing the fact that GSW, PSW, and DIW have the exact same product

I get that. It was just a nice feature to have some guardrails for the AI to try to properly sim historical/real world setups. Now it's a bit too wild west for my taste. It's immersion breaking to see companies snapping up workers they didn't in real life and haven't been doing for the last 3-ish versions of the game.

One thing I also greatly miss is the "Tour Regulars" function. You could limit the AI a bit that way and have the "usual" suspects going over to Japan that way to sim historical. With that taken out, you can't do that now.

That one could be solved with adding an option for region exclusive contracts. i.e. using area-specific deals to be exclusive, like AEW/NJPW do

I agree on the above. Especially in an areas like the US, with 11 regions, the "average" is going to be dragged down due to the sheer number of regions available. I'd propose something like the above as a good formula for show calculation. Other alternatives could be: 1) Give them the "going rate" of their highest popularity, regardless of area This would simulate real world booking pretty nicely, in that a US company isn't going to be able to bring in someone like Kento Miyahara for peanuts just because he isn't as well known here. He could just stay in Japan and make more. This may fall down in that workers would start to "only" work 1 region in this proposal, although the argument could be made that's semi-realistic. 2) Give them some combination of the going rate of their highest pop, and pop in the companies home region I'd still lean heavier on the "highest pop" side here (maybe a 75/25 split leaning highest pop) for the reasons above, but this setup would promote worker movement a bit 3) Do one of the above and/or force you to pay for travel for a worker once they hit a certain pop in any area Let's say for example that 25 pop is a threshold, once they become "famous enough" in any one area, they are a known commodity and will expect travel to be paid for or their booking fee to be increased above what would normally be expected. This would allow unknowns to barnstorm all over the place as needed, but would allow established indy workers to charge a higher rate like you would see in real life. Overall, fantastic suggestion. Finances could definitely use some tweaking here.

For the question at hand: - No, I will not be buying on release. 16 still has legs for me. When that runs out I'll check patch notes and reassess at that time. Also, before I dive in. 2020 has some really cool features and I am not saying any of the below because I am actively trying to not like the game. Like a lot of you, I've spent $100's of dollars on this and WMMA over the years and I have always been more than happy to support Adam and the games. I hope a ton of people do like it and support the game, so if you are already in that boat, that's awesome. I'm stating my reasons as to "why" at this time, I feel this way. Why: Custom products removed I've made my thoughts pretty well known when the dev journal on it dropped and in beta so I won't rehash, but facts as of now: - We have pre-sets - We can't tweak or create any ourselves - We do have a recourse to add/tweak ones in suggestion forum, at best case scenarios there will be ~ a week delay to adding something in you ask for here - No products have been added since beta started, even though suggestions have been made - Some products have been tweaked, though usually through things not brought up in that suggestions post, but through other testing/feedback It's possible that a bunch get added after release. It's also possible that very few get added. I fully realize that priority 1 is RTE's and bugs as of now, so I am OK with not adding any at the moment during beta. But, I will definitely be checking patch notes and such to see what gets added to see the "direction" here. I had ~50 distinct products when running the RWC mod, I love me some product nuance. This is something I can do better in 2016, as I can tweak it to my specific product nerdery. AI Booking styles are streamlined There are essentially 2 "booking styles" (not counting "evolving" as it is just if < than year use classic, > year move toward modern) to encompass the entire history of puro or lucha booking in this section. I've posted this before, but even a cursory glance over current modern-day products in either category shows way more depth and nuance than this. These are the actual real life match mixes of each company over the past 2 years just in Japan (as of ~April 2019) ^^^ By my eye, I see at least 3 distinct mixes there, and these are only current day companies. Having just 2 "puro" booking styles (or lucha) to represent the entirety of wrestling history in an area is a bit lackluster to me and something I can do better in 2016 since I can tweak it. Lucha seems very underrepresented with features This one I'll just go listy-listy on: - No Trios - Still don't have an actual traditional Lucha rules matches with captain falls, rounds, etc... - No torneo cibernetico type match (either the singles or team version) This one I can't do better in 2016, but I also can't do worse. Puro companies Product and AI booking issues aside, there are some other things that stick out with trying to get puro companies to run correctly - Touring logic for puro companies (and their booking of said tours) does not seem improved. Still just tiny shows (no mix of tour openers, special events, etc...), only touring one region (the one with highest pop) unless you are a huge company. Still seeing Wrestle Kingdom-level matches headlining random tour stops at a barn in Fukuoka. - No more touring contracts - The AI still does it's hiring sprees as per usual, but instead of it being 3 months and non-exclusive, the bigger ones start snapping up everyone now. In historical mods this means AJPW and NJPW are locking down a ton of NWA stars to exclusive deals, and there's nothing you can really do but tell the AI they can't hire foreigners, which isn't realistic - No tour regulars able to be set. Means the AI will just grab random folks This one is the same-ish in 16 on tour logic, but much better in 16 on touring deals. So, like I said, I'm in "wait and see" mode once 2016 runs out of legs for me. Trust me, I want to "want" to buy the game as this series and OOTP have by far the most playtime of anything I've ever touched in gaming. Unfortunately, I don't feel the "need" to make that jump at this time.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Questlove" data-cite="Questlove" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><img alt="xqvtNls.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/xqvtNls.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> Gotta love that variety <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> C'mon, everyone loves a best of 11 series. Very balanced booking as well.</p>

<p>I don't think there is anything wrong with voicing your opinion, as long as it is done respectfully (which, personally, I think you have).</p><p> </p><p> The game won't improve if it's just all sunshine and rainbows in here. It's perfectly acceptable to state the how and why of why you aren't willing to make the jump to 20.</p><p> </p><p> People are allowed to like/not like it and say why. As long as everyone on both sides can do that respectfully without it turning into personal attacks or violating TOS, I think it's a useful discussion.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Croquemitaine" data-cite="Croquemitaine" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If you don't want generated workers in your mod/game (and it's not for me to say whether you should or shouldn't), then why <em>not </em>just delete all the dojos? They serve no other function in the game. In fact, leaving them out could/should save historical modders some work as it's one less thing they need to include.<p> </p><p> Still, go ahead and request a "generated workers: on/off" button in the suggestions thread. Won't hurt me none if you get it. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The AI could still make their own dojo’s once the world begins, even if you delete them all pre-game.</p>

<p>5 stars sir.</p><p> </p><p> It’s way more efficient use of space and gives you all you need to know on screen without being overwhelming.</p><p> </p><p> Well done!</p>

But they don’t JUST generate enhancement talents. The game also gens superstars. A lot of people don’t want random worker A on top of RAW instead of Austin from a historical sense.

That’s my point, I’m agreeing with you. You CAN’T stop the game from random gens with any dojo’s or performance centers in the game world. It’s a problem, especially for RW/Historical players.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shamelessposer" data-cite="shamelessposer" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> But I'm also not sure what a good argument would be for historical mods not including random workers.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Historical accuracy?</p><p> </p><p> The game says you can set it to "No" for new workers, but also says the AI can turn it back on anyway.</p><p> </p><p> And that people pre-set to debut via the editor do NOT count towards the total, it only applies to freshly generated workers.</p><p> </p><p> <img alt="TEm1NiB.png" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/TEm1NiB.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

This would be cool with Center Stage, Manhattan Center, etc... being a thing in historical mods

I just want to echo I really like this idea. It would be great to have the old school british style be represented.

This is fantastic! You should do a mockup with a similar treatment to the popularity area as well.

This ^

<p>You are all saying the same thing here.</p><p> </p><p> Touring is tour, tour, tour, event</p><p> Constant is event, event, event.</p><p> </p><p> Neither are reflective of a current “real life” tour schedule. </p><p> </p><p> Go back to what the OP was saying. If you have an empty schedule and you set the AI to touring, he wants it to “spawn” a <strong>variety</strong> of events (tour, lesser, etc...) as that’s better reflective of reality AND would help AI financially.</p><p> </p><p> This way, you could “sim” things like tour openers at k-hall, block finals, etc... better, things that do draw more people out or are a bigger deal than a standard tour show.</p>

Nice. Thanks Questlove!

<p>Yeah, I think the OP's point is that on a real life tour it's not just a bunch of minor shows and a big event at the end.</p><p> </p><p> Does that sometime happen? Sure. Most tours though, there is a few "in-between" shows that are more special than others. Whether it is a tour opener, produce show, anniversary of someone's debut or start in wrestling, etc... That usually why NJPW does a couple stops at K-Hall for example.</p><p> </p><p> So just going tour, tour, tour, etc... then big event isn't how it really works in real life AND drastically impacts your finances in a RW or CV save.</p><p> </p><p> Vs. doing something that is more "realistic" with a couple of bigger events sprinkled throughout the tour to not only better sim real life tour setups, but also make the company more money.</p>