Why is it graphics = great diary here?

[Nevermore]

[QUOTE=The Ego;266913]The guys a twat, and just sends everything downhill. Conversations, diaries, topics, forums.[/QUOTE] Ego, a few weeks ago when I thought VE was a little too harsh on your diary I offered my own opinions as a way of saying "Take no notice". However, I do have to say that your "contributions" to this discussion have been completely out of line. Yesterday, I was amazed that an issue based upon such personal tastes was discussed with such open-mindedness and general maturity; it made a welcome change. Unfortunately, you have now negated such circumstances. [QUOTE]Just no one else has the lead in their pencil to stick up to him.[/QUOTE] I think a lot of people have "stood up to him" but in a manner much more fitting (i.e. that which contains a constructive thought process and discussive argument). This isn't a dig because that's exactly what I'm saying is a pain in the arse. However, if there's one thing that seems to crop up all too frequently it's the 'ad hominem' argument. Your posts were a fine example and only serve to aggrevate other members of the fora. Why bother? What has been gained? Quote The Raven Nevermore

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=CarlitoCoool;267036]I didn't mean to sound like I was having a go at you Anderz, it's 12 AM here and VE has made me a lil snappy. [/QUOTE] that's not true. VE didn't do anything. You allowed it to bother you and thus YOU let you get snappy. If someone is doing something or something happens that you can't control, it's not the event or person angering you, it's you angering yourself over the subject which isn't necessary. If it doesn't fall inside your own personal boundary why get worked up over it? It's like getting angry over traffic. You can't control the traffic, so why get upset? [QUOTE=The Ego;266913]Nope, because with this guy it is personal. He hasnt got the correct attitude for a debate on purely the wrestling dynasties....heck neither have i, but i dont pretend to. The guys a twat, and just sends everything downhill. Conversations, diaries, topics, forums. Just no one else has the lead in their pencil to stick up to him. So what, if people wanna use pictures, or not. Who the hell cares? If you cant do pictures, dont slag those off who can, just keep quiet.[/QUOTE] Don't you think you're being counter-productive? Seriously? You're angry at him for his conduct but you're in here pissing and flaming and is it really serving you any purpose? You're coming across as a low value person by engaging in this type of conduct. And it's not accomplishing anything. You're not setting any form of forum decor, or adding anything of value to this discussion but incessant flaming. So he offended you in your diary... Want a crying towel? Get over it. This little bit of hypocrisy of calling him on his childish antics while you yourself are acting like one is ludicrous. We understand that you have a beef with him, but if you have nothing contributory to add to the thread itself then please take this over pm.

[The Ego]

Low Values = The Ego. Look at the name dude. I basically, dont want something my greatself is part of, to be ruined by a little dork like him.

[Guest Vitamin E]

Hear that, Carlito? I didnt screw you. You screwed you! <_< To be fair, Wayne, I can see why my comments got to people. Ego, do you mean you dont want people calling you out on things they dont like about your diary? Because that is really the only thing I did to you that started you on the Vitamin E = Vitamin Dick brigade.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=The Ego;267084]Low Values = The Ego. Look at the name dude. I basically, dont want something my greatself is part of, to be ruined by a little dork like him.[/QUOTE] oooh, because a lowly screen name means SO much... :rolleyes: Simply because your name says "The Ego" doesn't imply you have one that's worth any validity.. It's just a forum name. A couple of lines of code on the internet. If you actually HAVE one, then I feel sorry for you. :)

[theoutlaw321]

[QUOTE=The Ego;267084]Low Values = The Ego. Look at the name dude. [COLOR="Red"]I basically, dont want something my greatself is part of, to be ruined by a little dork like him[/COLOR].[/QUOTE] Sorry, but I think you are taking care of that all by yourself.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=theoutlaw321;267096]Sorry, but I think you are taking care of that all by yourself.[/QUOTE] gotta love the age old formula of 1 person acting like a child + 1 person acting like a child = 2 people acting like children.

[Irish Wolf]

Sadly I go to bed, go to work and come back to what had been a perfectly good thread about diaries and constructive criticism, in spite of the the post that started it, to a thread pissing contest. I'm pretty sure this thread will continue being VE touting his version of what should be followed by his arch nemesis Ego using oh so civilly coined phrases to disparage VE. The of course will be the hangers on who have chosen sides or spin off into other flame filled arguments just because they are lured in by the hate already being spewed. Hopefully Adam will see fit to close the topic soon so that I can remember it for the brief time it actually had something constructive to add to the boards.

[Beeker]

If it is closed, it still lasted much longer than most arguements and even some debates do before spiralling out of control, Apu. I think it may have run it's logical course and now it's just kicking around some unpleasantness at the end. VE brought up a valid topic that brought a lot of writers and readers to weigh in on it. It may not have given a lot of 'answers' but then I don't think definitive answers are all that plausible in something as subjective as diary writing. One thing I would like to address and if I can steer this conversation towards a healthier course. In my opinion (no fact applicable sorry Carlito) anyone who posts a diary wants people to read and view it. I can't imagine anyone posts a diary to a public forum in the hopes that no one reads it at all. That's counterintuitive to the effort and instinct and reasoning between posting it in the first place. People may well 'book/write' for their own amusements, but the moment they post a diary to a public forum, they want the world (or that board) to take a look at what they've created. Hopefully some of the people will learn from the excerise about leaving constructive criticism (which is something I feel would be more beneficial than just 'omg good show!' and about finding the proper tone and tact when leaving comments. Should this thread be closed, it will still have offered some very well thought out discussion about diaries in general.

[shipshirt]

I think the "writing for yourself" gets taken too literally. I write my diary to book and create what I want to see. In doing so, I'm writing for myself. I also post it and show people and love to get comments and feedback but at the end of the day my first audience responsibility is to myself. I've been a professional standup comic/writer/actor for about 12 years and one of the first rules anyone will tell you is to write what you think is funny/good. Don't try to bend towards the marketplace because that's a recipe for failure. Sure, you are still presenting it to a larger audience but it all comes down to what you are presenting and how you feel about it. I think comments about the diary ("it's tough to read the way you laid it out", "Are you bringing so and so back, I loved him/her"...etc) are all very constructive and I've seen those in many of the diaries I've read. As has been mentioned, sometimes it's simply a good show and you want to express that. For the most part I've really enjoyed the discussion on this thread. I think it's the most active I've been on any thread :)

[TeemuFoundation]

[QUOTE=CarlitoCoool;266393]He didn't come here to play nice Panix lol. If you've been to EWB you'd know what he's doing, smarks are probably the most annoying things next to emo's :([/QUOTE] This goes way offtopic, but For. The. Love. Of. God. (And I don't want to sound like a prick, seriously, I don't) but could you please stop misusing the word "smark"? All of you. "Smark" = "Smart Mark" = A person who knows wrestling is fake, knows how the business works (for the most part, you know wat I mean), etc, etc, etc. A person who constantly whines about everything and is negative 24/7 and quite frankly acts like a moron = *******. We are ALL SMARKS! Te thing we are, internet fans who know wresling is scripited and all that = SMARKS! Call the whiners "whiners" or "*******s" or something, but do not call them smarks. Please. Thank you.

[sebsplex]

[QUOTE=Beeker;267172]One thing I would like to address and if I can steer this conversation towards a healthier course. In my opinion (no fact applicable sorry Carlito) anyone who posts a diary wants people to read and view it. I can't imagine anyone posts a diary to a public forum in the hopes that no one reads it at all. That's counterintuitive to the effort and instinct and reasoning between posting it in the first place. People may well 'book/write' for their own amusements, but the moment they post a diary to a public forum, they want the world (or that board) to take a look at what they've created.[/QUOTE] Exactly. If you post it on a public forum, you're inviting people to read and basically critique it. If you seriously don't want that, keep it on your PC or e-mail to the select person you want to read it, failing that upload it on a free geocities account or whatever so it can only be read and not commented on. [QUOTE=TeemuFoundation;267196]This goes way offtopic, but For. The. Love. Of. God. (And I don't want to sound like a prick, seriously, I don't) but could you please stop misusing the word "smark"? All of you. "Smark" = "Smart Mark" = A person who knows wrestling is fake, knows how the business works (for the most part, you know wat I mean), etc, etc, etc. A person who constantly whines about everything and is negative 24/7 and quite frankly acts like a moron = *******. We are ALL SMARKS! Te thing we are, internet fans who know wresling is scripited and all that = SMARKS! Call the whiners "whiners" or "*******s" or something, but do not call them smarks. Please. Thank you.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but then we wouldn't have things like the "I hate smarks" topic in the Dog Pound with a bunch of smarks basically self-loathing. :rolleyes:

[flamebrain]

I actually see them as 3 different things Mark = Just wants to be entertained Smart Mark = Wants to be entertained but also enjoys the "insider" aspect Smark = Whiner To me at least, "smark" has evolved beyond an abbreviation and into a description of its own with its own negative connotations... But that's just me. :)

[Payne]

I TOTALLY agree with FlameBrain on the Smart Mark subject. I have been advocating that for a while now. And, is this really about the topic at hand, which, at any point, is of the verge of becoming a flame war, or going completly off topic.

[Michael Wayne]

Brian Pillman's description of marks and smarks.

[shipshirt]

Off topic: I was at the ECW Arena for that!!! It was one of the most fun times I've had at a live wrestling show!

[tommytomlin]

Wait Wait Wait. Did Ego use the "[I]_________, tissue?"[/I] line again? I can't believe I missed that :(

[Genadi]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;267075]that's not true. VE didn't do anything. You allowed it to bother you and thus YOU let you get snappy.[/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Yeah, I started this post and continued down the line of telling everyone if they listened to me they can improve. Of course I let myself become snappy? [B]Why was that though[/B], oh that's right a guy from a board that bags the crap out of all of you guys daily has come to gds and is trying to do the same thing here. I'm sick of defending this forum though, flame away, let eachother know what you think sux about eachothers shows. I wake up this morning to see even more people chime in to defend this guy? I know a thousand other places I can visit and read this type of crap, why would I bother with gds anymore? See you all round the way :) *Carlito out*

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=CarlitoCoool;267413]:rolleyes: Yeah, I started this post and continued down the line of telling everyone if they listened to me they can improve. Of course I let myself become snappy? [B]Why was that though[/B], oh that's right a guy from a board that bags the crap out of all of you guys daily has come to gds and is trying to do the same thing here. I'm sick of defending this forum though, flame away, let eachother know what you think sux about eachothers shows. I wake up this morning to see even more people chime in to defend this guy? I know a thousand other places I can visit and read this type of crap, why would I bother with gds anymore? See you all round the way :) *Carlito out*[/QUOTE] seriously.. Who cares? The only people who get all worked up over the drama are the ones who help create it. I'm not defending whatever it is he's doing or not doing, as frankly - I couldn't be bothered to invest my valueable time in dealing with it. All I'm saying is if you got all worked up over it, you have no one to blame but yourself. If he's indeed that much of a problem, then giving him added attention isn't going to make it any better as he only has more ammunition to work with. As much as this board members seem to claim what a "community" it is, it's certainly had it's share of drama.. Like the EWB influx drama from a while back. How can people who are supposed to be "mature adults" be flaming each other over the internet? Seriously.... That's what one expects a 12yr old to do. I'll be the first to admit and anyone who was around during the 400SS days, will likely remember I caused my own share of trouble for the admins at 400.. While most of it was all in good fun, it was wrong. It was childish... But one has to take that step as a mature person to realize that. And part of becoming a mature person is letting those who are gonna act like children act like it, and ignore it.

[forlan]

Might as well weigh in with my two cents on this, i have also noticed too many diaries that just rely on a couple of pretty pictures and basically copy and paste job from the game results wise, that is not creative on bit, the point of a diary is to use your writing ability to make people believe in your storylines and feuds and such but when a match is just X over Y via illegal tactics in 17:38 or something then followed by an angle like "The Rock comes out and talks about himself" it does not really get me excited to read on. I have had many diaries including a highly acclaimed ROH diary that lasted for a long time on .400 studios as well as various indy diaries including the currently running Indymania and NWa Domination splits on Corp-X as wlel as CHIKARA here. Now as most regulars of the scene will no, myself and Vitamin E rarely see eye to eye on anything but in this instance i agree 100% with him and Ego just comes off as childish and strikes me as one of them elitist types that puts up a net persona to make up for a lakc of fulfillment in the real world. I am not saying that graphics are by any means a bad thing, just something nice like a PPV poster, maybe hype graphic for a big match etc but the writing has to have some substance as well, now i'm not saying that everything has to be an epic write up like E for example or someone that writes out every headlock. Just something that gets across the point of what is actually going on, examples from my own CZW half of the indymania split show that it does not take much effort to get a solid match or interview or whatever wrote out. I personally dont like to write or read long written out word for word promos or blow for blow matches, just something simple i feel works well, such as [quote][b]Match Seven Ultra-Violent Underground Title Panes of Glass Deathmatch “The Psycho Shooter” Drake Younger defends against Brain Damage[/b] Drake wasted no time here as he attacked Damage during his entrance and the two men just started brutalising each other with anything that they could get their hands on and it was not long before both men were bleeding heavily. This did not deter either man and Drake almost took the three count when he gave a German Suplex to Damage onto two stacked panes of glass in the corner but the man known as “The Terminator” managed to get his shoulder up and then not long after turned the contest around with some hard rights to the face of Drake as both men began just trading stiff strikes as both were teetering until finally both went for a headbutt and connected as Drake fell down to the mat as did Brain Damage. Referee Dee Edwards started counting and both men somehow managed to get up at a nine count but then Drake charged at Damage with a big spear as both men flew through the middle rope and crashed through the timekeepers table on the outside and this time neither man could answer a ten count and this blood bath was over. [b]Winner – Draw (Younger Retains) [/b][/quote] As for angles, im happy seeing and writing such as this [quote][i]As Shiima and Jason got the belts “I’m a Hustla” hit out over the PA system and out came BLKOUT in a clearly pissed off mood as Ruckus and Sabian grabbed the belts from Shiima and Jason as the Pittsburgh natives looked bemused and seemingly completely unaware that the titles were not Niles and Derek’s to defend. Just then Niles and Derek jumped BLKOUT from behind but BFF made the save and we ended up with a three way stand off in the ring as Sabian had a hold of one belt and Niles Young the other. The music of Maven Bentley hit and he came out to address the situation and announced that after much thought he had decided that the belts would be decided next month in a four tag team ladder match between BLKOUT, Niles and Derek, Babyface Fire and the Iron Saints after their victory over Team AnDrew. Until then Maven requested that the titles be relinquished back to him as both Sabian and Niles begrudgingly handed the titles to the commissioner. [/i][/quote] I'd much rather read that sort of thing than something like X over Y via Moonsault with a shiny big picture of each that serves no purpose whatsoever Anyways like i said i agree with E on the pictures thing. I have also seen people mention blah blah expects feedback when he didnt reply in my diary, thats petty it should not be "you post in mine and i'll post in yours" because thats when you get replies like "Well Done great show" with no substance that is only wrote out of courtesy. Id rather have one reply that goes into detail about happenings of my show than 100's of replies saying KUTGW and such So like i was saying, no one is expecting a novel but also they want more than just a couple of flashy pictures hiding a poorly structured and poorly thought out diary. the main reason i do diaries personally is for my own enjoyment, enhancing my enjoyment of the game, i notice people trying to beg for feedback and some just thinking they have to do a diary because others do so half arse it. Im rambling now but i think people get the point

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=G-Prime;266964]That's a lot of text... Perhaps some graphics to break it up?[/QUOTE] I heart you.

[Astil]

Not to be constructivly critical, but isnt this in the wrong thread?

[ZMAN]

[QUOTE=Vitamin E;266959]See, i think people are confused on how I give feedback. When I leave feedback, it is mostly stating things I dont like. Unless the diary is REALLY bad, I dont go into a diary with the mindset of "this diary suck ****tard! quit because you have no talent!". Sorry if it comes off that way, but that isnt my intention. I also use the phrase "negative feedback" to differentiate between "I didnt like..." and positive feedback of "I liked...". While people may think that if someone doesnt like a diary/doesnt like part of a diary should just leave the diary, I dont do that. If I see a diary that has an interesting backstory or timeframe that I think could be booked well and/or has interesting feuds, I'll post in it with the things I dont like as a way to try and get the writer to improve or change it up. After that if the writer does or doesnt is up to him/her. I wont hassle the person by saying "Why havent you changed this? Why? HUH?! WHY HAVENT YOU CHANGED THIS YET?!?!" I'll continue to read for a bit to see if anything DOES change, and will slowly cut back on reading after a while. I do that with every diary though. I usually cut back on reading a diary once it starts gaining steam as Im more into reading diaries that are newer. There are occasions where I continue reading a diary that has a few pages, though. Just like people have their opinion of diaries, shouildnt I have mine as well? Even if the only opinions I post are the things I DONT like? Keep in mind, just because I post something I dont like in a diary doesnt mean there isnt anything I like either, unless I plain out say "there is nothing I like here". Only reason I dont make it known is because I cant really get as detailed with talking about something I like as I can for something I dont like. If people get THAT upset with being left negative feedback, then that really only further enhances my thought that the only feedback that is "allowed" here is positive "love this! you got a reader!" feedback. Obviously by allowed I dont mean as in it is an actual rule or anything. Panix, yes, some of what I said in your diary wasnt exactly constructive. At the same time, though, I did leave my opinion on your draft and everything. I apologize for not really being as constructive as I could have, and I will read your SD! show to be more constructive. My main gripes with your diary thus far are only the draft section/match section thing you had for RAW as personally the draft should be broken up with matches in between so that fans arent just sitting there for an hour listening to people say who goes to what show and give them some excitement ect, the first RAW taking up six posts which I just think isnt needed because a show really shouldnt take more than one post (unless there one post can't contain an entire show in which case you really have no choice), and the grouped (tag/women/cruiser) draft thing. Those are only three things from one show, and obviously only two things that wont happen again (the draft taking an hour and the grouped draft thing). The show taking up 6 posts thing Ill have to wait until SD! for, but you said you were changing the format or something for the SD! show. But again, I leave negative feedback because I can go into more detail with it and I personally feel it can help a writer out by letting them know things the reader DOESNT like as opposed to positive feedback. Not sure if this was an actual statement someone said against me back on the first page, but I dont care if so and so has more readers/posts in his diary than me. Im not one to get jealous over that. Im also not one that will hold a grudge against someone and let that affect my opinion of a diary. For example, if Ego has a fantastic show and I read it and cant find anything wrong with it, I won't put it down just because there is some issue between us. Right now I should note the reason I take diaries so 'seriously' is because there are some diaries that have potential, have a good premise, ect, but lack in actual writing and I want that to improve so not only can it remain good to current readers, but so it can also be even better for new readers. Also, what I am talking about with graphics is when people use them for every little thing. Like at the beginning of the show they have a picture of JR and Lawler, followed by text of what they say, graphic of a wrestler arriving plus text, then graphics of JR and Lawler again. I'm not talking about pictures of wrestlers in a match or anything that little for the most part. I dont like graphics being used in diaries just because I dont see the big deal about them. Yes, while they may break the show up or whatever for some people, they just clutter things up (especially for matches that have a lot of competitors) and they dont really break things up or make things shorter or anything to me. I use graphics in my diary, but VERY rarely. The only graphics I use is a show logo and a small graphic for title matches. They dont add anything, but it's eye candy used sparingly. In response to shipshirt, The Ego left feedback not even associated to the writing of my diary. All he did was talk about how my diary doesnt use graphics and that I had nothing to offer people (which leads to me thinking that if a diary doesnt have graphics then it cant be good to him even if it has the best writing ever), finishing off with "sorry big boy". Had he actually left feedback about a show instead of posting in my diary to diss my lack of graphics after I left negative feedback in his diary, I would have taken his feedback better. Which brings me to the point of him having a problem with me because I left negative feedback in his diary. Now, Im not going to go and attack him with calling him an ******* or something because I wont go down to his level. I mean, he can call me a tosser, say I have manbreasts in the most online attack fashion all he wants because in the end, he doesnt know me and is plain and simple acting out on his rage of me leaving him negative feedback. He is acting like some newbs at forums that if you leave negative feedback they go "ohz yeah wells itz mine so blah leave if you donts like ti!". He asks Beeker if he wants a tissue, but honestly I tihnk Ego needs a tissue if he says the thing between me and him is "personal" when the only thing I did to him was leave negative feedback in his diary. Here's the link to my post in his diary: [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=253799&postcount=174[/url]. Even after apologizing to me for being out of order and that then appreciating my comments he still has some problem with me. I dont care if he does or what it's about. He can have his problem all he wants. About my location, ect. I had that stuff from when I originally joined this board, back in 2005. I never changed it because I havent been around here in a while and forgot about that stuff.[/QUOTE] im going to need some graphics before i can read this pile of mess

[TeemuFoundation]

Oh, be quiet. That was a good, well-thought out and intelligent post.

[G-Prime]

[QUOTE=ZMAN;269196]im going to need some graphics before i can read this pile of mess[/QUOTE] I point you here, for the original version of this joke: [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=266964&postcount=75[/url]