War Of The Immortals - Idea Thread

[tommytomlin]

Hi. I can't claim credit for the idea of this mod (though I can claim credit for the wicked name), as it's a pretty well-traveled suggestion. Basically, you make a database of 1500 or so workers from the 80's, 90's and 00's (and some notable ones from the 70's), all at their in-ring peak. So you'd have Flair from the 80's, The Rock from the 00's, Sting from the 90's, all in the one world. You could book The Hardy Boyz vs Tully and Arn, or Rick Rude vs John Cena, or Umaga vs Yokozuna, or The Highlanders vs The Bushwackers, the possibilities are endless. Now, there are a few problems with this idea. The first I've already solved. Rather than focusing on workers at their popularity peak (which would mean a few dozen A* workers, which would ruin the game), we simply have workers at their in-ring peak, with a territorial overness system. Think DOTT, where Hogan was 80 in the Mid-West but 50 in the Mid-South. So, in WOTI, Ric Flair would be insanely over in the Mid-Atlantic, but only 50ish on the West Coast. Problem solved. But that leads to a bigger problem. If you have territorial overness (I may have just invented a word), you need a territory system. And that's where I'm stuck. Do I take the classic territories, your MACW's and Mid-Souths and CWA? Do I have MACW with The Horsemen and Dusty and Shane Helms and The Hardyz? Mid-South with Duggan and DiBiase and Stone Cold and HBK and Bradshaw? And if I do that, what about guys like John Cena? What territory does he go? It's easy to figure out where a guy like Sting would land, but what about Umaga? Or Ken Kennedy? Or do I keep the territory system, but with fictional promotions? Maybe have two promotions in the Carolinas to split up the talent, and three in the Tri-State because I don't know if a fed with both Bruno Sammartino and Raven would work very well? It makes my head hurt. So, I need ideas, thoughts, [I]anything[/I].

[Von Dozier]

That's an amazing idea, but that would be hard to pull off with this system. It sounds alot like All-Pro Football 2k8, an american football game where the rosters are all football legends at their peak. The developers knew they couldn't do 1-100 stats, cause then everybody would be at 95-100 overness, so they took that system out and replaced it with certain perks and special abilities for the players. Which is a great idea, but unfortunately, we're not developers and can't actually change the TEW system itself.

[flamebrain]

Maybe for the newer guys you could make them over in their home region or assign one where that doesn't work out (Like Umaga). Even use them to shore up regions that might be light(er) on stars?

[tommytomlin]

So have like... an overness bias towards the older guys? That could work. So to give a simplistic example, Hogan would be 100, Austin would be 90 and Cena would be 80?

[ColtCabana]

According to Wikipedia (not very reliable I know) but Umaga lives in Houston, Texas, so you could assign workers to where they are based. William Regal now lives in Atlanta, but there may be enough English workers to have a fed in the UK.

[Anubis]

Why not just keep the in-ring peak but have all popularity at 0 for both promotions and workers? It could also be like Chaos Mode in TEW2004: all workers start out unemployed. All promotion prestige would be 0 as well. To ensure that certain workers go to certain promotions (so John Cena doesn't end up in MACW or Sting doesn't end up in WWF), just use added personal relationships (Sting hates Vince McMahon, Jim Crockett Jr. dislikes John Cena, etc.) and such. Except I would make the NWA a single promotion (along with WWF, AWA, and WCW separately), and then work down the list of historical promotions. P.S. Make everyone 18 at the start of the game as well, unless you plan to put everyone at their "peak age".

[Vladamire Dracos]

I really don't think it matters if you go with fictional or real world promotions as long as they're styles are different enough. I was thinking it would be interesting to set up a group of historical promotions (or even variations of a few long lived promotions, like an Old School WWWF, a pre-Attitude Era WWF, and a Attitude Era WWE) at their peak popularity with just their Owners, Bookers, and non-former wrestler Staff (Announcers, Road Agents, and Referees) assigned and let them have at the talent pool ala Chaos Mode in TEW2004. I don't see a reason to limit where talent goes, if ECW want to hire Bruno Sammartino and he's willing to work there, why stop it (although Bruno Sammartino's preferences for a more old-school promotion might have him pass up on a offer from them). Let the wrestler's talent, preferences, and popularity choose where they work. I'd have the major promotions of each region represented (with some of the lesser classic promotions and maybe a few modern ones like CZW and RoH set up as Future Promotions) with the rosters from each promotion at it's peak period in the data at their own peak. Wrestlers who have had national/international exposure by thier peak period I'd let keep that exposure as their should be enough promotions that few wrestlers would go unemployed long.

[tommytomlin]

I've been toying with a giant Excel spreadsheet, and came up with an alright idea. Basically, every big wrestling region has two (fictional) promotions, and each is aligned to a different (real) megapower - either the NWA or the WWF. For example, in the Mid-Atlantic, there's Carolina Championship Wrestling (WWF-aligned) and Mid-Atlantic Pro Wrestling (NWA-aligned). That trend continues in Texas, in New York, in Canada and everywhere, until we have ten or so regional/cult promotions, each aligned to a different superpower. The best-of-the-best from each regional promotion work in either superpower. So Ric Flair main events in Mid-Atlantic Pro Wrestling, and is therefore employed in the NWA. Shawn Michaels is a star in Yet To Be Named Texas Wrestling, so also works for the WWF. Eh? NO.

[tommytomlin]

[QUOTE=Vladamire Dracos;273852] I was thinking it would be interesting to set up a group of historical promotions (or even variations of a few long lived promotions, like an Old School WWWF, a pre-Attitude Era WWF, and a Attitude Era WWE) at their peak popularity with just their Owners, Bookers, and non-former wrestler Staff (Announcers, Road Agents, and Referees) assigned and let them have at the talent pool ala Chaos Mode in TEW2004. .[/QUOTE] I hate Chaos Mode. It's fun to watch, but it's no fun to play. There is no degree of difficulty and no real struggle for the player when they can hire anybody in their price range. And if I take that idea without using Chaos Mode, if I use WWWF/WWF/WWE/NWA/WCW/ECW (which was my initial plan) an Attitude Era-And-Beyond WWE would have Austin, Rock, Kane, Mankind, Triple H, Cena, Orton, Batista, Guerrero, Big Show, Benoit, Angle, Edge, Christian, JBL et-al. A pre-attitude Era WWF would have Taker, Hogan, Hart, Savage, HBK, Nash, Hall, Yokozuna, Warrior. The only balanced fed would be the WWWF, and even that would have Andre, Sammartino, Backlund, Sheik, Morales etc. As I said in the first post, I'm pretty confident the only way this idea works is with a territory system. It also adds to the fun - you can only book the real dream matches once you hit Cult or National, because the talent is tied up in a fed you mightn't have a good relationship with. Chaos mode removes that challenge.

[Woodsmeister]

how are you going to deal with ages as some where born in the 50's/60's and some are 70's/80's are you just going to work out what age they were in there prime and assign it?

[TheMiser]

I've blown a weekend or two earlier this year trying to do this as well. Using DOTT data for personal use, I was going to make everyone 25 years old or so with great skills. I made promotions based on *product*, and assigned appropriate owners, bookers, announcers, and refs. Finally, I assigned contracts to the bulk of each roster (So Abdullah, Funk, Cactus Jack, Funk were with the "Hardcore League"). I shied away from other countries. One issue I had was the sheer number of good or over workers. Ray Stevens in his prime, Lou Thesz, Bockwinkle, Antonio Rocca, Hogan, Flair, Freddie Blassie, Bruno, Chief Jay, Gorgeous George, etc. Way too many. Like all MODS, overness rankings are the hardest. If you truly view this MOD as a collection of wrestlers from different times, who were de-aged or re-animated by a god, it makes it easier to be "fair". Who would be the most-over wrestler? Well, Hogan in the 80's had the media attention and is still universally recognized. Lou Thesz operated under a different type of media attention, but was the big dog of his era. So I was leaning towards home/promotion regions to be fair, like at the start of DOTT, like you said. Bad news is that there are hundreds of wrestlers that need to be spread across the US regions. Another issue was the time it takes to edit each one. My worker DB had skilled jobbers and mid-carders, not just the Hall of Famers, because stars need guys to beat up on... A Crisis on Infinite Earths MOD (DC comic book reference) would be a great though. I want it so bad, but I can't get away from my real DOTT game...lol..

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=tommytomlin;273896]I hate Chaos Mode. It's fun to watch, but it's no fun to play. There is no degree of difficulty and no real struggle for the player when they can hire anybody in their price range. And if I take that idea without using Chaos Mode, if I use WWWF/WWF/WWE/NWA/WCW/ECW (which was my initial plan) an Attitude Era-And-Beyond WWE would have Austin, Rock, Kane, Mankind, Triple H, Cena, Orton, Batista, Guerrero, Big Show, Benoit, Angle, Edge, Christian, JBL et-al. A pre-attitude Era WWF would have Taker, Hogan, Hart, Savage, HBK, Nash, Hall, Yokozuna, Warrior. The only balanced fed would be the WWWF, and even that would have Andre, Sammartino, Backlund, Sheik, Morales etc. As I said in the first post, I'm pretty confident the only way this idea works is with a territory system. It also adds to the fun - you can only book the real dream matches once you hit Cult or National, because the talent is tied up in a fed you mightn't have a good relationship with. Chaos mode removes that challenge.[/QUOTE] I like the Territory system alot.. I think maybe you could get all the minor known promotions in as "New Promotions" possibly. Also, I would like to see maybe a good bit of new worker's put into it.. You know, you could do this alot differently though, but not exactly CHAOS Mode... Have the Territory system, with all the guys that get really popular later in years, in the regular worker area's, and assigned to whichever promotions you think they need to be in.... Have the guys that get popular much younger, come in as new worker's, over time (trying to make everyone Peak at relatively the same time, but as they were... in age that is). Don't know if that makes scense or not. Some of the older guys didn't get popular till they were in the mid 30's or older. Some of the newer guys got popular much younger (During the Attitude Era). Andre was getting up there when he reached his peak (although was world reknown before he reached his peak). Big Show as the "Giant" got pretty popular right off the bat. People like RVD were pretty young as well (and he might not have hit his peak yet, if he comes back). Just thought that might add a bit of competition to the mod, without having all the favorite's "Set" in a promotion to start with. I would like to see only one McMahan promotion at a time..... Like maybe have the WWE as a NEW Promotion, instead of in there right off the bat. I would like to see TNA and ECW both as new promotions as well, instead of just "being there".. They could come in the first year, but I would let WWWF, WWF, and WWE all come in at least a year apart from each other. The more New Promotions, New Worker's you have, the longer the playability of the mod in my opinion (especially if you save some goodies in them).

[cappyboy]

Since you mention a team like the Highlanders in the initial post, I'm guessing in advance this is a yes. But is it safe to assume this would include your better role players as well? Like say a Koko B Ware or Tito Santana to work the midcard? Or uber-jobbers like your Duane Gill(berg)s, Barry Horowitzes and Funakis for the McMahons? The Armstrongs, The State Patrol or Southern Posse for whatever form of WCW starts off? Maybe even say a Frank "the Milkman" Milliman in the AWA? Seems like guys like these would help add to the regional flavor of your various territorites.

[sprinklefurball]

Don't forget about the Brooklyn brawler!

[Jim Force]

This war will be incomplete without The FOOOOOOOOORRRRRCCCCCCCEEEEEE!

[Anubis]

Hmmm . . . Well then maybe if I ever have the motivation, I'll do a Chaos Mode version myself or something. Like that'll ever happen, though, heh. Too involved in my diary as it is.

[Sensai of Mattitude]

[QUOTE=tommytomlin;273896]I hate Chaos Mode. It's fun to watch, but it's no fun to play. There is no degree of difficulty and no real struggle for the player when they can hire anybody in their price range.[/QUOTE] I agree, whenever anybody releases a mod like that the only save I'll ever have on it is one called 'AutoClick'. [QUOTE=tommytomlin;273896]And if I take that idea without using Chaos Mode, if I use WWWF/WWF/WWE/NWA/WCW/ECW (which was my initial plan) an Attitude Era-And-Beyond WWE would have Austin, Rock, Kane, Mankind, Triple H, Cena, Orton, Batista, Guerrero, Big Show, Benoit, Angle, Edge, Christian, JBL et-al. A pre-attitude Era WWF would have Taker, Hogan, Hart, Savage, HBK, Nash, Hall, Yokozuna, Warrior. The only balanced fed would be the WWWF, and even that would have Andre, Sammartino, Backlund, Sheik, Morales etc. [/QUOTE] Plus, if you did that it would be no fun because there would be no mix-up from the start - people wuld only be with other people from their time period that there's a good chance they've already wrestled. With starting rosters, I'd rather have people from all eras mixed up into the same promotion. I think that's what would provide the funnest results. The territory system that it seems as if you're going to be using sounds fine to me. Not having ever made a mod, I'm sure you know alot more than I could ever suggest. :p

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=tommytomlin;273770]Hi. I can't claim credit for the idea of this mod (though I can claim credit for the wicked name), as it's a pretty well-traveled suggestion. Basically, you make a database of 1500 or so workers from the 80's, 90's and 00's (and some notable ones from the 70's), all at their in-ring peak. So you'd have Flair from the 80's, The Rock from the 00's, Sting from the 90's, all in the one world. You could book The Hardy Boyz vs Tully and Arn, or Rick Rude vs John Cena, or Umaga vs Yokozuna, or The Highlanders vs The Bushwackers, the possibilities are endless. Now, there are a few problems with this idea. The first I've already solved. Rather than focusing on workers at their popularity peak (which would mean a few dozen A* workers, which would ruin the game), we simply have workers at their in-ring peak, with a territorial overness system. Think DOTT, where Hogan was 80 in the Mid-West but 50 in the Mid-South. So, in WOTI, Ric Flair would be insanely over in the Mid-Atlantic, but only 50ish on the West Coast. Problem solved. But that leads to a bigger problem. If you have territorial overness (I may have just invented a word), you need a territory system. And that's where I'm stuck. Do I take the classic territories, your MACW's and Mid-Souths and CWA? Do I have MACW with The Horsemen and Dusty and Shane Helms and The Hardyz? Mid-South with Duggan and DiBiase and Stone Cold and HBK and Bradshaw? And if I do that, what about guys like John Cena? What territory does he go? It's easy to figure out where a guy like Sting would land, but what about Umaga? Or Ken Kennedy? Or do I keep the territory system, but with fictional promotions? Maybe have two promotions in the Carolinas to split up the talent, and three in the Tri-State because I don't know if a fed with both Bruno Sammartino and Raven would work very well? It makes my head hurt. So, I need ideas, thoughts, [I]anything[/I].[/QUOTE] No fair reading my mind! :( I was thinking the same thing yesterday. I thought, what if you combined DOTT with a mid-90s mod, and a modern mod (like T-Zone or 1RC)? Put the promotions and wrestlers against each other. Granted, you'd only get one version of each wrestler and promotion. So you'd have to decide which to go with. But now that you've probed my brain and taken my idea... :p ;) Really, though, I'm glad you're doing it. I didn't know that it's a "well traveled idea." I haven't read it before. I just thought of it myself. But, good luck. Given your previous mods, I know you'll do a great job with it :D

[tommytomlin]

[QUOTE=Anubis;274124]Hmmm . . . Well then maybe if I ever have the motivation, I'll do a Chaos Mode version myself or something. Like that'll ever happen, though, heh. Too involved in my diary as it is.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure you can make your own Chaos Mode by deleting contract.tw7 and replacing it with a blank one? I've never tried it, but I assume that would delete all the worker contracts.

[tommytomlin]

Ok, having read the posts and tinkered with my Excel file of doom, I'm set on a territory system. Woods asked about ages - I've set the mod in 2007 (saves changing the ages of current workers in their peak), so will just update old guy's DOB. I think Andre was now born in 1965ish now he's [I][B][U]Immortal[/U][/B][/I]. I like the idea of a race to Cult/National, with the winner receiving the chance to break free from the promotional-pact, exclusive PPA, loyalty BS of the territory system and make some [I]real [/I]dream matches. But I still don't know how to do it, with fake or real territories. Basically, there's way too much talent to spread around. The amount of real life territories around in say 1982 isn't enough. I need about... ten more promotions than there actually is, and I'd like if all of them were pretty much the same size. But if I do real and fake, who is going to play 'Carolina Championship Wrestling' when you can just play MACW? And will people bitch if Dusty Rhodes is in the fake CCW instead of MACW?

[Anubis]

[QUOTE=tommytomlin;274205]Ok, having read the posts and tinkered with my Excel file of doom, I'm set on a territory system. Woods asked about ages - I've set the mod in 2007 (saves changing the ages of current workers in their peak), so will just update old guy's DOB. I think Andre was now born in 1965ish now he's [I][B][U]Immortal[/U][/B][/I]. I like the idea of a race to Cult/National, with the winner receiving the chance to break free from the promotional-pact, exclusive PPA, loyalty BS of the territory system and make some [I]real [/I]dream matches. But I still don't know how to do it, with fake or real territories. Basically, there's way too much talent to spread around. The amount of real life territories around in say 1982 isn't enough. I need about... ten more promotions than there actually is, and I'd like if all of them were pretty much the same size. But if I do real and fake, who is going to play 'Carolina Championship Wrestling' when you can just play MACW? And will people bitch if Dusty Rhodes is in the fake CCW instead of MACW?[/QUOTE] Well there are plenty of promotions historically, but to be quite honest, most people have never heard of most or any of them, so they would still be like having fictional promotions in there. I say use all the primary promotions that people have heard of and then add in fictional promotions. On that note, feel free to add me in there with my promotion, Imperia Wrestling Franchise, IWF.

[sprinklefurball]

Tommy, you did such a good job with the fictional promotions in After The Fall, why not just make it fictional territories?

[DocStevens]

Maybe you could blend promotions from all time periods (60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, current day) as well as take some from CVerse if you run out. Of course no matter what you do somebody will complain. ;)

[Lucied]

I think you could do fictional feds. You could separate them by style. Like a traditional fed, a "Sports Entertainment" fed, a hardcore fed, etc. That way, you could put guys like Abdula The Butcher, Terry Funk, Sabu, etc. in the hardcore fed. Put guys like Flair, Dusty, Steamboat, Triple H, the Harts, CM Punk, etc. in the traditional fed. And put guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin, Undertaker, Cena, etc. in the Sports Entertainment fed. Of course, you could mix up styles, and you'd also need each style represented in each territory. (American wrestlers only in the American feds, Canadian wrestlers only in Canadian feds, etc.) Obviously, the AI will mix up the rosters quite a bit once the game gets going, but that's where the interesting part comes in. Will each wrestler be able to survive in a style they aren't usually accustomed to? Just a thought.

[TheMiser]

Correct, it is much more practical to do it by styles anyway.