Disappointing Event - What?

[DownNDirty]

I'm sorry if this has been addressed but I tried searching topics and didn't find anything exactly like my question.. I am up to Sunday Week 2 August 98.......just had my GAMMA card on Saturday. I held it in Texas which was the #3 choice and got an attendance of 10,000 people and PPV revenue over $20,000,000. I made this a "supercard" as I didn't schedule a card in July at all to let fighters rest. Here's the match breakdowns... Main Event: Julio Regueiro beat Gabriel Gallego by decision **** John Rivero retains the Light Heavyweight Title by round 5 decision over Zvonimir Asanovic **** Fernando Amaro beat Buddy Garner by TKO round 2 to win the GAMMA Middleweight Title *** Marcus Speed beat Sean Morrison (suffering his first loss since I started promoting in 10 fights) for the GAMMA Lightweight Title by decision in round 5 *** Rav Kapur beat Tim Boyer TKO 1:35 round 1 **** Patrick Thomas beat Sukarno (first match out of retirement 173-0) by decision round 3 ** Charles Stiles beats Brandon Sugar by submission 3:53 round 1 ** Fatuma Roy over Rick Stanley by decision round 3 *** Peter Bracewell beat Gene Oakley by decision round 3 ** The top two matches on the card were rated extremely high going in, the next two very high, the next two high, and the last two above average. Breakdown shows to me that I had three four star matches, three three star matches, and three two star matches. To me, I can't see how the fans go away disgruntled after that card. This isn't the first time it's happened to me but it's the first time it's actually bothered me in the game. When you lose popularity overall and have a card like that it's just a bit upsetting. Not enough to make me quit playing the game or anything but I just don't know what to do in order to send them home happy when I have 3 four star matches in a nine match card and NO stinkers.

[Gizza]

I agree with you, i had a whole card of extremely high or high hyped matchs and the fans hated my event and that, not sure what ya can do to please them or what to do on the game to make it work

[Adam Ryland]

You haven't said what your popularity was. As I've explained before, the expectations are based upon your popularity - the higher it is, the better the show needs to be.

[Bossman]

I think those 2 star matches made the event worse.

[Michael]

[QUOTE=Bossman;333688]I think those 2 star matches made the event worse.[/QUOTE] If that's how the game works, I don't like that very much. In reality, if the main event and the semi-main event of a supercard like that were **** worthy matches, nobody would give much of a consideration for the undercard at all. The higher matches should have a MUCH bigger influence on the crowds judgement of a show, since they are invariably the fights they have paid to come and see anyway. Really, MMA undercards are negligible in their importance to the quality of the overall card. They aren't often expected to be good. They are only ever talked about if they steal the show, not if they stink.

[NickC13573]

half true, An undercard is supposed to be like a good ref, you dont notice it, usually. But on occasion you get the Shad Lierly (sp) vs. Chris Horodecki undercard match that steals the show. I have seen MMA events where if the undercard totally sucked, the main Event wasnt any good.

[VBigB]

[QUOTE=Michael;333691]If that's how the game works, I don't like that very much. In reality, if the main event and the semi-main event of a supercard like that were **** worthy matches, nobody would give much of a consideration for the undercard at all. The higher matches should have a MUCH bigger influence on the crowds judgement of a show, since they are invariably the fights they have paid to come and see anyway. Really, MMA undercards are negligible in their importance to the quality of the overall card. They aren't often expected to be good. They are only ever talked about if they steal the show, not if they stink.[/QUOTE] Straight from the help file...it really does help sometimes [QUOTE]After the matches are done, a show is given an overall rating for every game region that has access to the show (i.e. the region where it was held, plus any region which has TV or PPV access to it). [B] This is initially constructed from the individual match ratings, with a heavy bias towards the main event and the anticipation that had built. [/B] This is then modified through a series of bonus and penalty points (for example, it may lose points if you only gave three matches, as clearly that's a very small amount). This rating is then compared to the popularity in that region to decide upon the effect. What is important to remember is that the rating is basically a measure of how impressed the fans in each region are with the show. [B] A region where you are totally unknown will have low expectations, and on flip side, a region where you are hugely popular will not be satisfied with a mediocre show. [/B] Therefore it is totally possible to gain popularity in some regions while simultaneously losing popularity in others. [/QUOTE]

[DownNDirty]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;333675]You haven't said what your popularity was. As I've explained before, the expectations are based upon your popularity - the higher it is, the better the show needs to be.[/QUOTE] My promotion is Enormous Popularity in US is Fantastic, good in Canada, mediocre in Japan, Mexico, UK, and Europe, weak in South America, poor in Asia, and awful in Australia. I do understand with my promotion being so big that I need to put on good cards but at the same time I feel to run a promotion as one should run an MMA promotion you have to have some matches in each card that are undercard matchups to build up guys. I even try to carefully select these matches in my big shows to make good matchups that fans will generally want to see - those are my two star matches. I understand that my promotion is very big but it seems the bigger I get the more the fans expect - which IS true to some degree in MMA but in another respect it shouldn't affect the fans perception when my top four matches deliver and the rest on the undercard are what is expected. I guess I could try a card with matches that are all at least ranked high but then that puts you in a spot because your next card will have to be depleted since you have probably used all of your big guns on one card. The card I had above had alot of big fights but I still left enough wiggle room to have another great card next time out. But if the fans don't like it when I put on that many 4 star contests I don't see how I won't keep losing popularity. I suppose it won't matter because if I lose enough popularity I guess I can build it back up. I'm not saying that the system is wrong I just think the deeper I get into the game the more frustrating it will become. I've had 3 out of my past 5 "big" cards leaving the fans underwhelmed and one of them had a 5 star main event and no lower than a 2 star match on that card either. Still very much enjoying the game as it's very much addictive. I can't wait to see how some of this stuff in the WMMA game will translate to the next TEW game either.

[Adam Ryland]

No - I mean your popularity in that region. Use the in-game editor and you can see what the figure is.

[badbeat]

seems like there should be a cap on what fans expect.... It could be the Pride Say Goodbye Finale Show on New Years EVE with 90k in attendance and if it has 8 big names and 3 4 star matches, 2 3 star matches, and 3 2 star matches fans are NOT going to leave underwelmed for the most part...

[Michael]

Surely if the promotion is having a show in one of its hotbeds, the crowd are going to be so into it that the crowd will be EASIER to win over, rather than putting on a show in a new market where fans are more sceptical of the product. After fans have seen one fantastic MMA show, on the basis that this one could be as good as that one was. That's actually sorta how the MMA biz works. As in, say Fighter A has a decent run and challenges for the Title against a big name fighter. Fighter A has a fantastic battle and manages to win. They are now going to be popular for that win and the knowledge, from the crowd, that Fighter A has the potential to be that entertaining and that good. Now Fighter A might go on to face other big name fighters and have some stinkers but ultimately, their popularity will not wain too much as long as they keep winning.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Michael;333729]Surely if the promotion is having a show in one of its hotbeds, the crowd are going to be so into it that the crowd will be EASIER to win over, rather than putting on a show in a new market where fans are more sceptical of the product.[/QUOTE] I don't think you've really considered that from a game point of view - if it got easier as your popularity got higher, there'd be absolutely no challenge whatsoever!

[Michael]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;333732]I don't think you've really considered that from a game point of view - if it got easier as your popularity got higher, there'd be absolutely no challenge whatsoever![/QUOTE] The challenge would be trying to continually build up different geographical markets while sustaining the "cash cow" areas. You would have to ensure that your established fanbase continued to get a good show to stop them from turning their attention to new competition (as MMA is far less about the promotion and far more about who's fighting, thus brand loyalty is not that concrete) while breaking into the new markets by putting on entertaining shows. Also, something I'd like to see in the sequel with hopefully more promotions, would be "market stealing". For example, GAMMA could build up a real solid MMA following in California that tales them years to do by getting TV coverage etc. and then a rival promotion, seeing the popularity of the market in the region, could instantly come in and profiteer off of GAMMA's market establishment. Of course, their market share won't be anywhere near GAMMA's to begin with, but, for instance, their attendance will be a lot higher than GAMMA'S first one in the region due to the aforementioned established fanbase which is larger and therefore easier to access and benefit from. They will instantly get more reward for less investment, but obviously face a difficulty in terms of overcoming scales of economy against the more established promotion - i.e. the bigger company will largely have the better known fighters.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Michael;333736]The challenge would be trying to continually build up different geographical markets while sustaining the "cash cow" areas. You would have to ensure that your established fanbase continued to get a good show to stop them from turning their attention to new competition (as MMA is far less about the promotion and far more about who's fighting, thus brand loyalty is not that concrete) while breaking into the new markets by putting on entertaining shows. Also, something I'd like to see in the sequel with hopefully more promotions, would be "market stealing". For example, GAMMA could build up a real solid MMA following in California that tales them years to do by getting TV coverage etc. and then a rival promotion, seeing the popularity of the market in the region, could instantly come in and profiteer off of GAMMA's market establishment. Of course, their market share won't be anywhere near GAMMA's to begin with, but, for instance, their attendance will be a lot higher than GAMMA'S first one in the region due to the aforementioned established fanbase which is larger and therefore easier to access and benefit from. They will instantly get more reward for less investment, but obviously face a difficulty in terms of overcoming scales of economy against the more established promotion - i.e. the bigger company will largely have the better known fighters.[/QUOTE] I think you're misunderstanding me. I understand how building a promotion is a challenge - no offense, but if anyone is going to understand that, it'd be me, I have written one or two games on those principles! I'm referring specifically to the challenge of putting on a show in a specific region - having it become easier as your become more popular is totally illogical from a game point of view, there's no challenge if the expectations go down while your resources, popularity and money go up.

[Dopefish]

Maybe you should have booked a fight with a massive build up so it would have been 5 stars.

[DantesWitness]

I think the concern the original poster had is that if three four star matches aren't good enough, regardless of the popularity of the promotion, that they cannot withstand being dragged down by a pair of two star matches buried in the undercard, how can a person ever satisfy the fans while still giving up-and-comers a place on the card? In other words, are the expectations too unrealistically high?

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=DantesWitness;333746]I think the concern the original poster had is that if three four star matches aren't good enough, regardless of the popularity of the promotion, that they cannot withstand being dragged down by a pair of two star matches buried in the undercard, how can a person ever satisfy the fans while still giving up-and-comers a place on the card? In other words, are the expectations too unrealistically high?[/QUOTE] Let me try and clear this up: 1 - The undercard isn't dragging it down, at least not by any significant margin; Bossman said that it was, not me, people seem to have taken that as gospel. 2 - Nobody seems to have considered what the star ratings actually mean. Everyone is talking like a four star match must be absolutely awesome; remember, it is just a reflection of a hidden number. What I mean is that you have to consider what the "lower limit" is for that rating. Let's say that a four star rating was 65 - 80% (that is totally off the top of my head, it is almost certainly not really that). Now say that the show was held in a 90% region (which is why I asked what the poster's popularity was). If you then look at the original poster's show as two 65% matches headlining a 90% region, it's not looking so great, is it?

[Deattribution]

That definately seems a bit harsh, I understand that you need a challenge as you get higher but three 4-star matches along with the other 3-star matches would be a outstanding card in real life. In MMA if your main event, and your co-main event delivers, you get another 'good' bout and nothing else stinks up the joint it's a good card.

[DownNDirty]

Adam, Please don't think that I was trying to criticize you with my original post. I have bought every one of your games and will continue to do so as long as you feel like making them. I just wanted to know what I needed to be doing differently and I can see where you are coming from in your last couple of posts. I guess I'm so used to wrestling ratings and know that a four star match is a dang good match - and three four star matches out of nine would be one heck of a good card. I guess if all of them were "low" four star matches it could hurt the popularity but it's still a hard pill to swallow lol. But hey, it's only a game and it's not taking away from my enjoyment of it that much - it just confused me that I could have such a good card, or so I thought, and the fans still not leave happy.

[Deattribution]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;333754]Let me try and clear this up: 2 - Nobody seems to have considered what the star ratings actually mean. Everyone is talking like a four star match must be absolutely awesome; remember, it is just a reflection of a hidden number. What I mean is that you have to consider what the "lower limit" is for that rating. Let's say that a four star rating was 65 - 80% (that is totally off the top of my head, it is almost certainly not really that). Now say that the show was held in a 90% region (which is why I asked what the poster's popularity was). If you then look at the original poster's show as two 65% matches headlining a 90% region, it's not looking so great, is it?[/QUOTE] This makes more sense, but shouldn't there be a bit more leniency toward having disgruntled fans? Like having an outcome that doesn't result in gaining or losing fans but having everything stay the same? Edit to add - If not a bit more leniency in having that kind of result, could the ratings be more tightened up to not be as misleading?

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Deattribution;333756]That definately seems a bit harsh, I understand that you need a challenge as you get higher but three 4-star matches along with the other 3-star matches would be a outstanding card in real life.[/QUOTE] That depends on what your definition of a 3 and 4 star match are. That's the point I'm trying to get across - nobody seems to be taking into account that a 3 star match in WMMA might not be what you would call a 3 star match in real life. It's a subjective rating system.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=DownNDirty;333762]Please don't think that I was trying to criticize you with my original post.[/QUOTE] No problem, I wasn't taking it as criticism - I'm just trying to clear up the issue as I think people are misunderstanding the feature. [QUOTE=Deattribution;333765]This makes more sense, but shouldn't there be a bit more leniency toward having disgruntled fans? Like having an outcome that doesn't result in gaining or losing fans but having everything stay the same?[/QUOTE] There is that option. Each show gets a hidden rating that is used for calculations, and there is a "neutral" rating that wouldn't effect anything. Also, please remember that "you lost popularity" has to be taken with a grain of salt - that could be 0.1% that you've lost, the computer is only giving you a literal piece of feedback!

[Deattribution]

I appreciate the feedback to explain it. I can just understand the original poster's frustration when you put on what appears to be before hand, and afterwards by all appearences a good card and you get a negative result.

[Adam Ryland]

I have noted it down to look into tomorrow; I'll see if I can't make the feedback and bit more informative to stop this being misunderstood in future.

[Deattribution]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;333774]I have noted it down to look into tomorrow; I'll see if I can't make the feedback and bit more informative to stop this being misunderstood in future.[/QUOTE] Sounds good, thanks!