Stagnating

[lordprimeau25]

I am running the December 2007 mod. I am playing as JAPW. As many of us my current goal is to take this small promotion and bring them to a nat'l level. I DO realize that this takes time but of late things have been at a stand still, whereas 2-3 months ago I was gaining notoriety at a nice rate that has now slowed. I am at D+ pop in Tri-State. E in 3 other regions. F everywhere else. Most of my upper mids and mains popularity are C in tri-state and many are C-ish in most of the rest of the U.S. My upper feuds all have about C-ish heat, lower and tag about E-ish. My problem is that I'm not sure how to go about spreading out and becoming popular elsewhere and getting bigger tv deals. All I have is a local deal. I also want ppv's. Another item that is problematic is that the industry and economy in the US is at a D and falling thus my attendance is dropping and I am now losing money. So at this rate how might I go about continuing to raise my workers and promotion's popularity? Has anyone else taken a similar route? Thanks for helping out a newb!

[Michael Wayne]

run in another country where the industry and economy are high or at least better than where you're at. Put your growth in America on hold until the economy and industry start to return.

[Rob4590]

At your current popularity, you are regional - therefore your next step is to get to cult, which is C- popularity in 2 regions. Now it sounds like you said you had a TV show but only showing in your home region. Ok - so the way to go now is to run at least half your TV shows in one other region. What this will do is increase your popularity in that region (due to the live audience seeing it) while also raising your overness in your home region (via TV audience) As far as the finances go - you will just have to budget carefully - its fairly easy to figure out your income from the shows (audience * ticket price(at that overness level)), you can get a rough idea of how much sponsorship money you are getting each month from the finances chart. Now take off the cost of the venues, and that leaves you with the amount you can afford to pay for workers for the 4 shows (per month). Try and use as few as possible - double up workers - so that a main eventer with good mic skills also does commentary (instead of having to pay a commentator), another guy with good psychology does the road agent job instead of the standard RA. Make sure you do not have anyone pushed as either a Road Agent or a personality - since they get paid EVERY SHOW, whether you use them or not. Change your merchandising to JUST IN TIME. [QUOTE=Michael Wayne;370407]run in another country where the industry and economy are high or at least better than where you're at. Put your growth in America on hold until the economy and industry start to return.[/QUOTE] That is quite possibly the WORST bit of advice I've ever seen on here! :rolleyes: Going to another country will mean that you are running shows in areas where you pretty much have zero popularity, therefore your gate money will be miniscule, so you'll lose even more money! Plus you won't be getting any closer to increasing in size, and will therefore never get to see the benefits of PPV income (at cult size) which will help your finances.

[Mtm2k6]

I agree, that is pretty much sucky adivce, no offece, lol. If you're losing money, stay in the Tri State where you're based and just try and keep a healthy balance. Look for other areas where a lot of your workers also work and have overness and branch into there.

[Gigas]

Id just work on getting 2 regions to C- for Cult. And using The Pop Network always helps.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=Rob4590;370429] That is quite possibly the WORST bit of advice I've ever seen on here! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] seriously. Were you even paying attention to the thread? He said he's losing money because the US industry and economy are down. Which means running shows in his country is going to kill his finances further as he won't be making enough money to sustain running the shows? If the economy and industry are down, it's common sense attendance will be down and revenue is pretty much out. He needs to find a country where the industry and economy is rising and where he can benefit from running shows there. It's the best advice because I've fought through it with a small promotion in a niche market. What he should do is run his tv show as you said in another area in the states and I say this because if he runs tapings in another country where his overness is low, it's going to affect his ratings and overness where the show is watched. Run the tv show in the US, and run non-televised events in countries where the industry is better than it is in the US. The other part of that and keeping finances down is to use your main eventers for the tv show, and use everyone else for the small events in other countries. Now, if there's no countries on the rise or with a better economy and industry than in the US, then by all means, stick with what you said. Seriously... Shooting for cult is the worst thing he can do at this point. The industry is down, the economy is down and once he hits cult he can expect to lose even MORE money with the misc expenditures. You're gonna bankrupt him. He needs to take his time and not rush to get to cult.

[lordprimeau25]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all of your help. Would it be wise to tape my tv shows to air on my local station in another country then. So I can collect the gate from the countries with a good industry and still get popularity from my tv deal?

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=lordprimeau25;370727]Thanks guys, I really appreciate all of your help. Would it be wise to tape my tv shows to air on my local station in another country then. So I can collect the gate from the countries with a good industry and still get popularity from my tv deal?[/QUOTE] only when your workers are over enough in those areas where it won't affect the ratings in your home region. Keep running your tv show in the US, but run small events in the area where the industry and economy are better off. Ride the wave until the US state turns back around. Otherwise you're just going to bleed your wallet further trying to "plow through". As you've noticed you're not getting a high enough turnout like you were because the state the US is in with the economy and the industry. It's costing you money to run your promotion, but people aren't interested in wrestling and aren't spending the money on it. So trying to force it is only going to ruin you financially until it turns around. In the meantime, run non-televised shows in a country where everything is on the rise, or is at least higher than in the US. Your turnout will be small, but run there for a few months and your attendances and income will increase.

[Derek B]

I seriously doubt a regional promotion is going to be over enough in a foreign country to be able to make the same amount of money they would if they ran shows in their home regions. Even with the industry in a downturn you should IMO be sticking to a few core regions and using those to get yourself into a stronger position domestically. If you need to save money then.... 1. Fire people with downiside agreements. They cost you money every month regardless of you using them. Since they are also likely to be your highest PPA workers anyway you can afford to get rid of them. 2. Don't run shows. If you don't have expenditure from downsides then you won't be paying people during a month off. Most promotions make money from their sponsors and merchandise. 3. Make sure you aren't doubling up on stuff. You only need one good road agent, 1 good referee, 1 good announcer, 1 good colour man. And if you're lucky you don't even need that. Don't get the BEST you can, get the most suitable. If a C is good enough, don't pay three times as much for an A. Better TV deals come when you grow... and PPV comes from being cult size. PPV brings a LOT of cash to you so you want to grow eventually but not yet. Running your shows in the US can help you gain popularity in more regions. If I were you I'd try to expand from the Tri-State to the South East. Should help you get prepared for Cult level by time the industry pulls out of it's slump.

[lordprimeau25]

Sounds good, I may try to experiment with all of your ideas and see which one seems to be more effective. They both seem like viable options so I will give them both a go. I will be sure to report back and let you guys know how they work so we can assist others with this problem in the future. Has anyone ever seen the industry that poor in the US. Most regiosn are D- industry and D- economy.

[sheepy]

Also, another tactic would be to run half hour shows not on tv. You get higher ticket revenues and with a shorter show you can often get higher ratings with these shows. With lower worker costs and higher ticket prices this should cover the money you're losing and speed up the rise to cult.

[Gigas]

my game is 15 months along, and the US economy and wrestling industry have been falling since day 1. Its currently at C- and F+. At its best, it was B+, D-. Its so bad I just lost my TV show in the USA. Luckily for me I had enough interest in Canada to get a TV deal where I can pull down ratings of .02. Of course, no TV in your home region sucks.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=sheepy;370911]Also, another tactic would be to run half hour shows not on tv. You get higher ticket revenues and with a shorter show you can often get higher ratings with these shows. With lower worker costs and higher ticket prices this should cover the money you're losing and speed up the rise to cult.[/QUOTE] at regional you'd be lucky if they let you raise ticket prices. You'd likely see a further drop in attendance along with a nice message about fans bitching over the price of admission.

[lordprimeau25]

[QUOTE=Gigas;370954]my game is 15 months along, and the US economy and wrestling industry have been falling since day 1. Its currently at C- and F+. At its best, it was B+, D-. Its so bad I just lost my TV show in the USA. Luckily for me I had enough interest in Canada to get a TV deal where I can pull down ratings of .02. Of course, no TV in your home region sucks.[/QUOTE] We have played about the same length. Yea in my region where my show airs I am getting .03-.05 ratings. The industry is so bad, WWE only has one show left called WWE Live Action and it airs at 12:00am on the hallmark channel. TNA and ROH each have some regionally aired show, and that leave sme as the last US federation with a tv show. ITS BAD!!!

[Greg McNeish]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;370978]at regional you'd be lucky if they let you raise ticket prices. You'd likely see a further drop in attendance along with a nice message about fans bitching over the price of admission.[/QUOTE] I think he's just refering to the natural increase that comes from running an "Event" rather than a "TV Show". At D+ Popularity, you'll gain roughly an extra $5 per ticket. If that's enough to make it a profitable venture, then it's worth a go.

[lordprimeau25]

Problems continue As if the economy tanking wasn't a big enough problem for me, many of my top workers contracts are expiring. Guess What? 3 of my 4 main eventers all feel my promotion isn't big enough for them now! What the heck do i do now? Can I survive this?

[Michael Wayne]

this might work in your favor as it should help your finances. Start working on your guys that have long contracts. You won't have to worry about them leaving you. Anyone who might be leaving in the forseable future should be used to groom your "future" talent.

[sheepy]

job them to your guys on lower popularity with contracts that aren't gonna expire in the near future. This way if you can't afford the main eventers then you're transfer their popularity over to the guys they can afford. Added benefit, if you job them enough then they're likely to be more willing to extend their contracts with you because they will now be less popular.

[lordprimeau25]

Definitely a viable option. I was grooming a guy for the top and have him at upper midacrd. I guess his main event push will have to come sooner rather than later. I hope the fans don't resent him if I give him the strap...

[Gigas]

I had to push Trent Shaffer to my main event when Bruce The Giant decided to bolt, along with 2 other wrestlers with B popularity. Trent was at C+ in the USA, and A in Canada. After Bruce the Giant jobbed to him, Trent was an A* in the USA as well. Not bad considering his popularity in the USA was at a D-, before it defaulted at C+ due to his incredible overness in Canada, a month previous.

[lordprimeau25]

...Also an industry section Isn't it a bit ecessive for all of my workers to need a character change every 10-14 months. In real life it seems to go 2-5 years between character/disposition changes. Furthermore... I'm slowly dying! The industry is at a D- and falling and the economy is E- and falling. How long does it usually take for this stuff to turn around. Its been slumping for 2 years now and I need it to turn around or I will go bankrupt.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=lordprimeau25;389627]Isn't it a bit ecessive for all of my workers to need a character change every 10-14 months. In real life it seems to go 2-5 years between character/disposition changes. [/QUOTE] Remember Austin as the model here. Rebel. Redneck. Bad Ass. All different gimmicks by TEW standards, all part of the character evolution.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;370604]seriously. Were you even paying attention to the thread? He said he's losing money because the US industry and economy are down. Which means running shows in his country is going to kill his finances further as he won't be making enough money to sustain running the shows? If the economy and industry are down, it's common sense attendance will be down and revenue is pretty much out. He needs to find a country where the industry and economy is rising and where he can benefit from running shows there. It's the best advice because I've fought through it with a small promotion in a niche market. What he should do is run his tv show as you said in another area in the states and I say this because if he runs tapings in another country where his overness is low, it's going to affect his ratings and overness where the show is watched. [/QUOTE] Can't agree here, MW. Most of this hinges on product. In my AJW game, I can put on C to B rated shows in the Tri-State area (I'm based in Japan). Quick, name a women's worker who is crazy over in the Tri-State? No one on my roster. But if your promotion's product is skill-based (which mine is) and you have a lot of skilled workers (which I do), you can put on highly rated shows pretty much no matter where you go. I put on a B- rated show at SMALL (Aja Kong vs Mima Shimoda as the main event, Cheerleader Melissa & Mariko Yoshida vs D-FIX as the lead-in). So all of this stuff about not being able to produce decently rated shows outside of your home region is fruitless because we don't know lordprimeau's product. Personally, I never concern myself with the local economy or industry. I only run shows in packed houses (so if the estimated attendance is say 5400, I'd run the show in a venue that holds 5000 max), I use a relatively small number of workers (and cycle them regularly), I stagger my venues to promote overall growth (so I don't concern myself with getting to X level ASAP. I prepare myself so on a couple of occasions, I've skipped National and gone from Cult to International. Takes a while but that's primarily because my primary focus is worker development and I have no qualms about back-burnering a worker who is getting perhaps a bit too popular). I would recommend scaling down your shows. As suggested, use fewer workers, cycle them regularly, and keep your expenses low by only running your TV show with the bare minimum of workers. Ride it out for the time being. It's what I'd do in your position.

[sheepy]

What size are you at the moment? How much are you're main eventers on?

[lordprimeau25]

Remianen and Sheepy: Remi- For the most part I am following your advice, just trying to ride the slump out. The slump has been going for like 2 years, I am just asking if anyone has experianced such long industry slumps before and will it bottom out or soon start on the upswing again. My product is modern. My current size is regional. E in most of the states. D in Tri-State. I have fired all of my purely entertainers because I want high match quality, so like you Remi- given the money (which is scarce!) I can put on a decent show anywhere. All of my mid-carders and down are mainly just good wrestlers. My upper-mids and mains are entertainers and most of my best wrestlers. I run a 30 minute house show once a week only in my E popularity regions. I only run in venues that I will be able to fill. I use my cheapest workers so not to lose money as the only goal here is to gain popularity. I typically put on a D show so at E popularity I am slowly achieving what I want. I also run an hour TV show once a week and a medium end of month event every month. At both of these I primarily only feature my mains and upper mids as it is the only way I can get a rating C- or higher. Obviously I run these in Tri-State where I am most popular so I can get the greatest attendance possible. As soon as this slump ends I should be able to grow much quicker as I will be able to use my high paid main eventers on a much more regular basis.