Chemistry

[cps_1908]

I know this has been mentioned many, many times before, so I will apologise in advance, but I need to get this of my chest. The chemistry feature of this game is extremely frustrating. It is totally unrealistic. It seems to just affect any wrestler at random regardless of how good there stats are and how experienced they are. An example would be that you could book HBK v Kurt Angle and end up with a match rating 4 points lower than normal because of chemistry. Even ignoring that fact that Kurt and HBK have really good chemistry in real life, when was the last time Shawn Michaels had a poor match with any main event / upper card wrestler? Chemistry should not affect the wrestlers with really top stats because is doesn’t in real life. I’m not saying that the top guys don’t have poor matches just that generally with the top wrestlers it only happens against opponents with lower ability. I just had a Top wrestler have to C+ matches in row against two different main eventers because he does not have chemistry. His momentum and the storyline he is in are completely ruined. While the top wrestlers have the ability to compensate for “lack of chemistry with an opponent” it is fairly realistic that some may not have the ability do so. The fact remains however that when dealing with the top wrestlers, chemistry should not totally ruin a match to the extent it currently does. If the WWE had a main event match for a PPV ruined and the wrestlers involved claimed the reason they for this was chemistry or lack thereof, they would end up in TNA quicker than Vince could say “Your Fired”. In the event that the WWE have a really poor match, due to one of the workers not having the ability to compensate, and a rematch is planned, they make the rematch a gimmick match to Compensate for this. This does not make any difference in the current TEW game as the match rating remains 4 points lower tan normal. Another thing in the current TEW game is that if you add a third wrestler and have a triple threat match you can get a normal rating. In my current game Jeff Hardy has poor chemistry with Y2J and Orton but in a triple threat match can still get a match rating equal to the rating he gets with opponents he doesn’t have poor chemistry with. As this game is supposed to accurately simulate wrestling I do not believe it does so with chemistry as it is at the moment. Since the opinions on this forum appear to be split down the middle with this issue, and since its unlikely chemistry can be tweaked to work accurately to everyone’s preference could it not be made optional or editable so everyone can be happy? Two other minor points I want to make. 1: Why does it take 5 or more house shows to get a report back on chemistry between workers, when a road agent can tell you after one televised or for that matter dark match on the sows you book yourself. 2: Why do tag match rating seem to have some kind of immediate penalty insuring you never get an A+ rating no matter how over the wrestlers are and how over the storyline is.

[Irish Wolf]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388010]Two other minor points I want to make. 1: Why does it take 5 or more house shows to get a report back on chemistry between workers, when a road agent can tell you after one televised or for that matter dark match on the sows you book yourself. 2: Why do tag match rating seem to have some kind of immediate penalty insuring you never get an A+ rating no matter how over the wrestlers are and how over the storyline is.[/QUOTE] I'm not going to touch the chemistry thing right now as it's a long answer and I'm at work but here are the others. 1) Because house shows have random match ups between workers and the road agent there is waiting to see the match you want in question. So the more workers you have on house show duty the less like you will be seeing the match ups your waiting to hear about chemistry for, and if your the WWE that's a lot of wrestlers. The solution is limit the people doing house shows to just a handful and you'll see the results quicker. That's what I did for my TCW game and I blew through 2 or 3 road agent notes per show. 2) Most people put their lower card workers as tag teams to get them in ring training so they aren't going to be the best nor are they going to be the most over and they aren't going to be fighting the best or most over guys so the ratings are going to be lower. Now in my CZCW game I get between D+ and C+ rated tag matches from my teams and no one has great chemistry I use mostly lower card guys who have no more that a D+ in overness in my region and only one of the teams have both members with over a C Psychology. And two teams have no members with over a C Psychology. On the other side I've thrown Random Main Eventers together Steve Flash and Ultimate Phoenix over Plague and El Demonio and I got a B+ tag match and between them fighting singles with each other they range between B- and A* matches. So in closing it seems very possible to get good ratings out of tag team matches I suppose it depends on chemistry, Promotion product, worker overness and worker skill.

[eayragt]

I'll have to disagree with much of this: [QUOTE]when was the last time Shawn Michaels had a poor match with any main event / upper card wrestler?[/QUOTE] Maybe he doesn't have poor chemistry with any Main Event / Upper Midcarders. Maybe the bookers know who he has poor chemistry with, so doesn't book him against the. However, poor chemistry doesn't ruin matches. Two good wrestlers with complementing skills can still pull out an A* match with poor chemistry. [QUOTE]I just had a Top wrestler have to C+ matches in row against two different main eventers because he does not have chemistry.[/QUOTE] I'd say unlucky. But it happens. I can't quote a real life example, but I remember a WWE Main Eventer having a dreadful match with a midcarder (sorry i can't be more specific) a few years ago, and thinking to myself that this was a real case of the two having no chemistry. You've had it twice in a row - that's unlucky. Time to move on. [QUOTE]If the WWE had a main event match for a PPV ruined and the wrestlers involved claimed the reason they for this was chemistry or lack thereof, they would end up in TNA quicker than Vince could say “Your Fired”.[/QUOTE] Of course, this would never happen as they'd have faced one another half a dozen times in house shows, and WWE wouldn't have made the match. [QUOTE]This does not make any difference in the current TEW game as the match rating remains 4 points lower tan normal.[/QUOTE] 4 points lower? I'm going to question that - is that really the case? I've never heard Adam say what the poor chemistry deduction is (all we know is that there are different levels), so don't know if you may just be jumping to conclusions here. Sure, it may be 4 points (I'm guessing you're meaning grades) for the worst possible chemistry, but I have no prove of that - do you? [QUOTE]Since the opinions on this forum appear to be split down the middle with this issue,[/QUOTE] They do? I really must have missed those chats. Sorry to start being sarcastic, but I think that the further along your post goes, the more shaky gorund your "facts" seem to be on. [QUOTE]1: Why does it take 5 or more house shows to get a report back on chemistry between workers, when a road agent can tell you after one televised or for that matter dark match on the sows you book yourself.[/QUOTE] Don't know. Perhaps you Road Agents don't go to all the house shows. Perhaps it's so you don't know all your chemistry ratings after a month of house shows (which no promotion is able to do), to make the game a little more unpredictable, or, dare I say, realistic? [QUOTE]2: Why do tag match rating seem to have some kind of immediate penalty insuring you never get an A+ rating no matter how over the wrestlers are and how over the storyline is.[/QUOTE] I've seen many people complain that their Tag matches don't get the ratings that they think they should. I personally have never seen it, and have been very pleased with my tag results from my Main Event, so I cannot help here. EDIT: I, like everyone else, have had Main Events ruined by poor chemistry. But, like Akki says, I've had matches turn out a lot better than expected due to chemistry. Good old swings and roundabouts.

[Akki]

It's funny how some people get so mad and even "outraged" at chemistry when their good workers have bad chemistry with each other, but then when two mediocre workers put on a great match due to chemistry, they don't talk about the feature being unrealistic. Hypocrites. It's a game, and with all the intangibles that actually DO go into making a match good or bad in real life, this game does a pretty good job at simulating most, if not all, of them.

[Irish Wolf]

OK I lied lets talk about chemistry I'm going to quote some excerpts of your argumetns and touch on them. [QUOTE=cps_1900;388010]It seems to just affect any wrestler at random regardless of how good there stats are and how experienced they are. An example would be that you could book HBK v Kurt Angle and end up with a match rating 4 points lower than normal because of chemistry.[/QUOTE] Chemistry should have nothing to do with stats and experience chemistry is that certain something that happens between two people when they get together. It isn't their skill its an innate connection that allows them to work well together. It happens with actors all the time. Secondly are you saying 4 points lower than normal because of bad chemistry or with standard chemistry it is 4 points lower than normal. If it's the latter then your just basing your idea of what is normal on how you see them as workers not how the mod makers made the mod and how the stats they used interact with the game engine. [QUOTE=cps_1900;388010]Even ignoring that fact that Kurt and HBK have really good chemistry in real life[/QUOTE] How do you know they have good chemistry in real life have you spoken to either of them. You can get two good workers put on a great match but not have a natural chemistry between them. For all we know they actually have a hard time reading each other and have bad chemistry but they are both such consummate athletes that they can work around it. [QUOTE=cps_1900;388010]Chemistry should not affect the wrestlers with really top stats because is doesn’t in real life.[/QUOTE] Again how to you know this is there proof that two guys with horrible chemistry won't put on a match that isn't pleasing to the crowd. It's especially hard to tell because sometimes the WWE crowd will just boo you if they hate you and them some times they'll make you think a match between two subpar athletes is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Because none of us know who actually does and does not have "chemistry" in the real world we don't if this is "realistic" or not. [QUOTE=cps_1900;388010]I just had a Top wrestler have to C+ matches in row against two different main eventers because he does not have chemistry.[/QUOTE] In my CZCW Ultimate Phoenix and Steve Flash got an A match Bulldozer Brandon Smith and Steve Flash got an A match. But with poor chemistry (in performance the worst kind) and I still got a B match out of Phoenix vs Smith. Again I think this comes down to promotion product and certain workers. [QUOTE=cps_1900;388010]Since the opinions on this forum appear to be split down the middle with this issue, and since its unlikely chemistry can be tweaked to work accurately to everyone’s preference could it not be made optional or editable so everyone can be happy? [/QUOTE] I've seen a person or two mostly new people but not a full blown split down the middle of the userbase discussion about the "issue" with chemistry. As it stands it's one of the vital parts of the game that makes it replayable. If you got the same chemistry notes all the time it would just be easy enough to always hire the people who had good chemistry with each other. Sure maybe he can make it optional but I think it would take away from the game as a whole and as for editable I can just see all the arguments over the real world data sets as to who truly is and isn't compatible.

[sabataged]

I get A* matches all the time where the workers have bad chemistry. As long as the workers are good enough, they will still produce. As for the tag matches, I have no idea what your talking about. My tag matches are generally some of my better rated matches. Ya if you put 3 lower mids or openers in a match of course it will not be as good as 4 upper mids.

[chris caulfield]

[QUOTE]2: Why do tag match rating seem to have some kind of immediate penalty insuring you never get an A+ rating no matter how over the wrestlers are and how over the storyline is.[/QUOTE] All anyone has to do to prove this wrong is to read Tigerkinney's BHOTWG diary as he constantly gets A* matches with tag matches.

[D-Lyrium]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388010]An example would be that you could book HBK v Kurt Angle and end up with a match rating 4 points lower than normal because of chemistry. Even ignoring that fact that Kurt and HBK have really good chemistry in real life, when was the last time Shawn Michaels had a poor match with any main event / upper card wrestler?[/quote] You seem to be rather confused. So what if Angle and HBK "only" get an A instead of an A* due to chemistry issues? It's still a bloody A! It's still probably going to be one of the top ten matches of the year. Everyone makes such a fuss over chemistry. There's really no need. Negative chemistry very rarely makes a huge difference. I could understand if it made an otherwise A* match sink to B- or C+, but the one or (rarely) two grade shift it causes is hardly enough to cry about. It'd be boring as all hell if you could run Angle vs. HBK in every game and get a guaranteed A* match out of them whenever you wanted. The disadvantages are far, far outweighed the positives, the two midcarders who have such great chemistry that they push each other up to super stardom with their awesome feud, or the random dark match tag-team that end up being legendary as a duo. [QUOTE]Two other minor points I want to make. 1: Why does it take 5 or more house shows to get a report back on chemistry between workers, when a road agent can tell you after one televised or for that matter dark match on the sows you book yourself.[/QUOTE] You have a point there, I'll admit. It doesn't seem to make sense that it takes five house shows to find out the same info as one human-booked match. However, in reality house show schedules are probably pre-booked a while ahead of time. I doubt Vince would say "I wanna see how this guy looks against this guy", and have it happen the next day. That weeks house show schedule (maybe even that month's) would already be decided, to allow workers time to schedule flights, and arrange social lives around their schedule, prepare for certain events, etc. So you'd have to wait until it was possible to schedule the match, or until it's coincidentally already going to happen. Besides, why would you have a main event level, competitive match in the dark? Realistically, you'd *have* to use a house show, or just run with it anyway and hope it was good. So it shouldn't matter :p [quote]2: Why do tag match rating seem to have some kind of immediate penalty insuring you never get an A+ rating no matter how over the wrestlers are and how over the storyline is.[/QUOTE] Everyone seems to have a problem with tag team matches, but I never have. I've never had a tag match that's noticeably less highly rated than the two singles matches would've been (i.e., The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge and Christian isn't noticeably worse than Matt vs. Edge and Jeff vs. Christian would've been), in fact sometimes they're better due to tag experience and chemistry. So yeah, no comment on that one.

[cyberkitten01]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388010]1: Why does it take 5 or more house shows to get a report back on chemistry between workers, when a road agent can tell you after one televised or for that matter dark match on the sows you book yourself.[/QUOTE] I'd say it's a risk vs reward thing. Using the 1999 era as an example, with a house show you could put Austin vs The Rock against each other to see what their chemistry is like and after a few weeks you find they have terrible chemistry. If you couldn't be bothered waiting, you could have put these two megastars who'd never fought each other before in the main event of Wrestlemania and THEN discover they have terrible chemistry, and what could have been A* may be something lower. So in conclusion, the house show route is called playing it safe, but as you noted with dark matches and road agent notes there's nothing stopping you from discovering chemistry when you don't plan for it

[Akki]

Maybe the thing with house shows is that they're not recorded at all, while TV and events are taped for TV, PPV, DVD, VHS, or the Internet, so the road agents can look back to see how the chemistry was.

[cps_1908]

[QUOTE] Maybe he doesn't have poor chemistry with any Main Event / Upper Midcarders. Maybe the bookers know who he has poor chemistry with, so doesn't book him against the. [/QUOTE] HBK has wrestled just about everybody on Raw and HBK was just an example of one of the many top wrestlers over the years who can wrestle a good match with any other top wrestler regardless of chemistry. The point I was making is that if a wrestler is skilled and experienced enough then chemistry on its own will not ruin a match. [QUOTE] However, poor chemistry doesn't ruin matches. Two good wrestlers with complementing skills can still pull out an A* match with poor chemistry. [/QUOTE] In TEW you most definitely cannot. I have had many matches with A* storylines and A* as a hype rating, involving top rated wrestlers, HBK, Kurt Angle etc that would normally get an A* rating come back with a B rating where the only note and only possible cause is poor chemistry. A couple of months ago after a particularly irretating run of poor matches due to chemistry I tested this, I made a copy of an existing game and upped the states of wrestlers that I know have poor chemistry in that game. I created storyline pitting then against each other and ran various angle, triple threat matches etc. When I had all three storylines up to A* and the momentum of the wrestlers to A* or A, I booked the matches as the main events of each TV show. Each of three matches sans chemistry would have got A* but the results were B's all round. [QUOTE] I just had a Top wrestler have to C+ matches in row against two different main eventers because he does not have chemistry. I'd say unlucky. But it happens. I can't quote a real life example, but I remember a WWE Main Eventer having a dreadful match with a midcarder (sorry i can't be more specific) a few years ago, and thinking to myself that this was a real case of the two having no chemistry. You've had it twice in a row - that's unlucky. Time to move on. [/QUOTE] That’s my point. Main Eventer with a midcarder. I was talking about Main Event v Main Event. Both matches I got C* ratings in featured main event v main event. Jeff hardy v Orton & Jeff Hardy v Edge. A mid carder having a poor match with a main eventer could be down to a lot of things and not just chemistry. The main eventer may not have the ability to compensate for this. Remember this is the WWE you’re talking about. In the past three years Mark Henry, Great Khali, JBL, Batista and more have all main evented WWE. I was referring to wrestlers with very high stats. HBK, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrro. When these guys were in there prime they could have good matches with anybody regardless of chemistry. [QUOTE] If the WWE had a main event match for a PPV ruined and the wrestlers involved claimed the reason they for this was chemistry or lack thereof, they would end up in TNA quicker than Vince could say “Your Fired”. Of course, this would never happen as they'd have faced one another half a dozen times in house shows, and WWE wouldn't have made the match. [/QUOTE] WWE have had many PPV main events that were poor. Batista v JBL (GAB), Cena v JBL (Wrestlemania). Angle v Mark Henry (Royal Rumble). These were down to poor ability of one and in some cases both wrestlers and if chemistry did play a factor it would because the wrestlers did not have skill to compensate for this. (In Kurt's defence, nobody can compensate for wrestling Mark Henry) The point I was making was that if Vince planned for two top talented wresters to Main event a big PPV and they wrestled a match or matches at house shows and they were terrible and there reason for this was poor chemistry with each other, and bear in mind I am talking wrestlers like HBK, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart etc at there best, do you honestly think Vince would except that. I guarantee you he would not. Have you ever on any of the wrestling news sites, magazines, etc ever read, heard a report of a Match / Storyline being scrapped because two wrestlers don't have chemistry. I've been watching wrestling for twenty years and I haven’t. I read of plans changing for failed pushes, injuries, poor ratings and wrestlers falling out, fighting back stage but never because they don't have chemistry. [QUOTE] This does not make any difference in the current TEW game as the match rating remains 4 points lower tan normal. 4 points lower? I'm going to question that - is that really the case? I've never heard Adam say what the poor chemistry deduction is (all we know is that there are different levels), so don't know if you may just be jumping to conclusions here. Sure, it may be 4 points (I'm guessing you're meaning grades) for the worst possible chemistry, but I have no prove of that - do you? [/QUOTE] The highest rating I have ever had for a match with poor chemistry is B. These matches were matches I was expecting A* for. When I was expecting an A I generally get a C* so may vary between 3 and 4 but it does not change the fact that I still think is overly high, gimmick matches or not. I have played every EWR / TEW game so I know the factors that can affect matches and so I know that chemistry is the cause. Quote: Since the opinions on this forum appear to be split down the middle with this issue, [QUOTE] They do? I really must have missed those chats. Sorry to start being sarcastic, but I think that the further along your post goes, the more shaky gorund your "facts" seem to be on. [/QUOTE] I have read many topics in these forums with complaints, points, issues and moans about chemistry. There was a topic named chemistry about three weeks ago and in the main thread on this very topic the issue of chemistry was brought up. I know because I after I read it I posted myself. Every time this comes up you get roughly 50% backing Adam and 50% asking for changes to the current setup. The point I was making is that this comes up quite regularly, you can tell this by the fact tat when every a topic comes up about chemistry the thread starter usually apologises for bringing it up again like I did. The other point I was trying to make was that this issue could end up being a deciding factor on whether or not some of us purchase the new game. I read this forum every day to check the new features and with each one announced I get more excited about the new game, but then I play the existing game and the chemistry issue comes up and I find myself debating whether I want to spend £25 to get the new game its going to be the same. I can go 4/5 hrs at a time on football manager but never more that 45 minutes on tew because that’s the most I go without chemistry showing up. For me it breaks my ability to immerse myself in it. [QUOTE] 1: Why does it take 5 or more house shows to get a report back on chemistry between workers, when a road agent can tell you after one televised or for that matter dark match on the sows you book yourself. Don't know. Perhaps you Road Agents don't go to all the house shows. Perhaps it's so you don't know all your chemistry ratings after a month of house shows (which no promotion is able to do), to make the game a little more unpredictable, or, dare I say, realistic? [/QUOTE] Since we cannot book matches at house shows our selves, our only option is too request information from road agents. I would assume If I request a road agent to do a chemistry report on two workers that he or whoever is booking the show would based on that request book said wrestlers against each other. I would also expect said road agent to be at the event or pass the assignment on to someone who is there, and since one televised or dark match is enough for a road agent to give me an accurate chemistry rating I would expect one house show match to do the same. Bear in mind that we play the role of head booker or owner so if request something you would expect you staff member to do so as fast as possible. And since we know from booking ourselves that this can be gleamed based on one match why should we have to wait for 5. [QUOTE] EDIT: I, like everyone else, have had Main Events ruined by poor chemistry. But, like Akki says, I've had matches turn out a lot better than expected due to chemistry. Good old swings and roundabouts. [/QUOTE] I agree that some matches turn out better because of good chemistry but that does not change the fact this game is supposed to accurately simulate wrestling and it does not. In my current game, I have Undertaker with poor chemistry with Brock Lesner, Jeff hardy with Chris Jericho, Randy Orton and Rick Flair, HBK with Edge, John Cena with HHH. Jeff Hardy is one poor chemistry note away from having poor chemistry with half my Raw Main Eventers. This would never realistically occur in real life.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388080]HBK has wrestled just about everybody on Raw and HBK was just an example of one of the many top wrestlers over the years who can wrestle a good match with any other top wrestler regardless of chemistry. The point I was making is that if a wrestler is skilled and experienced enough then chemistry on its own will not ruin a match. [/QUOTE] Davis Wayne Newton vs. British Samurai with poor chemistry in my game four years in. Match rating: A. UK Dragon vs. British Samurai with no chemistry note in either direction in my game four years in, Dragon's stats being close to identical to Davis' at this point. Match rating: A. Wow, massive difference. Seriously, dude. Good workers overcome bad chemistry, and that's why HBK pulls out great matches. Don't worry about it. Some folks just click together first time in the ring, and some folks have to struggle to get on the same page. If they're talented they succeed in that struggle. [i]That's all chemistry is[/i]. And yes, HBK has great matches with everyone, but he has better matches with some folk than others - and some of that is *their* skill, and some is chemistry.

[Irish Wolf]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388080]I have read many topics in these forums with complaints, points, issues and moans about chemistry.[/QUOTE] All of the topics I have read with complaints on chemistry are always people who play the real world mods complaining that two people they believe to have great chemistry get bad chemistry and it's totally unrealistic because some how they know that these two people have a chemistry in the ring. These are the same people who ask for chemistry to be editable which I suppose is fine, but in the real world chemistry is random. You never know whose going to have it with whom and that's all part of the fun. [QUOTE=cps_1900;388080]Quote: [QUOTE]However, poor chemistry doesn't ruin matches. Two good wrestlers with complementing skills can still pull out an A* match with poor chemistry.[/QUOTE] In TEW you most definitely cannot.[/QUOTE] You can I've seen it happen. Dan Stone Jr vs Jeremy Stone with bad chemistry in performance not just awkward bout A* match. I'm pretty sure some people who've played any of the big national C-Verse feds like BHOTWG and TCW have seen it as well.

[cps_1908]

D-Lyrium [QUOTE] You seem to be rather confused. So what if Angle and HBK "only" get an A instead of an A* due to chemistry issues? It's still a bloody A! It's still probably going to be one of the top ten matches of the year. Everyone makes such a fuss over chemistry. There's really no need. Negative chemistry very rarely makes a huge difference. I could understand if it made an otherwise A* match sink to B- or C+, but the one or (rarely) two grade shift it causes is hardly enough to cry about. It'd be boring as all hell if you could run Angle vs. HBK in every game and get a guaranteed A* match out of them whenever you wanted. The disadvantages are far, far outweighed the positives, the two midcarders who have such great chemistry that they push each other up to super stardom with their awesome feud, or the random dark match tag-team that end up being legendary as a duo. [/QUOTE] I did not say I got an A instead of an A*. I said I got a B instead of an A*. Apupunchau@optonline [QUOTE] Chemistry should have nothing to do with stats and experience chemistry is that certain something that happens between two people when they get together. It isn't their skill its an innate connection that allows them to work well together. It happens with actors all the time. Secondly are you saying 4 points lower than normal because of bad chemistry or with standard chemistry it is 4 points lower than normal. If it's the latter then your just basing your idea of what is normal on how you see them as workers not how the mod makers made the mod and how the stats they used interact with the game engine. [/QUOTE] With my current database I created various games. I can setup a storyline with two wrestlers. get the storyline and there moment up to A* and book the matches. In 4 out of 5 matches it produces A* and in 1 match it produces B because of chemistry. [QUOTE] How do you know they have good chemistry in real life have you spoken to either of them. You can get two good workers put on a great match but not have a natural chemistry between them. For all we know they actually have a hard time reading each other and have bad chemistry but they are both such consummate athletes that they can work around it. [/QUOTE] I meant that each time they wrestled each other there produced really good matches. So just in the way people say Rock & Austin have good chemistry because of there history of good matches with each other you could say the same about Kurt and HBK. Remembering that the matches Rock and Austin had together has much more and much better build up that two of the three HBK Angle matches. I would agree though that Angle, HBK was just my opinion. In any case I would point to that as something that shows that chemistry is a matter of personnel preference. I would question this point though I did say in my oriignal post (ignoring the fact) so I do not really see the relevance in highlighting this. [QUOTE] For all we know they actually have a hard time reading each other and have bad chemistry but they are both such consummate athletes that they can work around it. [/QUOTE] My point exactly. Even If wrestlers in the game have stats that would equate to consummate atheletes capable of working round poor chemistry the match rating still get affected the same way regardless of it being Ric Flair ( in his prime) v Bret Hart (in his prime) or headbanger thrasher v the red rooster. [QUOTE] In my CZCW Ultimate Phoenix and Steve Flash got an A match Bulldozer Brandon Smith and Steve Flash got an A match. But with poor chemistry (in performance the worst kind) and I still got a B match out of Phoenix vs Smith. Again I think this comes down to promotion product and certain workers. [/QUOTE] I disagree with this because I get the same penalty regardless of it being Jeff Hardy v Rany Orton in WWE or Christian v Kurt Angle in TNA.

[cps_1908]

[QUOTE]Seriously, dude. Good workers overcome bad chemistry, and that's why HBK pulls out great matches. Don't worry about it. Some folks just click together first time in the ring, and some folks have to struggle to get on the same page. If they're talented they succeed in that struggle. That's all chemistry is. And yes, HBK has great matches with everyone, but he has better matches with some folk than others - and some of that is *their* skill, and some is chemistry. [/QUOTE] The point being that he has good matches everyone but TEW does not reflect that. A wrestler can have as high as you like and if he has bad chemistry with his opponent he will still get penalised the same as any other wrestler. Some of the more talented wrestlers are good enough to work around or compensate for poor chemistry and tew does not reflect this.

[cps_1908]

[QUOTE] You can I've seen it happen. Dan Stone Jr vs Jeremy Stone with bad chemistry in performance not just awkward bout A* match. I'm pretty sure some people who've played any of the big national C-Verse feds like BHOTWG and TCW have seen it as well. [/QUOTE] Even if this does happen once in a while an I have never seen it, it should not be a rare occurance. As I stated I have tried bumping up states to a ridiculous level and I still get a minimum of a three point match rating penalty. Now that I thin k about there was one exception when I got an A rating but that was one match in all the time I have played TEW 07 since its release.

[Irish Wolf]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388096]With my current database I created various games. I can setup a storyline with two wrestlers. get the storyline and there moment up to A* and book the matches. In 4 out of 5 matches it produces A* and in 1 match it produces B because of chemistry.[/QUOTE] So wait in 4 matches between 2 people you got A* matches and then one match got you a B. Um they had the same bad chemistry in the first four matches so getting the B is a problem on a whole other level [QUOTE=cps_1900;388096]I meant that each time they wrestled each other there produced really good matches. So just in the way people say Rock & Austin have good chemistry because of there history of good matches with each other you could say the same about Kurt and HBK. Remembering that the matches Rock and Austin had together has much more and much better build up that two of the three HBK Angle matches. I would agree though that Angle, HBK was just my opinion. In any case I would point to that as something that shows that chemistry is a matter of personnel preference. I would question this point though I did say in my oriignal post (ignoring the fact) so I do not really see the relevance in highlighting this.[/QUOTE] I'm people and I don't say rock and Austin have good matches therefore the have good chemistry. The Rock Austin matches were about good build up to the matches and then they put on good matches. It's a mix of story heat and talent that make the Rock vs Austin matches memorable. Chemistry is not a matter of personal preference chemistry is a matter of two workers clicking and as a booker you would have to deal with it when it was bad just as when it was good. If you want editable chemistry fine but why would you want to play the same game over and over and over each time with the guys having the chemistry that you picked. It's the challenge of the game that chemistry is random every time. And remember it's not totally random Adam has stated that there is a sliding bar where at least style (although he may have said personality and skill) change the percentages of getting good or bad chemistry. [QUOTE=cps_1900;388096]My point exactly. Even If wrestlers in the game have stats that would equate to consummate atheletes capable of working round poor chemistry the match rating still get affected the same way regardless of it being Ric Flair ( in his prime) v Bret Hart (in his prime) or headbanger thrasher v the red rooster.[/QUOTE] And people have pointed out instances were workers who you would think would put on A* matches were still putting on A* or at least A matches. So it didn't happen for Kurt and HBK but that could be said to about that stats they were given not just chemistry. [QUOTE=cps_1900;388096]I disagree with this because I get the same penalty regardless of it being Jeff Hardy v Rany Orton in WWE or Christian v Kurt Angle in TNA.[/QUOTE] Yes and the product is different for TNA and WWE is are the styles and overness of all the competitors involved so in reality you can't tell why you are getting the penalty.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388100]The point being that he has good matches everyone but TEW does not reflect that. A wrestler can have as high as you like and if he has bad chemistry with his opponent he will still get penalised the same as any other wrestler. [/QUOTE] Peas and rice... Yes, he will. He will get penalised [i]exactly the same amount[/i]. Let's say you've got Crappy Wrestler A and Crappy Wrestler B. If they had no chemistry issues, they'd get a 40% match. Because they have bad chemistry, they get a 36% match - only nine-tenths as good as they're capable of. Then you have Godly Worker A and Godly Worker B. If they had no chemistry issues, they'd get a 98% match. Because they have bad chemistry they get a 94% match - the same amount matters far less because they're more capable. In short, [i]their skills allow them to overcome their natural issues in communicating in the ring[/i] far better than Crappy A and Crappy B. Or to put it another way - the better a wrestler is, the less chemistry matters. Or, to use your words [quote]Some of the more talented wrestlers are good enough to work around or compensate for poor chemistry[/quote] It matters less for them, because the match is so damn good. Put another way - your example of good chemistry (in the game of TEW currently being played as the real world) HBK vs. Angle. You can 'tell' they have good chemistry. Clearly chemistry matters, therefore. OK, so chemistry is something that has a clear effect at high levels as well as low. But it matters less to HBK and Angle than it does to Joe Schmoe and Frankie Q. Public, two weaker wrestlers with good chemistry. See, Joe and Frankie have good chemistry. They don't blow spots with each other, their timings are crisp, and they make each other look good. Angle and HBK don't blow many spots anyway, their timings are crisp anyway, and they make each other look good anyway - so proportionately, the bonus they get for good chemistry matters less. Clear?

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388106]Even if this does happen once in a while an I have never seen it, it should not be a rare occurance. [/QUOTE] Yes it should. A*s are supposed to be a rare occurrence. So sayeth the game's designer.

[Akki]

First off, as many have said, chemistry IRL is extremely subjective. The game just tries to put it in easy perspective. Second, it's possible that in real life HBK has good or norma chemistry with everyone, and no bad chemistry. It's quite possible. Also, in the game, there are multiple levels of bad chemistry. You seem to have an awful lot of bad luck, or you're just hung up on one or two matches, as the only ones you have actually described in detail seem to suffer from pretty horrible chemistry. Also, are the stats you pushed to "ridiculous levels" performance stats, because those can affect a match a huge amount. Two guys with bad performance and bad chemistry will probably put on a pretty horrible match, but with good performance, bad chemistry can mean a lot less.

[cps_1908]

[QUOTE] So wait in 4 matches between 2 people you got A* matches and then one match got you a B. Um they had the same bad chemistry in the first four matches so getting the B is a problem on a whole other level [/QUOTE] Thats not what I said. I had 5 Matches in 5 different games. 5 becuase it was the fifth one they had bad chemistry. on the four games without the bad chemistry I got A* and on the fifth I got B. This was chemisty becuase it was the only one that had bad chemistry between them. And before you say it. I don't expect to get exactly the same rating each time, I just think high rated wrestlers who are capabble of producing A* matches shoudl not be penalised taht hard for poor chemistry and they clearly have trhe ability to work round or compensate for this. If the 5 matches had given various rating from A* to A to B* etc I would be quite happy but to drop down to a B is too much.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=Akki;388118] Also, are the stats you pushed to "ridiculous levels" performance stats, because those can affect a match a huge amount. Two guys with bad performance and bad chemistry will probably put on a pretty horrible match, but with good performance, bad chemistry can mean a lot less.[/QUOTE] Yup. My second ever A* was bad chemistry, but really solid performance stats are mandatory for main eventers in my ROF game.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388125]Thats not what I said. I had 5 Matches in 5 different games. 5 becuase it was the fifth one they had bad chemistry. on the four games without the bad chemistry I got A* and on the fifth I got B. This was chemisty becuase it was the only one that had bad chemistry between them. And before you say it. I don't expect to get exactly the same rating each time, I just think high rated wrestlers who are capabble of producing A* matches shoudl not be penalised taht hard for poor chemistry and they clearly have trhe ability to work round or compensate for this. If the 5 matches had given various rating from A* to A to B* etc I would be quite happy but to drop down to a B is too much.[/QUOTE] I think you might be underestimating the power of really really bad chemistry. Maybe you haven't seen two workers that have had it, but when they do, it's makes for a bad match. Once again, I say that you're just hanging on the results of one match, and while some experimentation is good, you seem to want to complain about it more than learn the lesson. Which two workers were they, anyway? Just out of curiosity. And you also seem way too hung up on what your opinion of chemistry vs skills is that you're totally unwilling to look at it from any other point of view.

[cps_1908]

[QUOTE] Peas and rice... Yes, he will. He will get penalised exactly the same amount. Let's say you've got Crappy Wrestler A and Crappy Wrestler B. If they had no chemistry issues, they'd get a 40% match. Because they have bad chemistry, they get a 36% match - only nine-tenths as good as they're capable of. Then you have Godly Worker A and Godly Worker B. If they had no chemistry issues, they'd get a 98% match. Because they have bad chemistry they get a 94% match - the same amount matters far less because they're more capable. In short, their skills allow them to overcome their natural issues in communicating in the ring far better than Crappy A and Crappy B. Or to put it another way - the better a wrestler is, the less chemistry matters. [/QUOTE] Thats not what happens though. regardelss of the wrestlers involved it always drop 3 to 4 ratings. The drop should be far less severe for godly wrestlers to use your term. Yes it should. A*s are supposed to be a rare occurrence. So sayeth the game's designer. i did not say A* should not be rare. I was reply to your example of having a match with bad chemisty and still getting an A. I have seen that once in all the times I have played the game. A good rating with bad chemisty should happen more ofton as it is not rare for top wrestlers to be able to work around bad chemistry.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=cps_1900;388140]Thats not what happens though. regardelss of the wrestlers involved it always drop 3 to 4 ratings. The drop should be far less severe for godly wrestlers to use your term. [/QUOTE] Absolutely. So. The top rating is A*. Directly below it is A. I've had godly wrestlers with bad chemistry get As. And A*s, come to that. What the hell rating are you claiming I should have got? Gamma minus?