Road Agent Advice on Turns

[Hurrikane]

Something that I've thought about, that I think would be extremely useful is a feature for Road Agent's to advice the player on heel and face turns. In real life we see quite frequently, a situation where a worker is gaining momentum as a heel but the momentum is actually caused by fans liking the worker and looking for him to turn babyface. So maybe if we were to get notes during matches or segments where the road agent tells us that 'Worker A was getting cheered' throughout this segment, or vice versa where a babyface was getting booed (I know this features to a minimal degree in 07', but that's more to do with ring work). Another suggestion I have is 'Turn Momentum'. Basically, you would select a wrestler for a turn, and then to get the best effect, you would have to raise the momentum bar throughout the weeks so that when you do pull the trigger, it has a greater effect. if you were to turn a worker without any buildup, then it wouldn't have as much of an effect as it could have, because the player hadn't built up a decent enough storyline for it to work. That may be difficult to program, but I think it would work really well.

[Rams]

[QUOTE=Hurrikane;400088]Something that I've thought about, that I think would be extremely useful is a feature for Road Agent's to advice the player on heel and face turns. In real life we see quite frequently, a situation where a worker is gaining momentum as a heel but the momentum is actually caused by fans liking the worker and looking for him to turn babyface. So maybe if we were to get notes during matches or segments where the road agent tells us that 'Worker A was getting cheered' throughout this segment, or vice versa where a babyface was getting booed (I know this features to a minimal degree in 07', but that's more to do with ring work). Another suggestion I have is 'Turn Momentum'. Basically, you would select a wrestler for a turn, and then to get the best effect, you would have to raise the momentum bar throughout the weeks so that when you do pull the trigger, it has a greater effect. if you were to turn a worker without any buildup, then it wouldn't have as much of an effect as it could have, because the player hadn't built up a decent enough storyline for it to work. That may be difficult to program, but I think it would work really well.[/QUOTE] We have had a lengthy talk about your first suggestion ([url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30621[/url]) and I agree that it would be good to know what reaction a worker is receiving. In real life the crowds don't always play by the rules a booker sets and will boo or cheer someone they aren't suppose to. As a booker it's then up to you to listen to the crowds and take a chance on a turn or stay the course and see what happens. I like the turn momentum suggestion I'm just not sure how you would go about doing that.

[Lita Maivia]

The momentum bar is a neat idea but not very practical for every situation. Not every turn has a build-up. Sometimes a surprise turn out of no where is just as great as a built-up turn.

[Hurrikane]

[QUOTE=Lita Maivia;400394]The momentum bar is a neat idea but not very practical for every situation. Not every turn has a build-up. Sometimes a surprise turn out of no where is just as great as a built-up turn.[/QUOTE] But that could be part of the feature, that sometimes a surprise turn can work really well, but for the most part you're better to build up the momentum. And the momentum can suffer if you leave it too long to turn someone too.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Hurrikane;400654]But that could be part of the feature, that sometimes a surprise turn can work really well, but for the most part you're better to build up the momentum. And the momentum can suffer if you leave it too long to turn someone too.[/QUOTE] So in other words, instead of leaving it up to the booker to do a turn from a booking standpoint (as it is now), you want a quick fix, no strategy needed, just add water (or fill the bar, as it were) and presto! Successful turn? I don't like it. I'm a control freak. I want to be able to do things my way, with no color by numbers "guaranteed" method. That "but for the most part" part is chilling. I can pull off 'complete success' turns at the drop of a hat, because I learned how to do so. Taking that knowledge and making it useless because of a bar, isn't something I'd be for. This would be an underhanded penalty to those folks who know how to book turns successfully, just to benefit those who don't.

[Hurrikane]

[QUOTE=Remianen;400894]So in other words, instead of leaving it up to the booker to do a turn from a booking standpoint (as it is now), you want a quick fix, no strategy needed, just add water (or fill the bar, as it were) and presto! Successful turn? I don't like it. I'm a control freak. I want to be able to do things my way, with no color by numbers "guaranteed" method. That "but for the most part" part is chilling. I can pull off 'complete success' turns at the drop of a hat, because I learned how to do so. Taking that knowledge and making it useless because of a bar, isn't something I'd be for. This would be an underhanded penalty to those folks who know how to book turns successfully, just to benefit those who don't.[/QUOTE] I don't know where to start, you've completely missed my point. I'm not suggesting that the bar would fill up regardless of whether the booking was good or not. Instead, you would be rewarded for booking good angles, via increased momentum for that person turning (for a real life example, see Batista's turning on HHH). The current system that determines the success of turning a wrestler seems slightly random, unless you'd turned a wrestler repeatedly, in which case it would be a guaranteed fail.

[MisterSocko]

[QUOTE=Hurrikane;400088]In real life we see quite frequently, a situation where a worker is gaining momentum as a heel but the momentum is actually caused by fans liking the worker and looking for him to turn babyface.[/QUOTE] As a side note, when fans like a character and cheer for him, it doesn't necessarily means they really want him to turn face. They love the gimmick and the way he plays it, but having a guy with a cool heel gimmick turn face can sometimes be a really big mistake. Think of Doink the clown. People liked Doink when he was evil and creepy. So the bookers thought "Well, they love him, so he'll turn face and they'll love him even better!" But Doink as a kid-friendly, goofy clown with silly midget sidekicks failed big time and eventually got loud "Kill the clown!" chants. People liked Doink as a heel character, but they obviously didn't want him to turn face.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Hurrikane;401392]The current system that determines the success of turning a wrestler seems slightly random, unless you'd turned a wrestler repeatedly, in which case it would be a guaranteed fail.[/QUOTE] It's not random at all. It's common sense, really. As I said, I can turn a worker in 'complete success' fashion at will. Even if it's been a short time since their last turn (because in that instance, I take them offscreen for a while before turning them again or let them stew in their stale state before taking them offscreen), I can do it. And I don't even PLAY SE promotions (cutting edge type is the closest I get). It's even easier with promotions based around these things. No offense intended, but this sounds like a feature that would go great with the 'simplified' version that's been suggested before. That is, TEW would have a few play modes, one of which is 'simplified' where letter grades are replaced with numbers, angles come in very broad categories (i.e. brawl, turn, attack, hype), and things like that. Adding a bar indicating a worker's turn process progression would fit that, I believe.

[Hurrikane]

[QUOTE=Remianen;402850]It's not random at all. It's common sense, really. As I said, I can turn a worker in 'complete success' fashion at will. Even if it's been a short time since their last turn (because in that instance, I take them offscreen for a while before turning them again or let them stew in their stale state before taking them offscreen), I can do it. And I don't even PLAY SE promotions (cutting edge type is the closest I get). It's even easier with promotions based around these things. No offense intended, but this sounds like a feature that would go great with the 'simplified' version that's been suggested before. That is, TEW would have a few play modes, one of which is 'simplified' where letter grades are replaced with numbers, angles come in very broad categories (i.e. brawl, turn, attack, hype), and things like that. Adding a bar indicating a worker's turn process progression would fit that, I believe.[/QUOTE] I'm not quite sure that your idea of what I'm proposing is similar to what I'm thinking, and that may lie in the way I'm presenting. Here's an example of how I see the current system in the game. So Wrestler A and Wrestler B (Let's say London and Kendrick actually) are tag partners. I set London to turn and begin a storyline with the two. I could then have lots of subtle teases of a London turn in the next month or so before pulling the trigger. The turn is deemed a 'reasonable success' and that's fine. Right now, the success of the turn really depends on that one angle where the worker turns. In reality however, I think (And Batista-HHH is arguably the best example), it's the buildup that really contributes to how successful a turn angle is. So the system I was proposing would reward a player with turn momentum if they're booking good angles to support the buildup of a turn, whereas if the angles aren't good then turn momentum either isn't gained or it is lost. It can be a flexible system where momentum can be lost if you turn the worker too quickly, or too late. And there can also be the case where you turn a worker without any build. The success of that angle could be based on lots of different factors, though mainly the worker's stats and ability to play face/heel (depending on how you've turned them). I don't see how that's more simple than the current system. And congratulations on being able to book successful turn angles whenever you please, I too have booked many, only it's not relevant as to why I'm suggesting a new system.

[crayon]

If I'm reading it correctly, where Remiane is seeing it as simplifying matters is that it'd effectively tell you the optimum time to pull the trigger on that turn angle (ie. when the bar is full), as opposed to you feeling it out. Which is true in a way, but then I start thinking that in reality a creative team has a very clear gauge of how much momentum a turn has too.. and that's by judging the audience's reaction to the current state of the storyline. It's a very tangible feedback that you just can't replicate with road agents notes and letter grades. So in that sense, maybe a momentum bar isn't cheating all that much

[Hurrikane]

[QUOTE=crayon;402868]If I'm reading it correctly, where Remiane is seeing it as simplifying matters is that it'd effectively tell you the optimum time to pull the trigger on that turn angle (ie. when the bar is full), as opposed to you feeling it out. Which is true in a way, but then I start thinking that in reality a creative team has a very clear gauge of how much momentum a turn has too.. and that's by judging the audience's reaction to the current state of the storyline. It's a very tangible feedback that you just can't replicate with road agents notes and letter grades. So in that sense, maybe a momentum bar isn't cheating all that much[/QUOTE] That's a fair way of looking at it, and I at least see Remiane's point a bit clearer now. The other thing is that when you have full momentum, you might want to see how much more you can get out of teasing dissention, as the momentum could have a direct effect on how well an angle or match is rated. The risk there is that you could lose the high momentum that you have for playing it out too long.