Has Anyone Managed To Keep TCW National?

[SadisticBlessings]

Seriously, I've got to wonder if I'm missing something completely obvious in my booking or if the company is simply designed to fail no matter what. I've run about a dozen games with TCW now, and honestly I'm just not sure what I'm doing wrong here. As far as logic goes, the booking is perfect - but no matter what, the company falls to Cult level at the exact same time every game. The problem seems to arise after Tuesday of Week 3, as we fall to Cult every single time on Wednesday no matter how good the preceding shows were. At first I just thought it was my bad booking, but in my most recent game I'm almost positive this isn't the case. Here's the exact results from all 3 weeks of the main shows, transcribed... the angles I took out, suffice to say they all involve either The Syndicate, RDJ, Rick Law, or the Golden/Rahn/Baine trio and rated C+ or higher: [QUOTE][B]Week 1 (Mid West)[/B] Freddy Huggins over Aaron Andrews (C-) TCW All Action Title: Sammy Bach over Harry Allen (C) Tyson Baine & Rocky Golden over The Tag Team Specialists (C-) Koshiro Ino over Brent Hill (B-) John Anderson over Joey Minnesota (B) Main Event: Tommy Cornell over Eddie Peak (B) [b]Final Show Grade = B[/b][/quote] The post-show message said the show was a success, and should have increased our popularity. No other notes. [quote][b]Week 2 (South East)[/b] Eddie Peak & Genghis Rahn over The Dirty White Boys (D+) Tyson Baine over Joel Bryant (C) The New Wave over Texas Pete & Ronnie V. Pain (C-) Brent Hill over Charles Avatar (C+) Ricky Dale Johnson & Rick Law draw Tommy Cornell & Wolf Hawkins (C+) Main Event: Koshiro Ino over John Anderson (B) [b]Final Show Grade = B-[/b][/quote] The original plan was for Cornell/Hawkins vs RDJ/Law to main event, but after several games I realized that match can't seem to get above a C+ rating (even with them all at A-A* momentum, and even if the finish isn't a draw), so I switched out to Anderson/Ino. Again, the post-show message says the show was a success, and should have increased our popularity. Again, no other notes. No over-used workers, nothing. And then comes week 3.... [quote][B]Week 3 (Mid Atlantic)[/B] The New Wave over The Dirty White Boys (C) Baine, Rahn & Golden over American Buffalo & The Tag Team Specialists (D+) Sam Keith over Mainstream Hernandez (C) TCW Tag Team Titles: The Machines over The Young Guns (C-) Wolf Hawkins over Joey Minnesota (B) Main Event: Tommy Cornell over Koshiro Ino (A) [b]Final Show Grade = B[/b][/quote] And once again, according to the post-show notes, our popularity should have increased. Which makes sense, considering the A rated main event should have made this our best show so far. The 'increased in popularity' was the only note I saw. But wait! We fall to Cult the next day regardless. The Great Lakes and Mid-Atlantic regions have fallen .5% in popularity (in fact, it looks like all regions did despite my 'increase in popularity' thanks to the shows), giving us a C grade in Importance in those two regions. This had happened every other time I was running through the game as well, but on those occasions I had at least pulled one C+ rated show. This time, no excuses; we fell to Cult even though we put on nothing but good shows that should have increased our popularity. Now, I think my booking in these shows is pretty solid - I'm not scheduling huge matches, obviously, but aside from throwing Cornell and RDJ or Cornell and Law into the main events every week I don't think I can do much better. After booking these guys for quite a while I'm pretty sure B rated shows are about the best they can pull off right out of the gate, barring great luck with chemistry or something. So I have to wonder: is this my fault, or is it the game? Is TCW meant to be impossible to keep at National, or has someone managed it (without editing)? Is there some little trick to booking TCW that I'm missing?

[soundsofsilver]

Did you have an adequate number of wrestlers on your roster?

[SadisticBlessings]

[QUOTE=soundsofsilver;433809]Did you have an adequate number of wrestlers on your roster?[/QUOTE] Yeah, they start off with around the ideal roster and I kept every single member while hiring new workers. Never dipped below the recommended amounts in any category.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I'm not sure, could the indusry level have anything to do with it?

[SadisticBlessings]

[QUOTE=TheEdgeOfReason;433813]I'm not sure, could the indusry level have anything to do with it?[/QUOTE] I'm not positive, but I think the industry state has more to do with attendance and television ratings than actual size changes; it doesn't directly influence regional importance or a promotion's popularity or prestige. And so far, while obviously I haven't replicated the "all B- or better shows" part of this post, this fall to Cult has happened in every game regardless of industry. In this particular game I set it to Medium & Rising, but I've seen the fall before when it would've started in a "High" state.

[Adam Ryland]

It can be done, yes. The AI has done it many times, and I did it once during testing (I don't mean that as "only once" BTW, I mean I only played as TCW once!) It's important to remember that TCW are on the edge of a popularity category, so you need to make sure you start strong with B and B+ shows.

[The Shape]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;433820]It can be done, yes. The AI has done it many times, and I did it once during testing (I don't mean that as "only once" BTW, I mean I only played as TCW once!) It's important to remember that TCW are on the edge of a popularity category, so you need to make sure you start strong with B and B+ shows.[/QUOTE] You haven't really answered his main point though. If they're on the edge of a popularity category then how does running shows that increases their popularity cause them to drop down in popularity?

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=The Shape;433825]You haven't really answered his main point though. If they're on the edge of a popularity category then how does running shows that increases their popularity cause them to drop down in popularity?[/QUOTE] I don't know, I've not looked at his game. One obvious point is that the message that says that it's increased popularity doesn't mean it increased everywhere, it just means it increased popularity in more areas than it lost - presumably the areas that he did lose in are where the issue is.

[Actarus]

I don’t know if there’s a “trick” per se, but knowing what it takes to achieve and maintain a size level helps, and I suspect people think it works like 07. It doesn’t, as I think people have forgotten regional importance. Entry #13 from Adam’s diary says: “Coming over from WMMA, albeit with a slight change, is the location prestige feature. Every region of the game is given its own prestige; this is a measure of how important it is in the game world, so traditional wrestling hotbeds like the Tri State region would be very prestigious, whereas somewhere with very little history like Scotland would have a fairly low prestige. Prestige is used in deciding a promotion's size. So if you were 80% popular in a 50% prestige region, that counts as 40% Prestige Points (80 x 50%). These are then used in the size calculations (i.e. "you need to get 25% Prestige Points in one region to reach Small size", etc). Don't worry if that sounds complex, there is an on-screen display that shows you exactly what is going on, you don't need to do any maths yourself. This feature adds more strategy to the game, as it means that not every region is as "valuable" as the others.” TCW’s Current Size: National According to the handy “size” button: “You achieved this size rating by reaching C+ importance in eight regions of America and being at a minimum of E+ importance throughout the entire country.” Obviously, in order to maintain national size, everything I quoted must be maintained. In fact, TCW has [B]9 [/B]regions at C+ (or greater) importance. All of them except Puerto Rico and Hawaii. So how does the importance of each region play into strategizing your booking of shows now? Well, the importance of every US region is listed below: Importance: Tri State – 100% Mid South – 95% Mid West - 90% New England – 90% South East – 90% South West – 85% Great Lakes – 85% North West – 85% Mid Atlantic – 85% Puerto Rico – 75% Hawaii – 70% A grade of C+ is 65.1% to 71% . To figure out the [B]minimal [/B]popularity you need in each region, divide 65.1% by each region’s importance. They end up being (NOTE that I rounded up in every occasion, and that might be slightly inaccurate. For example, it might actually be 68.5% in mid south, but I’m not going in the editor to check this out right now): Tri State – 65.1% Mid South – 68.6% Mid West – 72.4% New England – 72.4% South East – 72.4% South West – 76.6% Great Lakes – 76.6% North West – 76.6% Mid Atlantic – 76.6% Puerto Rico – 86.8% Hawaii – 93% TCW’s popularity at the beginning of the game: Tri State – 77.0% (they’re very safe in this region) Mid South – 77.0% (ditto) Mid West – 82.0% (ditto) New England – 77.0% (+ 4.6% above threshold) [B]South East – 77.0% (+ 0.4% above threshold…oh crap)[/B] South West – 90.0% (very safe here) [B]Great Lakes – 77.0% (+ 0.4% above threshold…oh crap)[/B] North West – 82.0% (fairly safe) [B]Mid Atlantic – 77.0% (+ 0.4% above threshold…oh crap)[/B] Puerto Rico – 77.0% (not bothering, since they need 8 regions at C+ importance or higher) Hawaii – 80.0% (read what I wrote about Puerto Rico) So areas like Tri State and South West are very safe right now, and you can afford a “decent” show or two here, without pulling out all the stops. TCW’s most critical regions right now are South East, Great Lakes, and Mid Atlantic. Fall below 76.6% popularity in 2 out of three of these, and you’ll fall to Cult very fast. So pull out all the stops with your booking at these spots. Assuming it still takes somewhere around 2 letter grades above a certain area to maintain or increase popularity (like in 07), these three spots are at high C+ popularity right now (77.0%), so you need HIGH B / low B+ level shows in these three critical areas (I think...) TCW is now 90% in its match ratio, so only the top guys can get away with promos now anyways. Use your most popular and skilled guys, and maybe give your younger less popular talent the night off. Remember TCW is less about angles and more about wrestling, so give main eventers Tommy Cornell or RDJ the mic, and give Aaron Andrews (who has supreme potential, but is an enhancement talent right now) the night off. Hope this all helps.

[Adam Ryland]

Good post Actarus, I'm glad people are starting to understand that there's a whole level of strategy that wasn't there in 07 that needs to be considered.

[SadisticBlessings]

Yeah, great analysis Actarus. I was trying to book with those things taken into consideration... note two of my three shows were in the South East and Mid Atlantic - next time I'm switching Week 1 from Mid West to the Great Lakes, and switching things up in Week 2 to aim for a B-B+ rated show instead. Hopefully that'll do the trick to get me to Malice In Wonderland at National, at least. And yeah, it's tough, but I'm liking that National promotions don't have it so easy this time. I've played quite a few of the companies I've liked, and so far TCW is far and away the most difficult to maintain in the game. I imagine they'd still be totally playable at Cult, too, but staying at National is taking all the booking acumen I've accumulated since the EWR days. Good luck to those of you trying TCW diaries - booking shows up to this standard and keeping realistic storylines running certainly won't be an easy job. :D

[FINisher]

Wow. Nice job Actarus, and also great to see some new additions in action and not just in Dev. Journal.. Just fantastic. And not just in the difficult of gaining/staying in size; For the first time ever I seem to have some problems in the long run with my booking and putting on shows. And that is just a good thing, I just love the new challenges and gameplay additions! Can't wait for Sunday (next week for me) when we all can continue and advance in our games :)

[wilts]

I haven't tried it, but would holding your house-shows on a continual loop in the 3 areas that are in danger at least help to keep it from dropping?

[TheEdgeOfReason]

[QUOTE=wilts;433885]I haven't tried it, but would holding your house-shows on a continual loop in the 3 areas that are in danger at least help to keep it from dropping?[/QUOTE] It would but the normal shows are running there and they are not up to snuff. That's why it's dropping.

[Wallbanger]

I notice in the full version update that Adam bumped TCW's pop by two points in all the regions that were 77% in the demo, which also bumps their promotion ranking to 2nd. While on one hand it means you have to pull off even better shows out of the gate, the additonal 2 percent cushion buys you a few weeks to incorporate any changes you want and build some momentum into the first PPV. To be honest I think this properly reflects the canonical narrative -- TCW is supposed to be in a stronger position than it was at the beginning of 2007 (where they were just at the edge of National and could drop to Cult with one or two poorly booked shows). Props to Adam for making the adjustment in the data.

[Michael Wayne]

I went out and signed everyone I could on the first day with at least a C overness in the US to give them the added star power and help stop the overness bleeding of poorly booked shows. [QUOTE=Adam Ryland;433839]Good post Actarus, I'm glad people are starting to understand that there's a whole level of strategy that wasn't there in 07 that needs to be considered.[/QUOTE] the only thing being neglected here that I don't see people asking is how do you actually RAISE location prestige. As prestige and overness are two different things, and it's easy to raise or lower overness. But what does one have to do to raise location prestige. I haven't seen anything that seems to indicate anything on the subject matter. Like, how would we go about getting "prestige points"?

[CyberNotorei]

Also curious guys... You need to book skilled guys and guys with overness. How long should these matches be going for on a 2 hr show? I forgot which match, but in the demo I booked a tag match where "ALL" parties were visibly tired. Did I do something wrong? I also see the AI booking totals of 5 matches and such... where I end up booking 6-7 matches with 2-3 segments/angles. Again, wrong?

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=CyberNotorei;434723]Also curious guys... You need to book skilled guys and guys with overness. How long should these matches be going for on a 2 hr show? I forgot which match, but in the demo I booked a tag match where "ALL" parties were visibly tired. Did I do something wrong? I also see the AI booking totals of 5 matches and such... where I end up booking 6-7 matches with 2-3 segments/angles. Again, wrong?[/QUOTE] I dropped my show down to an hour and a half. Made it much easier to book. TCW just doesn't have enough guys to make a 2hr show work. Esp since many of them have poor to average stamina.

[CyberNotorei]

Thanks Michael. That actually makes perfect sense now. Any info on how long most of these guys can go? Example... when trying to put on a "STELLAR" A-B+ show, how long can guys like Cornell vs Rahn go? Could it be a regular match, or throw the world title on the line with a cage invovled, etc. I just don't know if Cornell defending the world title "each" week would burn out the crowd.

[Michael Wayne]

I usually put C rated guys in matches between 10 and 15 minutes. B's anywhere from 20-30. A's 30+

[Actarus]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;434680] the only thing being neglected here that I don't see people asking is how do you actually RAISE location prestige. As prestige and overness are two different things, and it's easy to raise or lower overness. But what does one have to do to raise location prestige. I haven't seen anything that seems to indicate anything on the subject matter. Like, how would we go about getting "prestige points"?[/QUOTE] Michael, my entire post was actually about this subject matter. I used different terminology, but think of "prestige points" and "importance" (as it relates to each individual promotion) as being one and the same, and related to overness. Let me use Tri-state as an example; it's a 100% importance area. So let's say you go from 0 to 10.0 overness in that area. Multiply that overness by the importance of the area to get prestige points: So 10 X 1.00 = 10 "prestige points" in the tri-state area. Now, same example except in Hawaii, which is a 70% importance area. You go from 0 to 10 overness in the area. 10 X .70 = 7.0 "prestige points" in Hawaii. Letter grades correspond accordingly.

[Dragonmack]

Having done an autoclick game through the first two years, at the beginning of 2010 both TCW and SWF are global, and at #2 and #3 respectively, with a surprising PGHW going global and claiming the #1 spot in the world. And in a strange moment in 08, Steve Frehley vs Chris Caulfield won match of the year in 2009 while both are in SWF.

[Michael Wayne]

so provided I understand this right, if you put on a show lower than your popularity, any popularity you lose is multiplied against the importance of the area to determine ultimately whether you fall or not (yet still lose overness and importance).

[Actarus]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;434748]so provided I understand this right, if you put on a show lower than your popularity, any popularity you lose is multiplied against the importance of the area to determine ultimately whether you fall or not (yet still lose overness and importance).[/QUOTE] Pretty much; quite simply: when you raise overness in an area, you also raise importance (gain prestige points), and vice versa. It's just that some areas are more important then areas, so it makes it necessary to strategize where you hold shows, and maybe even alter your booking to pull out all the stops (or not) to ensure success.

[Nachtfalter]

Something that definitely helped me to keep TCW national was changig the match ratio to 70%. I found it really hard to get high rated matches whereas The Syndicate and especially Cornell produce A and even A*-angles rather effortlessly. On top of that, I put the top guys in matches at pretty much every show. My first five shows I had Cornell defend his belt against RDJ, Rahn, RDJ again (in a cage match), Golden and finally Baine at the PPV. It's my first time playing with the Cornellverse, I never thought it could be fun but WMMA really brought me around on fictional databases. Now I've played the first month with USPW, SWF and TCW. Especially playing with TCW has been great because it's really challenging to keep them on the national level and because the whole situation with a dominant heel stable and a bunch of newly turned babyfaces in the main event is highly intriguing.