Diary Writing Tips

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=lazorbeak;668882]Don't take it personally but even as a fan of SWF I couldn't ever get into your diary for that very reason. Your roster was just so loaded and every match pulled a great rating and it seemed to come at the expense of character. Regular A*s just aren't interesting to me; I much prefer when it's the exception, the result of happy coincedences of storytelling and wrestling, rather than some bizarro world where 20 guys can have a rating of A or better and every match just gets a B- at an absolute minimum.[/QUOTE] Oh, I would never take offense to honesty. I never meant to let things get so bloated. The amount of talented workers on the roster - having workers as talented as El Leon and American Elemental on the undercard - is part of the reason for "easy" grades. But so is having so many workers that are so over. In the SWF, at least, that makes things pretty easy. What would have kept things from getting overloaded in that regard, I think, would have been to keep the roster only slightly bigger than the recommended size. Without as big a roster, it would have been impossible to keep the main event scene as protected, which is what helped push so many of them up to A* so quickly and keep them there. It really just came down to manipulating the game mechanics. It was never really my intent to do things "cheap", but I just wanted to make sure I succeeded in the game. I didn't really think about it creating problems like that.

[lazorbeak]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;668916]Oh, I would never take offense to honesty. I never meant to let things get so bloated. The amount of talented workers on the roster - having workers as talented as El Leon and American Elemental on the undercard - is part of the reason for "easy" grades. But so is having so many workers that are so over. In the SWF, at least, that makes things pretty easy. What would have kept things from getting overloaded in that regard, I think, would have been to keep the roster only slightly bigger than the recommended size. Without as big a roster, it would have been impossible to keep the main event scene as protected, which is what helped push so many of them up to A* so quickly and keep them there. It really just came down to manipulating the game mechanics. It was never really my intent to do things "cheap", but I just wanted to make sure I succeeded in the game. I didn't really think about it creating problems like that.[/QUOTE] Well unless I'm speaking for some silent demographic I'm unaware of I don't think it's a terribly widespread opinion. But yeah, to me it always looked like you were manipulating the game, rather than just having an entertaining diary. You're right when you say it's not that hard to book SWF; it's really not once you're familiar with the game. But what your version of SWF really lacked for me is variety. Without valleys, the peaks don't seem as impressive.

[SasoreGatame]

[URL="http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showthread.php?t=42130"]Here's a good example of what NOT do to..[/URL]

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=lazorbeak;668927]Well unless I'm speaking for some silent demographic I'm unaware of I don't think it's a terribly widespread opinion. But yeah, to me it always looked like you were manipulating the game, rather than just having an entertaining diary. You're right when you say it's not that hard to book SWF; it's really not once you're familiar with the game. But what your version of SWF really lacked for me is variety. Without valleys, the peaks don't seem as impressive.[/QUOTE] Well, I guess that's really what it comes down to - whether you want to call "power gaming" or "gaming for results", I guess that is what I was doing for a large part. It wasn't that intentional and I did try to keep things somewhat realistic for the diary... but look at back, I guess I didn't. I said from the beginning that the diary would be more about the stories and that grades wouldn't really matter, but that's never really been true. And I realize what you mean - when everything is pretty good, how does it really matter when some is really good? Can an A match really stand out on a show full of B matches? Ah, well... we live and learn... Or in a case like this, write and learn. While I will make some adjustments, I can't say I'm going to change absolutely everything about how I do things. A lot of it is kinda established at this point. But I will do things differently if I ever do another diary. SWF: Generation Supreme Version 2.0 would look very very different. Interesting discussion for the Diary Tip thread... Guess it kinda belongs...

[foolinc]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;668979]Well, I guess that's really what it comes down to - whether you want to call "power gaming" or "gaming for results", I guess that is what I was doing for a large part. It wasn't that intentional and I did try to keep things somewhat realistic for the diary... but look at back, I guess I didn't. I said from the beginning that the diary would be more about the stories and that grades wouldn't really matter, but that's never really been true. And I realize what you mean - when everything is pretty good, how does it really matter when some is really good? Can an A match really stand out on a show full of B matches? Ah, well... we live and learn... Or in a case like this, write and learn. While I will make some adjustments, I can't say I'm going to change absolutely everything about how I do things. A lot of it is kinda established at this point. But I will do things differently if I ever do another diary. SWF: Generation Supreme Version 2.0 would look very very different. Interesting discussion for the Diary Tip thread... Guess it kinda belongs...[/QUOTE] Though it's really not fair to fault the grades when I can get T-Rex to a B from a C+ in the first month of an USPW game by using the McMahon Sr. feud with James Justice with a few logical monster unleashed angles thrown in (mind you that Justice goes from a B- to a B so it's not like I am transferring overness). Bigpapa's SWF diary is months into the game, has a large amount of "Justices" and "TRexs", and 2 A shows, one B show, and monthly PPVs. In the first month of February I ran a 4 minute standard interview segment with T-Rex and here is what I got: [QUOTE]T-Rex had an interview hyping his upcoming singles match with James Justice. - B Notes: T-Rex and Sheik Mustafa are a good pairing, they play off each other well. [/QUOTE] If I can get a B out of T-Rex's entertainment skill in one months time, why can't someone get really good grades out of ANYONE in a couple months time?

[Hyde Hill]

Yep plus hes playing the SWF it's kinda hard not to succeed if you know the game mechanics at all. I still find the diary intresting on the basis of the stories he tells on and off screen which is always the most important part imho.

[D-Lyrium]

People write dynasties for different reasons. BP was very clear right at the start of the dynasty that he knew it wasn't going to be terribly challenging, he was writing it for the storylines and the characters, which he does very very well indeed. Are you seriously saying that the fact he's doing really well grade-wise makes it a [i]bad[/i] dynasty, lazorbeak? Like I said, some people's dynasties chronicle the rise of the company, some people focus more on the stories. Some do a bit of both. One isn't better than the others. If BP was deliberately spamming angles he knew would rate highly, for no real purpose other than to get higher grades, you might have a point, but he's clearly not...

[lazorbeak]

[QUOTE=D-Lyrium;669294]People write dynasties for different reasons. BP was very clear right at the start of the dynasty that he knew it wasn't going to be terribly challenging, he was writing it for the storylines and the characters, which he does very very well indeed. Are you seriously saying that the fact he's doing really well grade-wise makes it a [i]bad[/i] dynasty, lazorbeak?[/quote] Ummmmm, no? Look at what I wrote: [quote=lazorbeak]to me it always looked like you were manipulating the game, rather than just having an entertaining diary. You're right when you say it's not that hard to book SWF; it's really not once you're familiar with the game. But what your version of SWF really lacked for me is variety. Without valleys, the peaks don't seem as impressive.[/quote] My problem is that to me it read like a conscious manipulation of the game, and not booking that I would actually enjoy watching, or reading about. While the characterizations aren't bad, at least in the early going there really wasn't enough variety for me. And I don't mean variety= a bunch of workers, I mean, sports entertainment isn't only about great matches and "serious" feuds. Did I call it BAD somewhere and then forget about it? Because all I see is that I couldn't get into it? [quote=D-Lyrium]If BP was deliberately spamming angles he knew would rate highly, for no real purpose other than to get higher grades, you might have a point, but he's clearly not...[/QUOTE] Did you just gloss over the whole discussion earlier about McFly being rated on overness to preserve an A* rating during a back and forth promo? The fact that he has so many shows he can protect most of his roster and let them sit in the A* popularity? That doesn't just happen on its own. Also, I "might have a point"? Didn't I pretty ****ing clearly preface this with the fact that this is my personal preference as a reader? Or hey, how about this: [quote=Bigpapa42]I'm almost surprised I haven't driven away readers with how relatively easy booking "well" with this game has become. [/quote] Seriously, let the guy defend his own diary. We were having a pretty interesting conversation and BP seemed to have a good handle on the point I was trying to make.

[Bigpapa42]

Not to answer for him, but I never took it as lazor saying its a bad dynasty, but simply that the continual success made it unappealing to him. Not to his tastes, and I can't argue with that. And thanks for the kind words, D. Now, someone else bring up their diary for discussion... I feel bad that this has turned into a discussion of mine... Edit - looks like lazor responded before me... ah well...

[Self]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;669403]Now, someone else bring up their diary for discussion... I feel bad that this has turned into a discussion of mine...[/QUOTE] Well, if you insist. I've been having something of a dilemma with the Frontier Combat Kingdom. My roster is... Is it too powerful? I mean, I've got Christian Faith, who's one of the top American babyfaces, Jeremy Stone AND Steve DeColt... and Richard Eisen... and Sam Strong... Now, I got them all through legitimate means, but is it just me, or is that a bit off-putting? To have it so easy? I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=Self;669428] I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?[/QUOTE] If you are, it's a trap [I]in your head.[/I] You know when ratings interest me in diaries? Two possibilities: [LIST=1] [*]When they're surprising [*]When they're weak enough that there's suspense about dropping a size [/LIST] The second case lends to the diary. Will they fall to Cult? What happens then? Can they get back? Thing is, the first case also lends to the diary. Look at Pistol Pete Hall's career resurgence in bigpapa's diary. Shock ratings often lead to a burgeoning new star. Ratings interest me, in short, when they affect the game. We're playing a game here, right? And we're trying to interest people in the stories we tell with it, right? So when that game's numbers feed back into the story, that's when the numbers are interesting. If Zeel makes Giant Tana a breakout superstar scoring As for his matches, this will interest people. If a surprise vein of good chemistry creates a storyline, this will interest people. Other than that, I really don't give a monkey's about other people's ratings.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=Self;669428]Well, if you insist. I've been having something of a dilemma with the Frontier Combat Kingdom. My roster is... Is it too powerful? I mean, I've got Christian Faith, who's one of the top American babyfaces, Jeremy Stone AND Steve DeColt... and Richard Eisen... and Sam Strong... Now, I got them all through legitimate means, but is it just me, or is that a bit off-putting? To have it so easy? I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?[/QUOTE] Too much talent is only a negative to me if its not used. The war you have going on between Eisen, Strong, and Garcia makes great use of them. As for the top level talent you have, I actually quite like it. I like that they all offer something different - Stone is the technician, Faith is the entertaining brawler, and DeColt is somewhere between. I don't know that its about how too much or not enough talent, but using what you have well. And you do that. Then again, I am a touch biased when it comes to questions about "too much talent"...

[foolinc]

[QUOTE=Self;669428]Well, if you insist. I've been having something of a dilemma with the Frontier Combat Kingdom. My roster is... Is it too powerful? I mean, I've got Christian Faith, who's one of the top American babyfaces, Jeremy Stone AND Steve DeColt... and Richard Eisen... and Sam Strong... Now, I got them all through legitimate means, but is it just me, or is that a bit off-putting? To have it so easy? I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?[/QUOTE] It's in your head. The promotion is from a C-Verse draft. Of course it's going to be stacked. I know the promotion I drafted was: [QUOTE]Main Event: Remo, Liberty, Chris Storm (Lobster Warrior), Wolf Hawkins, Sammy Bach, Elmo Benson Upper Midcard: Morpheus (American Buffalo), Art Reed, Phantasos (Danny Fonzerelli), Grandmaster Phunk, Clark Alexander, Harry Allen Midcard: Steve Gumble, Fumihiro Ota, James Prudence, Freddy Huggins, Donald Jay (Donnie J), Ted Powell, Paul Huntingdon (Aristocrat), Nicky Champion Lower Midcard: Marihito Masuko, Matt Sparrow, Grease Hogg, Kirk Jameson Opener: VENOM, Masked Cougar, Casey Valentine, Dragon Del Arco Isis Jr. Staff: Marv Earnest, Phil Vibert, Crippler Ray Kingman, Eugene Williams[/QUOTE] BTW if anyone has that data I'd love to have it again.

[praguepride]

[QUOTE=Self;669428]Well, if you insist. I've been having something of a dilemma with the Frontier Combat Kingdom. My roster is... Is it too powerful? I mean, I've got Christian Faith, who's one of the top American babyfaces, Jeremy Stone AND Steve DeColt... and Richard Eisen... and Sam Strong... Now, I got them all through legitimate means, but is it just me, or is that a bit off-putting? To have it so easy? I'm actually in the "BigPapa's too strong" camp myself. I find his plethora of A*'s a tad irritating... which is pure jealousy on my part (CO-winner of DotM???) but am I in the same trap?[/QUOTE] I'll be honest, at first when I saw your roster I rolled my eyes a bit, but then seeing how you used them made me break down my own barriers because you weren't rubbing in how great your booking was. Nothing irritates me like when someone grabs the best talent and then brags when they get A* matches and shows. yeah, let me know when you get an A match out of T.M.A, then you can brag :D But what you do provide is a completely different setting for those characters. Most of them are locked into their promotions with no real chance of escape unless you sim a dozen years and their promotion goes backrupt or falls in size or something. It's not normal for Jack DeColt to be wrestling Sam Keith and you've given them compelling personalities that it turns your diary into a "fantasy dream match" type scenario which does have an appealing novelty to it because you just dont' see it anywhere else. So, the tl;dr is that your compelling characters more then overcompensate for your bloated talent pool. If you really want to discuss your dairy further, send me a PM.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=praguepride;669557]I'll be honest, at first when I saw your roster I rolled my eyes a bit, but then seeing how you used them made me break down my own barriers because you weren't rubbing in how great your booking was. Nothing irritates me like when someone grabs the best talent and then brags when they get A* matches and shows. yeah, let me know when you get an A match out of T.M.A, then you can brag :D But what you do provide is a completely different setting for those characters. Most of them are locked into their promotions with no real chance of escape unless you sim a dozen years and their promotion goes backrupt or falls in size or something. It's not normal for Jack DeColt to be wrestling Sam Keith and you've given them compelling personalities that it turns your diary into a "fantasy dream match" type scenario which does have an appealing novelty to it because you just dont' see it anywhere else. So, the tl;dr is that your compelling characters more then overcompensate for your bloated talent pool. If you really want to discuss your dairy further, send me a PM.[/QUOTE] That's a pretty good summary, PP. The "unique" aspect to FCK is one of the things I enjoy most. Its a collection of talent that you would just never otherwise see together in a game, yet it doesn't feel just randomly thrown together either. As much as the characterization and promos (which are very good), that's what hooked me.

[Guest cmdrsam]

Looking for some insperation here guys. I'm kinda old school, I've liked the old school tag team matches. Add your favorite team, The RNR Express, The Fabulas Ones, Lawler/Dundee, well you get the picture. I hate, and I do mean hate writing out the matchs. I want to include more of them in my diary. Seventies to mid 80's just screams tag team divisions to me. But I can not find a easy way to properly put the match in words. Any thoughts?

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=cmdrsam;671443]Looking for some insperation here guys. I'm kinda old school, I've liked the old school tag team matches. Add your favorite team, The RNR Express, The Fabulas Ones, Lawler/Dundee, well you get the picture. I hate, and I do mean hate writing out the matchs. I want to include more of them in my diary. Seventies to mid 80's just screams tag team divisions to me. But I can not find a easy way to properly put the match in words. Any thoughts?[/QUOTE] Nothing wrong with just a fairly basic description, especially if the match isn't an overly important one. If you want a bit more detail than that, then just figure out the basics of how you want the match to unfold... Did it follow the "formula" of isolation leading to a hot tag? Was it open and even? Lots of double-teaming? Cheating heels? Give a basic description of that, add a flourish or two, and you have a decent write-up.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep as long as some part is intresting for the reader and more importantly you. Look at infitywipy or more recently some of bigpapa's undercard matches (no slight intended I actually admire being able to do that). Just convey a simple message as to what happend and a grade is fine.

[Guest Vitamin E]

Writing matches really doesnthave to be that hard. You dont need to have 5 paragraphs, but I would suggest putting more detail for bigger shows. Matches are also good for putting characters over. Think of it this way. The WWF could have had as many Taker promos they wanted, but if they turned the lights out during his matches, how could they expect to get him over as a supernatural monster if we couldnt see him sit up out of nowhere or see how he destroyed opponents or seen how he was controlled by Paul Bearer? As for help with writing matches, you can be brief. A few sentences. Readers cant really get anything out of "So and so dominated then won with a roll up." It's cheating them to me. Just play the match in your head, think how the characters would work in the match, then write down what you think someone reading an internet report of the match would need to/should know. Was there a hot tag? how did the partners work? Was there animosity between the foes having to tag? What changed the pace of the match? What shifted the momentum? Things like that.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=Hyde Hill;671505]Yep as long as some part is intresting for the reader and more importantly you. Look at infitywipy or more recently some of bigpapa's undercard matches (no slight intended I actually admire being able to do that). Just convey a simple message as to what happend and a grade is fine.[/QUOTE] Its gonna take a lot more than that to offend, Hyde. At an earlier point in my diary, I got the idea in my head that even simple little squash matches should have some detail. And it started to get pretty cumbersome try to come up with detail for that many matches, especially given having two shows to write-up. I try to pick and choose carefully which matches will just get a brief summary and which ones get an actual proper write-up. So far, haven't had any complaints. So its an approach that I would recommend to anyone, especially when writing up some of those matches is starting to feel like a burden.

[Guest Vitamin E]

Picking and choosing which matches to give more detail is good as well. A match that goes 13 minutes should be given more detail than a match that goes 3 minutes, otherwise it's just saying that no one match is more important than any other match on the card, which is bad to do.

[angeldelayette]

[QUOTE=Vitamin E;671522]Picking and choosing which matches to give more detail is good as well. A match that goes 13 minutes should be given more detail than a match that goes 3 minutes, otherwise it's just saying that no one match is more important than any other match on the card, which is bad to do.[/QUOTE] I generally focus on the match grades, rather than the time. The better a match is, the more detail there should be IMO. Also the main event generally gets a good writeup unless it's a complete and total trainwreck.

[d_w_w]

[QUOTE=Vitamin E;671522]Picking and choosing which matches to give more detail is good as well. A match that goes 13 minutes should be given more detail than a match that goes 3 minutes, otherwise it's just saying that no one match is more important than any other match on the card, which is bad to do.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=angeldelayette;671535]I generally focus on the match grades, rather than the time. The better a match is, the more detail there should be IMO. Also the main event generally gets a good writeup unless it's a complete and total trainwreck.[/QUOTE] These are both good approaches. Personally, I focus on the storyline relevance of the match. If it's a match that has implications for the diary moving forward, I'll write it out in detail (regardless of the length and rating). If it's "just" a match for the sake of a match, I'll probably make it pretty short.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=d_w_w;671541]These are both good approaches. Personally, I focus on the storyline relevance of the match. If it's a match that has implications for the diary moving forward, I'll write it out in detail (regardless of the length and rating). If it's "just" a match for the sake of a match, I'll probably make it pretty short.[/QUOTE] I try to mix it up a bit. But a lot of times, it does come down to how much the match means in the greater scheme of things. For example, I can throw almost any opponent against Christian Faith for his title and get at least a B grade. Assuming its usually going to main event the show, its probably going to one of the longest matches. But its a stone-standard title defense with no further implications and Faith is never really is any danger of losing his title, a detailed write-up seems pretty unnecessary.

[Self]

For me, it usually just depends on how much material I have. I try to write for time but sometimes I don't have 34 minutes worth of material, or I have an action-packed 4 minutes. My plan for TV going forward is to keep everything but the Main Event as short as humanly possible, while letting the Main Event breathe with full-sentences and several intricate spots. It should make it seem important, like the main reason you'd be reading the show, as opposed to the last match on the card, or the one that would get the best rating. Bizarre point of interest. I give up on 87% of wrestling shows as the main event begins these days. I'm enjoying Smackdown, and I like the main event players on it, but I've only watched a handful of Main Event matches since the draft.