Sigh.

[Deltoidius]

It's kind of hard to stay excited about about a game when there is absolutely zero reporting on the development progress, much less a screenshot or two. If there isn't a committment of the such little time it takes to push print screen and post a picture, or to type up a short development update once a month or so, I find it hard to believe this game is happening anytime in the foreseeable future. If it wasn't for the gameplay quality and good post-release patching of the BBCF game, I would have given up following this pipe dream of a game long ago. My interest in this game has eroded from extremely high to what I would currently describe as ever-fleetingly flaccid. To use an analogy, this has been like when you are watching a porno but the camera keeps cutting to the sweaty guy or the back of the chick's head. This forum has been all sweaty guy so far.

[The Masked Orange]

Agreed, it's such a hard game to get into. I got it on demo and I couldn't figure out why I scored nothing after four matches. It bugged me. There are too many kinks to appeal to an audience that aren't die-hard football fans

[eMLBCommish]

[QUOTE=The Masked Orange;517232]Agreed, it's such a hard game to get into. I got it on demo and I couldn't figure out why I scored nothing after four matches. It bugged me. There are too many kinks to appeal to an audience that aren't die-hard football fans[/QUOTE] :confused: You must be confused with something else, because this game hasn't been released...no demo, no nothing.

[galleyfan]

No, there has been no demo or not very many postings in the nearly two years since the game was announced in Jan. '07. I was really jazzed for the game also but have lost all interest in the peas. I got so tired of waiting I picked up Football Mogal 2008 & Action PC football. I doubt now that I will spend any more money on another football sim. Two years was long enough for me. Good luck with the game. I'm sure It'll be good whenever it comes out.

[southernwebb04]

Deltoid, everyone can understand your frustration. Does whining about it help at all? Here's an analogy, so you'll better understand. It's like when you're going for a run, and you know it will take a while, but people start throwing stones at you on your way home, making it that much harder to do. If YOU were doing ANYTHING, and then halfway into it, because it's taking a little longer than expected, you got told that your customers 'aren't interested' anymore, wouldn't that suck, just a bit? Keep your lame and condescending comments to yourself, if you were banking on this game that much, then maybe you could have offered some help.

[Deltoidius]

[QUOTE=southernwebb04;518034]Deltoid, everyone can understand your frustration. Does whining about it help at all? Here's an analogy, so you'll better understand. It's like when you're going for a run, and you know it will take a while, but people start throwing stones at you on your way home, making it that much harder to do. If YOU were doing ANYTHING, and then halfway into it, because it's taking a little longer than expected, you got told that your customers 'aren't interested' anymore, wouldn't that suck, just a bit? Keep your lame and condescending comments to yourself, if you were banking on this game that much, then maybe you could have offered some help.[/QUOTE] Lol, brilliant analogy, Fanboy. I'm sure that's happened to everyone a few times in their life, so we can all relate to that really well. There is a difference between whining for food because your tummy is hungry, and whining for food because you are suffering from starvation. You fail to see the proper business relationship here. We are the customers and they are the business. Their success and our satisfaction are both determined by how well they accommodate our demands. It's in both of our best interest for them to not ignore the community, which makes the situation all the more perplexing. If they want our help then they should run an open beta (assuming the game is in a playable state, if not, it's not our job to code the game).

[kernie]

[QUOTE=Deltoidius;516866]It's kind of hard to stay excited about about a game when there is absolutely zero reporting on the development progress, much less a screenshot or two. If there isn't a committment of the such little time it takes to push print screen and post a picture, or to type up a short development update once a month or so, I find it hard to believe this game is happening anytime in the foreseeable future. If it wasn't for the gameplay quality and good post-release patching of the BBCF game, I would have given up following this pipe dream of a game long ago. My interest in this game has eroded from extremely high to what I would currently describe as ever-fleetingly flaccid. To use an analogy, this has been like when you are watching a porno but the camera keeps cutting to the sweaty guy or the back of the chick's head. This forum has been all sweaty guy so far.[/QUOTE] This post is inacurate. Arlie has posted on the development of this game and you stated there was "zero reporting on the development progress". Obviously to some of the sport text sim fans who make up our section of the internet, the development of this title, and the state of affairs of Greydog is not exactly gonna put the developer up for programmer of the year or this site up for site of the year. There was a time when the Greydog site was a popular hangout for many differet types of sport genre folks, now it appears that this site is now a hangout for wrestling or MMA fans because that developer is most in concert with his customers. Such is the life for small independent developers. by developing a game once every few years these guys developing these titles are not gonna get rich. If Arlie wants to release it with little or no fanfare in 2010 then so be it. Obviously it is not a top priority in his life to do list and thats his call. When and if it comes out there will be threads started at high traffic sites like FOFC central and Totalsportsworld saying that the game was released and the lack of public information from Arlie will be forgotten. Would it help his sales if he popped in every week for an update???? maybe but only slightly, and certainly not as much as some are stating around here. Sites like FOFC and TSW and their loyal visitors will give this title all the promotion it needs within our sim community when it is released and the developers know it.

[southernwebb04]

Delt, I do see exactly the proper business relationship, and know how to run a business quite successfully. Now, would I lose customers because I didn't keep them up to date on a certain situation pertaining them? Hell yes I would. This is a whole lot different though. That's what I think you might not understand, and I feel kernie said it best; [QUOTE]Such is the life for small independent developers. by developing a game once every few years these guys developing these titles are not gonna get rich. If Arlie wants to release it with little or no fanfare in 2010 then so be it. Obviously it is not a top priority in his life to do list and thats his call. [/QUOTE]

[Meat]

[QUOTE=Deltoidius;516866]To use an analogy, this has been like when you are watching a porno but the camera keeps cutting to the sweaty guy or the back of the chick's head. This forum has been all sweaty guy so far.[/QUOTE] This is FUNNY though!

[Astil]

[QUOTE=Deltoidius;518200]Lol, brilliant analogy, Fanboy. I'm sure that's happened to everyone a few times in their life, so we can all relate to that really well. There is a difference between whining for food because your tummy is hungry, and whining for food because you are suffering from starvation. You fail to see the proper business relationship here. We are the customers and they are the business. Their success and our satisfaction are both determined by how well they accommodate our demands. It's in both of our best interest for them to not ignore the community, which makes the situation all the more perplexing. If they want our help then they should run an open beta (assuming the game is in a playable state, if not, it's not our job to code the game).[/QUOTE] How many games have you coded?

[NeoMetsFan]

I am in no way interested in this game, but I happened upon this thread, and I have to say that Deltoidius your point is perfectly valid, and anybody whose bashing you by committing various logical fallacies doesn't understand simple economics.

[silvam14]

The OP has a valid point. For those who don't care to read someone whining on this forum, you may as well not bother to poke in here because that is all there is to do. Oh, unless you want to knoe how Arlie's floors are coming, sorry. I was a frequent visitor here when this game was first announced (I actually have this site bookmarked, until today) and as I've posted before, he should just have removed the forum if the game is nowhere near completion. No buzz, no screenies, pretty much no updates in 2 years means no sale for this guy. Lucky are those who just happen to stumble onto this site when/if the game gets released and who don't have to put up with 2 years of nothing. I realize I have not lost a thing here as I didn't buy anything except for Arlie's word that the game is not vaporware. I can take comfort in that, and also that I won't be buying this game and instead can purchase Wolverine Studio's game instead which I will guarantee come out before this one (even though they just announced it was delayed) For the people here defending Arlie and who see this particular sub-forum as anything more than a complete joke, I sympathize with you all. I really do. I hope you don't get jerked around for 2 more years. Peace out.

[G-Prime]

God, it looks like the Fast Break Basketball forum in here.

[ashantewarrier]

[QUOTE=silvam14;525730]The OP has a valid point. For those who don't care to read someone whining on this forum, you may as well not bother to poke in here because that is all there is to do. Oh, unless you want to knoe how Arlie's floors are coming, sorry. I was a frequent visitor here when this game was first announced (I actually have this site bookmarked, until today) and as I've posted before, he should just have removed the forum if the game is nowhere near completion. No buzz, no screenies, pretty much no updates in 2 years means no sale for this guy. Lucky are those who just happen to stumble onto this site when/if the game gets released and who don't have to put up with 2 years of nothing. I realize I have not lost a thing here as I didn't buy anything except for Arlie's word that the game is not vaporware. I can take comfort in that, and also that I won't be buying this game and instead can purchase Wolverine Studio's game instead which I will guarantee come out before this one (even though they just announced it was delayed) For the people here defending Arlie and who see this particular sub-forum as anything more than a complete joke, I sympathize with you all. I really do. I hope you don't get jerked around for 2 more years. Peace out.[/QUOTE] This forum is a joke. The supposedly development of this game is a joke. I too was around when the plans for development of this game was announced two years ago. My God! My son was not even born yet when the announcement was made and he is now two. GDS this is not the way to do business. You should take notes from your competitors Out of the Park Baseball and Wolverine Studios. BTW- Considering the lack of updates can you imagine if this game was released and needed to be patched? The lack of support? Sheesh! I too am signing out!!! Peace! :(

[Buffalo2006]

Well, I'll say this much. I know that Arlie has put out some excellent games in the past, including BBCF which is the best football game I've played. I understand the frustration here, but I'll keep waiting, knowing that the game will be worth every minute (or year :D) of it. I would kill for an update though

[Guest Nukester]

Last I heard, the game was going to be bundled with Duke Nukem Forever and Grimore

[scorpion]

Wow, people getting so upset over a game. You guys do realize this happens in all facets of business. Movies get announced, then production gets delayed, some never come out. clearly if there was an important update, there would be one. The advantage of announcing a game is that you get some buzz, the disadvantage is that if things get delayed you get people harping on you like this. I imagine this is why another programmer of football games never announces that he is doing a new game until the day before he releases it. He may not get the buzz, but he doesn't get the headaches either. If and when this game is released I'm sure their will be plenty of promotion and I'm sure it's sales will be fine. Could you imagine people saying they won't go see a movie because it was supposed to be released this summer and got delayed till next summer? Anyway... In other news Chinese Democracy is being released...

[Buffalo2006]

[QUOTE=scorpion;528226] In other news Chinese Democracy is being released...[/QUOTE] FINALLY!!!!!

[Arlie Rahn]

There's just not much to update people on right now. When I get to a point where I can, I will post threads here and in other forums letting people know. As it is now, I'd recommend checking in about once a week until you see more activity from me. At that point, it would be more worth your time to come here more frequently. I understand that this frustrates some people, but that's the situation right now.

[gambler1650]

Just have to say that I've been getting the itch to play Total Pro Football again, but unfortunately can't. The computer I have it on is more or less dead, and because of licensing issues I can't reload the game on my new computer. My reason for posting here is that I first wanted to say what a great game I thought Total Pro Football was. Yup, there were some minor issues, but it had a wonderful interface, and with the various records and all stats being kept it really felt like a _real_ football universe (something that the more text based/spreadsheet like sims never quite managed to pull off for me). I REALLY liked the way players were scouted, drafted and developed. It was just about at the perfect level of detail for me. Too much more and it would have been chore like, too much less and I would have wanted more. The draft was the center piece of the game as far as I was concerned. As kind of a reminder of what made things great about Arlie's first game, I dug up my old notebook. I had created a "World League" in which 16 teams were from the NFL (mostly the 'classic' NFL/AFL teams) and 16 were 'world' teams, with a background story that the NFL collapsed and was bought out by a consortium of 'world buyers'. I dug up some helmets for the teams, changed the names, and off I went, simming 10 years or so before I took over the Amsterdam Admirals. It actually mirrored the early NFL/AFL days when the NFL teams won the first 2 Super Bowls, only to see (in an ironically symbolic meeting), the Paris Musketeers defeat the Washington Redskins in World Bowl III. Unlike other sims, I found myself getting attached to the players. I was even dealt a surprising blow in the first season when one of the truly great players in the league retired from the Admirals at the top of his game (after maybe 5 years in the league). I realize there's probably a certain temptation to build upon what was done for Total Pro Football and make it even more complex and detailed in areas, but I honestly think that Total Pro Football had a lot right, and I'm looking forward to seeing what Arlie comes up with for his new Pro Game.

[Scott Vibert]

An email to Grey Dog tech support may be able to assist licensing issues.

[gambler1650]

Scott, Thanks for the advice. I did pop off a quick message to tech support. It's not a huge issue for me, as my main purpose of the above was to express my continuing interest in this project and my hopes that what made Arlie's first effort so good, makes it through into the pro game...