Lack of Psychology/Lack of Flow Notes

[Foxcutter]

Okay, I'm not sure if this is a bug, or if I've somehow lost the plot along the way somewhere, but I was wondering if somebody might clarify a note that I'm getting in the game. I'm up to date with the latest patch (the November 24th one) and, lately, I've been getting the following message in my Road Agent Notes: "The match suffered from a lack of psychology, it really could have used somebody with the knowledge of how to construct a proper flow." The message seemingly only occurs after my AAA Femme Fatale title bouts (the prestige of which is at 100%) and even if all the participants involved in the match have at least a C+ in Psychology and the Road Agent, who happens to be scripting the match, has an A*. Nowhere else, during the course of my card, do I receive notes like this (and I have some people on my roster with significantly worse Psychology scores than a C+, believe me). Is it because of the title's prestige that people are expecting a better title match than somebody with a C+ in Psychology can give them, or is there something I'm missing? Thanks in advance. Foxcutter.

[Bigpapa42]

Are you using "Call in Ring" or anythign like that? Because with C+ Psychology, you proabably shouldn't be. Also, it can be to do with size. You will often see news stories about interviews with workers where they mention certain things - they don't like opening matches, they don't like working with smaller opponents, etc. It can be something like that.

[Derek B]

It also depends on the length of the match in question. Even if you try to script a very long match you will find that the workers involved can't do it. Remembering 20 minutes of stuff just ain't easy, which is why scripting is best used on shorter matches.

[Foxcutter]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;534688]Are you using "Call in Ring" or anythign like that? Because with C+ Psychology, you proabably shouldn't be. Also, it can be to do with size. You will often see news stories about interviews with workers where they mention certain things - they don't like opening matches, they don't like working with smaller opponents, etc. It can be something like that.[/QUOTE] Nope. I'm scripting it (in point of fact, for major matches, unless I know the wrestlers have good chemistry together and psychology ratings of B- and up, I always end up scripting it). My user character (who I use as a Road Agent) has an A* in Psychology and yet, apparently, whenever the strap is on the line, the wrestlers involved (each with psychologies of C+ and good Performance Skills overall (C+ and above)) just choke. Here are the people involved in the title hunt (any insight would be appreciated): [U]Amber Allen[/U] (Performance Skills): [B]BASICS[/B]:B [B]PSYCHOLOGY[/B]: C+ [B]SAFETY[/B]: B [B]CONSISTENCY[/B]: A [B]SELLING[/B]: B+ [U]Joanne Rodriguez[/U] (Performance Skills): [B]BASICS[/B]:B+ [B]PSYCHOLOGY[/B]: C+ [B]SAFETY[/B]: A* [B]CONSISTENCY[/B]: A [B]SELLING[/B]: B [U]Katherine Goodlooks[/U] (Performance Skills): [B]BASICS[/B]:B+ [B]PSYCHOLOGY[/B]: C+ [B]SAFETY[/B]: B+ [B]CONSISTENCY[/B]: A [B]SELLING[/B]: B- And the Road Agent is my user character, Kitty Cates: [B]BASICS[/B]:A [B]PSYCHOLOGY[/B]: A* [B]SAFETY[/B]: A* [B]CONSISTENCY[/B]: A* [B]SELLING[/B]: A* Her Booking Skill is C- (if that makes any difference). I just don't get it. The only thing I can figure is that the people are expecting better performers for a title with a 100% prestige (because, any other match, or any other title, I don't get the aforementioned note). It's just odd, if the title isn't on the line, a match between any of these wrestlers can bring the crowd to it's feet. As soon as it's for the title, the fans go home disappointed. Foxcutter. P. S. Oh, and to answer your question, no, the only two people who might have an issue and might bring down the score are Jamie Quine (who prefers working opening bouts), and Thea Davis (who gets nervous the further up the card she is), both of whom aren't involved in the above storyline. As for the ones mentioned above, I've never received a note on them.

[Foxcutter]

[QUOTE=derek_b;534708]It also depends on the length of the match in question. Even if you try to script a very long match you will find that the workers involved can't do it. Remembering 20 minutes of stuff just ain't easy, which is why scripting is best used on shorter matches.[/QUOTE] Derek, that must be it (it's worth a try, anyway) -- although, I do have to say, I am staying within their Stamina limits (at least, I never got a note that any of them were tired at the end of anything I had booked them in, so I never thought there was a problem). I'll shorten the match and post back. Foxcutter.

[Foxcutter]

Just re-ran the match (shortening it from 25 minutes, down to 20, and then down to 15 -- with both Scripted and Call In Ring Road Agent Notes and still the same old note, unfortunately). :( I'm going to take the title off the line and see if that makes a difference. Foxcutter. P. S. Just took the title off and it makes no difference...still the same old note.

[Derek B]

Have you tried NOT scripting it? Perhaps the crowd are reacting differently from what your roadie would expect and therefore things aren't flowing as they should.

[Foxcutter]

[QUOTE=derek_b;534721]Have you tried NOT scripting it? Perhaps the crowd are reacting differently from what your roadie would expect and therefore things aren't flowing as they should.[/QUOTE] Yes, that's what I mean when I said I tried it both ways: I ran it once with the Scripted note and then again with the Call In Ring note (with all the different time specifications mentioned above). It makes no difference. I even ran it with just a note on who I wanted to win -- nothing changes. But surely two wrestlers (in this case, three) with a C+ in Psychology and the stats I posted above, can have a decent match, can't they? Especially when, as I made mention, there are some people on my undercard putting on E+ matches (and who have significantly worse Performance stats), who don't get the same note and penalties? I just don't get it. Foxcutter.

[Derek B]

I give up then. I rarely get those notes except for guys with low C or less psychology. But then, I rarely use matches longer than 15 mintues in my promotions so it might just be that.

[Foxcutter]

I give up too and think it has to be a bug and I'll report it as such. Thanks for all the help, though. Foxcutter. P. S. As a last resort, I just ran the match for 5 minutes (3 minutes + 2 minutes of set-up time) and didn't get the note! So it is something to do with the length of the match and the ability of the characters to "remember" the details of the fight. Though, strangely, even though I didn't get the note, I still got the same score: a C (not very impressive for two International Workers and a National Worker with respective C popularities in the area that I'm working in and fighting for a title with an A* prestige attached to it). I don't know, this just seems wrong to me, somehow -- unless, of course, I'm missing something.

[lazorbeak]

First, it's all about match length; that's why you were getting the note. I haven't played as AAA in 08, but with larger promotions I get a "drift" note or worse whenever I put two guys with B-'s or worse in the ring together with more than 10 minutes to the segment. But if you're getting very good match-ratings (and a C match rating is very good in an SE promotion where most of the main event has overness in the D's), why do you care? Like a lot of things in this game, there's different gradations of psychology penalties, and the match drifting a little isn't the end of the world. Stamina has nothing to do with psychology, and yes, lack of psychology can become more of a problem the longer a match goes. But like I say, if you're pulling out C rated main events and running long matches, that's fine. Just because you got that note doesn't mean it wasn't better than an E+ rated match with no note.

[Kovic]

I just got that worst message (match could have used somebody who can create a proper flow or something) out of Enygma (psychology B) and Jack Bruce (Psychology B-) in a 15 minute match.. talk about dissapointment.. Jack Bruce's matches are going be scripted now on

[dPro]

I usually get psycology notes for all of Jack Bruce's matches, unless it's against Faith/gilmore (guys with awsome psycology). That's why I took the title off of him early in my game, and he hasn't touched it since.

[Foxcutter]

[QUOTE=lazorbeak;534771]But if you're getting very good match-ratings (and a C match rating is very good in an SE promotion where most of the main event has overness in the D's), why do you care? [/QUOTE] I care because I want to understand the game mechanics and be rewarded when I put a good card together -- not frustrated. Apparently, I'm not the only one who has given pause to this. While I appreciate the idea of the game as a "game of discovery" -- and not having everything spelt out for you in the instructions or guide that accompanies the game -- this was a bit obscure. Foxcutter.

[Actarus]

This has been mentioned before in previous threads. I actually don't think it's a bug. What I DO think is that there are so many factors that contribute into what makes a good / bad match in TEW (just like in real life!), that it's hard to pinpoint what's the primary culprit when getting that note with two good (even great) workers, a strong road agent, etc. Accepting that it's a combination of factors, I try to think of it in context of...well everything. What's your product? What style of wrestlers are competing? What came before it? It doesn't even have to necessarily be a great match(es) or angle(s) that came before it, but maybe a performer outdid himself / herself beforehand, wowing the crowd, and suddenly they were less impressed with what you'd expect to be a strong match you just booked. I don't know if my ramblings make a lot of sense, and it's probably not what you want to hear, but that's just how I've come to think of this. Luckily, I don't get this note too often, and in the end while I can certainly understand the perfectionist streak you may (or may not) have, on the other hand, don't sweat the small stuff. Look at the big picture: was it successful show? Did you turn a profit? Did you gain popularity in the region? Etc. There are plenty of other details and game mechanics to occupy your time, some more easier to figure out then others. The only person that will probably understand [B]every single[/B] game mechanic is the creator, and I have a hunch that's how he intended it to be. If you can pick up on a good number of them, you're doing fine IMO.

[pepper2008]

In my experience, the higher the card , the bigger the event and the bigger the promotion requires a higher degree of ring psychology. Of course, there are other factors like wrestlers want/hate to fight those bigger wrestlers, debut jitters/excitement, push jitters/excitement. Hi-grade Roadagent is also a factor. I wonder if the referee is also a factor in the match psychology after all he is part of the match. I know that a good/bad referee affects the match rating

[Thomnipotent]

[QUOTE=pepper2008;535413]wrestlers want/hate to fight those bigger wrestlers, debut jitters/excitement, push jitters/excitement.[/QUOTE] I always took this stuff on the news/website area to be flavor text. Does this stuff actually have an impact?

[Comradebot]

[QUOTE=Thomnipotent;535418]I always took this stuff on the news/website area to be flavor text. Does this stuff actually have an impact?[/QUOTE] I've heard it actually does have an effect, and I've even seen a little evidence to suggest its true. In my SWF game, I've seen an internet article stating Jack Bruce doesn't like working with people larger than him... anytime he does wrestle someone larger than him, I get the "lack of psychology" note. Which sucks, since almost everyone else in SWF is bigger than Jack Bruce! But, it could just be a coincidence.

[djthefunkchris]

Actarus is right, in my opinion. There are tons of things that can effect various things in a match (and angle's) that it's very hard to pinpoint the problem down to just one thing. The mention of a smaller match making a difference in that you didn't get the note has to be a clue.... I would also consider the thoughts Actarus had about your product... is the match these two pull off something your audience would appreciate? If the promotion is SE primarily, they probably won't appreciate a slower, realistic type of wrestling match (and vice versa).

[pepper2008]

If you notice wrestlers like Jack Bruce and Wolf Hawkins always hate working against wrestlers bigger than them in every game, and they always seem to have a lack of psychology against such guys. So I guess its part of the programming. However, have anyone have a lack of Psychology involving wrestlers with A and higher Psychology, coz I havent.

[Foxcutter]

[QUOTE=Actarus;535395]This has been mentioned before in previous threads. I actually don't think it's a bug. What I DO think is that there are so many factors that contribute into what makes a good / bad match in TEW (just like in real life!), that it's hard to pinpoint what's the primary culprit when getting that note with two good (even great) workers, a strong road agent, etc. Accepting that it's a combination of factors, I try to think of it in context of...well everything. What's your product? What style of wrestlers are competing? What came before it? It doesn't even have to necessarily be a great match(es) or angle(s) that came before it, but maybe a performer outdid himself / herself beforehand, wowing the crowd, and suddenly they were less impressed with what you'd expect to be a strong match you just booked.[/QUOTE] Understood and thank you -- and to everyone -- in trying to help me understand the mechanics of the game a little more. I guess, like you, I was thinking of the big picture. Here are three workers (each with over ten years experience, two of whom have been fighting in Japan with some of the best female wrestlers on the planet for the past five years and all of whom have been wrestling for the Stone family for equally as long), whose match is being scripted by one of the best road agents on the planet, fighting for a title with 100% prestige, with over a month to memorize and work out the kinks to the match, with the wrestling industry in the country on the upswing (at B- and rising), and they still can't pull off match in my area that would have the wrestling fans in my area of the country talking about it at the water cooler, the next day. I think, understandably, I had the right to wonder what was going on. Having said that, while it may sound like I'm complaining about the game, I'm not (it's my favourite time-waster of all time), I'm just seriously confused, is all. You'd think, given the above, that the three workers in question would've learned something in all of their collective experience over the years but, apparently -- and this is just a recent occurrence, I think...I don't remember previously that any of these workers (who don't have any chemistry issues with each other) have ever received this note when facing each other -- that it might've been something in the latest patch that was causing all this. Anyhow, again, many thanks in helping me trying to unravel the mystery of all of this. Foxcutter.

[Foxcutter]

[QUOTE=pepper2008;535413]In my experience, the higher the card , the bigger the event and the bigger the promotion requires a higher degree of ring psychology. Of course, there are other factors like wrestlers want/hate to fight those bigger wrestlers, debut jitters/excitement, push jitters/excitement. Hi-grade Roadagent is also a factor. I wonder if the referee is also a factor in the match psychology after all he is part of the match. I know that a good/bad referee affects the match rating[/QUOTE] Pepper! Sort of glossed over your comment the first time around. That might be the key, actually! My current referee is severely pissed at me (one frowny face from the bottom) for disciplinary action that I took with him over the preceding months for his constant jackassery backstage. He could be the one sabotaging the flow of the match! Foxcutter.

[James Casey]

Time to ditch him then. One area that the player seems to have an advantage over the AI is that average referees can become outstanding over the course of a contract - iirc, my last referee went from a C to a B+ for his refereeing over his nine month deal (admittedly working up to seven shows a month) while my current ref has jumped at least one grade and maybe two since signing. My only problem is that much improvement makes for a much more expensive worker - and I'm running out of referees I can sign at a reasonable price :p

[Foxcutter]

[QUOTE=James Casey;535662]Time to ditch him then. [/QUOTE] Agreed and looking for replacements as we speak. Fortunately, a fairly decent referee (for my purposes, anyway), Bret Graveson, has been sitting on the shelf since I started my campaign, some six years ago (game time). He should come fairly cheap. Foxcutter.

[pepper2008]

Thats why you hire two referees one for the main match and the second one for the dark matches. The second ref should just develop. Well if you can afford two refs