an MMA what-if

darthsiddus2 · December 29, 2008

what if Fedor emilianenko vs Randy Couture happens? what do you guys predict? I for one would think it would go the distance but I doubt it as I don't believe Fedor even has the conditioning randy does.

however by the looks of it it is never going to happen.

The Masked Orange · December 29, 2008

You have to beleive really hard that it will happen.

Just like you must beleive Randy will win.

Randy will win.

Tyler Gadzinski · December 29, 2008

Everyone thought Randy would be Lesnar.. but looked what happened..

Randy will win this one.(if it happens)

Who do you guys think will win between Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir for the UFC Heavyweight Title? Remember Mir beat Lesnar, in Lesnar's FIRST UFC fight which was dominated by Lesnar most of the time.. and lost by a slip up. Although, both have come a longgg way since there first fight(like 5-6 months ago). It should be a very good and impressive fight.

I'm going Lesnar on that one.

darthsiddus2 · December 29, 2008

Mir's gonna make Lesnar tap... if....IF lesnar has really worked on his game then I believe Lesnar will win

UFC-KING · December 29, 2008

Fedor vs. Randy - Randy Does not tap. And Fedor hasn't really been seen go the distance, Randy via Decision

Mir vs. Lesnar II - Either a Lesnar TKO or a Mir Submission

RennikKain076 · December 29, 2008

UFC KING have you ever seen Fedor's fights with Arona, Nog, Semmy Schilt, and Cro Cop? They all went the distance and Fedor looked great. Also it's been a long time since Randy has been submited but he got sub'd by Valentijn Overeem, Mikhail Illoukhine, and Enson Inoue so it is possible. He has really only fought one dangerous submission guy since 2003 anyway that being Gonzaga his other really tough fights were against Liddell, Belfort, Ortiz, and Sylvia and all of them combined only have 7 submission wins in thier careers Fedor has 16. I'll take Fedor via 2nd round tko if it happens.

I also like Mir via a fourth round submission probably a choke of some kind if he comes in shape if he doesnt have the conditioning I like Lesnar via 3rd round tko.

I've seen that Nog has commented that he'd be happy to fight Couture if the UFC wants to put it on and I recall Dana White saying that the loser's of the two title fights would fight each other sometime in 09 so who do you guys like in that one? It's really close but I think I might go with Nog via Guillotine Choke late in the fight.

VTial · December 29, 2008

Depends on the factors. Assuming Randy fought Fedor when he fought Brock, then definite win for Fedor just due to the time between fights. (I believe him when he said he had no cage rust but his skill implementation weren't up to 100% of what he would have been and against a guy like Brock, it's all around a bad idea)

Assuming Randy has adjusted either through a Nog or Liddell fight and won, then it's 50/50. Take some and give some away based on who gets their preferred fighting arena. Fedor already admitted he's wary of the cage. Randy has already shown that he's still not that great on his back to adjust to the benefits of the ring. He's better than Tim at gameplanning but look how big that proximity kept Tim from really going the distance with Fedor.

Mir vs. Lesnar - 88% to Brock via everything. 12% to Mir via avoiding Brock's power and speed. I am rooting for Mir though but he can't come in to this fight like he did with Nog and as someone from Sherdog said, Mir just gave Brock one of the strategies to beat him because he and Nog are alike so what Mir did to Nog, Brock can potentially do to Mir.

Mir also can't submit Brock from anywhere but the lower body with ease but Brock also now have the striking and at least better Jiu Jitsu to make it more difficult for Mir so it's really going to be how Mir pulls off a Ryo Chonan in this fight IMO. Just really bad all around set up for Mir because if he survives Brock, then he has to deal with Kongo next most likely and then deal with either Carwin or Gonzaga so... right now Mir doesn't have the physical attributes to just take those fights without a diverse set of differing gameplans...but this is why I want Frank Mir as the champion in the first place: I like legitimate champions who are forced to prove themselves beyond their physical capabilities.

You also can't take away the possibility of Randy moving down to LHW now that Forrest isn't champion. People say the LHW is the most diverse and stacked at the top of all MMA divisions but every one of those fighters looks better for Randy than any HW contender right now for him.

Rashad/Rampage are better Kevin Randleman and Randy fought Kevin when people thought no one could out muscle Kevin's top game and both fighters haven't had their guard game tested that much. The odds still don't favor Randy but compared to Brock/Barnett? Much more comfortable fight.

Rampage vs. Wand pretty much has now given the platform for Randy to have a fight with Liddell for the 4th time. Let's face it, both of Liddell's wins were dubious and not making excuses for Randy but the people that have beaten Chuck are still borderline elites. With the exception of Jardine, Chuck has lost to power punchers. Something Randy has developed somewhat to make up for his slower reflexes. Jardine can also be said to be a purer striker than Randy so this can easily go Randy's way.

Randy vs. Machida. Again good fight for Randy. This is like Forrest vs. Machida with less running away by Forrest to a decision. This will also be Machida's most aggressive fight if this ever happened. Randy is not a pure power puncher, has better footwork than Tito and who's primary weakness is being on his back. Just bad bad match up for Randy.

Randy vs. Anderson. Same thing with Machida. Randy has shown he can take a knee from Brock. The only big question is whether Randy can avoid being hit in the area behind the ear which Anderson hasn't really shown much attempts of so you're going to either see a better Anderson or Randy Couture gets to fight another day again.

UFC-KING · December 29, 2008

UFC KING have you ever seen Fedor's fights with Arona, Nog, Semmy Schilt, and Cro Cop? They all went the distance and Fedor looked great. Also it's been a long time since Randy has been submited but he got sub'd by Valentijn Overeem, Mikhail Illoukhine, and Enson Inoue so it is possible. He has really only fought one dangerous submission guy since 2003 anyway that being Gonzaga his other really tough fights were against Liddell, Belfort, Ortiz, and Sylvia and all of them combined only have 7 submission wins in thier careers Fedor has 16. I'll take Fedor via 2nd round tko if it happens. 1

To Be honest, I'm not a big Fedor Fan, So I don't really pay attention to the guy's fights All I can say is.

1. It's not all that hard to stand up and fight with Nogueira, Mir did it, and he doesn't have the stand up that Fedor Has.

2. Semmy Schilt was taken down, and with a K-1 Kickboxer, usually they aren't going to offer much submission abilities, and although I haven't seen the Cro Cop fight, I assume that's what happened.

3. Arona, is a lay and pray fighter, he is nowhere near the caliber of Fedor, and I'm guessing Fedor used some boxing to counter punch and keep Arona at bay.

Fedor hasn't gone the distance with somebody who will test him. Guys like : Couture, Brock, and hell even Mir would test him. I doubt that Fedor could fight them like he fought the others.

GatorBait19 · December 29, 2008

I didn't see the Lesnar vs Mir fight, but one of my friends said that Mir got lucky with the ankle lock and that Lesnar was pounding Mir

Capelli King · December 29, 2008

For some reason people underestimate Fedor, considering he has never lost and was Prides champ for ages, it surprises me. People were saying Sylvia hd a chance...................not sure, he had a chance for 30 seconds:rolleyes:

People seem to think that Fedor is just submissions or something, do not know where that came from to say the truth.

UFC-KING · December 29, 2008

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Capelli King" data-cite="Capelli King" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>For some reason people underestimate Fedor, considering he has never lost and was Prides champ for ages, it surprises me. People were saying Sylvia hd a chance...................not sure, he had a chance for 30 seconds:rolleyes: People seem to think that Fedor is just submissions or something, do not know where that came from to say the truth.</div></blockquote> With a guy like Sylvia against Fedor, it's not a good idea to pick Sylvia Although It was shocking to see him dispatch of Sylvia that quickly, I wasn't in the least bit of ways. Sylvia has been going down hill lately, he's 1-3 in his last 4 fights, and his win hasn't been impressive Personally I think Fedor is overrated, I really don't like the guy for some reason, never have, probably never will. He's got striking, but I think when he fights top competition and starts fighting in a cage, he will follow the likes of Rua, Cro Cop and Wanderlei and crumble under the in-ability of getting used to the elbows, and the differences of the ring. I honestly truly think that the guy isn't all that great and that he's ducking the UFC. Just my 2 cents anyways.

RennikKain076 · December 29, 2008

Capelli King the only reason I can think people would sell Fedor short is because they dont know anything about Fedor or for that matter most of the guys that came over from PRIDE or the other promotions in Japan.

UFC KING I must disagree with you again how did Shogun and Wand crumble under the inability to handle elbows? Wand lost a competitve decision to Chuck, he destroyed Jardine, and got KO'd by Page I dont remember any of those guys using elbows on him. As Far as Shogun goes he came in out of shape and fought a dangerous fighter with everything to gain by beating him.

I really dont think Fedor is ducking the UFC, what is there to duck about the HW division of the UFC lol. Gonzaga is good but he breaks under heavy fire, Carwin and Cain Valzquez are still a year or two away from fighting Fedor, Lesnar is good but he's still a raw rookie with a skill set that is far from as impressive as Fedor's, Couture is a very interesting match but beyond cutting Fedor I cant see him winning it, and Mir looked great vs Nog but he just admited in a interview a week or two ago that he thinks Fedor is a better fighter than him in everyway and he doesnt think he could beat Fedor right now. I think the Arlovski and possible Barnett fights are both more interesting at this point than any fight the UFC could offer. Fedor is also 6-0 over former UFC champs if he beats Arlovski he'll be 7-0 so I dont think he has any reason to fear fighting in the UFC.

Finally Big Tim got destroyed by Fedor but I dont think he's gone down that bad. He lost to Couture while he had a bad back that required surgury after the fight and he dominated Nog until it the ground. I actually think Tim would beat most the HW division in the UFC at this point. I'd take Nog, Couture, and maybe Mir to beat him thats about it.

UFC-KING · December 29, 2008

Sorry, I meant to rephrase that, Wand was able to get used to elbows, as he was in the UFC before, as for the Shogun Situation, we will have to wait until he fights Coleman. However if you look at most fighters that have come from PRIDE to fight with the UFC (Cro Cop, Was unable to get used to the elbows against Gonzaga) Shogun did not come into the fight out of fighting condition, he just got outclassed in the fight against Forrest.

Wand is getting old, he's been knocked out 3 times in his past 5 fights, and only won once. Again with Shogun, I think he came into the fight overrated. The Reality is, Shogun wasn't used to the cage, he spent the majority of the fight on the defensive and was unable to put pressure on Forrest.

VTial · December 30, 2008

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RennikKain076" data-cite="RennikKain076" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Capelli King the only reason I can think people would sell Fedor short is because they dont know anything about Fedor or for that matter most of the guys that came over from PRIDE or the other promotions in Japan.</div></blockquote> In this case, it's true since he did admit he didn't pay attention to Fedor's fight with Nog and really comparing the Nog that fought Mir with the one that fought Fedor is just inaccurate. I believe Mir would have still won that fight if the Nog of the 1st Fedor fight was fighting in the UFC and Mir used this strategy but it would have been more competitive at least. 5th round, unanimous decision. As far as selling Fedor short: It's because he's overrated. He's not even the modern equivalent of GSP and Anderson Silva in his prime. It was just that the Pride division liked to feed cans to build it's fighter and Fedor just happened to be like the Luiz Cane or Junior Dos Santos of that division, of that time and he surprised a then overrated Heath Herring who was an above average fighter but a somewhat dirty veteran gritty fighter who tends to come into fights while severely underrating his opponents' MMA-ness. (if that makes sense) Let's just say he treats strikers as people who can't hang with him on the ground and ground specialists as people who can't strike with him and when you're a Jack of all Trades yourself, you're asking for an upset against Fedor (...and Nog) So Fedor now beats this guy Heath Herring who at the time only looked good because Pride doesn't have a good #2 yet in their HW division and Fedor came into the Nog fight highly underrated. (worse than Mir odds) Fedor did the right thing. Followed Dan Henderson's game plan while also using his size advantage and ground striking proficiency to "Ricco" Nog. Fedor was slightly overrated then because Nog was billed as the top HW of the world. Ok, that's not bad. It's when he pretty much fought cans and a UFC reject in Kevin Randleman who came into a fight just wanting to spike Fedor that he became overrated and padded his undefeated streak. Ask any UFC champions whether they would get this luxury if a better fighter was lying in wait for them and often times it only happens when a fighter fights well but hasn't shown the skills to beat the champ like a Yushin Okami that this happens. Fedor though would have been fresh meat against Nog and Pride knew this so they sold Fedor and Fedor being an intelligent fighter also improved his overall game during this period. Wouldn't have happened in a legit org. It would be one thing if Fedor fought decent competition but the opponents he fought favored him and it was only because he was a good but not invincible fighter that he didn't get Kimbo Slice'd. Finally they gave him Nog who was in a downturn and had been well deserving of a rematch considering he was the former champion and they were favoring a Nog win which would set up a trilogy but the cut happened and they let both fight again. This sounds good in theory but this is actually horrible. Same reason why I didn't want Rampage to get an instant rematch. This is basically giving the winning fighter extra time to better scout and improve their gameplan while the losing fighter would be mentally in trouble. This isn't always bad but as you can see in that fight, Nog really had no business fighting Fedor that soon. The outcome before the cut was pretty clear so you could have easily given Nog another fighter and Fedor a new challenger. Didn't happen. This wouldn't make him so overrated if his previous opponents were of note but they weren't. To make things worse, Fedor fought a long overdue Crocop where he had 6 months of training and Mirko only had 3. Wouldn't be bad if stylistically and mentally, Crocop was overrated compared to Fedor and had just been knocking out cans. At this point, Fedor could have redeemed himself if he fought a legitimate contender in Barnett but Pride likes to throw some tourneys and other bookings that mess up rankings in favor of entertainment and well...Fedor fought opponents he should've beaten...except if he was truly God-like, he would have dominated them. Mark Hunt anyone? Really, a striker gets away with a Kimura and the guy remains a God because he fought a newbie to the game by elite standards and who was the only fighter that wasn't pretty much made to look like they were holding off on his title shot and he looks like crap? Then Fedor made even worse things. HMC under "Special rules"? That's like Randy saying, ok I'll fight Brock but he can't GnP me. Finally he fought a Tim Sylvia that had no business fighting him since he lost to Nog and "Rampage'd" him and he's God again? Sorry, you don't hear many people saying that to Rampage after his KO of Silva. The fact is, Fedor hasn't really fought an opponent that would be like a Forrest, a Randy or a Florian, Mir, Fitch, GSP, Penn, Serra, Anderson, Leben to him and that's where the current UFC HW division has. Not this guy called AA that already lost to Tim or this guy Josh Barnett that hasn't fought top competition as well so that he's actually not as good as he might've been but only possess the chance to beat Fedor outside of the UFC... (and if you haven't noticed, Barnett is still getting the same treatment Nog and Crocop had where the guy that could possibly beat him is made to wait for a well deserving title shot in the hopes that Fedor improves and Barnett declines) <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Gonzaga is good but he breaks under heavy fire</div></blockquote> ...except Fedor hasn't fought anyone with a ground game that doesn't break except for a Nog which let's face it, uses his chin to block punches leaving him susceptible to unanimous decisions while Gonzaga not only has the ground game but has the HK of a Crocop in his prime and wouldn't mind taking Fedor down when he gets in close unlike Crocop. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Carwin and Cain Valzquez are still a year or two away from fighting Fedor</div></blockquote> Still better than Lindland, HMC, Coleman and Randleman when they fought Fedor. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Lesnar is good but he's still a raw rookie with a skill set that is far from as impressive as Fedor's</div></blockquote> Yet HMC is ok right? and besides Nog and Crocop, everyone who Fedor fought in the past can have a high chance of challenging Lesnar right? Cause you know Brock is such a newb. He fought a better Heath Herring in his 3rd fight and beat him and actually dared to fight the guy Fedor's management didn't want any business of, but sure, Fedor is so impressive. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Couture is a very interesting match but beyond cutting Fedor I cant see him winning it</div></blockquote> Don't worry. Most people also thought beyond cutting them, he couldn't beat Gonzaga, Vitor, Randleman, Rizzo rematch, Sylvia, Chuck and Tito. Boy did he prove the fans right. Let's use Randy Couture as the person the so-called best HW in MMA shouldn't fight cause you know he has constantly failed to step up to the plate. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>and Mir looked great vs Nog but he just admited in a interview a week or two ago that he thinks Fedor is a better fighter than him in everyway and he doesnt think he could beat Fedor right now.</div></blockquote> Mir also admitted he couldn't beat Nog. Boy, was Mir such a coward! Accepting a fight he couldn't win and dominating that person cause he thought he couldn't beat his opponent. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think the Arlovski and possible Barnett fights are both more interesting at this point than any fight the UFC could offer. Fedor is also 6-0 over former UFC champs if he beats Arlovski he'll be 7-0 so I dont think he has any reason to fear fighting in the UFC.</div></blockquote> AA also lost to Tim and Tim also lost to Nog and Mark and Kevin were also on the downturn especially Randleman who got flash KO'ed on the ground while fighting LHW but let's pad Fedor's record more shall we? In other news, we should also not feed Brock to Mir in his 2nd pro fight and to Randy in his 3rd pro fight cause that would make him "undeserving" of fighting Fedor and Nog shouldn't fight Mir, he should just be fed cans until his rematch with Sylvia and Randy should fight men as old as him while every once in a while, giving guys that were long overdue for title shots so they'll all be Gods <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20895" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Finally Big Tim got destroyed by Fedor but I dont think he's gone down that bad. He lost to Couture while he had a bad back that required surgury after the fight and he dominated Nog until it the ground. I actually think Tim would beat most the HW division in the UFC at this point. I'd take Nog, Couture, and maybe Mir to beat him thats about it.</div></blockquote> 1) Tim having a bad back isn't as bad as Randy having a broken arm against Gonzaga. Timmy made a bad move because his boxing was overrated outside of jabs and he payed for it twice in Randy and Fedor. 2) If you get dominated by Nog when it hits the ground: chances are you're not the best and shouldn't be fighting a person like Fedor after coming off that lost. 3) Tim has no ground game and would also be easy pickings for Carwin, Velasquez, Dos Santos, Eddie Sanchez, Kongo, Hardonk, etc. The problem with Timmeh isn't that he's a bad fighter. It's just that he lost his KO power a long time ago and rather than improve his technique, he relied on great TD defense and long range jabs when he should have been looking at how fellow MFS fighters Matt Hughes and Jens Pulver were losing their luster FAST. Tim Sylvia right now is in a real bad place and he would have deteriorated fast if he didn't leave the UFC because every UFC HW contender right now is like Frank Mir when he lost to him with better stand-up that he couldn't get away with what he did to Ricco and Arlovski is fighting way too cautious during his UFC run that he couldn't lure AA to another wildman counter KO.

RennikKain076 · December 30, 2008

Sorry, I meant to rephrase that, Wand was able to get used to elbows, as he was in the UFC before, as for the Shogun Situation, we will have to wait until he fights Coleman. However if you look at most fighters that have come from PRIDE to fight with the UFC (Cro Cop, Was unable to get used to the elbows against Gonzaga) Shogun did not come into the fight out of fighting condition, he just got outclassed in the fight against Forrest.

Wand is getting old, he's been knocked out 3 times in his past 5 fights, and only won once. Again with Shogun, I think he came into the fight overrated. The Reality is, Shogun wasn't used to the cage, he spent the majority of the fight on the defensive and was unable to put pressure on Forrest.

I agree with most of this but Shogun wasnt in prime condition for this fight im not saying the outcome wouldve changed had he been in great shape but I think it wouldve been less one sided. I think he took Griffin lightly and didnt train as hard as he should have for the fight but thats his own fault. Watch some of his fights over seas and you can clearly tell that he wasnt in as good of shape.

I agree about Wand he's been more vunerable to the KO ever since Mirko sent his head into the 10th row lol. And I think his skill progression just hasnt kept up with some of the other guys like Rashad and Page.

RennikKain076 · December 30, 2008

In this case, it's true since he did admit he didn't pay attention to Fedor's fight with Nog and really comparing the Nog that fought Mir with the one that fought Fedor is just inaccurate. I believe Mir would have still won that fight if the Nog of the 1st Fedor fight was fighting in the UFC and Mir used this strategy but it would have been more competitive at least. 5th round, unanimous decision.

As far as selling Fedor short: It's because he's overrated. He's not even the modern equivalent of GSP and Anderson Silva in his prime. It was just that the Pride division liked to feed cans to build it's fighter and Fedor just happened to be like the Luiz Cane or Junior Dos Santos of that division, of that time and he surprised a then overrated Heath Herring who was an above average fighter but a somewhat dirty veteran gritty fighter who tends to come into fights while severely underrating his opponents' MMA-ness. (if that makes sense)

Let's just say he treats strikers as people who can't hang with him on the ground and ground specialists as people who can't strike with him and when you're a Jack of all Trades yourself, you're asking for an upset against Fedor (...and Nog)

So Fedor now beats this guy Heath Herring who at the time only looked good because Pride doesn't have a good #2 yet in their HW division and Fedor came into the Nog fight highly underrated. (worse than Mir odds)

Fedor did the right thing. Followed Dan Henderson's game plan while also using his size advantage and ground striking proficiency to "Ricco" Nog. Fedor was slightly overrated then because Nog was billed as the top HW of the world. Ok, that's not bad.

It's when he pretty much fought cans and a UFC reject in Kevin Randleman who came into a fight just wanting to spike Fedor that he became overrated and padded his undefeated streak.

Ask any UFC champions whether they would get this luxury if a better fighter was lying in wait for them and often times it only happens when a fighter fights well but hasn't shown the skills to beat the champ like a Yushin Okami that this happens.

Fedor though would have been fresh meat against Nog and Pride knew this so they sold Fedor and Fedor being an intelligent fighter also improved his overall game during this period. Wouldn't have happened in a legit org.

It would be one thing if Fedor fought decent competition but the opponents he fought favored him and it was only because he was a good but not invincible fighter that he didn't get Kimbo Slice'd.

Finally they gave him Nog who was in a downturn and had been well deserving of a rematch considering he was the former champion and they were favoring a Nog win which would set up a trilogy but the cut happened and they let both fight again.

This sounds good in theory but this is actually horrible. Same reason why I didn't want Rampage to get an instant rematch. This is basically giving the winning fighter extra time to better scout and improve their gameplan while the losing fighter would be mentally in trouble. This isn't always bad but as you can see in that fight, Nog really had no business fighting Fedor that soon. The outcome before the cut was pretty clear so you could have easily given Nog another fighter and Fedor a new challenger.

Didn't happen. This wouldn't make him so overrated if his previous opponents were of note but they weren't.

To make things worse, Fedor fought a long overdue Crocop where he had 6 months of training and Mirko only had 3. Wouldn't be bad if stylistically and mentally, Crocop was overrated compared to Fedor and had just been knocking out cans.

At this point, Fedor could have redeemed himself if he fought a legitimate contender in Barnett but Pride likes to throw some tourneys and other bookings that mess up rankings in favor of entertainment and well...Fedor fought opponents he should've beaten...except if he was truly God-like, he would have dominated them.

Mark Hunt anyone? Really, a striker gets away with a Kimura and the guy remains a God because he fought a newbie to the game by elite standards and who was the only fighter that wasn't pretty much made to look like they were holding off on his title shot and he looks like crap?

Then Fedor made even worse things. HMC under "Special rules"? That's like Randy saying, ok I'll fight Brock but he can't GnP me.

Finally he fought a Tim Sylvia that had no business fighting him since he lost to Nog and "Rampage'd" him and he's God again? Sorry, you don't hear many people saying that to Rampage after his KO of Silva.

The fact is, Fedor hasn't really fought an opponent that would be like a Forrest, a Randy or a Florian, Mir, Fitch, GSP, Penn, Serra, Anderson, Leben to him and that's where the current UFC HW division has. Not this guy called AA that already lost to Tim or this guy Josh Barnett that hasn't fought top competition as well so that he's actually not as good as he might've been but only possess the chance to beat Fedor outside of the UFC... (and if you haven't noticed, Barnett is still getting the same treatment Nog and Crocop had where the guy that could possibly beat him is made to wait for a well deserving title shot in the hopes that Fedor improves and Barnett declines)

...except Fedor hasn't fought anyone with a ground game that doesn't break except for a Nog which let's face it, uses his chin to block punches leaving him susceptible to unanimous decisions while Gonzaga not only has the ground game but has the HK of a Crocop in his prime and wouldn't mind taking Fedor down when he gets in close unlike Crocop.

Still better than Lindland, HMC, Coleman and Randleman when they fought Fedor.

Yet HMC is ok right? and besides Nog and Crocop, everyone who Fedor fought in the past can have a high chance of challenging Lesnar right? Cause you know Brock is such a newb. He fought a better Heath Herring in his 3rd fight and beat him and actually dared to fight the guy Fedor's management didn't want any business of, but sure, Fedor is so impressive.

Don't worry. Most people also thought beyond cutting them, he couldn't beat Gonzaga, Vitor, Randleman, Rizzo rematch, Sylvia, Chuck and Tito. Boy did he prove the fans right. Let's use Randy Couture as the person the so-called best HW in MMA shouldn't fight cause you know he has constantly failed to step up to the plate.

Mir also admitted he couldn't beat Nog. Boy, was Mir such a coward! Accepting a fight he couldn't win and dominating that person cause he thought he couldn't beat his opponent.

AA also lost to Tim and Tim also lost to Nog and Mark and Kevin were also on the downturn especially Randleman who got flash KO'ed on the ground while fighting LHW but let's pad Fedor's record more shall we?

In other news, we should also not feed Brock to Mir in his 2nd pro fight and to Randy in his 3rd pro fight cause that would make him "undeserving" of fighting Fedor and Nog shouldn't fight Mir, he should just be fed cans until his rematch with Sylvia and Randy should fight men as old as him while every once in a while, giving guys that were long overdue for title shots so they'll all be Gods

1) Tim having a bad back isn't as bad as Randy having a broken arm against Gonzaga. Timmy made a bad move because his boxing was overrated outside of jabs and he payed for it twice in Randy and Fedor.

2) If you get dominated by Nog when it hits the ground: chances are you're not the best and shouldn't be fighting a person like Fedor after coming off that lost.

3) Tim has no ground game and would also be easy pickings for Carwin, Velasquez, Dos Santos, Eddie Sanchez, Kongo, Hardonk, etc.

The problem with Timmeh isn't that he's a bad fighter. It's just that he lost his KO power a long time ago and rather than improve his technique, he relied on great TD defense and long range jabs when he should have been looking at how fellow MFS fighters Matt Hughes and Jens Pulver were losing their luster FAST.

Tim Sylvia right now is in a real bad place and he would have deteriorated fast if he didn't leave the UFC because every UFC HW contender right now is like Frank Mir when he lost to him with better stand-up that he couldn't get away with what he did to Ricco and Arlovski is fighting way too cautious during his UFC run that he couldn't lure AA to another wildman counter KO.

I dont even know where to start I quit reading after you said Eddie Sanchez and Antoni Hardonk would handle Sylvia with ease I really hope you werent serious. I agree that Fedor hasnt always fought the best competition but he's done pretty well against the ones he has faced. The can argument needs to stop anyway his next two fights are AA who even Dana White admits he would love to have back, and Josh Barnett who has beaten some very good HW's in his day I think thats a couple of tough days at work for anybody. Who knows assuming he wins both of those fights maybe he will go to the UFC and fight lets just kick back and enjoy quality MMA all around.

I'd also like to clear up the comment about the Mir interview I didnt mean it to sound like Mir is afriad to fight Fedor or that he thinks Fedor would kill him. It was a great sign of respect from a quality fighter like Mir to Fedor he acknowledged that at this time he feels Fedor is the best at HW and his personal goal is to become better than Fedor. It's not cowardice it's intelligence to scout the top guy at your division and admit where he has you beat at so you can improve your weaknesses. Just like he did with Nog he put his pride aside and admited to himself that Nog had him beat in everyway so he worked on his entire game really hard to pass Nog's skills and it paid off.

I dont know about everyone else but I picked Randy to beat Gonzaga, Tito, Randleman, Vitor the 2nd and 3rd times ( I wasnt watching MMA back at UFC 14 or 15 when they first fought though I have seen the fight on tape) he did surprise me against Chuck and Sylvia. Dude Fedor hasnt ever lost minus the TK cut so saying that he has constanly failed to step up to the plate is absolutly laughable.

D.O. · December 30, 2008

In this case, it's true since he did admit he didn't pay attention to Fedor's fight with Nog and really comparing the Nog that fought Mir with the one that fought Fedor is just inaccurate. I believe Mir would have still won that fight if the Nog of the 1st Fedor fight was fighting in the UFC and Mir used this strategy but it would have been more competitive at least. 5th round, unanimous decision.

As far as selling Fedor short: It's because he's overrated. He's not even the modern equivalent of GSP and Anderson Silva in his prime. It was just that the Pride division liked to feed cans to build it's fighter and Fedor just happened to be like the Luiz Cane or Junior Dos Santos of that division, of that time and he surprised a then overrated Heath Herring who was an above average fighter but a somewhat dirty veteran gritty fighter who tends to come into fights while severely underrating his opponents' MMA-ness. (if that makes sense)

Let's just say he treats strikers as people who can't hang with him on the ground and ground specialists as people who can't strike with him and when you're a Jack of all Trades yourself, you're asking for an upset against Fedor (...and Nog)

So Fedor now beats this guy Heath Herring who at the time only looked good because Pride doesn't have a good #2 yet in their HW division and Fedor came into the Nog fight highly underrated. (worse than Mir odds)

Fedor did the right thing. Followed Dan Henderson's game plan while also using his size advantage and ground striking proficiency to "Ricco" Nog. Fedor was slightly overrated then because Nog was billed as the top HW of the world. Ok, that's not bad.

It's when he pretty much fought cans and a UFC reject in Kevin Randleman who came into a fight just wanting to spike Fedor that he became overrated and padded his undefeated streak.

Ask any UFC champions whether they would get this luxury if a better fighter was lying in wait for them and often times it only happens when a fighter fights well but hasn't shown the skills to beat the champ like a Yushin Okami that this happens.

Fedor though would have been fresh meat against Nog and Pride knew this so they sold Fedor and Fedor being an intelligent fighter also improved his overall game during this period. Wouldn't have happened in a legit org.

It would be one thing if Fedor fought decent competition but the opponents he fought favored him and it was only because he was a good but not invincible fighter that he didn't get Kimbo Slice'd.

Finally they gave him Nog who was in a downturn and had been well deserving of a rematch considering he was the former champion and they were favoring a Nog win which would set up a trilogy but the cut happened and they let both fight again.

This sounds good in theory but this is actually horrible. Same reason why I didn't want Rampage to get an instant rematch. This is basically giving the winning fighter extra time to better scout and improve their gameplan while the losing fighter would be mentally in trouble. This isn't always bad but as you can see in that fight, Nog really had no business fighting Fedor that soon. The outcome before the cut was pretty clear so you could have easily given Nog another fighter and Fedor a new challenger.

Didn't happen. This wouldn't make him so overrated if his previous opponents were of note but they weren't.

To make things worse, Fedor fought a long overdue Crocop where he had 6 months of training and Mirko only had 3. Wouldn't be bad if stylistically and mentally, Crocop was overrated compared to Fedor and had just been knocking out cans.

At this point, Fedor could have redeemed himself if he fought a legitimate contender in Barnett but Pride likes to throw some tourneys and other bookings that mess up rankings in favor of entertainment and well...Fedor fought opponents he should've beaten...except if he was truly God-like, he would have dominated them.

Mark Hunt anyone? Really, a striker gets away with a Kimura and the guy remains a God because he fought a newbie to the game by elite standards and who was the only fighter that wasn't pretty much made to look like they were holding off on his title shot and he looks like crap?

Then Fedor made even worse things. HMC under "Special rules"? That's like Randy saying, ok I'll fight Brock but he can't GnP me.

Finally he fought a Tim Sylvia that had no business fighting him since he lost to Nog and "Rampage'd" him and he's God again? Sorry, you don't hear many people saying that to Rampage after his KO of Silva.

The fact is, Fedor hasn't really fought an opponent that would be like a Forrest, a Randy or a Florian, Mir, Fitch, GSP, Penn, Serra, Anderson, Leben to him and that's where the current UFC HW division has. Not this guy called AA that already lost to Tim or this guy Josh Barnett that hasn't fought top competition as well so that he's actually not as good as he might've been but only possess the chance to beat Fedor outside of the UFC... (and if you haven't noticed, Barnett is still getting the same treatment Nog and Crocop had where the guy that could possibly beat him is made to wait for a well deserving title shot in the hopes that Fedor improves and Barnett declines)

...except Fedor hasn't fought anyone with a ground game that doesn't break except for a Nog which let's face it, uses his chin to block punches leaving him susceptible to unanimous decisions while Gonzaga not only has the ground game but has the HK of a Crocop in his prime and wouldn't mind taking Fedor down when he gets in close unlike Crocop.

Still better than Lindland, HMC, Coleman and Randleman when they fought Fedor.

Yet HMC is ok right? and besides Nog and Crocop, everyone who Fedor fought in the past can have a high chance of challenging Lesnar right? Cause you know Brock is such a newb. He fought a better Heath Herring in his 3rd fight and beat him and actually dared to fight the guy Fedor's management didn't want any business of, but sure, Fedor is so impressive.

Don't worry. Most people also thought beyond cutting them, he couldn't beat Gonzaga, Vitor, Randleman, Rizzo rematch, Sylvia, Chuck and Tito. Boy did he prove the fans right. Let's use Randy Couture as the person the so-called best HW in MMA shouldn't fight cause you know he has constantly failed to step up to the plate.

Mir also admitted he couldn't beat Nog. Boy, was Mir such a coward! Accepting a fight he couldn't win and dominating that person cause he thought he couldn't beat his opponent.

AA also lost to Tim and Tim also lost to Nog and Mark and Kevin were also on the downturn especially Randleman who got flash KO'ed on the ground while fighting LHW but let's pad Fedor's record more shall we?

In other news, we should also not feed Brock to Mir in his 2nd pro fight and to Randy in his 3rd pro fight cause that would make him "undeserving" of fighting Fedor and Nog shouldn't fight Mir, he should just be fed cans until his rematch with Sylvia and Randy should fight men as old as him while every once in a while, giving guys that were long overdue for title shots so they'll all be Gods

1) Tim having a bad back isn't as bad as Randy having a broken arm against Gonzaga. Timmy made a bad move because his boxing was overrated outside of jabs and he payed for it twice in Randy and Fedor.

2) If you get dominated by Nog when it hits the ground: chances are you're not the best and shouldn't be fighting a person like Fedor after coming off that lost.

3) Tim has no ground game and would also be easy pickings for Carwin, Velasquez, Dos Santos, Eddie Sanchez, Kongo, Hardonk, etc.

The problem with Timmeh isn't that he's a bad fighter. It's just that he lost his KO power a long time ago and rather than improve his technique, he relied on great TD defense and long range jabs when he should have been looking at how fellow MFS fighters Matt Hughes and Jens Pulver were losing their luster FAST.

Tim Sylvia right now is in a real bad place and he would have deteriorated fast if he didn't leave the UFC because every UFC HW contender right now is like Frank Mir when he lost to him with better stand-up that he couldn't get away with what he did to Ricco and Arlovski is fighting way too cautious during his UFC run that he couldn't lure AA to another wildman counter KO.

I'm really so much dumber for having read this.... I'm sorry... I'm not trying to be mean, but holy factual incorrectness.

So many things... so little time. From discrediting a Crocop fight, to calling for a Barnett fight, a guy Crocop crushed numerous times. To discrediting Randleman's fight and Nog's rematch, that happened in a tournament. Not the fight round either... the second round and the finals. Those guys earned those fights. To claiming Fedor just beats guys at their weaknesses... a guy who outstruck a prime Crocop, beat a prime Nog on the ground, outwrestled an olympic caliber wrestler in Coleman, etc, etc. To discrediting a Hunt fight... a guy who beat elite talent in Crocop and Wand (yeah I get it, Wand moved up in weight..) Just so much stretching the truth, or completely changing it to make your points, it made me a little sad lol.

I could do this stuff about anyone I wanted. I could tear apart every little aspect of what they've done, to make it seem like they've never accomlished a thing. It doesn't make it right, because to do something this elaborate, takes quite a bit of bias (and in this case, completely changing facts.) It's just not worth it though. Fedor is what he is... I just can't see a giant post smear campaign changing the fact that the only man to "beat" him did it on what amounts to an accidental cut. He's number 1 for a reason.

By the way.... gotta ask how a preexisting injury like a bad back, and a broken arm that happened during the fight on a blocked head kick, are comparable?

Oh, and I threw up in my mouth a little at the notion of Mir beating a prime Nog... not gonna lie. Gross.

UFC-KING · December 30, 2008

Depends on the factors. Assuming Randy fought Fedor when he fought Brock, then definite win for Fedor just due to the time between fights. (I believe him when he said he had no cage rust but his skill implementation weren't up to 100% of what he would have been and against a guy like Brock, it's all around a bad idea)

Assuming Randy has adjusted either through a Nog or Liddell fight and won, then it's 50/50. Take some and give some away based on who gets their preferred fighting arena. Fedor already admitted he's wary of the cage. Randy has already shown that he's still not that great on his back to adjust to the benefits of the ring. He's better than Tim at gameplanning but look how big that proximity kept Tim from really going the distance with Fedor.

Mir vs. Lesnar - 88% to Brock via everything. 12% to Mir via avoiding Brock's power and speed. I am rooting for Mir though but he can't come in to this fight like he did with Nog and as someone from Sherdog said, Mir just gave Brock one of the strategies to beat him because he and Nog are alike so what Mir did to Nog, Brock can potentially do to Mir.

Mir also can't submit Brock from anywhere but the lower body with ease but Brock also now have the striking and at least better Jiu Jitsu to make it more difficult for Mir so it's really going to be how Mir pulls off a Ryo Chonan in this fight IMO. Just really bad all around set up for Mir because if he survives Brock, then he has to deal with Kongo next most likely and then deal with either Carwin or Gonzaga so... right now Mir doesn't have the physical attributes to just take those fights without a diverse set of differing gameplans...but this is why I want Frank Mir as the champion in the first place: I like legitimate champions who are forced to prove themselves beyond their physical capabilities.

You also can't take away the possibility of Randy moving down to LHW now that Forrest isn't champion. People say the LHW is the most diverse and stacked at the top of all MMA divisions but every one of those fighters looks better for Randy than any HW contender right now for him.

Rashad/Rampage are better Kevin Randleman and Randy fought Kevin when people thought no one could out muscle Kevin's top game and both fighters haven't had their guard game tested that much. The odds still don't favor Randy but compared to Brock/Barnett? Much more comfortable fight.

Rampage vs. Wand pretty much has now given the platform for Randy to have a fight with Liddell for the 4th time. Let's face it, both of Liddell's wins were dubious and not making excuses for Randy but the people that have beaten Chuck are still borderline elites. With the exception of Jardine, Chuck has lost to power punchers. Something Randy has developed somewhat to make up for his slower reflexes. Jardine can also be said to be a purer striker than Randy so this can easily go Randy's way.

Randy vs. Machida. Again good fight for Randy. This is like Forrest vs. Machida with less running away by Forrest to a decision. This will also be Machida's most aggressive fight if this ever happened. Randy is not a pure power puncher, has better footwork than Tito and who's primary weakness is being on his back. Just bad bad match up for Randy.

Randy vs. Anderson. Same thing with Machida. Randy has shown he can take a knee from Brock. The only big question is whether Randy can avoid being hit in the area behind the ear which Anderson hasn't really shown much attempts of so you're going to either see a better Anderson or Randy Couture gets to fight another day again.

Honestly, I could not follow that

darthsiddus2 · December 30, 2008

I just saw the Fedor vs Silvia fight................ Silvia's a tough competitor no doubt but not at the level of a Minotaro nogeira..... but the way Fedor went about the fight was unique. he was going all out.

RennikKain076 · December 30, 2008

I dont see how I missed commenting on this but I just noticed that he said Fedor was "only slightly overrated" after beating Nog the first time because Nog was ranked number 1 I guess that means he thinks Nog was very overrated because Fedor smashed him. He didnt "Ricco him" either he gave him one of the worst beatings in MMA history. Ricco controled top postion on Nog he didnt beat him to a pulp. Im not dissing on Nog he is the 2nd best HW in MMA history, he's lost a few steps now for sure but he could still beat 90% of the HW's out there.

UFC-KING · December 30, 2008

In this case, it's true since he did admit he didn't pay attention to Fedor's fight with Nog and really comparing the Nog that fought Mir with the one that fought Fedor is just inaccurate. I believe Mir would have still won that fight if the Nog of the 1st Fedor fight was fighting in the UFC and Mir used this strategy but it would have been more competitive at least. 5th round, unanimous decision. [/Quote]

As D.O. Said, the thought of Mir beating a Prime Nog, is just sickening, Nog had never been finished at that time, and was the best he was at that time.

As far as selling Fedor short: It's because he's overrated. He's not even the modern equivalent of GSP and Anderson Silva in his prime. It was just that the Pride division liked to feed cans to build it's fighter and Fedor just happened to be like the Luiz Cane or Junior Dos Santos of that division, of that time and he surprised a then overrated Heath Herring who was an above average fighter but a somewhat dirty veteran gritty fighter who tends to come into fights while severely underrating his opponents' MMA-ness. (if that makes sense)[/Quote]

I didn't follow that at any level. I don't see how they were feeding cans to Junior Dos Santos or Luiz Cane. Dos Santos KO'ed Fabricio Werdum, and Cane has beaten guys like Lambert. Fedor (As much as I dislike the guy) has dominated far more than these guys, and the fact that you say they were building his record fighting cans, look at these facts :

He walks into PRIDE, beats Schilt, then Beats Herring and Nog, Dominates Fujita, Coleman and Randleman. Nog again and Cro Cop. Everybody else he dominated in devastating fashion. So far, you're 0-2

Let's just say he treats strikers as people who can't hang with him on the ground and ground specialists as people who can't strike with him and when you're a Jack of all Trades yourself, you're asking for an upset against Fedor (...and Nog) [/Quote]

Well that's kind of what you are supposed to do when you are able in every aspect, face it, the guy can strike and submit. 0-3

So Fedor now beats this guy Heath Herring who at the time only looked good because Pride doesn't have a good #2 yet in their HW division and Fedor came into the Nog fight highly underrated. (worse than Mir odds)[/Quote]

Heath Herring was a huge star in Japan and PRIDE, so for you to say that he wasn't a good number 2 in the HW Division is just absurd. At that time he had beaten : Vovchanchyn and Kerr, two of the big time Heavyweights. 0-4 young man.

Fedor did the right thing. Followed Dan Henderson's game plan while also using his size advantage and ground striking proficiency to "Ricco" Nog. Fedor was slightly overrated then because Nog was billed as the top HW of the world. Ok, that's not bad. [/Quote]

That does not overrate you, He was able to follow a Game Plan, to say that he "Ricco'd" Nog is just not right, He was able to stop Nog's takedowns, and dominate him standing, and then prove the world wrong by taking him down and ground and pounding him to show that he is able to beat a world class ground fighter at his own game. 0-5

It's when he pretty much fought cans and a UFC reject in Kevin Randleman who came into a fight just wanting to spike Fedor that he became overrated and padded his undefeated streak.[/Quote]

Kevin Randleman is by far not a UFC Reject, he is a Former UFC Champion, and a top caliber wrestler. How the F*ck can you say that he fought cans after that, Last time I checked, Coleman, Nog, Kohsaka, Cro Cop, and hell even Hunt weren't cans. 0-6

Ask any UFC champions whether they would get this luxury if a better fighter was lying in wait for them and often times it only happens when a fighter fights well but hasn't shown the skills to beat the champ like a Yushin Okami that this happens. [/Quote]

Yushin Okami, is a great fighter, he is a top level wrestler and ground and pounder, he just doesn't have the star quality to headline a Main Event against somebody like Anderson Silva, it's a shame because Anderson has been waiting for the re-match against Okami. Okami could very well beat Anderson, and to say that he hasn't shown the skill to beat the champ is again, just absurd. Cote fought Anderson, And he barely did anything, he hadn't shown any ability to beat Silva, much less Okami. 0-7

Fedor though would have been fresh meat against Nog and Pride knew this so they sold Fedor and Fedor being an intelligent fighter also improved his overall game during this period. Wouldn't have happened in a legit org. [/Quote]

PRIDE was a legit org at this time, Japan is the pinnacle of Martial Arts, and to say that they sold Fedor because they weren't is again, absurd. UFC, DREAM any other company would do this because Ratings are important, I guess they thought Fedor was a good draw for an event

It would be one thing if Fedor fought decent competition but the opponents he fought favored him and it was only because he was a good but not invincible fighter that he didn't get Kimbo Slice'd.[/Quote]

I am not at liberty to say why I think this is stupid, because I would be here all night

Finally they gave him Nog who was in a downturn and had been well deserving of a rematch considering he was the former champion and they were favoring a Nog win which would set up a trilogy but the cut happened and they let both fight again. [/Quote]

So far this is the only intelligent thing you've said so far.

This sounds good in theory but this is actually horrible. Same reason why I didn't want Rampage to get an instant rematch. This is basically giving the winning fighter extra time to better scout and improve their gameplan while the losing fighter would be mentally in trouble. This isn't always bad but as you can see in that fight, Nog really had no business fighting Fedor that soon. The outcome before the cut was pretty clear so you could have easily given Nog another fighter and Fedor a new challenger.[/Quote]

2-10

Didn't happen. This wouldn't make him so overrated if his previous opponents were of note but they weren't.

To make things worse, Fedor fought a long overdue Crocop where he had 6 months of training and Mirko only had 3. Wouldn't be bad if stylistically and mentally, Crocop was overrated compared to Fedor and had just been knocking out cans.[/Quote]

Cro Cop had not been knocking out Cans, look at who he fought before Fedor

Magomedov
Coleman
Randleman
Barnett
A. Emelianenko
Sakuraba
Vovchanchyn
Herring

At this point, Fedor could have redeemed himself if he fought a legitimate contender in Barnett but Pride likes to throw some tourneys and other bookings that mess up rankings in favor of entertainment and well...Fedor fought opponents he should've beaten...except if he was truly God-like, he would have dominated them.[/Quote]

Not gonna say anything. Will have to come back to this later.

Mark Hunt anyone? Really, a striker gets away with a Kimura and the guy remains a God because he fought a newbie to the game by elite standards and who was the only fighter that wasn't pretty much made to look like they were holding off on his title shot and he looks like crap?[/Quote]

Be Back Later.

Then Fedor made even worse things. HMC under "Special rules"? That's like Randy saying, ok I'll fight Brock but he can't GnP me. [/Quote]

Later, can't think of anything yet.

EVERYTHING ELSE I WILL ADDRESS LATER

Finally he fought a Tim Sylvia that had no business fighting him since he lost to Nog and "Rampage'd" him and he's God again? Sorry, you don't hear many people saying that to Rampage after his KO of Silva.

The fact is, Fedor hasn't really fought an opponent that would be like a Forrest, a Randy or a Florian, Mir, Fitch, GSP, Penn, Serra, Anderson, Leben to him and that's where the current UFC HW division has. Not this guy called AA that already lost to Tim or this guy Josh Barnett that hasn't fought top competition as well so that he's actually not as good as he might've been but only possess the chance to beat Fedor outside of the UFC... (and if you haven't noticed, Barnett is still getting the same treatment Nog and Crocop had where the guy that could possibly beat him is made to wait for a well deserving title shot in the hopes that Fedor improves and Barnett declines)

...except Fedor hasn't fought anyone with a ground game that doesn't break except for a Nog which let's face it, uses his chin to block punches leaving him susceptible to unanimous decisions while Gonzaga not only has the ground game but has the HK of a Crocop in his prime and wouldn't mind taking Fedor down when he gets in close unlike Crocop.

Still better than Lindland, HMC, Coleman and Randleman when they fought Fedor.

Yet HMC is ok right? and besides Nog and Crocop, everyone who Fedor fought in the past can have a high chance of challenging Lesnar right? Cause you know Brock is such a newb. He fought a better Heath Herring in his 3rd fight and beat him and actually dared to fight the guy Fedor's management didn't want any business of, but sure, Fedor is so impressive.

Don't worry. Most people also thought beyond cutting them, he couldn't beat Gonzaga, Vitor, Randleman, Rizzo rematch, Sylvia, Chuck and Tito. Boy did he prove the fans right. Let's use Randy Couture as the person the so-called best HW in MMA shouldn't fight cause you know he has constantly failed to step up to the plate.

Mir also admitted he couldn't beat Nog. Boy, was Mir such a coward! Accepting a fight he couldn't win and dominating that person cause he thought he couldn't beat his opponent.

AA also lost to Tim and Tim also lost to Nog and Mark and Kevin were also on the downturn especially Randleman who got flash KO'ed on the ground while fighting LHW but let's pad Fedor's record more shall we?

In other news, we should also not feed Brock to Mir in his 2nd pro fight and to Randy in his 3rd pro fight cause that would make him "undeserving" of fighting Fedor and Nog shouldn't fight Mir, he should just be fed cans until his rematch with Sylvia and Randy should fight men as old as him while every once in a while, giving guys that were long overdue for title shots so they'll all be Gods

1) Tim having a bad back isn't as bad as Randy having a broken arm against Gonzaga. Timmy made a bad move because his boxing was overrated outside of jabs and he payed for it twice in Randy and Fedor.

2) If you get dominated by Nog when it hits the ground: chances are you're not the best and shouldn't be fighting a person like Fedor after coming off that lost.

3) Tim has no ground game and would also be easy pickings for Carwin, Velasquez, Dos Santos, Eddie Sanchez, Kongo, Hardonk, etc.

The problem with Timmeh isn't that he's a bad fighter. It's just that he lost his KO power a long time ago and rather than improve his technique, he relied on great TD defense and long range jabs when he should have been looking at how fellow MFS fighters Matt Hughes and Jens Pulver were losing their luster FAST.

Tim Sylvia right now is in a real bad place and he would have deteriorated fast if he didn't leave the UFC because every UFC HW contender right now is like Frank Mir when he lost to him with better stand-up that he couldn't get away with what he did to Ricco and Arlovski is fighting way too cautious during his UFC run that he couldn't lure AA to another wildman counter KO.

VTial · December 30, 2008

I agree with most of this but Shogun wasnt in prime condition for this fight im not saying the outcome wouldve changed had he been in great shape but I think it wouldve been less one sided. I think he took Griffin lightly and didnt train as hard as he should have for the fight but thats his own fault. Watch some of his fights over seas and you can clearly tell that he wasnt in as good of shape.

Problem with this statement is that all Pride fighters have looked out of shape coming into the UFC fights compared to their Pride forms.

I dont even know where to start I quit reading after you said Eddie Sanchez and Antoni Hardonk would handle Sylvia with ease I really hope you werent serious.

Well then that's a problem on your side for not being able to comprehend correctly. There's a difference between being able to challenge and beat Sylvia from beating him with ease. Problem is most MMA fans including the hardcore fans like you tend to be biased. It's guys like you that breed people who make statements such as Mir has no chance against Nog, Serra has no chance against GSP, Gonzaga has no chance against Crocop, etc. etc. Can't be helped.

The can argument needs to stop anyway his next two fights are AA who even Dana White admits he would love to have back

Sorry, Dana White also wants to have Fedor and Randy back when they left. Doesn't mean they're Gods. It's ok if you said Fedor was championship material but let's face it, most hardcore fans aren't saying that. They're saying that he doesn't even need to come to the UFC to prove it.

It's like what most hardcore Pride fans said Crocop would do when he came to the UFC.

and Josh Barnett who has beaten some very good HW's in his day I think thats a couple of tough days at work for anybody.

...and again, the misconstruction continues everytime you bring up the flaw of Pride bookings to Pride fans. Sorry, I'm a black and white person myself but there's a difference between UFC's consistent tough match-ups if the fight is available even when the opponent is unknown and got less hype than Pride's entertaining and sometimes we'll book you with a good fight.

Another flaw is that now you're assuming I don't think Barnett is a good fight for Fedor cause you didn't read my entire post.

Who knows assuming he wins both of those fights maybe he will go to the UFC and fight lets just kick back and enjoy quality MMA all around.

That's the thing. I don't have a problem with enjoying my fights but when Fedor nuthuggers say Fedor is God and shouldn't fight unknown HW contenders because they're "young", "unknown" or "raw" and pumping up his undefeated record, they're not really trying to enjoy quality MMA: they're trying to discredit quality MMA fighters and favoring hyped up souped up entertaining fights that involve top fighters fighting cans to make themselves look good.

Again, not a problem if violence is your prime factor for a quality MMA fight. Even the UFC has these sometimes. It's when you distort rankings and discredit every guy who says Fedor is overrated and twist their arguments that it's bad.

I'd also like to clear up the comment about the Mir interview I didnt mean it to sound like Mir is afriad to fight Fedor or that he thinks Fedor would kill him. It was a great sign of respect from a quality fighter like Mir to Fedor he acknowledged that at this time he feels Fedor is the best at HW and his personal goal is to become better than Fedor. It's not cowardice it's intelligence to scout the top guy at your division and admit where he has you beat at so you can improve your weaknesses. Just like he did with Nog he put his pride aside and admited to himself that Nog had him beat in everyway so he worked on his entire game really hard to pass Nog's skills and it paid off.

Well, you made it sound like that cause you were listing this fact and twisting it as a reason for him not to fight this fighter. Reread the context of your words again. If you simply want to point out this, would you have included it among the many reasons why Fedor shouldn't move to the UFC?

I dont know about everyone else but I picked Randy to beat Gonzaga, Tito, Randleman, Vitor the 2nd and 3rd times ( I wasnt watching MMA back at UFC 14 or 15 when they first fought though I have seen the fight on tape) he did surprise me against Chuck and Sylvia.

Doesn't matter. Just because you pick a fighter to win against another fighter doesn't mean many others discredit those fighters when they lose or you might discredit them unintentionally when you say Fedor shouldn't even bother with them.

Dude Fedor hasnt ever lost minus the TK cut so saying that he has constanly failed to step up to the plate is absolutly laughable.

Again this is a problem with most anti and pro-Fedor nuthuggers: You think it's either Fedor is a bad fighter or Fedor's God. No, what's laughable is by basically saying Fedor has constantly step up to the plate is that you're ****ting on guys like Randy who doesn't just constantly have to step up to the plate but have to topple the plate at a consistent basis as well as ****ting on fighters who can't have an easy road to a title but gain it because they meet fighters they have to topple even before receiving the championship and immediately after gaining the championship.

So many things... so little time. From discrediting a Crocop fight, to calling for a Barnett fight, a guy Crocop crushed numerous times.

Newsflash, most hardcore fans pretty much also agree that Barnett is Fedor's only good fight on paper outside of the UFC. Doesn't mean he can't lose to someone else but when you think Crocop is the same fighter as Fedor then...well can't be helped. Stupid people like to call other people stupid.

Besides, you're missing the point that outside of Barnett, there's no one currently that comes close to fighting Fedor if you consider the rankings. AA is just pure hype whether he beats Fedor or not cause Fedor already beat Tim Sylvia. This is even worse than Brock fighting Randy cause Brock at least beat Herring, the same person Fedor beat to get a title shot where AA just beat a nobody by his skill set.

To discrediting Randleman's fight and Nog's rematch, that happened in a tournament.

What's discrediting things did I say about them? Randleman lost several times in the UFC didn't he? Randleman lost to Fedor didn't he? Randleman is one of the fighters used to justify Fedor's undefeated streak and his claim to MMA God isn't he?

Same thing with Nog. Did he really bring anything different to the table? and yet Franklin fought Anderson twice on shorter notice and both had to fight better competition to retain their belt than what Fedor went through and Anderson quickly moved to Henderson after his second win to Franklin. How long did Crocop have to wait?

Not the fight round either... the second round and the finals. Those guys earned those fights.

...and again the stupidity continues. The only thing discrediting tournament rankings isn't whether fighters earned it, is that tournament rankings are a poor test for testing the best fighters.

To claiming Fedor just beats guys at their weaknesses... a guy who outstruck a prime Crocop, beat a prime Nog on the ground, outwrestled an olympic caliber wrestler in Coleman, etc, etc. To discrediting a Hunt fight... a guy who beat elite talent in Crocop and Wand (yeah I get it, Wand moved up in weight..) Just so much stretching the truth, or completely changing it to make your points, it made me a little sad lol.

Lol, stretching the truth? Yours should be exhibit A for stretching the truth.

A prime Crocop that trained less than Fedor and had to wait for a long time while he KO cans?

A prime Nog which Henderson already showed that if you can keep yourself from being submitted you can UD them?

An olympic wrestler that had not shown or beaten any top competition to his road to Fedor?

A Mark Hunt who fought two strikers and then was able to nearly submit the so-called God?

Where are these details? Oh right, you're not stretching the truth. LOL

...and again here you have another nuthugger who thinks anything critical about these fights is equivalent to Fedor fighting guys at their weakness. Why can't it be that these guys weren't top contenders except for Nog and Crocop and only Nog was 100% coming into those fights and he wasn't God either but a great competitor and Fedor got his number? Why can't it be Fedor is a great fighter that hasn't fought a diverse set of opponents compared to other great fighters and that has helped him retain an undefeated streak?

No, it either has to be Fedor being overrated (hence a bad fighter) or God isn't it with you fans as well as the haters you like to bring up whenever someone brings up other points shouldn't it? It's even not that bad of a problem if you guys don't defend guys who said Fedor has nothing to prove in the UFC and allow your overranking of him to poop the hard work of every HW contender there is that is constantly fighting against competitions they can't just step up to but they have to bring their all and then improve their overall skills to.

By the way.... gotta ask how a preexisting injury like a bad back, and a broken arm that happened during the fight on a blocked head kick, are comparable?

Because a bad back doesn't hinder footwork to avoid a punch where as a broken arm, regardless of whether it happened in the fight makes it awfully hard to win a fight especially if you're a wrestler fighting a guy who can do it again and submit you on that arm on the bottom.

Remember the guy was saying Tim's lost to Randy was excusable because he had a bad back.

I dont see how I missed commenting on this but I just noticed that he said Fedor was "only slightly overrated" after beating Nog the first time because Nog was ranked number 1 I guess that means he thinks Nog was very overrated because Fedor smashed him. He didnt "Ricco him" either he gave him one of the worst beatings in MMA history. Ricco controled top postion on Nog he didnt beat him to a pulp. Im not dissing on Nog he is the 2nd best HW in MMA history, he's lost a few steps now for sure but he could still beat 90% of the HW's out there.

Not very overrated but which top competition did he beat to get the championship? He was overrated in the sense that all champions are overrated when they held the belt but Pride likes to market like a pro-wrestling fed which paints their champions as Gods. When Fedor was the only one who did it, it's like how people are overrating Mir a bit now.

As far as why Ricco's was poorer than the beating Fedor gave Nog, did you ever asked yourself who had the better ground striking between the two? The fact is, you don't need beat him to a pulp and Fedor didn't destroy Nog to the point of stoppage anyway so the point is kinda moot.

The fact is that the Henderson strategy has always been to ground and pound Nog, avoid getting submitted and avoid laying and praying. Had Fedor beat Nog to a stoppage it would have been impressive but he didn't need to do that necessarily. Just keep grounding and pounding Nog to a unanimous decision and keep yourself from getting subbed. Sure, if you can beat him to a pulp even better. The fact that Fedor could do this is testament to his skills. The fact that Fedor is made to be a God because he did this and remain undefeated against poorer competition on the ground makes him overrated.

I didn't follow that at any level. I don't see how they were feeding cans to Junior Dos Santos or Luiz Cane. Dos Santos KO'ed Fabricio Werdum, and Cane has beaten guys like Lambert. Fedor (As much as I dislike the guy) has dominated far more than these guys, and the fact that you say they were building his record fighting cans

No, Fedor WAS a can (by most MMA fans' perception and by the way Pride wanted it) when he fought Herring. Pride was selling this undefeated guy who should make Herring looked improved and thus worthy of fighting Nog again.

Same case with Luiz Cane and Dos Santos where they were supposedly booked against better competition but had the tools to beat them but they dominated their opponents which gave them due reason to either be contenders or borderline be able to challenge the champs. (although the UFC cherry pick this of course but technically Werdum was the #1 contender and Sokodjou was a top contender that looked good on paper prior to losing to Machida) I would have also used Gonzaga and Brock but they were given even worse odds than Fedor in their wins to the championship.

Well that's kind of what you are supposed to do when you are able in every aspect, face it, the guy can strike and submit. 0-3

Lol, no. If that's what you're supposed to do then he should've won those fights.

Heath Herring was a huge star in Japan and PRIDE, so for you to say that he wasn't a good number 2 in the HW Division is just absurd. At that time he had beaten : Vovchanchyn and Kerr, two of the big time Heavyweights. 0-4 young man.

Like I said, Pride knows how to hype their fighters. Tell me if he was such a good star than why is it that Nog and Fedor are better than him now even though he has improved and guys like Nog had declined?

In Pride, you're a can until you beat a star and then you're a star until you lose to another star and then they'll try to milk you some other way based on your later performances.

That does not overrate you, He was able to follow a Game Plan, to say that he "Ricco'd" Nog is just not right, He was able to stop Nog's takedowns, and dominate him standing, and then prove the world wrong by taking him down and ground and pounding him to show that he is able to beat a world class ground fighter at his own game. 0-5

It does when it's basically the same thing that got Brock to a fight with Randy. It means he's a great fighter but when you're sold as a God because Nog was sold as #1, that can't be helped. All champions become overrated when they win the belt. Of course, you do what you're supposed to do. That's how all fighters should be. You're not getting the point but hopefully if you read some of my replies to the other two who questioned this, you might get it.

Frankly, I'm a bit worried that you're just bandwagonning and fight findering because how can you not know Fedor was being sold as a can prior to his win over Nog if you've been watching Pride way back then.

Kevin Randleman is by far not a UFC Reject, he is a Former UFC Champion, and a top caliber wrestler. How the F*ck can you say that he fought cans after that, Last time I checked, Coleman, Nog, Kohsaka, Cro Cop, and hell even Hunt weren't cans. 0-6

They're cans if they're fighting for the championship and didn't need to go through a dominant performance against great fighters to get there. Key word for Randleman there is "FORMER" UFC Champion.

You must not have been watching UFC back then cause if you did, you would know even in his prime Randleman wasn't a good challenge for Fedor based on the skill set he possessed. His aura of being a physical monster was shattered already when he lost to Randy and he was always gun shy against any fighter with decent striking and is even weaker than Coleman on the ground as far as killer instincts go but he was definitely more athletic. (That's how he lost to Rutten, Coleman was shouting for him to become active but Kevin was laying and praying.)

Yushin Okami, is a great fighter, he is a top level wrestler and ground and pounder, he just doesn't have the star quality to headline a Main Event against somebody like Anderson Silva, it's a shame because Anderson has been waiting for the re-match against Okami. Okami could very well beat Anderson, and to say that he hasn't shown the skill to beat the champ is again, just absurd. Cote fought Anderson, And he barely did anything, he hadn't shown any ability to beat Silva, much less Okami. 0-7

Every contender can beat a champion. That's why they are called contenders but Okami got knocked out with an up kick. IF he had a legitimate case against Anderson, the time to prove it was in his fight against Rich Franklin.

In case you didn't know, he lost.

PRIDE was a legit org at this time, Japan is the pinnacle of Martial Arts, and to say that they sold Fedor because they weren't is again, absurd. UFC, DREAM any other company would do this because Ratings are important, I guess they thought Fedor was a good draw for an event

No, they didn't.

Fedor became legit when he became a champion.

Apparently you don't know much about the difference in bookings. I'm not an expert myself but the bookings in Pride and in the UFC were day and night.

1. UFC being an American company and philosophically would want to avoid freak shows. That was one of the reasons Brandon Vera was being consistently convinced to drop down to LHW.

2. Gonzaga and Crocop, Serra and GSP, Jardine and Chuck wouldn't have happened in Pride. This is because Pride doesn't want a fighter with a ground game to fight a fighter without one unless they can be sure it's a competitive one or it's named fighters like Gracies vs. Sakuraba.

Fedor was an anomaly in that they severely underestimated his overall game. The only other fighter to do that was Sokodjou where they didn't really expect him to get flash KO's over sloppy but great fighters with little gameplan.

Pride did relax on this a bit but you could still see flashes of this in their later bookings.

Cro Cop had not been knocking out Cans, look at who he fought before Fedor

Magomedov
Coleman
Randleman
Barnett
A. Emelianenko
Sakuraba
Vovchanchyn
Herring

Their cans in the sense that Crocop was an elite striker and these guys didn't provide any overall aspect to challenge him. It didn't mean he was a poor fighter but as you can see with the Gonzaga fight, if you can pressure Crocop, he crumbles. None of these guys were pressure fighters with some striking. Even Mark Hunt said the same thing in an interview.

The fact is, Crocop was over fighting when he should've been fighting Fedor already. By prolonging the Crocop fight, it pretty much guaranteed that Crocop would lose eventually and a guy like Randleman would "fluke" it out thus giving Fedor more time to retain his championship.

It also means if Fedor beat Crocop once, this sends Crocop back even further for a rematch.

D.O. · December 30, 2008

I'm not gonna bother going point by point quoting... but you're missing the point.

All I'm saying with the tournament stuff, is that it was a tournament. You can't make it seem like it is just horrible matchmaking. Those two men won fights, Randleman specifically with a brutal KO where he was a heavy underdog, to get that fight.

Why do people use the Randleman fight to prop up Fedor? Because he got dropped on his friggin head in brutal fashion and subbed the guy still like 30 seconds later. It still remains one of, if not THE most impressive thing I've ever seen in MMA.

The thing about Barnett... yes, I get it, styles make fights. My point is, that while people are clamoring for this fight because the HW division is wholly unimpressive, and it seems like the only option for a fight with Fedor that could be competitive, it's likely to not be. Barnett is very beatable. He's also incredible at marketting himself. Barnett is the one who while in PRIDE didn't want that fight. Look at his recent track record of opponents. He's smart about who he fights. Guys he can beat. Now he's pretty much not gonna fight Fedor until the money really overwhelms him. I'm not saying it's not a decent fight, but I just don't think it is the be all end all fight for Fedor.

I do love how the facts have been, I dunno, pulled from thin air about a Crocop fight tho. Fedor trained longer for the fight? Says who.

Also, using a Rings fight, where, in reality, isn't MMA, to talk about Nog, might be my favorite arguement. It's something I love too when hearing people talk about the Arona fight. Rings shouldn't even be on people's MMA records. There was no ground striking, so yeah, you could look great against a guy if you could avoid subs, cus you didn't have to do a damn thing but stall out on top.

Since when does a back injury not hinder footwork btw? Have you ever had one? Back injuries make many things, but namely movement, excruciating. The reason I asked that question though was because Gonzaga broke his arm. It happened in the fight, he went into that fight 100% and got hurt because that's what happens in a fight. A guy going into a fight with a back injury is going into a fight with things that he can't do. It's like comparing Sherk beating Florian with a giant gushing cut on his head, to Mike Swick fighting Marcus Davis without full range of motion in his lead arm. One happened because he was in a fight, the other happened before the fight. While they both effect the guy, if it happened in the fight, while impressive as hell that they fought through it, they aren't really comparable.

Just to put out there. I'm not this huge Fedor guy. Truthfully, I'm more of an underdog guy, so will be there flipping out when he eventually loses. I just hate this notion that we have to discredit everything accomplished by a guy whose accomplishments are without question. He is legit. He is what he is. Would things be different if we were in a magic world where the HW division wasn't so shallow? Quite likely. But that isn't the case. He is where he is, and in his division, he's the best there ever has been. His accomplishments are incredible, whether mixed within them are some fairly pointless fights or not. What I just don't get is this need to do whatever you can to discredit EVERYTHING this man has done. I just don't know...

VTial · December 30, 2008

All I'm saying with the tournament stuff, is that it was a tournament. You can't make it seem like it is just horrible matchmaking. Those two men won fights, Randleman specifically with a brutal KO where he was a heavy underdog, to get that fight.

No, you're the one missing the point. Tournaments are some of the best at getting horrible matchmakings cause you can make it seem like you didn't intend it by adding weaker fighters/unknown fighters while at the same time getting surprise results and justify a top fighter losing due to tournament rules and book them in a revenge match to hype up fights.

This is one reason why Chuck being in a tournament favored him over Wandy until Rampage came because it meant that Chuck's counter style allows him much better rest assuming he was that dominant over the other fighters.

Let's also not forget that tournaments are how Mark Coleman won the GP when he was pretty much done.

Why do people use the Randleman fight to prop up Fedor? Because he got dropped on his friggin head in brutal fashion and subbed the guy still like 30 seconds later. It still remains one of, if not THE most impressive thing I've ever seen in MMA.

Like I said, some fans see violence as a testament for quality MMA fights. I don't have a problem with that but did you really think that Fedor wouldn't have won that fight if he had survived that?

Think back to Newton-Hughes 1. Slams look good but they're often times not used to justify a fight as ones that makes one a God unless the sum of it's parts match up. In this case, Randleman had nothing on Fedor until that slam. This was a borderline competitive fight due to the slam but nothing to prove that Fedor was a MMA God except that he kept his undefeated streak.

The thing about Barnett... yes, I get it, styles make fights. My point is, that while people are clamoring for this fight because the HW division is wholly unimpressive, and it seems like the only option for a fight with Fedor that could be competitive, it's likely to not be. Barnett is very beatable. He's also incredible at marketting himself. Barnett is the one who while in PRIDE didn't want that fight. Look at his recent track record of opponents. He's smart about who he fights. Guys he can beat. Now he's pretty much not gonna fight Fedor until the money really overwhelms him. I'm not saying it's not a decent fight, but I just don't think it is the be all end all fight for Fedor.

I agree with you and that's my problem with people saying Fedor has no good fights in the UFC and more attractive fights outside of it. You weren't arguing for this in your previous reply however. You were just attacking me for saying Fedor should've fought Barnett and was ignoring that styles make fights by bringing up Crocop.

I do love how the facts have been, I dunno, pulled from thin air about a Crocop fight tho. Fedor trained longer for the fight? Says who.

This is mostly hearsay so I don't have a direct link. It's often attributed to why Bas Rutten seemed to favor Crocop in that fight.

Anyway, not the same story but this is what Google found for me:

Filipović repeatedly requested PRIDE to let him challenge the heavyweight champion Fedor Emelianenko. After winning six straight matches since his defeat by Randleman, including a knock-out victory against Aleksander Emelianenko (the 6'6", 255 lb brother of the champion), Filipović received a chance to fight Emelianenko for the title on August 28, 2005 at Pride's Final Conflict 2005 event. After three rounds, Emelianenko won by unanimous decision and retained his title. Emelianenko, considered by many to be the best MMA fighter the world has ever seen, admitted Filipović to be his toughest opponent to date. Filipović later said on Croatian national television that he came very exhausted to the match, mostly because he couldn't get used to the time difference in Japan and sleeping problems he had. The champion, likewise, was not in his top form. According to Fedor’s official website he was to begin preparations for surgery to reset bones in his previously hurt right hand the morning after the title fight with Mirko. According to Fedor he “could not take full advantage of right hand during the striking exchanges and had to try to close the distance”.

http://www.fansofk1.com/fighter?fID=32

Also, using a Rings fight, where, in reality, isn't MMA, to talk about Nog, might be my favorite arguement. It's something I love too when hearing people talk about the Arona fight. Rings shouldn't even be on people's MMA records. There was no ground striking, so yeah, you could look great against a guy if you could avoid subs, cus you didn't have to do a damn thing but stall out on top.

Hey, I use this same argument for Randy's record in Rings and pointed out how he used this opportunity to improve his ground game and that the rules favored the cans he fought but the fact is Rings in MMA so that's that.

I don't know why you're bringing it up though.

Since when does a back injury not hinder footwork btw? Have you ever had one? Back injuries make many things, but namely movement, excruciating.

If it was that bad, Tim would have been a sitting duck. The guy that came into that fight was walking fine. The back might have obviously bothered him but he was moving the same way he ever has.

The reason I asked that question though was because Gonzaga broke his arm. It happened in the fight, he went into that fight 100% and got hurt because that's what happens in a fight. A guy going into a fight with a back injury is going into a fight with things that he can't do. It's like comparing Sherk beating Florian with a giant gushing cut on his head, to Mike Swick fighting Marcus Davis without full range of motion in his lead arm. One happened because he was in a fight, the other happened before the fight. While they both effect the guy, if it happened in the fight, while impressive as hell that they fought through it, they aren't really comparable.

Depends on the context of both examples. In this case, what exactly did Randy do that a healthy Tim couldn't have trained for? Remember if it was that big of an injury, Tim wouldn't have been allowed to accept the fight.

The Gonzaga fight on the other hand was on paper almost impossible for a young Randy Couture to deal with already and many felt an older Couture needed his full weapons and when you take one of Randy's arms away, it reduces his effectiveness.

Yes, you can make the argument that you can't train everything when you're injured but you can still gameplan especially if you survived a decision where as a mid-fight injury can really screw you up especially when all you have going for you had always been your game plan and technique.

I'm disputing you here not because I think you're wrong but I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying either one is superior but both poses different but equal problems. That's where champions separate themselves from non-champions though. They try to find ways to beat their opponents even with these problems and they accept their losses no excuses. The guy I was replying to was using Tim's injury as an excuse and I am also biased this way over some fighters but like I said, you still need to put an injury in context. In this case, Tim could've and would've done better if he had a better overall skills in MMA but he trained like he always did and it showed. Even in the Nog fight, did you really see a radical shift in Sylvia's game that showed he didn't just tweak some of his training to handle Nog?

Just to put out there. I'm not this huge Fedor guy. Truthfully, I'm more of an underdog guy, so will be there flipping out when he eventually loses. I just hate this notion that we have to discredit everything accomplished by a guy whose accomplishments are without question. He is legit. He is what he is. Would things be different if we were in a magic world where the HW division wasn't so shallow? Quite likely. But that isn't the case. He is where he is, and in his division, he's the best there ever has been. His accomplishments are incredible, whether mixed within them are some fairly pointless fights or not. What I just don't get is this need to do whatever you can to discredit EVERYTHING this man has done. I just don't know...

I'm in the same ground but I also hate people who discredit anyone who discredits ANYTHING with their favorite fighters.

You can be who you want to be but the guy I was replying to was justifying Fedor's "God"-ness as proof that he has nothing to prove in the UFC and by siding with him, intentionally or unintentionally you're doing what you said you hate about those other people. Fact is, you discredit everything a fighter has accomplished where you allow a world where undefeated fighters get more respect than fighters fighting constant and consistent competition and am in part trying to influence a world where champions are built up like boxing.

This doesn't mean these people aren't just being biased and am maliciously hoping for this kind of scenario but they are contributing to it. Already there are people who would like to support Affliction just because they hate how the UFC is now a big dog while not really understanding how Affliction is insulting their fans by giving their fighters weak match ups to "showcase" their contenders and then selling them to the wolves in Fedor and then hoping it's a good entertaining fight and maybe sometimes Fedor loses to prop their next champion.

Bottomline, there's a difference between a company that wants to get ratings but also build legitimate fighters and a company that wants to build ratings by pre-booking exciting fights at the expense of the fighters as well as fighters who seek competition and fighters who are held on a pedestal for avoiding competition and where most of the hardcore MMA fans and future hardcore fans lean towards would determine the future of MMA. (yes, even though casual fans sell seats, it's hardcore fans that create viral marketing)

ACCBiggz · December 30, 2008

Mr. VTial, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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