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RennikKain076

By RennikKain076
in The Dog Pound

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VTial Newbie

VTial

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Just out of curiosity, How long does it take you on average to write these all the time ?

 

Hmm... I don't really notice. Maybe a few seconds or a minute? I don't particularly edit it except after I type it I read it out loud once.

 

Note: Some parts of the text below are written in a sarcastic manner.

 

Yeah, that guy who said Fedor couldn't armbar a bear was obviously on steroids.

 

...and what in God's name is an inhuman android? Is there such a thing as a humane android? OMGWTF?! Fedor by forcing you to kiss his shiny metal ass.

 

As for top HWs that Fedor hasn't beaten besides Barnett:

 

1) Frank Mir (impromptu accident shouldn't take away the fact that the guy was a top HW and former champion and just beat Nog)

 

2) Randy Couture (Duh! That guy was former HW champion and lost via drugs and then lost to a Ricco who nearly won against Nog and only lost to a Lesnar when he was way past his prime recently)

 

3) Werdum (It was close but Fabricio was coming around by then and it's debateable whether he wasn't a top contender already even before that as proven by his fight with Nog)

 

4) Antonio Silva (If EliteXC commentators said this was the guy that might just beat Fedor then this is the guy that might just beat Fedor)

 

5) Kimbo Slice (Just because he lost to a rejected UFC LHW doesn't change the fact that Bas Rutten thinks Slice can beat Fedor and Rutten is the man. Plus Fedor is 0-0 against people who took out his kidneys)

 

6) Chuck Liddle (If you haven't heard of this guy 6 years ago, he's the legendary LHW who was knocking out LHWs and promised to make the sky fall by knocking out HWs once he moves up in weight even though he has never moved up yet. Doesn't change the fact that six years ago, people thought he could KO anyone until The Junkyard Dog fell on him. Still, Fedor hasn't beaten this would've been top HW)

 

7) Kurt "Rickson Gracie" Angle (If you guys think Brock Lesnar is impressive now, you haven't seen Kurt 6 years ago. He was tooling Brock so much, people are still talking about his move to MMA today even though he has moved to MMA already and has a fearsome 11-0 record. The guy is so elusive people don't even know he's still fighting! Hell, he's so good he beats people up just by doing interviews)

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BlizzardVeers Newbie

BlizzardVeers

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1) Frank Mir (impromptu accident shouldn't take away the fact that the guy was a top HW and former champion and just beat Nog)

I'd love to see Mir vs Fedor, actually.

 

6) Chuck Liddle (If you haven't heard of this guy 6 years ago, he's the legendary LHW who was knocking out LHWs and promised to make the sky fall by knocking out HWs once he moves up in weight even though he has never moved up yet. Doesn't change the fact that six years ago, people thought he could KO anyone until The Junkyard Dog fell on him. Still, Fedor hasn't beaten this would've been top HW)

I giggled.

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RennikKain076 Newbie

RennikKain076

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Hmm... I don't really notice. Maybe a few seconds or a minute? I don't particularly edit it except after I type it I read it out loud once.

 

Note: Some parts of the text below are written in a sarcastic manner.

 

Yeah, that guy who said Fedor couldn't armbar a bear was obviously on steroids.

 

...and what in God's name is an inhuman android? Is there such a thing as a humane android? OMGWTF?! Fedor by forcing you to kiss his shiny metal ass.

 

As for top HWs that Fedor hasn't beaten besides Barnett:

 

1) Frank Mir (impromptu accident shouldn't take away the fact that the guy was a top HW and former champion and just beat Nog)

 

2) Randy Couture (Duh! That guy was former HW champion and lost via drugs and then lost to a Ricco who nearly won against Nog and only lost to a Lesnar when he was way past his prime recently)

 

3) Werdum (It was close but Fabricio was coming around by then and it's debateable whether he wasn't a top contender already even before that as proven by his fight with Nog)

 

4) Antonio Silva (If EliteXC commentators said this was the guy that might just beat Fedor then this is the guy that might just beat Fedor)

 

5) Kimbo Slice (Just because he lost to a rejected UFC LHW doesn't change the fact that Bas Rutten thinks Slice can beat Fedor and Rutten is the man. Plus Fedor is 0-0 against people who took out his kidneys)

 

6) Chuck Liddle (If you haven't heard of this guy 6 years ago, he's the legendary LHW who was knocking out LHWs and promised to make the sky fall by knocking out HWs once he moves up in weight even though he has never moved up yet. Doesn't change the fact that six years ago, people thought he could KO anyone until The Junkyard Dog fell on him. Still, Fedor hasn't beaten this would've been top HW)

 

7) Kurt "Rickson Gracie" Angle (If you guys think Brock Lesnar is impressive now, you haven't seen Kurt 6 years ago. He was tooling Brock so much, people are still talking about his move to MMA today even though he has moved to MMA already and has a fearsome 11-0 record. The guy is so elusive people don't even know he's still fighting! Hell, he's so good he beats people up just by doing interviews)

 

 

Inhuman by the fact that many claim he is "not a human" Android by the fact that many claim he is a "android". No there isnt a such thing as a human android but there isnt such a thing as a inhuman android either so it all works out for those of you keeping score.

 

Vtial Im a Fedor nuthugger not ass kisser lets make this very clear :mad:.

 

I believe I posted that i'd like to see Fedor fight the winner of Mir vs Lesner that includes Mir :p.

 

Sorry I was thinking of Couture as a LHW I forgot him but yes that fight needs to happen.

 

I would love to see him fight Werdum but Werdum has always been ranked right around 7 or 8 I was trying to point out that in random order Timmy, Arlovski, Nog, Barnett, and Cro Cop were the top 5 guys under Fedor for quite some time but yes im happy to include Werdum, Overeem, Kharitonov, Antonio Silva, and for those of you that would like to see a homoicide live on ppv match him up with Kimbo.

 

Yes Bas Rutten is without a doubt the man see Vtial even me and you can agree on something ;).

 

You say Kurt "Rickson Gracie" Angle I got one even better how about the original himself thats right Rickson Gracie vs Fedor. Rickson has stated in the past that he's unimpressed with Fedor and that he knows he can beat Fedor for sure. Fedor may be able to armbar God but lets see if he can take out a man who is nearly undefeated in 400 fights. Forget the fact that Helio Gracie claims this fact is BS and Rickson is using practice bouts to inflate his record and that if he used Rickson's system of totaling his fights it would come out to over 1 million. I think we all know the real truth..... Rickson by armbar.

 

(EXTREME SARCASM went into the writing of that paragraph)

 

VTial if you really write as much as you average doing in less than a minute you should be proud it took me 4 minutes to write this crap lol.

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BlizzardVeers Newbie

BlizzardVeers

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(EXTREME SARCASM went into the writing of that paragraph)

 

VTial if you really write as much as you average doing in less than a minute you should be proud it took me 4 minutes to write this crap lol.

I write at about an average speed of 110-120wpm. There's no way that takes about a minute. Now, I do know how getting into the groove of writing feels, and I know that when you're in the groove it -feels- like a minute. It's probably closer to 7 or 8 minutes though, and then you're confused as to where all the time went.

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VTial Newbie

VTial

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I've never heard of a "Chuck Liddle" :p lol is he as good as VTial says he is? he sounds pretty good. I didn't know that the Junkyard Dog fell on mr. Liddle.....wait I thought the JYD passed away? :p

 

Yeah, there's actually two trivia regarding that:

 

http://www.15rounds.com/boxing/News/2008/06/jackson-061308.php

 

Q: Switching gears a little bit – you got the chain, you got the howl – it’s very reminiscent of the Junkyard Dog. Were you a big fan of his growing up?

 

RJ: Actually, I liked the Junkyard Dog, but it’s kind of weird but I was a real big fan of the Ultimate Warrior growing up. I was the Ultimate Warrior every Halloween. I’m a big fan of Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior. It’s a weird coincidence that I started wearing the chain. My little brother gave me the chain. He thought it would be a good idea. I didn’t even realize people would compare me to Junkyard Dog until somebody said I howl like him. I think I’m a wolf and people think I’m a dog. I could swear I’m a wolf because I howl and stuff, but people keep calling me a dog and comparing me to the Junkyard Dog. I guess that’s what I get for wearing a chain.

 

I don't have the link to the Chuck Liddle thread anymore and Google didn't help link to the thread with the hilarious posts but there was some guy on Sherdog who didn't just typo Chuck's name, he literally wrote an entire topic where he kept spelling it Chuck Liddle and everyone was ribbing him and some hilarious replies were spoken. (I didn't participate though)

 

VTial if you really write as much as you average doing in less than a minute you should be proud it took me 4 minutes to write this crap lol.

 

:p

 

I write at about an average speed of 110-120wpm. There's no way that takes about a minute. Now, I do know how getting into the groove of writing feels, and I know that when you're in the groove it -feels- like a minute. It's probably closer to 7 or 8 minutes though, and then you're confused as to where all the time went.

 

That's true.

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Capelli King Rookie

Capelli King

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I was avoiding this topic precisely because I knew the post-fight feeling most Fedor fans have in this thread but your reply made me want to defend myself.

 

Emm, i was not talking about you:) Simply it seemed to me recently that every forum i went to i was hearing all this about Fedor being overrated and that he did not beat anyone worth while. In particular i have one of my pals which was really getting on my nerves, but the last 2 KO's over 2 ex-UFC champs in a combined time of 3 minutes kind of shut him up.;)

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VTial Newbie

VTial

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Oh, sorry about your pal. I know you weren't specifically targetting me but I kind of monitor MMA forums everytime an event I'm interested in is getting hyped and also after they've just been shown and I definitely saw the Arlovski threads appearing prominently only around the day of the weigh-ins and a few days prior to that.

 

A week ago though, most of these Andre would beat Fedor and expose Fedor as overrated shenanigans weren't as prominent and this is probably the closest fight event I've known where the supporters literally had no clue as to how Andre will beat Fedor except that Fedor was overrated.

 

Even the Fitch fight at least have people saying GSP is just better than Fitch on all positions but Jon wasn't far behind so he is much closer to Serra as far as skill sets go.

 

Edit: Note that even before this there were people saying AA might beat Fedor so I'm not saying there weren't. Just that it was only when Affliction was about to show that the AA trolls went wild about saying AA will defeat Fedor.

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  • 4 months later...
VTial Newbie

VTial

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Fedor lost any bargaining power he had over Dana and the UFC

 

Call it rude but when people insulted me in this thread as if I wasn't making points, I felt strongly then and even though some posters kind of calmed down a bit, maybe because I respected this community more than Sherdog, I thought it's time to remind those same people of my points now that Tim Sylvia has lost to Mercer.

 

To start with though, the thread that motivated me was this:

 

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/fedor-lost-any-bargaining-power-he-had-over-dana-ufc-994962/

 

I'm sure Dana was feeling a little heat to sign Fedor when everyone was calling Fedor the number 1 P4P fighter after his two victories over Sylvia and Arlovski, but honestly does anyone believe that garbage anymore after the last month? Several of Fedors former opponents fought and have look like absolute ****, and IMO completely discredits any argument of Fedor being number 1 P4P. This is who Fedor has fought the last four year.

 

Andrei Arlovski-Overrated with a glass jaw

Tim Sylvia-Horrible

Hong Man Choi-Just plain awful

Matt Lindland-Middle of the road 185 pounder

Mark Hunt-Overrated with a 5-6 record

Mark Coleman-Over the hill

Zuluzinho-Tomato Can

Cro Cop-Over the hill

Kosaka-Career journey man

 

 

And I doubt Dana wants to deal with more scumbag foreign handlers and managers after the Mirko debacle? And lets be honest Fedors not much of a draw, if he was than Rings, Pride, Inoki Bom Bae Yae, Bo dog, and Affliction wouldn't be dead or soon to be dead.

 

Sure, it's written in a knee jerk and ruder manner but this is the standards I expected of Sherdog. Hell, in my old account, I even felt that the only way to communicate with Sherdoggers was to be equally rude to them.

 

 

Doesn't Fedor have the longest on-going win-streak in all of MMA? Across all organizations and all weight classes? I mean, that's no easy feat, even if all the fights were against cans (which clearly isn't the case).

 

I can't think of anyone else...

 

From an old post of mine in a different forum:

 

Grey Dog Software - View Single Post - Affliction PPV

 

I was avoiding this topic precisely because I knew the post-fight feeling most Fedor fans have in this thread but your reply made me want to defend myself.

 

I know this wasn't directed specifically at me but it's no secret that I'm one of the ones who's explained in details why I think Fedor is overrated in this forum so I just want to point out why this is a case where you shouldn't lump all people who think Fedor is overrated as Fedor haters and why you shouldn't generalize all of our reasonings as one because you're bound to paint many of us as bad or stupid. (Note that these same criteria holds up for many on the Fedor supporter side)

 

For one thing, I'm not the only one who said we believe Fedor can beat AA and that AA didn't deserve to fight Fedor irregardless of the results. If you didn't read my reply in the previous thread in details, I also pointed out how I was not selling Andre short and he was still a former UFC champion so it wasn't like he didn't have the tools to challenge Fedor.

 

Many people like me who believed Fedor was overrated in fact never mentioned anything about luck. We also never said Andre was definitely going to give Fedor a beating or have a definite edge coming into this fight. This sentiment un-suprisingly didn't start to catch steam until around the Affliction weigh-ins. Believe me before that, the number of people who thought Fedor was overrated but could beat AA was closer to 70-30 based on general impressions across the net.

 

I'd also like to add that my disagreement with your fight should prove why some of us just think Fedor is overrated but aren't haters. For one, I disagree with your opinion that AA was winning anything. AA came to the fight with a different fight approach than people normally expect from him so it's only natural that Fedor would feel him up more. (Note that Fedor didn't exactly hide that he was going to feel up AA regardless of how he came into this fight)

 

This only seems weak because of the overrated-ness of Fedor but if you see that fight as two MMA fighters fighting in the 1st round, I saw that as a 50-50 fight before the KO with the advantage going to Fedor. You saw this when Fedor finally countered AA. It wasn't so much a huge mistake on AA's part (though there is a good chance he might feel that was the mistake that led to his loss) for trying the knee as it was AA coming in with a bad gameplan and mindset to fight Fedor.

 

There will likely lots of you balking at that thought and even thinking that I'm just trying to paint AA bad so that I can further call Fedor overrated but I'd just like to point out how this isn't new in MMA. When Anderson Silva fought Dan Henderson and many felt Dan was clearly winning the first round, many of us including Joe Rogan commentated on how Silva tends to use the first round as a feeling out process and the 2nd round finished the story that the first alluded to. Considering the fact that I was more of a Henderson fan in that one, this really isn't a case of trying to paint something I saw as different. I just tend to say what I directly feel in each fight I see. No more, no less.

 

As far as the event and to keep on-topic, it was a decent event for Affliction but they definitely need to have a much clearer roadmap from here on out on where they want to go.

 

As an event, it was on par with a better packaged pre-TUF era UFC. That means it still doesn't hold much suspense compared to a modern day UFC and Affliction has to decide whether they want to continue trying to paint themselves as this "once in a few months" mega-event or they'd rather work on establishing a more balanced event that's a UFC alternative.

 

Overall, it's an ok event for me because I really feel when Vitor was training with Xtreme Couture that this was his most legit "comeback" to the top rankings and so that got me more interested than the first event despite the poorer marketing. That said, I still feel Affliction needs to work on better bookings. First one felt as fun as watching paint dry and second one still had close to the same effect because almost all the fights, you knew who was most likely going to win and the opposition didn't provide as much challenge to the winning side but that's me. I tend to value how fighters win as much as how fighters are booked according to the pre-fight hype. I also tend to ignore most marketing and hype on an event with the exception of stuff like the UFC Countdown and often only as curiosity to what each opponent would say in an already well-booked match-up.

 

http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showpost.php?p=572517&postcount=28

 

Note: Some parts of the text below are written in a sarcastic manner.

 

Yeah, that guy who said Fedor couldn't armbar a bear was obviously on steroids.

 

...and what in God's name is an inhuman android? Is there such a thing as a humane android? OMGWTF?! Fedor by forcing you to kiss his shiny metal ass.

 

As for top HWs that Fedor hasn't beaten besides Barnett:

 

1) Frank Mir (impromptu accident shouldn't take away the fact that the guy was a top HW and former champion and just beat Nog)

 

2) Randy Couture (Duh! That guy was former HW champion and lost via drugs and then lost to a Ricco who nearly won against Nog and only lost to a Lesnar when he was way past his prime recently)

 

3) Werdum (It was close but Fabricio was coming around by then and it's debateable whether he wasn't a top contender already even before that as proven by his fight with Nog)

 

4) Antonio Silva (If EliteXC commentators said this was the guy that might just beat Fedor then this is the guy that might just beat Fedor)

 

5) Kimbo Slice (Just because he lost to a rejected UFC LHW doesn't change the fact that Bas Rutten thinks Slice can beat Fedor and Rutten is the man. Plus Fedor is 0-0 against people who took out his kidneys)

 

6) Chuck Liddle (If you haven't heard of this guy 6 years ago, he's the legendary LHW who was knocking out LHWs and promised to make the sky fall by knocking out HWs once he moves up in weight even though he has never moved up yet. Doesn't change the fact that six years ago, people thought he could KO anyone until The Junkyard Dog fell on him. Still, Fedor hasn't beaten this would've been top HW)

 

7) Kurt "Rickson Gracie" Angle (If you guys think Brock Lesnar is impressive now, you haven't seen Kurt 6 years ago. He was tooling Brock so much, people are still talking about his move to MMA today even though he has moved to MMA already and has a fearsome 11-0 record. The guy is so elusive people don't even know he's still fighting! Hell, he's so good he beats people up just by doing interviews)

 

As for who Fedor needs to beat decisively to convince me that he's number 1?

 

Many might scoff at this but I would go with Gabriel Gonzaga in either Tim Sylvia/Arlovski fighting form (i.e. he fights Fedor at around the time he gets the cut from the UFC) or obviously while he is in the UFC and coming off a victory against Heath Herring, Kongo or Big Nog.

 

Some might say the obvious thing would be to challenge the champion if Fedor comes into the UFC and I would tend to agree. However I'm speaking more from a stylistic fight. Both Fedor and GG have the same background.

 

Both are power fighters with undefeated records where GG got derailed mostly because he fought Randy Couture, was unlucky in his training against Werdum (though this doesn't take away Werdum's ability to defeat Gonzaga) and finally faced another undefeated and big HW in Carwin.

 

Fedor hasn't really faced any of this. All his fights were in essence well scheduled. Partly because of how Pride works where you rarely get back to back fights and you sometimes get gimme fights where fighting weaker opponents to build up your win streaks is almost mandatory. (Additionally this is also my criticism with WMMA though I'm not sure they fix this in WMMA 2, the game I am referring to if this post gets submitted by the Sherdog moderators. I had a topic where I wrote and explained why Randy is currently the number one guy in my list of fighters who would figure out and beat Lyoto but it never got through.)

 

The thing with the UFC booking over other orgs currently is while they aren't the best or the most stacked, it's done where if you're a legit guy interested in MMA fights, you will gain special respect for the losers as long as they bring it partially because the fights are rarely gimmes unless a fighter is so good he cleans up a division.

 

Anyways, back to Fedor-GG. To expand further, both men rely on power and their techniques are based on power. GG is going to be hungry to prove the detractors that he can take a punch from a top Heavy and Fedor will face with the first opponent that while not as technical as him, knows both the overall element of MMA well and is above average in all areas. GG on the other hand will be motivated that he will be fighting a much more better Werdum and Carwin as far as credentials go.

 

So for me, this is a case where both men will show who they really are. Gonzaga has gained enough experience for Fedor but has he gained the mindset and will he prove that Carwin was legit? (Less so Werdum since even if Fedor's better, Werdum might still be in over GG's head)

 

For Fedor, this might not be a former UFC champion but he is as legit as Rizzo, Prime Sylvia (which really was Tim KO'ing Arlovski and Rizzo) and all of Fedor's past opponents combined.

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BlizzardVeers Newbie

BlizzardVeers

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If Fedor hasn't convinced you yet, he's not going to convince you at all.

 

Tim Sylvia getting KTFO by Ray Mercer in one punch doesn't do anything to Fedor. That's like saying because Gonzaga got beaten by Werdum, and Carwin, that it makes Randy's win over him less impressive. It's also like saying because Chris Leben lost to Michael Bisping, Jason Macdonald, and Kalib Starnes, that it makes Anderson's victory over him at the time less impressive.

 

Fedor is based in speed, not power.

 

Fedor is Fedor; you either think he is #1 now, or you'll pretty much never be convinced. And imo? Beating Barnett would mean a hell of a lot more than beating Gonzaga. Maybe if Gonzaga had beaten Couture, Werdum, or even Carwin I'd say so, but he's really not anymore 'legit' than anyone else Fedor has fought. Gonzaga is riding off of head kicking Mirko, that's really it.

 

If this fight ever does happen, Fedor wins via TKO late in the first, or early in the second.

 

Btw: Werdum derailed Gonzaga long before Randy did.

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ACCBiggz Newbie

ACCBiggz

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Tim Sylvia getting KTFO by Ray Mercer in one punch doesn't do anything to Fedor.

Exactly. And it's a completely different circumstance. One punch KO's are not uncommong and because it happens doesn't mean anything. Ray Mercer is a legit boxer, even at his old age he has power. Jens Pulver said a week before the fight he thought Tim was taking him lightly, as we see he was. Tim Sylvia weighed in at over 300 pounds for this fight, not even in shape. And when you underestimate someone with power you usually find yourself flat. Not trying to legitamize Mercer as a MMA artist, but he does have power in his hands and is knows how to box.

 

As for Fedor vs. Gabe... Fedor would wreck him. Gonzaga has a thing about being in there with someone who will pressure him, he doesn't like it. And as Bliz said, Barnett > Gabe. And we'll see Fedor tear Josh apart in a couple months too.

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VTial Newbie

VTial

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sigh

 

Normally the idea that you would know what would convince me or not is proof to me that just as you would think nothing would convince me even though you don't even know me and obviously read too much into the quoted message that I didn't write, it is also proof to me that nothing I say to you is going to convince you that I have some points unless I speak roses of Fedor but I do realize some might take to think that you actually know where I'm coming from so here's my reply:

 

Speed equals power. That is just a duh portion there.

 

2nd, at their level, speed does not equal fast but equals preference and style. Third, THAT is way too focused on a single word especially a word that could just as easily fit either way since Fedor has finished fights before.

 

Finally, I don't know how you came to the impression that Barnett is more impressive. Barnett can be competitive but the guy literally avoided Fedor for so long and lost to fighters that earned their way at Fedor that at this point, it's more the average Fedor nuthugger saying "who else can he fight?"

 

Finally, you're right, had I simplistically said just Tim Sylvia vs. Mercer is the SOLE issue (which obviously it isn't since I wrote this before this fight ever happened), then there's validity into that.

 

It's not.

 

I've long felt that Tim insulted MMA by losing to Big Nog and then fighting the guy who beat him twice so that just furthered the gap between the mental mindset of both fighters to me which was IMO what I felt Tim had a borderline edge over Fedor but with that decision, I was pretty much sure Tim was going to lose to Fedor then minus the actual fight happening.

 

But the signs were showing prior to that. It wasn't just the Fedor fight, Sylvia was breaking down thinking he was a stand-up knock-out fighter. Interview after interview, you could hear him say Knock-out...Knock-out...but he never delivered.

 

Post Big Nog fight was the camel that broke the back. With the fan finally cheering him, Sylvia felt like a contender again so really his mindset against Fedor was just a wreck. It doesn't mean he's suddenly a scrub but Sylvia even at his prime was always a smart fighter utilizing his assets to fight a smart game. He wasn't a guy that was going to beat you with his athleticism especially if you're well rounded and Mir was an injury away at really ending Sylvia's title reign and that was when he was good.

 

Of course alot of this is just opinionated observation on my part but the facts are this: The guy was facing a guy whom beat a guy he lost to twice.

 

MMA Math might be overrated but it was obvious that was a borderline freakshow fight.

 

If there's one thing it got out of it though is regardless of how competitive the Barnett fight is, Tim had more balls facing Fedor the instant he got the shot where as Barnett waited and waited and waited and at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy's gameplan was solely on defeating a single opponent in Fedor considering he's never fought top competition for so long and he is being worse than Gonzaga... instead of riding off head kicking Mirko, Barnett is riding off Pride fanatics and a dubious defeat of Randy. Every top competition where he should have shined against a Mirko and a game Nog never manifested.

 

P.S. If this were Pride, Gonzaga would be more legit by just head kicking Mirko. Just ask past his prime, swing for the fences Kevin Randleman.

 

Also please please please bring up Brett Rogers vs. Arlovski if you are going to play the strawman of the fluke Knockout.

 

It's one thing to say Sylvia doesn't do anything to Fedor, but hell at least point that Straw Man as complete as possible. Neither did Arlovski deserve Fedor but many Fedor fans were clamoring for it and used that as an argument that Fedor beat two former UFC fighters both of whom coincidentally gets dropped by lesser competition which is a much neutral picture than the one you like to present. (even though it's still a straw man)

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RennikKain076 Newbie

RennikKain076

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I really dont want to get into a Fedor argument but I dont see Gonzaga being much of a test for Fedor. If he didnt mind taking a shot he could be but the guy clearly hates getting hit and Fedor hits as hard as anyone in the HW division.

 

In the UFC I think Lesnar and Carwin could both be strong tests for Fedor.

 

Carwin a guy who hits with that kind of power is dangerous to anybody. With that said his chin looks suspect so if he really gets cracked who knows what happens and we dont know how good his cardio is but anybody with a strong wrestling background, hits like a truck, and has a huge size advantage presents a interesting challenge for Fedor. No doubt Fedor is a much all around better fighter and should be a heavy favorite but a guy like Carwin would have a punchers chance.

 

Same for Lesnar he's inexperinced but he's a physically huge man, with excellent wrestling, and he hits very hard. Fighting also clearly comes naturally to him he's a great athlete with fast improving skills who wont be a easy fight for anyone. I would pick Lesnar a man with 4 fights to beat most of the HW's in MMA already the HW division in MMA just isnt very good.

 

In my opinion the likely outcome if Fedor fought Lesnar would be Fedor beating Lesnar by submission or maybe knocking him out Fedor's stand up technique is better and he has awesome head movement but Lesner has the kind of punching power to KO Fedor or anyone else if he can land a clean shot in the right spot. The odds of Lesnar making a mistake and falling into a submission a big punch are much better than Fedor getting pounded out. But if I said a huge monster athlete with awesome wrestling and big power in his hands isnt a legit test for Fedor I would be wrong. We dont really know how good Brock's chin is either so lets wait and see on that.

 

Out of the other guys I think Barnett and Mir are also good tests for Fedor. Barnett isnt the best fighter in the world but he is one of the best HW's so while I dont see how he beats Fedor I dont expect Fedor to completely destroy him I cant remember a fight where Barnett just got completely outclassed so he should be a good test to see where Fedor's skills are.

 

Mir dominated Nogueira and fought a fantastic fight. Nog did have a bum knee and a staph infection leading up to the fight though which certainly hurt his ability to train for the fight. Dana White claimed that Nog had staph as soon as 6 days before the fight. Had Nog showed up 100 percent it's still very possible Mir would have won so I dont want to take anything away from him but I think the fight wouldnt have been much closer. If Mir can handle Lesnar again I think much like Barnett he could offer a very tough test to Fedor.

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BlizzardVeers Newbie

BlizzardVeers

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This is what you said:

"As for who Fedor needs to beat decisively to convince me that he's number 1?

 

Many might scoff at this but I would go with Gabriel Gonzaga in either Tim Sylvia/Arlovski fighting form (i.e. he fights Fedor at around the time he gets the cut from the UFC) or obviously while he is in the UFC and coming off a victory against Heath Herring, Kongo or Big Nog."

I responded to THIS not the quoted message.

 

Speed equals power. That is just a duh portion there.

 

2nd, at their level, speed does not equal fast but equals preference and style. Third, THAT is way too focused on a single word especially a word that could just as easily fit either way since Fedor has finished fights before.

Fedor is a speed based fighter, despite his obvious technical skill, it's his speed that sets him apart from everyone else at heavyweight. It's not a bogus argument, because he relies on it.

 

Finally, I don't know how you came to the impression that Barnett is more impressive. Barnett can be competitive but the guy literally avoided Fedor for so long and lost to fighters that earned their way at Fedor that at this point, it's more the average Fedor nuthugger saying "who else can he fight?"

Barnett has beaten Couture, Big Nog, Aleksander Emelianenko, and gut punched Semmy Schilt. Barnett's overall credentials, skillset, and his experience level is all more impressive than Gonzaga.

 

P.S. If this were Pride, Gonzaga would be more legit by just head kicking Mirko. Just ask past his prime, swing for the fences Kevin Randleman.

What? No. Randleman was legitimate long before that knock out. It's just that no one expected him to beat "Cro Cop." The situation is completely different. Gonzaga has NO other good wins, though I did not say he was not legitimate.

 

Randleman's resume after that fight?

W: Maurice Smith - Unanimous Decision

L: Bas Rutten - Unanimous Decision

W: Pete Williams - Unanimous Decision

W: Pedro Rizzo - Unanimous Decision

L: Randy Couture - TKO in the 3rd

L: Chuck Liddell - KO in the 1st.

W: Renato "Babalu" Sobral - Unanimous Decision

W: Murilo Rua - TKO in the 3rd.

L: Quinton "Rampage" Jackson - TKO in the 1st.

L: Kazushi Sakuraba - Submission in the 3rd.

W: Mirko "Cro Cop" - KO in the 1st.

 

Sorry, Randleman had a resume about 5 times more impressive than Gonzaga had after the "Cro Cop" KO. Did I mention that Randleman was actually the UFC Heavyweight champion at one point? What belt had Gonzaga held?

 

Was Randleman past his prime at the time of this fight? Yes, but one fight does not make you legitimate, no matter what organization you fight in.

 

Nothing ever came from "Nino" Schembri, you know.

 

It's one thing to say Sylvia doesn't do anything to Fedor, but hell at least point that Straw Man as complete as possible. Neither did Arlovski deserve Fedor but many Fedor fans were clamoring for it and used that as an argument that Fedor beat two former UFC fighters both of whom coincidentally gets dropped by lesser competition which is a much neutral picture than the one you like to present. (even though it's still a straw man)

Tim Sylvia was the UFC Heavyweight champion for the majority of time that he'd been in the UFC. He beat Ricco Rodriguez, Andrei Arlovski, and Brandon Vera. He lost to Big Nog, Frank Mir, Andrei Arlovski and Randy Couture during his tenure. His exit was a loss to Nogueira that was almost ended in a KO for Tim in the first, and then he started to lose steam in the 2nd, and was submitted in the 3rd by a resilient Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (arguably THE single most decorated Heavyweight in MMA history, in that he's fought more top competition than anyone else.)

 

Fedor destroys him in 36 seconds; Tim takes a year off; Tim gets KO'd by Ray Mercer in 9 seconds. How does this effect Fedor? Did he somehow feel the residuals of Ray Mercer's one punch KO of Tim? Now, granted, you are saying this isn't your argument, but that's what it seems like.

 

Andrei Arlovski was considered the #2 HW at the time of the fight by most groups (which I thought was bull, since Nog had just gotten crushed by Mir. I argued ad nauseum that Mir was #2.) He was on a pretty good win streak, especially for Heavyweight, having just beaten Werdum, O'Brien, Rothwell, and Nelson. He was a legitimate contender on a winning streak at the time.

 

Fedor knocked Arlovski out when Arlovski was incredibly focused in under 3 minutes; Rogers knocked Arlovski out because Arlovski backed straight up against the cage like an idiot (and he hits hard.) There was nothing fluke about Rogers KOing Arlovski. But, how this effects Fedor, I don't know.

 

Fighters LOSING to someone else after losing to someone impressive, does NOT diminish the impressive win from before. No matter what Shertards tell you. Fedor beat Arlovski when he was game. Fedor beat Sylvia when he was still game. The wins were impressive.

 

You're saying that you're painting a neutral picture, yet, you're calling a match between two decorated heavyweights a freak show in Fedor vs Sylvia, and you're trying to discredit the Arlovski win because he was KO'd by Brett Rogers? Then, you say you think that Fedor fighting Gonzaga is a good idea. Why? Because he matches up well skill wise. I can understand that, but, a win over Gonzaga wouldn't do more for Fedor's legacy than those previous two wins mentioned.

 

You know who this really effects, though? The UFC. The two guys that were at the top of their Heavyweight division for YEARS got demolished by Fedor in under 4 minutes total, and two un-ranked Heavyweights in less than 31 seconds total.

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ACCBiggz Newbie

ACCBiggz

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You know who this really effects, though? The UFC.

No it doesn't. Sylvia left the UFC post loss and was one of the most hated fighters in the organization, didn't and doesn't effect anything. Arlovski remained popular in the UFC, but even after his exit no one seemed to care as the UFC kept moving forward and growing. Him losing didn't do anything to the UFC because he was already removed for some time --- their losses have the same effect as others before them; ie. Randleman, Newton, etc. I'd be willing to wager more people remember him losing to Sylvia twice, once very boringly, than beating the likes of Werdum and definitely O'Brien since that was on an undercard that was never shown.

 

However, I'll agree losing to Rogers does not diminish anything he or Fedor has done. Rogers is a hard hitting striking prospect. Arlovski is known for having a weak chin and Andrei just got caught, but does not take away from Fedor's victory.

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VTial Newbie

VTial

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Forgot to add that saying that Werdum derailed Gonzaga the first time is like saying Fedor was fighting Big Nog at around the time he was fighting Arona which is something Fedor never had to face outside of TK who was really undersized and was fading away fast from the sport where as both Werdum and Gonzaga have proven themselves legit top fighters even with their early credentials.

 

Rennik, no one is saying those aren't great fights but like you said, you're just giving Carwin and Brock one punch chances. Hardly a fair assessment of fighters especially considering Gonzaga had only 1 incident where he didn't liked getting hit: Werdum where it was rumored he didn't have his Muay Thai coach with him and have some non-fight related problems.

 

The guy fricking stood up with Randy while barely able to breathe while he could have layed and prayed.

 

Some felt he partially allowed Carwin to stand up to make an exciting fight for the fans.

 

You also do not get the instinct to head kick Crocop if you're afraid of getting hit. It's one thing to do it at the start like Randleman did but Gonzaga could have easily shoot for a takedown instead of a kick. The guy loves striking and that's why he tagged Crocop with a strike.

 

You can question his chin but it's foolish to question a BJJ guy who doesn't like to get hit if most of his losses were from the stand-up.

 

@Blizzardveers,

 

and I was pointing out you're statement of Sylvia's KO as related to the quoted message.

 

Your message of Fedor being a speed fighter is pedantic to me. It just too nitpicky for me to take seriously especially since you also jump at the fact that Fedor is a technical fighter too.

 

I'm not interested in addressing it further than what I already said. Styles don't make #1 ranked fighters on their own.

 

This is just a red herring on your part.

 

Barnett has beaten Couture, Big Nog, Aleksander Emelianenko, and gut punched Semmy Schilt. Barnett's overall credentials, skillset, and his experience level is all more impressive than Gonzaga.

 

Like I said, Pride fanatics.

 

Barnett is credible but again, nice way to skim the controversiality and size and styles advantage of Barnett over Couture in their fight.

 

Again, nice way to say that he eventually defeated Big Nog.

 

Again, Pride fanatics love their Aleks and Semmy.

 

Pride had a way with hyping their fighters. Ultimate proof being guys like Wanderlei Silva who couldn't get pass Tito but suddenly became an Axe Murderer.

 

It didn't mean he wasn't improving or a great fighter but you could easily make him invincible.

 

Hell Sokodjou basically did two lesser impressive Gonzagas in Pride and the fanatics instantly raised this guy how many rankings above?

 

The only advantage Barnett has is experience. The rest outside of their style specialty needs to be seen to be tested just like Crocop needed to fight Gonzaga and not just win it on paper based on his credentials

 

and way to underrate Gonzaga and overrate Randleman.

 

Even in his prime, Randleman was questionable. The guy was more athletic Severn than Coleman and that's why he lost to Rutten in a razor thin decision.

 

He was still however good but he was a fighter who if he went past his prime wouldn't go beyond the style he won with minus a key moments.

 

In this case, he developed a one punch strike no different to Carwin having one.

 

It doesn't make him any less legitimate but more legitimate than Gonzaga?

 

Please. One is past his prime and the other is approaching his prime.

 

One was going to improve despite his losses (where he showed shades of improvements) and the other was going to keep working on delaying his lack of well-roundedness.

 

In the end, one was fighting in Pride because he couldn't keep up with the upcoming UFC roster even when dropping down into LHW and the other was fighting in the UFC where his losses came from a broken nose, a disputable fight where he was fighting the first guy who beat him and had out of fight problems and a fight where he was tagging a fighter hard and got tagged back.

 

All this mind you with him showing brilliance in each of those fights so to say that Randleman's resume is better is like saying Coleman had a better resume coming into his fight with Fedor than even Randy had when he challenged him because Coleman was a definitive Pride Tournament Champion while Randy had looked weak in the ring.

 

I'm sorry, I just don't respect a fighter who says, a fighter should not fight to prove himself because of his past resume rather than someone who actually looks at the way each fighter fought.

 

The fact is Randleman would pretty much also be a non-legit/legit fighter as Gonzaga did when he fought Randy. The problem you seem to be having is ignoring the Pride fanbase who excused this because Randleman had a title before even when he was basically beaten out of the UFC and went to Pride for the money instead of the competition and his hype as a top fighter was pretty much gone until Pride fans get mystified that someone can knock out their Pride destroyer like that and so they used his past credentials (which was all based on winning by wrestling) to say he was a legit contender for Fedor.

 

If this was Gonzaga in Pride or out of the UFC, he might not had have the title but people would easily say that he was undefeated or he had only lost to Couture, Werdum and Carwin. Fighters none who has ever fought Fedor.

 

Face it, you yourself already alluded to how Arlovski was manufactured Bull and yet you can't see that the same Fedor fans can manufacture a winning streak Bull out of Gonzaga considering Arlovski's winning streak outside of a ticky tack fight with Werdum was against lesser competition than what Gonzaga fought in the UFC? Again, please. The only reason it's not being talked about is because it's currently not booked.

 

I will however praise you for this:

 

Fedor knocked Arlovski out when Arlovski was incredibly focused in under 3 minutes; Rogers knocked Arlovski out because Arlovski backed straight up against the cage like an idiot (and he hits hard.) There was nothing fluke about Rogers KOing Arlovski. But, how this effects Fedor, I don't know.

 

Anyway for your last few comments, you seem to be relying on others being impressed by Fedor's performance when even prior to the Arlovski and Sylvia loss, I was already giving points as to why Fedor wasn't impressing me as his win from the point of view of a PBP #1 HW fighter.

 

I'm being neutral because I'm not comparing an Emperor's New Clothes with another Emperor's New Clothes. I understand as much as theorizing can be on point, at the end of the day, fighters prove themselves in a fight and not in debates. That's why I said Sylvia and Fedor was a borderline freakshow fight. Keyword on "borderline" and not freakshow as you seem to like to read with tinted glasses.

 

As far as his legacy, Fedor doesn't need to prove anything to cementify his legacy. As you keep saying and yet now not applying to Fedor, when you reach that stage of hype, no one loss is going to ruin you.

 

It might make your fans commit suicide with their forum accounts like what happened to Crocop but it's way too late for that and like I said, this isn't about Emperor's New Clothes legacy. It's more about the level of competition he fought and his avoidance of top competition that makes him overrated and not on what the other guy's resume is. To me, resume alone is only as relevant in making fights happen and not in determining the outcome and it's been proven by Pride's booking and by Arlovski and even by Pro-Wrestling that resume can be manufactured.

 

As for the UFC, you seem to think it is like Pride where it tries to manufacture stars. That ship has long since sailed past Ken Shamrock and Dana's experiment with Chuck failed with Randy. The UFC today is more in making money from fights than it is about legitimizing a division though it is of course still an essential part of legitimizing the UFC but manufactured stars are long gone. Their problem is more on keeping depth with all the divisions especially with fighters being able to clean the MW division.

 

That's why they even keep TUF. They're more worried today in developing contenders for top fighters that fans would be hyped up about than in proving that their has beens fighters were legit because they beat x less reputation fighter. Believe me if anything, Sylvia and Arlovski did UFC a favor by leeching Affliction to death at exactly the point when they got rid of them which to Dana would be just further proof that cross-promotion fights are the wrong way to go.

 

@ACCBiggz

 

Thanks. We don't see eye to eye on Fedor maybe but at least you can understand why Randleman, Sylvia and Arlovski doesn't impact the UFC.

 

To be fair, you're right that it doesn't diminish Fedor as much as it diminishes Fedor's competition which was always my point for why he is overrated for his status.

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BlizzardVeers Newbie

BlizzardVeers

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Okay, I'll play along.

 

Your message of Fedor being a speed fighter is pedantic to me. It just too nitpicky for me to take seriously especially since you also jump at the fact that Fedor is a technical fighter too.

 

I'm not interested in addressing it further than what I already said. Styles don't make #1 ranked fighters on their own.

 

This is just a red herring on your part.

Do you even know what a red herring is?

 

You know who this really effects, though? The UFC. The two guys that were at the top of their Heavyweight division for YEARS got demolished by Fedor in under 4 minutes total, and two un-ranked Heavyweights in less than 31 seconds total.

THIS is a red herring, and an intentional one. (Also, not serious, given my other arguments.)

 

Fedor is a speed based fighter, despite his obvious technical skill, it's his speed that sets him apart from everyone else at heavyweight. It's not a bogus argument, because he relies on it.

THIS is not; this is a response to an argument that Fedor is not a speed based fighter.

 

Barnett is credible but again, nice way to skim the controversiality and size and styles advantage of Barnett over Couture in their fight.

 

Again, nice way to say that he eventually defeated Big Nog.

 

Again, Pride fanatics love their Aleks and Semmy.

#1: He beat Nog in their FIRST fight, he almost submitted him at the end of it.

#2: Size means nothing in the Heavyweight division, otherwise everyone would be in love with Fedor for being smaller than 99% of the opponents he's faced in the HW division, and he's only as tall as GSP (depending on who you're listening to.)

 

And you're just repeatedly calling me a fanatic (nuthugger), which is why my arguments somehow don't make sense? Honestly? With you calling me a PRIDE fanatic for calling Aleksander Emelianenko, and Semmy Schilt good wins, I think you're just trolling.

 

Pride had a way with hyping their fighters. Ultimate proof being guys like Wanderlei Silva who couldn't get pass Tito but suddenly became an Axe Murderer.

..or Wanderlei's style was just acclimated more to the small ring? I have a hard time believing Tito would win in a PRIDE rules + the ring. His style was generally based on using the cage, as was Randy, who if you'd like to be a nitpicker about things like that, didn't do so dandy in RINGS. A promotion where, I'd like to add, Fedor dominated.

 

Hell Sokodjou basically did two lesser impressive Gonzagas in Pride and the fanatics instantly raised this guy how many rankings above?

Hahaha. Sokoudjou KO'd Little Nog, and Ricardo Arona back to back. That's more impressive than KOing “Cro Cop.” He was put up in the rankings, and a lot of people just slobber on him. I didn't care much for Sokoudjou, and I expect Mousasi to run train on him in the tourny, but, that's neither here nor there.

 

and way to underrate Gonzaga and overrate Randleman.

I didn't underrate Gonzaga.

 

Gonzaga's credentials

ADCC Submission Wrestling Championships

- 2006 Winner CBJJO Copa Do Mundo Black Belt Pesadissimo Winner CBJJ Mundials Black Belt Pesadissimo

- 2005 2nd CBJJO Copa Do Mundo Black Belt Pesadissimo 3rd CBJJO Copa Do Mundo Black Belt Absolute 2nd place ADCC +99 kg

- 2003 2nd CBJJO Copa Do Mundo Black Belt Pesadissimo 2nd CBJJO Copa Do Mundo Black Belt Absolute

- 2000 =3rd Mundials black belt Super-Pesado

 

MMA

Win: Mirko Filipović - KO (Head Kick)

 

I NEVER said Gonzaga was not a good fighter, not once; I never said he as not legitimate; I never called him overrated. I said he had ONE good win in MMA, and that was "Cro Cop." He has not done anything else in MMA, and has floundered badly since that fight except against people he should have destroyed.

 

Your argument made it seem as if you were completely writing off Randleman, when he was 32 at the time of the fight with "Cro Cop." Which is generally considered to be the male athletic prime. He proceeded to execute one of the greatest slams in the history of MMA in the fight after that, though he still lost.

 

In the end, one was fighting in Pride because he couldn't keep up with the upcoming UFC roster even when dropping down into LHW and the other was fighting in the UFC where his losses came from a broken nose, a disputable fight where he was fighting the first guy who beat him and had out of fight problems and a fight where he was tagging a fighter hard and got tagged back.

 

All this mind you with him showing brilliance in each of those fights so to say that Randleman's resume is better is like saying Coleman had a better resume coming into his fight with Fedor than even Randy had when he challenged him because Coleman was a definitive Pride Tournament Champion while Randy had looked weak in the ring

You really are just trolling at this point and I'll explain why: Randleman lost to Bas Rutten, Randy Couture, and Chuck Liddell in the UFC. That is all. His last fight in the UFC was a win over Renato Sobral. You're completely attempting to discredit Randleman, and trying to say that it was just a one shot KO that got him attention. People knew who Randleman was long before that, and he was very much a 'what-if' story for MMA fans, and still is. By the way, before the fight with Mirko, he had competitive fights with Kazushi Sakuraba, and Quinton Jackson, though he lost.

 

Also, you're going to badmouth Coleman? Really? Coleman smashed Goodridge, Frye, and Severn in the UFC, and was the first EVER UFC Heavyweight champion. He had a couple bad runs, then came back from it and crushed Igor Vovchanchyn for the PRIDE 2000 GP title. Igor. Vovchanchyn. He then smashed Allan Goes, and proceeded to get submitted by Nogueira. What happened in the meantime? He beat Don Frye again in a war. Then he faced Fedor in the opening round to the PRIDE 2004 Heavyweight tournament, and lost emphatically. I would argue that Coleman had a far better resume, however, I would also say that Coleman really hadn't done anything impressive in recent times. He then got KO'd by a rebounding Cro Cop, etc, etc.

 

And again, I am not trying to discredit Gonzaga. I'm simply stating FACT: he has one singular good win (yes, it's very impressive); he has not been a champion in MMA; he has lost 3 of his past 5 fights, badly. I'm not saying he's a bad fighter, again, I'm saying in terms of MMA credentials, and historical perspective - a win over him right now would not mean anything compared to a win over Josh Barnett.

 

The fact is Randleman would pretty much also be a non-legit/legit fighter as Gonzaga did when he fought Randy. The problem you seem to be having is ignoring the Pride fanbase who excused this because Randleman had a title before even when he was basically beaten out of the UFC and went to Pride for the money instead of the competition and his hype as a top fighter was pretty much gone until Pride fans get mystified that someone can knock out their Pride destroyer like that and so they used his past credentials (which was all based on winning by wrestling) to say he was a legit contender for Fedor.

I'd like to also point out that Gonzaga was incredibly legitimate coming off the "Cro Cop" win. He was being hailed as the next big thing, and was expected to run through Randy and anyone else in the division. He disappointed fans in that fight, then the next, then beat two nobodies, then lost to Carwin. (Yes, Justin McCully really doesn't mean anything.)

 

The PRIDE fanbase excused the fight, because it was a tournament, and Randleman had just knocked Mirko "Cro Cop" out cold.

 

If this was Gonzaga in Pride or out of the UFC, he might not had have the title but people would easily say that he was undefeated or he had only lost to Couture, Werdum and Carwin. Fighters none who has ever fought Fedor.

I never said Gonzaga was not dangerous or legitimate as a fighter, that would be stupid. I'm just repeating myself at this point though.

 

Face it, you yourself already alluded to how Arlovski was manufactured Bull and yet you can't see that the same Fedor fans can manufacture a winning streak Bull out of Gonzaga considering Arlovski's winning streak outside of a ticky tack fight with Werdum was against lesser competition than what Gonzaga fought in the UFC? Again, please. The only reason it's not being talked about is because it's currently not booked.

What?

 

Anyway for your last few comments, you seem to be relying on others being impressed by Fedor's performance when even prior to the Arlovski and Sylvia loss, I was already giving points as to why Fedor wasn't impressing me as his win from the point of view of a PBP #1 HW fighter.

Again, I'll repeat my earlier statement, "If Fedor hasn't convinced you yet, he's not going to convince you at all." The point here is, that Fedor is held to a completely different standard. He knocked out a game opponent in THREE minutes on a bad night; people are still criticizing the performance. Anderson Silva hasn't looked too fantastic lately; GSP doesn't seem to be able to finish emphatically anymore; BJ just got crushed (by GSP.) If you're going to try and point out that Fedor hasn't looked impressive, you need to point out that the other P4P fighters haven't looked that impressive either (aside from GSP, and I'm not bashing him.)

 

I'm being neutral because I'm not comparing an Emperor's New Clothes with another Emperor's New Clothes. I understand as much as theorizing can be on point, at the end of the day, fighters prove themselves in a fight and not in debates. That's why I said Sylvia and Fedor was a borderline freakshow fight. Keyword on "borderline" and not freakshow as you seem to like to read with tinted glasses.

You're not being neutral. You're needlessly attacking a 30-1-1 competitor who's been undefeated for 9 years, and who's ONLY defeat is a 17 second cut during a RINGS tournament from an errant elbow - despite elbows being illegal - Fedor still took the loss due to the tournament format. You're also calling a fight between a man who just lost by submission to Nogueira, beat Brandon Vera previous to that, and lost to Randy Couture via a LNP decision a "borderline" freak show. That's not neutral.

 

Freak show fights? Minowa vs Bob Sapp. HMC vs Minowa. Fedor vs HMC. Fedor vs Zulu. Sudo vs Butterbean. Those are freak show fights. There was nothing even borderline about Tim Sylvia fighting Fedor Emelianenko that remotely constitutes you even implying that it was a freak show fight. By the by? Even though you say 'borderline', you're still implying a freak show, by saying freak show. Which is ludicrous to begin with.

 

It might make your fans commit suicide with their forum accounts like what happened to Crocop but it's way too late for that and like I said, this isn't about Emperor's New Clothes legacy. It's more about the level of competition he fought and his avoidance of top competition that makes him overrated and not on what the other guy's resume is. To me, resume alone is only as relevant in making fights happen and not in determining the outcome and it's been proven by Pride's booking and by Arlovski and even by Pro-Wrestling that resume can be manufactured.

... alright. You obviously never watched PRIDE, or you were more interested in the UFC. One of the two. I'll explain this to you. PRIDE attempted to get people to fight Fedor, most people ducked him. Those that didn't generally had to go through Nog or Cro Cop. They did not make it. You're trying to make it seem like ALL of Fedor's fights were simply 'manufactured' wins. You know why Fedor fought Hunt? Because Mirko wouldn't/couldn't fight him. You know why Fedor fought Lindland? Because no one else would fight him at the time (a certain bald-headed fellow was offered the chance to fight him...) You know why he fought HMC? I don't either, but it was for the Japanese.

 

This is not fanaticism: people DUCK him. Fedor is open to any fight that is presented to him. Just because he is not in the UFC does not mean he is ducking top competition. There is a pulse outside of the UFC for MMA, and it's only getting stronger.

 

As for the UFC, you seem to think it is like Pride where it tries to manufacture stars. That ship has long since sailed past Ken Shamrock and Dana's experiment with Chuck failed with Randy. The UFC today is more in making money from fights than it is about legitimizing a division though it is of course still an essential part of legitimizing the UFC but manufactured stars are long gone. Their problem is more on keeping depth with all the divisions especially with fighters being able to clean the MW division.

I've criticized the UFC booking system for a long time, but it's not because it 'manufactures' people. I don't know where you got it in your head that I was trying to say this, but that's just not correct. The UFC booking systems shoves top fighter after top fighter against one another, or decent fighter against decent fighters - constantly. They don't try to build anyone up. It's either sink or swim in the UFC, that's why their records are generally so terrible. Much like a lot of the Japanese fighters were privvy to this particular policy of just being tossed in with the wolves. If the UFC were concerned about making more money, they'd build fighters up as much as possible; their booking system is silly from that stand point. Boxing has a far superior booking system, and the UFC and MMA as a whole could really learn from it.

 

That's why they even keep TUF. They're more worried today in developing contenders for top fighters that fans would be hyped up about than in proving that their has beens fighters were legit because they beat x less reputation fighter. Believe me if anything, Sylvia and Arlovski did UFC a favor by leeching Affliction to death at exactly the point when they got rid of them which to Dana would be just further proof that cross-promotion fights are the wrong way to go.

Ugh.

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RennikKain076 Newbie

RennikKain076

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Vtial it's entirely possible Carwin or Lesnar could take Fedor down and pound him out I didnt mean they have only a one punch chance but as hard as they hit one soild punch could do it. I dont really know what you want me to say im not picking Lesnar to heel hook Fedor or Carwin to pull off a arm triangle if they win it'll be by tko or ko. But if you dont consider Fedor a heavy favorite against either or those guys you simply arent giving Fedor enough credit. But like I said both Carwin and Lesnar have a shot at beating him but no I wouldnt pick either of them. Just like im not picking Alves to beat GSP but I certainly wont say he doesnt have a chance.

 

You said this in a earlier paragraph: Quote:

Face it, you yourself already alluded to how Arlovski was manufactured Bull and yet you can't see that the same Fedor fans can manufacture a winning streak Bull out of Gonzaga considering Arlovski's winning streak outside of a ticky tack fight with Werdum was against lesser competition than what Gonzaga fought in the UFC? Again, please. The only reason it's not being talked about is because it's currently not booked.

 

 

I know this isnt toward me and Im not sure what your really saying here but I think your saying Gonzaga's winning streak was more impressive than Arlovski's so i'll give my view on this.

 

Between losing to Werdum the first time and losing to Couture Gonzo's wins were against Charlie Brown, Walter Farias, Kevin Jordan,

Fabiano Scherner, Carmelo Marrero, and Cro Cop. By my count other than Cro Cop none of his other opponents were even top 40. Arlovski's wins between the 2nd Sylvia loss and the Fedor loss were against Márcio Cruz, Fabricio Werdum, Jake O'Brien, Ben Rothwell, and Roy Nelson. 3 of those 5 guys are easily top 15 today.

 

Vtial your to hard on Fedor man you say people like me and BlizzardVeers are just fanboys who hail him as god but you hold him to a higher bar than we do easily.

 

Ive never once seen you on here talking about GSP getting ko'd by Serra, Ive never once seen you on here talking down Anderson Silva for looking completly unmotivated in the Cote or Leites fights, ive never once seen you on here talking about BJ Penn giving fights away in the past because he had terrible cardio.

 

But you have no problem at all getting on here and dissecting every major fight Fedor has ever had and down playing his victory's.

 

Just because you dont like Arlovski or Sylvia doesnt mean they arent top level fighters. Especially a year ago Carwin, Lesnar, Velasquez, Overeem, and Rogers hadnt yet proven that could handle the top level guys. Arlovski and Sylvia like them or not were proven dangers when Fedor fought them.

 

I would love to see him fight Mir, Carwin, Lesnar, or Overeem. And i'd love to see him fight Velasquez, Rogers, or Dos Santos after theyve had about two more years to improve. But in the mean time why dont you chill out and enjoy watching him fight a tough fighter in Josh Barnett and win or lose see where he goes from there. Enjoy the fact that the top HW in the sport is fighting high level competition again UFC or not.

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VTial

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Do you even know what a red herring is?

 

To quote you:

 

"THIS is not; this is a response to an argument that Fedor is not a speed based fighter."

 

Riiight. Obviously this conversation was about Fedor not being a speed based fighter. Uh huh.

 

#1: He beat Nog in their FIRST fight, he almost submitted him at the end of it.

#2: Size means nothing in the Heavyweight division, otherwise everyone would be in love with Fedor for being smaller than 99% of the opponents he's faced in the HW division, and he's only as tall as GSP (depending on who you're listening to.)

 

1. Looks like you have since gone from one fight not determining anything to one fight determining what kind of credible opponent you are. I'm not saying it's wrong but it's kind of funny hearing someone who said Gonzaga is riding one match from knocking out Crocop yet as soon as a Pride fan favorite gets mentioned, double standards gets justified.

 

2. Fedor is still actually larger than Randy and actually has power in his hands where as Randy only really got to that point up to the first Chuck fight and even then it was more ground and pound rather than a true power striking ability. To be honest, I can't believe someone can mention something like "size means nothing in the HW division."

 

Apparently you've been under a rock when Brock Lesnar came and how some HWs moved down to LHW because of his presence.

 

And you're just repeatedly calling me a fanatic (nuthugger), which is why my arguments somehow don't make sense? Honestly? With you calling me a PRIDE fanatic for calling Aleksander Emelianenko, and Semmy Schilt good wins, I think you're just trolling.

 

For someone who could easily nitpick stuff like Fedor's style, you apparently can't comprehend grammar:

 

Again, Pride fanatics love their Aleks and Semmy.

 

No, trolls usually say stuff like:

 

Okay, I'll play along.

 

or accuse others of trolling and constantly reinterpreting meanings that aren't in the sentences.

 

But hey, I'm not saying you're actually one (unlike you) unless you eventually admit to trolling.

 

..or Wanderlei's style was just acclimated more to the small ring? I have a hard time believing Tito would win in a PRIDE rules + the ring. His style was generally based on using the cage, as was Randy, who if you'd like to be a nitpicker about things like that, didn't do so dandy in RINGS. A promotion where, I'd like to add, Fedor dominated.

 

RINGS rules =/= Pride rules

 

Tito would have a field day in Pride. Instead of Couture or Liddell, Tito gets Rampage and has an excuse of Rampage being more athletic. Add to the fact that like Wanderlei, Tito fought most of his great fights against smaller competition, the weaker Japanese competition combined with smaller size means he'd be on the same level as Josh Barnett except he can work the mic better.

 

Then add the fact that his opponents are a Shogun and a Wanderlei that has problems with wrestlers and man oh man, he might not win every one of his matches but you can bet he will be getting rematches and classic rubber matches.

 

Also apparently you've never seen or have forgotten Jardine-Wanderlei and also forgot that the reason Tito was even fighting Wanderlei was because Wanderlei came off a win in the UFC and was heavily hyped. You also probably forget that Wandy's first UFC opponent wasn't a wrestler taking advantage of the cage or a striker taking advantage of angles but an upfront battle with Belfort where Wandy lost the striking battle in the center of the Octagon even though it was a controversial stoppage.

 

Hahaha. Sokoudjou KO'd Little Nog, and Ricardo Arona back to back. That's more impressive than KOing “Cro Cop.” He was put up in the rankings, and a lot of people just slobber on him. I didn't care much for Sokoudjou, and I expect Mousasi to run train on him in the tourny, but, that's neither here nor there.

 

Not according to the time Gonzaga ko'd Crocop according to most Crocop fans. No one was shocked with Machida man-handling Sokodjou and him losing to Cane despite his so called "more impressive" feat according to you.

 

Not to mention no one said Little Nog and Ricardo Arona would be destroying a division unlike a certain Mirko was was signed in the UFC.

 

Most importantly, if both events never happened, and you made a poll, guess which one gets the higher vote of most likely to happen?

 

Two good fighters that aren't known for their invincible chin getting KO'ed?

 

or

 

A champion BJJ fighter knocking out a K-1 level striker with a similar kick he used to win most of his impresive fights that according to his fans made him the #2 best HW fighter at the time and who was being seen by lots of MMA fans as highly destroying a weak HW division and it would happen by not only the BJJ fighter taking down his world class sprawl which is he was supposedly known for and then getting stood up when said fighter was apparently active and winning the fight on the ground against that K-1 level striker?

 

I NEVER said Gonzaga was not a good fighter, not once; I never said he as not legitimate; I never called him overrated. I said he had ONE good win in MMA, and that was "Cro Cop." He has not done anything else in MMA, and has floundered badly since that fight except against people he should have destroyed.

 

Your argument made it seem as if you were completely writing off Randleman, when he was 32 at the time of the fight with "Cro Cop." Which is generally considered to be the male athletic prime. He proceeded to execute one of the greatest slams in the history of MMA in the fight after that, though he still lost.

 

Greatest slams? Please, it didn't work and it would have been illegal in most fights and you call that the greatest?

 

Razzle Dazzle =/= Greatest Slams.

 

and yes, most were writing off Randleman until the Crocop fight. In fact that was supposed to be finally Crocop's chance of getting Fedor after Pride milked his win streak to death and as with most manufactured attempts go, it went up in flames and Pride had to back track and make Randleman fight with Fedor and paint Randleman as having "come back" (because he had no hype prior to that)

 

so yes, you're writing off Gonzaga by saying Randleman was more credible of a fight because of his past credentials. Not to mention, you rely solely on fight wins as opposed to fight performance. Something anyone watching vids of both even at their prime can attest to that Gonzaga despite not being a HW champion had a more impressive showing.

 

You really are just trolling at this point and I'll explain why: Randleman lost to Bas Rutten, Randy Couture, and Chuck Liddell in the UFC. That is all. His last fight in the UFC was a win over Renato Sobral. You're completely attempting to discredit Randleman, and trying to say that it was just a one shot KO that got him attention. People knew who Randleman was long before that, and he was very much a 'what-if' story for MMA fans, and still is. By the way, before the fight with Mirko, he had competitive fights with Kazushi Sakuraba, and Quinton Jackson, though he lost.

 

Keywords: he lost.

 

What if? The only what if Randleman had was what if Coleman had more athleticism and he was younger.

 

That was completely shut down in the Rutten fight where Randleman lay and prayed and Coleman was shouting for him to finish him making it looked like Rutten's elbows hurt Randleman badly.

 

And even before that he had his own Severn-Shamrock 2 with Rizzo and looked only good in avenging Coleman's looses.

 

Don't even get me started about Couture. That's why I often praised Couture for that.

 

Even at that time, with his skillsets, Randy shouldn't have gone past Randleman but he made Randleman looked like the weakest athletic wrestler he has ever faced as far as top competition went.

 

Think about it, the guy had more muscle and weight and athleticism than Tito and yet he couldn't do what Barnett and Brock did and this was in his absolute peak even though you like to point to his age because even then the game was already catching up fast to Randleman just as it had to Severn.

 

and the Chuck fight was the worse showing he had outside of the Randy fight. So much so even you like to point to Babalu.

 

A Babalu who mind you outside of his grappling credentials was even still an unknown even when he fought Chuck after the 3rd Randy fight had gone which was years later and he still lost like an unknown and is generally considered an above average who goes down to competition he should and this was when Babalu was hyped up as highly improved because at the time of his Randleman fight, Babalu wasn't even a great fighter so you saying he won that is like saying Fedor beat HMC so he should beat Brock just as easily.

 

Of course he did! or else it would just cement him as one of the fastest top stars of the sport at the time to putter out and he would have absolutely no bargaining chip coming into Pride.

 

Also, you're going to badmouth Coleman? Really? Coleman smashed Goodridge, Frye, and Severn in the UFC, and was the first EVER UFC Heavyweight champion. He had a couple bad runs, then came back from it and crushed Igor Vovchanchyn for the PRIDE 2000 GP title. Igor. Vovchanchyn. He then smashed Allan Goes, and proceeded to get submitted by Nogueira. What happened in the meantime? He beat Don Frye again in a war. Then he faced Fedor in the opening round to the PRIDE 2004 Heavyweight tournament, and lost emphatically. I would argue that Coleman had a far better resume, however, I would also say that Coleman really hadn't done anything impressive in recent times. He then got KO'd by a rebounding Cro Cop, etc, etc.

 

Lol, bad mouth Coleman? You're the one insulting Coleman's heart by acting like some sort of encyclopedia for his fights.

 

If you had watched the energy of those fights at the time, Coleman didn't just had a bad run.

 

He was over. Watch the Smashing Machine and you'll see a Coleman that looked more lost than he was at any point today.

 

The guy was heartbroken. He was Randleman that lost to THAT Babalu.

 

He was in the GP because of his past resume but ONLY on his resume. Hell, guys like you were probably the only ones that would say he belonged outside of people like me who were hardcore Mark Coleman fans.

 

His win with Igor wasn't just a crushing win. As humorously as people like to portray his victory celebration, that was it for Coleman.

 

That fight was why Coleman is still fighting and believing himself today. You HAVE NO RIGHT in saying he just had a bad run and had done nothing impressive lately.

 

He might not have been a legit threat as a top contender but Coleman stopped Shogun once and he nearly stopped Shogun in their 2nd fight with a younger Shogun also gassed.

 

It is a testament to Coleman that he was so long gone from the rankings to come back and do what Severn/Shamrock/Royce would have dreamed of doing so for you to say that he was a contender to Fedor because he beat some guys his level is an insult to the fact that he shouldn't even be fighting against Fedor except that he was constantly used as one of the named fighters to match up against Fedor when Pride had zero idea how to handle two manufactured stars in Nog and Fedor especially when Fedor constantly defeated Nog.

 

And again, I am not trying to discredit Gonzaga. I'm simply stating FACT: he has one singular good win (yes, it's very impressive); he has not been a champion in MMA; he has lost 3 of his past 5 fights, badly. I'm not saying he's a bad fighter, again, I'm saying in terms of MMA credentials, and historical perspective - a win over him right now would not mean anything compared to a win over Josh Barnett.

 

No, a win over Barnett is just as useless. Barnett having a win over him would be everything to Barnett but Barnett was just another guy in Pride who when he got past somebody like Nog, constantly failed against another fighter and the only reason Pride didn't even book him was he isn't as weak as Coleman so there was a threat of Barnett being a spoiler who constantly wins the belt and loses it and Pride just didn't want to have any of that.

 

and FACT: 0 of Gonzaga's 3 losses were bad losses. He broke his nose against Couture and many praised him for his heart at that time when many were saying he was just riding off Crocop's KO.

 

He dominated Werdum and was aggressive against him which impressed everyone considering how bad AA was afraid of Werdum and that fight was seen as not only one of the most exciting early round fights in the HW division for a while (especially considering the lack of reputation of both fighters) but many were still astounded by what happened to Gonzaga then.

 

Same thing with Carwin. Not only did Gonzaga's beatdown of Carwin made MMA fans legitimately see Carwin as a threat for both taking those shots and then being able to stand up after being taken down by a champion BJJ fighter who's specialty was the top game but it's generally considered that it made both Gonzaga and Carwin legit that night. Compare that to Kongo-Cain and it isn't even closed to a disappointment and even that latter fight wasn't unanimously considered a disappointment by many.

 

I'd like to also point out that Gonzaga was incredibly legitimate coming off the "Cro Cop" win. He was being hailed as the next big thing, and was expected to run through Randy and anyone else in the division. He disappointed fans in that fight, then the next, then beat two nobodies, then lost to Carwin. (Yes, Justin McCully really doesn't mean anything.)

 

The PRIDE fanbase excused the fight, because it was a tournament, and Randleman had just knocked Mirko "Cro Cop" out cold.

 

Keyword is "excuse". In Pride you give "excuses". In UFC you give "disappointed".

 

Nuff said.

 

You're not being neutral. You're needlessly attacking a 30-1-1 competitor who's been undefeated for 9 years, and who's ONLY defeat is a 17 second cut during a RINGS tournament from an errant elbow - despite elbows being illegal - Fedor still took the loss due to the tournament format. You're also calling a fight between a man who just lost by submission to Nogueira, beat Brandon Vera previous to that, and lost to Randy Couture via a LNP decision a "borderline" freak show. That's not neutral.

 

Freak show fights? Minowa vs Bob Sapp. HMC vs Minowa. Fedor vs HMC. Fedor vs Zulu. Sudo vs Butterbean. Those are freak show fights. There was nothing even borderline about Tim Sylvia fighting Fedor Emelianenko that remotely constitutes you even implying that it was a freak show fight. By the by? Even though you say 'borderline', you're still implying a freak show, by saying freak show. Which is ludicrous to begin with.

 

You apparently never listened to how some Fedor fans justified how HMC was a tough opponent.

 

Whatever reason most knowledgeable fans gave to HMC for beating Fedor, most gave to Tim.

 

You're just again relying on the Emperor's New Clothes of past credentials which Tim obviously had over HMC but even then, who looked more impressive against Fedor?

 

It just shows that style match-ups override whatever vision you have of title fights.

 

... alright. You obviously never watched PRIDE, or you were more interested in the UFC. One of the two. I'll explain this to you. PRIDE attempted to get people to fight Fedor, most people ducked him. Those that didn't generally had to go through Nog or Cro Cop. They did not make it. You're trying to make it seem like ALL of Fedor's fights were simply 'manufactured' wins. You know why Fedor fought Hunt? Because Mirko wouldn't/couldn't fight him. You know why Fedor fought Lindland? Because no one else would fight him at the time (a certain bald-headed fellow was offered the chance to fight him...) You know why he fought HMC? I don't either, but it was for the Japanese.

 

You just proved why Pride had a razor thin division and why Fedor's wins weren't as impressive. Yes beating Nog and Cro Cop made him a good fighter but he also got a lot of rest from Pride delaying the Cro Cop fight and Henderson already showed the blue print for beating Nog but he just wasn't big enough.

 

Sure the UFC HW division was also thin but prior to the 3rd fight, Arlovski was a legitimate threat to Tim. He fought differently. He struck differently. Same thing with the young Mir and the Monson fight.

 

This is not fanaticism: people DUCK him. Fedor is open to any fight that is presented to him. Just because he is not in the UFC does not mean he is ducking top competition. There is a pulse outside of the UFC for MMA, and it's only getting stronger.

 

Actually it's getting weaker by you people saying top fighters need not prove themselves. Things like Tim fighting Fedor just sends the message to fighters that they only need to market themselves and they can get away with losses and ask for more money while showing and avoiding fights until they've milked it.

 

It's why Fedor also intelligently "didn't" say in an interview that he preferred Brock over Randy because he liked Randy and only said it AFTER Randy had gone back to the UFC. It's the reason why you get guys like Rothwell trying to fight Arlovski. It's why Randleman managed to have a lackluster showing and go to Pride with a higher salary and it's also why EliteXC built Kimbo.

 

Alot of that has to do with the bookers in general but fighters' managers aren't idiots. When you fans act like some guy has nothing to prove by fighting another fighter or going to another place, the business in general will understand that they act like Kimbo is a few fights away from the #1 HW MMA fighter and even though most hardcore MMA fans know the truth, casual fans still buy it because hardcore fans also justify the same with other fighters so it's a mixture of hardcore and casual cause and reaction and you can make anyone legit. Sure, as a fanbase they can say they didn't intend it that way but that's what happens when masses don't look for the cause but just look the other way.

 

Only when the aura of a fighter not fighting and hence hurting his ranking can there be a day where non-UFC fighters can get as much respect as UFC fighters because more promotions would be willing to gamble and build more legit fighters rather than rushing in with a champion that they could say is a legit threat.

 

It may not seem that way to you though cause you seem to rely on credentials and it's precisely credentials that hurt the unknown good fighter outside of the UFC when they get overlooked despite their performances and it's the known fighters that give the aura of "Oh, I can do that but I don't want to be in the UFC" and ask for higher salaries that buries promotion like EliteXC and Affliction and essentially constantly hurt non-UFC MMA in reality. (though the effects are subtle enough because MMA is still a young sport.)

 

I've criticized the UFC booking system for a long time, but it's not because it 'manufactures' people. I don't know where you got it in your head that I was trying to say this, but that's just not correct. The UFC booking systems shoves top fighter after top fighter against one another, or decent fighter against decent fighters - constantly. They don't try to build anyone up. It's either sink or swim in the UFC, that's why their records are generally so terrible. Much like a lot of the Japanese fighters were privvy to this particular policy of just being tossed in with the wolves. If the UFC were concerned about making more money, they'd build fighters up as much as possible; their booking system is silly from that stand point. Boxing has a far superior booking system, and the UFC and MMA as a whole could really learn from it.

 

Please, build up/manufacture whatever you call it. It doesn't change the fact that Pride had more freakshow fights and the UFC has built their TUF fighters into champions despite you're so called theory that UFC doesn't build anyone up.

 

Hell, that's what they do. They "build". What Pride does is even worse, they "manufacture". Constantly tossing unknowns with contenders and making the contenders look like wolves and making the wolves fight each other and hyping it up as a stacked card and overpaying "named" fighters and going bankrupt and hurting the sports in general.

 

@Rennik

 

Vtial it's entirely possible Carwin or Lesnar could take Fedor down and pound him out I didnt mean they have only a one punch chance but as hard as they hit one soild punch could do it. I dont really know what you want me to say im not picking Lesnar to heel hook Fedor or Carwin to pull off a arm triangle if they win it'll be by tko or ko.

 

Because your reasoning matches with what Gonzaga could do to Fedor but despite Brock's chin being untested and Carwin getting beat by Gonzaga on the stand-up prior to that, you still say:

 

I really dont want to get into a Fedor argument but I dont see Gonzaga being much of a test for Fedor. If he didnt mind taking a shot he could be but the guy clearly hates getting hit and Fedor hits as hard as anyone in the HW division.

 

Remember Gonzaga actually took down Cro Cop where ease Brock has only took down people via a punch and where he was supposed to have a wrestling advantage and Carwin got taken down by Gonzaga.

 

Between losing to Werdum the first time and losing to Couture Gonzo's wins were against Charlie Brown, Walter Farias, Kevin Jordan,

Fabiano Scherner, Carmelo Marrero, and Cro Cop. By my count other than Cro Cop none of his other opponents were even top 40. Arlovski's wins between the 2nd Sylvia loss and the Fedor loss were against Márcio Cruz, Fabricio Werdum, Jake O'Brien, Ben Rothwell, and Roy Nelson. 3 of those 5 guys are easily top 15 today.

 

Again, this is a case of you don't just look at the rankings but also on the performance.

 

3 of those 5 fighters were easily top 15 because they fought Arlovski while he was ticky tacking everyone until Rothwell and even then it wasn't old Arlovski aggression-like beatdown.

 

Meanwhile Gonzaga's wins have been utter destruction and is only shy of Carwin's own utter destruction of his opponents.

 

Hell if Gonzaga fought like Arlovski in the Werdum fight, he would have out-pointed Werdum plus the threat of a knockdown.

 

Vtial your to hard on Fedor man you say people like me and BlizzardVeers are just fanboys who hail him as god but you hold him to a higher bar than we do easily.

 

Ive never once seen you on here talking about GSP getting ko'd by Serra, Ive never once seen you on here talking down Anderson Silva for looking completly unmotivated in the Cote or Leites fights, ive never once seen you on here talking about BJ Penn giving fights away in the past because he had terrible cardio.

 

But you have no problem at all getting on here and dissecting every major fight Fedor has ever had and down playing his victory's.

 

How often do you see me here? I have lots of criticisms against those fighters but read back to how and why I wrote my replies early in this topic and tell me if it makes sense if I mention criticisms of GSP, Silva and BJ.

 

Just because you dont like Arlovski or Sylvia doesnt mean they arent top level fighters. Especially a year ago Carwin, Lesnar, Velasquez, Overeem, and Rogers hadnt yet proven that could handle the top level guys. Arlovski and Sylvia like them or not were proven dangers when Fedor fought them.

 

Exactly.

 

I was rooting for Tim when people were booing him and I was a fan of Arlovski before the 3rd Sylvia fight.

 

That is why I feel strongly about being considered just a Fedor "hater" or a whatever hater.

 

To me, how can anyone not read my points and just counter with some kind of credentials that could have easily been gotten out of Wikipedia or some kind of knee jerk "trying to be politically correct" way of rudeness when if you've watched the fights, you'd know what I mean by the form of the fighters and how this and that fighter can seem overrated.

 

It's not even consistent. You even have Blizzard here calling me bad mouthing Coleman when he just wrote a paragraph version of Fight Finder and when Sylvia and Arlovski gets shown to being vulnerable, what is the hindsight to that?

 

It doesn't change Fedor's wins because at the time "yadda yadda" yet if people actually tried to comprehend they would have seen me point out that that "even then" there were signs and it isn't just oh x fighter is bad because of this but that x fighter was bad because of this "at that time" and yet time and time again, it's just "fight finder" and then insult you're wrong his credentials are so and so and you're just a hater. It's jarring and like I said, it's still just a forum but maybe I have more respect for people like you and Blizzard who try to "act" polite when being impolite but it's still...damn it! I'm going back to lurking.

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