DOTM: July Nominations

[Nevermore]

1. This board's strength is its equality. Any tangible division, no matter how great or small, not only destroys that but paves the way to abuse later.
   
2. Having inductees "cheat" the normal process diminishes their accomplishments. Instead of having to appease the whole board, they just had to appease the HoF. "If a HoFers friend gets inducted through the back channels, how many might wonder if she/he truly deserved it?"
   
3. It can easily breed resentment and discouragement if a writer feels the HoF is discriminating against them. \
   
4. If HoF power is later revoked (due to abuse, or just change in board climate) what do you do with the HoFers inducted via the "back channels?" "Everyone up there was voted by a majority of their peers....except for that guy that one time"
   
5. Although it may seem like a trivial thing now (an auto-2nd or whatever) all it takes is a precedent and a charismatic leader to pave the way towards something far worse. Anyone who knows their history knows this. It's might just be a 2nd vote now, and then a special forum, and then they'll have veto power, and so on. Is it likely, maybe, maybe not, but considering the whole legal system is built off of precedent, don't ever underestimates it's power or impact.
   

 

edit: As for #, remember we've run this last year and the year before. The '07's and '08 diaries have had their chances to win, and have either done so or failed for whatever reason. I can see the argument for having a category specifically for '05 and '06 (just lump them together I say) and having the current HoF inductees to operate the same as usual. It has worked very well in the past, we have a great group of guys in the HoF, I don't see any need to "mess with success" and alter the methods.

 

Responses in order:

1. As stated before, the HoF, by its very nature, is a tangible division. That is the point: to recognise those most deserving of praise. And we have shown we are capable of conductingn ourselves without abuse or belittlement.
   
2. It's not a "cheat". We are having a discussion and coming to a consensus on the system. Thus, if proposed and accepted, it cannot possibly be considered "cheating". Your point about inducting friends does have a certain element of truth to it, I guess, but, firstly, no one is that much of a jack ass to not induct deserving writers and, secondly, the only friends I've made on the diaries forum has been as a result of their writing (I'm sure the same is true of most).
   
3. Again, the HoF is discriminatory; it is a process of discrimination just not negative discrimination. The only reason resentment could arise is if people felt an induction was undeserved and, whilst I am not suggesting this was your implication, it's a tad offensive/unreasonable to say "Hey, you might have been around a long while and written some good stories but I don't trust your judgement!" To me, that could be the only root of resentment.
   
4. I don't know what you mean by "revoked". The idea itself is created by members and, thus, will/should not be cancelled and the inductees were decided by members so it would be rather contradictory to revoke membership. I doubt anyone's gonna become a prick overnight, anyhow... apart from me if I'm posting before coffee .
   
5. Sorry, this point I just can't take seriously (hopefully, that's not offensive). This is the GDS diary forum not inter-war Germany; I like to think there is a difference . None of us are moderators and, thus, have no power over one another. Unless Blas weighs in like a grumpy Scotsman.
   

 

...and the edit: Firstly, no one has "had the chance to win and failed". Did Stone Cold have the chance to "win" the hall of fame but failed 'cos he wasn't as good as Andre or Hogan or Bret? No, he was just inducted later so the induction classes weren't flooded. The amount of time passed is meaningless. As I keep saying, it's the HoF not a diary of the year... we already have that.

 

As for having had a great system already... we haven't had one. We've done it twice and the numbers have changed each year along with the induction process. It's all very well to say "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Problem is, it ain't fully made yet.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[Self]

It's a fun little fluff competition about wrasslin' fan fiction. You dudes don't need to take it so seriously.

 

Bunch of guys nominate possible inductees > Bunch of guys vote on those nominations > Top 3 get in > Hall of Fame Class of '09 > High fives ensue

 

I guess there could also be a "HoFamer's Choice" catagory. Wherein the elite decide on one guy to join their ranks, without mass voting. I highly doubt this process will become corrupt. I don't see why anyone would want to induct a friend, as there's no real benefit to being a member. I don't see why anyone would want to induct a sub-par writer, as it makes the whole group look bad. I don't see any potential corruption. It's not like inducting someone onto the Oscar commitee, where members get sent free DVDs. There's a benefit to that. The Diary HoF is just a fun piece of fluff. It's awesome like that.

[Rathen4]

Yeah honestly this is all very silly and I'm quite saddened to have seen Nevermore trot out the "I'm more experienced than you" shtick that he has done several times. Completely taken the shine off the whole experience, really. Good work.

[Nevermore]

Yeah honestly this is all very silly and I'm quite saddened to have seen Nevermore trot out the "I'm more experienced than you" shtick that he has done several times. Completely taken the shine off the whole experience, really. Good work.

 

Aha... wondered when you'd wade in.

 

Exactly where is the "I'm more experienced than you shtick" used in a derogatory manner? Only time I used it was to encouarge a bit of chilling out.

 

Amazing how everyone can be impressed by (and comment upon) the tact and courtesy displayed in a conversation until you come along.

 

Don't you have an inexperienced diary writer whose first language isn't English to bully?

 

Unless, of course, you could find something more constructive to do with your time...

 

EDIT: and for the record, Self, I am perfectly chilled. Just making suggestions. There's too much hippy in me to get worked up .

 

Ooh, or better yet, Rathen, perhaps you could stick a random and unnecessary arsey post in a records thread just to agitate someone who puts tremendous effort into supporting eveyone on the board. Say, there's a good idea.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[d_w_w]

I still don't care how the nominees are inducted. But I think 5 is probably too many.

 

Personally, I'd go for 2 (1 by vote, 1 by current HOF members).

[Nevermore]

I still don't care how the nominees are inducted. But I think 5 is probably too many.

 

Personally, I'd go for 2 (1 by vote, 1 by current HOF members).

 

Y'know, I'm starting to get the feeling that we'll have a poll to decide the number of inductees before holding ballots to decide the inductees themselves.

 

Mistaken's gonna love this .

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[d_w_w]

Y'know, I'm starting to get the feeling that we'll have a poll to decide the number of inductees before holding ballots to decide the inductees themselves.

 

Mistaken's gonna love this .

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

 

Voting is fun

[d_w_w]

As it stands though, last year's WWE HOF:

 

5 singles workers (Austin, Steamboat, Watts, Koko, and Finkel)

 

2 tag teams/stables (Funks & Von Erichs)

 

So, they had 7 inductees for the year, despite pulling from a history complete with hundreds of wrestlers, managers, and stables.

 

We have a good number of writers on the board... but not enough that we should be inducting 5 per year, IMO. 2 (definitely), 3 (I can be sold on).

 

This is why, I think, I support a HOF inductee though... so that the folks that get "passed" and stop writing can still get inducted [very similar to the veteran's committee in Major League Baseball]

[D-Lyrium]

I thought the same thing... if we induct 5 people a year, before long not being in the hall of fame will be more noteworthy than being in it.

 

The Hall of Fame should be for the very best diary writers, that deserve more recognition than merely a DotM/Y award. Not just 'because we think we probably should induct people'.

 

I agree with Oldschool, everyone should put forward a list of, say, 3 writers. Any writer that appears on more than a certain percentage (70% is good) of lists gets into the HOF.

 

If you want current HoFers to have a 'special' selection, give them the list of people who were on - say - 50-70% of the lists but didn't quite make it, and if they so choose they can induct one of those writers.

 

The HoF should be a HoF, not a list of names of good diary writers.

[praguepride]

It's a fun little fluff competition about wrasslin' fan fiction. You dudes don't need to take it so seriously.

 

Bunch of guys nominate possible inductees > Bunch of guys vote on those nominations > Top 3 get in > Hall of Fame Class of '09 > High fives ensue

 

I guess there could also be a "HoFamer's Choice" catagory. Wherein the elite decide on one guy to join their ranks, without mass voting. I highly doubt this process will become corrupt. I don't see why anyone would want to induct a friend, as there's no real benefit to being a member. I don't see why anyone would want to induct a sub-par writer, as it makes the whole group look bad. I don't see any potential corruption. It's not like inducting someone onto the Oscar commitee, where members get sent free DVDs. There's a benefit to that. The Diary HoF is just a fun piece of fluff. It's awesome like that.

 

 

Well said, Self. Well said.

 

I'm fine with the HoFers selecting a candidate to get the "HoFers pick" tag on their name to help encourage people to read more, along the lines of "if you only read 1 writer's work, read this one". I just don't think that we need the HoFers to make a good selection.

[Rathen4]

Aha... wondered when you'd wade in.

 

Exactly where is the "I'm more experienced than you shtick" used in a derogatory manner? Only time I used it was to encouarge a bit of chilling out.

 

Amazing how everyone can be impressed by (and comment upon) the tact and courtesy displayed in a conversation until you come along.

 

Don't you have an inexperienced diary writer whose first language isn't English to bully?

 

Unless, of course, you could find something more constructive to do with your time...

 

EDIT: and for the record, Self, I am perfectly chilled. Just making suggestions. There's too much hippy in me to get worked up .

 

Ooh, or better yet, Rathen, perhaps you could stick a random and unnecessary arsey post in a records thread just to agitate someone who puts tremendous effort into supporting eveyone on the board. Say, there's a good idea.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

 

I don't think there's any need for a childish post such as yours, I was merely commenting on what I felt was an unneccessary attempt at "boasting" (for want of a softer word) to win an argument.

 

I'm sorry you're still so angry that I posted in the hall of records thread, that really was an awful crime.

 

And hooray, standard internet defence #31 "I'm not mad at all" after typing out what is actually quite a nasty, offensive post.

 

Thanks!

[praguepride]

I thought #31 was "I broke the dam"....

[Nevermore]

I thought #31 was "I broke the dam"....

 

No, I broke the f**king dam! With a boat... it wasn't mine.

 

I don't think there's any need for a childish post such as yours, I was merely commenting on what I felt was an unneccessary attempt at "boasting" (for want of a softer word) to win an argument.

 

I'm sorry you're still so angry that I posted in the hall of records thread, that really was an awful crime.

 

And hooray, standard internet defence #31 "I'm not mad at all" after typing out what is actually quite a nasty, offensive post.

 

Thanks!

 

Haha, I'm the childish one? 'Kay...

 

...and a nasty and offensive post? Where? At no point do I think I've come off as offensive apart from (possibly) where I said I couldn't take a point seriously... and quickly pointed out it wasn't meant offensively.

 

Prague, have you actually felt offended by our discussion? It certainly was never my intention.

 

edit: and, for the record, where was the boasting? At every single stage, I have mentioned how, firstly, reforming this process doesn't benefit me; that I'm merely trying to help the system and, secondly, that I didn't consider myself "better" than anyone... I've merely been writing longer. In view of the fact that I am in the hall of fame, I'm extremely conscious of coming across as arrogant and, despite the fact that I sadly think there's a certain inevitability to that occurence, I have tried extremely hard to mitigate it. If anyone thinks I have "boasted", I apologise whole-heartedly. However, you, Rathen, are the only one to mention it thusfar.

 

So, I'm genuinely supposed to believe you are offended by what I have worded perfectly tactfully when you have previously come out with such gems as:

 

That's a pretty dumb assumption to make. You would have to be a real moron to manage that.

 

Sadly, that's a closed thread, so, won't link directly but err... http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showthread.php?p=645760#post645760

 

and, of course, after having the "good grace" to delete that post in the records thread...

 

My god, you just keep sobbing away.

 

It's gone now, so stop crying. Thanks.

 

let me guess, this one needs deleting too now, right?

 

I don't hold a grudge for that single post, Rathen... far from it. I merely find it difficult to repsect individuals who conduct themselves with such rudeness and immaturity. Sadly, you fit such criteria despite my many efforts to be congenial and understanding towards you.

 

Now, if this discussion has really lost all shine to you, kindly leave those who are still interested to it.

 

Thanks!

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[praguepride]

Easy there, friend

[Rathen4]

He's so calm and relaxed, can't you tell?

 

Enjoy your discussion, folks.

[praguepride]

 

It was a south park reference.

[Phantom Stranger]

I don't think there's any need for a childish post such as yours, I was merely commenting on what I felt was an unneccessary attempt at "boasting" (for want of a softer word) to win an argument.

 

I'm sorry you're still so angry that I posted in the hall of records thread, that really was an awful crime.

 

And hooray, standard internet defence #31 "I'm not mad at all" after typing out what is actually quite a nasty, offensive post.

 

Thanks!

 

And standard internet defence #23: "I'll pick out one specific part of your post that I can blow out of proportion in the hope of thus discrediting your entire argument."

 

You are, if memory serves, either a or a student teacher in the UK - I believe I'm correct in saying it was you who, long ago, discussed this with Marcel Fromage. I live in the UK, near a teacher training college, and I've dated a teacher - I've encountered their levels of stress, the frustration at overwork, etc - so I can understand how, when you get to a hobby site with your free time, you might be inclined to blow off steam.

 

I can understand how a teacher might find himself moved to comment unfavourably on others' competence with grammar and spelling.

 

And to my recollection I've never had an argument with you.

 

The thing is, even taking these things into account - well, Nevermore's just provided some links. Your stock attitude has had no positive, encouraging, constructive elements, merely being destructive criticism. When one then adds in incidents like the Hall of Records, one can see how you might develop a negative reputation among those who frequent the boards enough that your posts stick in their memory.

 

Of course, one might argue that as a teacher you're stressed and feel the need to blow off steam. One might suggest this is a compensatory factor. One might suggest that a day full of having to offer constructive aid leaves one wishing to tear down afterward.

 

To do so, one would have to ignore Marcel Fromage, who has been one of those community members who've tried to nurture new posters, and who is also a teacher in the UK. It's a safe thing to say that Marcel made me feel welcome when I debuted a ROF diary while his own was rolling. It's a safe thing to say that his comments helped keep me going. It's safe to say this because this is me saying it and I know how I was feeling at the time.

 

Now I'm (somehow) at the point where I get the occasional PM from other diarists asking for advice or feedback. And when I answer, I do so partly recalling Marcel's efforts toward myself and others. I can do no less than was done for me, after all.

 

There is, to me, a real sense of community here. Advice, comments, alt pics, banners, PPV logos, title belts... all of them get generated by community members giving up their free time. (Hell, the Shingen Miyazaki in my TCW diary is an entire re-render created when I asked for an alt of Shingen.)

 

Positivity. A constructive spirit. An attempt to foster community spirit. These are things we could do with more of. And we can certainly live without posts that eat away at them.

 

In the interests of full disclosure, yes, I'm one of those who washed their hands of Deezy midway through his diary period. Of course, I'm also one of those who offered advice beforehand, and one of those who recommended reinventing himself before trying again.

 

So how about we leave the big discussion that praguepride and Nevermore were having to be a discussion and we stop crapping on it, hm?

[praguepride]

Easy there, friend

 

I'm not your friend, buddy!

[praguepride]

Easy there, friend

 

I'm not your friend, buddy!

 

I'm not your buddy, guy!

 

I'm not your guy, friend!

 

Go on, click a quote. I dare you!

[The Final Countdown]

I agree with Oldschool, everyone should put forward a list of, say, 3 writers. Any writer that appears on more than a certain percentage (70% is good) of lists gets into the HOF.

The problem with that, as I see it, is the separation between Real-World and C-Verse. There are plenty of people who ONLY read one or the other, which could make any one writer hitting 70% a rather daunting task, if that writer specializes in one specific "verse."

 

I'm on board with saying 5 inductees might be a bit high. 3 or 4 sounds like a better number to me. If the current HOF members don't get to induct someone outright, then 3 works. If they do get an automatic spot to give to someone, 4 sounds better.

[Hyde Hill]

Ehm I think both nevvy and prague have made their positions quite clear atm. When the HoF starts up again it might be a good idea to have a thread on potential procedure beforehand.

 

With that being said shall we get back too the matter at hand? E.G. the nominations for this month's writers? There are still people in need of a second or a nomination et al that could deserve one.

[Greg McNeish]

There are still people in need of a second or a nomination et al that could deserve one.

 

Like me!

 

Wait!

 

That makes me sound like a prick.

 

Oh, right. I am a prick.

 

Like me!

[mistaken]

It's a fun little fluff competition about wrasslin' fan fiction. You dudes don't need to take it so seriously.

 

Bunch of guys nominate possible inductees > Bunch of guys vote on those nominations > Top 3 get in > Hall of Fame Class of '09 > High fives ensue

 

I guess there could also be a "HoFamer's Choice" catagory. Wherein the elite decide on one guy to join their ranks, without mass voting. I highly doubt this process will become corrupt. I don't see why anyone would want to induct a friend, as there's no real benefit to being a member. I don't see why anyone would want to induct a sub-par writer, as it makes the whole group look bad. I don't see any potential corruption. It's not like inducting someone onto the Oscar commitee, where members get sent free DVDs. There's a benefit to that. The Diary HoF is just a fun piece of fluff. It's awesome like that.

 

The hell it won't!!! Any one willing to send me $100 US can get into the hall of Fame. Thats my final offer.

 

Aha... wondered when you'd wade in.

 

Exactly where is the "I'm more experienced than you shtick" used in a derogatory manner? Only time I used it was to encouarge a bit of chilling out.

 

Amazing how everyone can be impressed by (and comment upon) the tact and courtesy displayed in a conversation until you come along.

 

Don't you have an inexperienced diary writer whose first language isn't English to bully?

 

Unless, of course, you could find something more constructive to do with your time...

 

EDIT: and for the record, Self, I am perfectly chilled. Just making suggestions. There's too much hippy in me to get worked up .

 

Ooh, or better yet, Rathen, perhaps you could stick a random and unnecessary arsey post in a records thread just to agitate someone who puts tremendous effort into supporting eveyone on the board. Say, there's a good idea.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

 

For the Record English is Deezy's first language.

 

Y'know, I'm starting to get the feeling that we'll have a poll to decide the number of inductees before holding ballots to decide the inductees themselves.

 

Mistaken's gonna love this .

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

 

Busted a gut so hard reading this exchange.

 

Rathen man, the comments are noted, I know we can point to negative comments, but if i wanted to take the time I can point to places where you have also helped some new bloods that wanted to take the advice.

 

Figured I should point to the good where we had already pointed to the bad.

 

now off to wade through all this ****, I brought upon myself to find the nominations.

[mistaken]

updated I think.

 

If I missed your second or nomination, just PM them to me, and I apologize for not just putting the HOF stuff up in a separate post.

[Bigpapa42]

I'm just going to throw out that I appreciate the hard-working that Mistaken and any others put into all of this, then I'm going to quietly tip-toe back out of the thread...