Match Style Classifications

[Foxcutter]

So, I'm streamlining my TEW 2008 database back (wading through -- and eliminating -- a massive amount of duplicate and unnecessary entries after downloading a huge add-on package) and I'm currently stalled on Match Types; verifying the entries and re-classifying them into their appropriate Match Styles, when deemed necessary (I'm a bit of an OCD-ish perfectionist that way).

 

Asides from the fact that it is an unenviable task (and I'm only half-heartedly dividing my attention between it and other things of interest), there are a few different kind of matches that I'm having trouble sorting out and was wondering if I could get different opinions on how they should classified (or re-classified as the case may be) as I really want to start a new game but feel I can't do so until I get the database properly set.

 

The first one(s) that I'm second guessing, in the original database, are the Cage Classic, Cage Escape, and Cage Modern matches. They are all classified as being 'Brawl Based', but I'm having my doubts about the Cage Classic one; I'm kind of divided as to whether it shouldn't just be identified as 'Regular' -- as I've seen some incredible mid-to-late 70s and 80s classics where many of them weren't just about slamming people's heads into the side of the cage but were real technical masterpieces -- but, I'm thinking, if I re-classify that one then couldn't you make the case that the other two types of cage matches should be re-classified also? I mean, they share the same kind of set-up, after all, and, when you get down to it, isn't it all about the wrestlers involved that determine the style of the match? And, if that's the case, then shouldn't all cage matches be identified as a 'Regular', with the style of the match being determined by the wrestling strengths of the performers involved and not whether or not a cage structure surrounds the ring?

 

I'm having the same kind of difficulties distinguishing between 'Brawl Based' and 'Hardcore' matches, too. An Alley Fight, Ambulance, Boot Camp, or Street Fight match (just to name a few) are all classified as 'Brawl Based' but usually end up involving weapons at some point so, in reality, wouldn't that make them all 'Hardcore'? Sticking with this kind of nitpicking I could make the case that there are only really four kind of match types in the game: Regular, Eye Candy, Hardcore, and High Spot. Now, just to clarify, all of this is not a critique of the original data, just that I'm really stuck and looking for some hard-and-fast rules to make the task a little easier to sort through so I can get back to playing. Has anybody else gone through or thought about this? Like I said, it would help if the OCD wasn't making me second-guess all this stuff but part of the problem is that I want my game to be as realistic as possible and, the more I think about it, the more I want to shoehorn the data into my own particular wrestling world view.

 

Any insight or help would be appreciated.

 

Foxcutter.

[Hyde Hill]

When in doubt go regular but it is more as in advantagous for a certain type as opposed to only these workers can work this well I think with the classifications altough someone with a really low skill in the one necessary will struggle.

 

As too Hardcore vs Brawl many brawl based will also see weapons and blood involved because of the non dq but it is not always the case. But the hardcore ones have the goal/expectation of lots of weapons/blood etc. So a texas death match would be brawl but an extreme rules one would be hardcore.

[D-Lyrium]

The trick is, as Hyde illuded to, not to think of it as "Only Brawlers will do well in a Brawl-based match". All that means is, if you have two good Brawlers in a match type based on Brawling, then the match is likely to be better than it would've been if it was a standard 1vs1 match.

 

Take two brawlers and put them in a cage, for example, and they have plenty of new stuff to work with. Two technicians inside a cage aren't going to do anything all that much differently from two technicians in a regular ring. And anything they do differently is going to rely on - guess what... - their Brawling skill. However, those two technicians aren't going to have a sucky match just because it's a 'brawl based' match type.

 

Likewise, two brawlers in a submission match won't go out and stink up the joint, assuming they're still good brawlers. They match isn't suited to them, but if they're good at their craft they can work a story around it. Two submission wrestlers, however, would generally have a better match with those rules. Same for high fliers in Ultimate X. Brawlers or Technicians COULD do it, sure, but it was designed to play to the high fliers' strengths, be they spot monkeys, cruiserweights, luchadores or regular wrestlers with good aerial skills.

 

The difference between Brawl and Hardcore, in my view, is intent. If you have an Stretcher Match or an Ambulance Match or a Casket Match any other of those stupid gimmicks, it's Brawling based because generally that's what happens most - the idea is to beat your opponent senseless enough that they can't respond and fight back when you try to complete the match's objective. No different than a Last Man Standing match in that regard. Sure, there'll be the odd chair shot, or the obligatory 'throw him into the ring steps' spot, there may even be a table break or two, but that's not exactly 'hardcore' is it? The Dudleyz did that in just about every match in their WWE run.

 

Whereas Hardcore matches and Deathmatches are Hardcore based because in those you EXPECT to see lots of over-the-top weapon shots, blood, stupid gimmicks like staple guns, etc. That's the 'point' or the 'focus' of the match: It's not on the brawling, it's on the weapons and 'high risk' danger spots. If you put two out-and-out brawlers of the Undertaker/Kane/Rock/post-2000 Steve Austin ilk in a Deathmatch, it'll be ok, sure, but it won't be much more amazing. Put two insane psycho bastards like Necro Butcher and Mick Foley in one, however...

 

It's not about "who CAN fight in these types of matches and do ok?"

It's about "who actively BENEFITS from being in these types of matches?"

 

Thus, in my own opinion:

Cage matches of all types are Brawl-based.

 

Any match that involves beating the hell out of your opponent until he can't prevent something happening ('on a pole' matches, Cage Escape matches, Ambulance/Stretcher/Buried Alive/Casket etc, etc) are Brawl Based.

 

Any match that explicitly implies weapons will (not 'can' but 'will') be used to a great extent and are the main focus of the match - Hardcore, Death, Bring Your Own Weapons, Singapore Cane, etc, etc are Hardcore based. Tables matches I would say were Brawl-based (because the object is to beat your opponent senseless so they can't avoid it when you put them through a table. in general, the only 'weapon' used is the table itself), but that's arguable so put them here if you wish.

 

Technical-based matches should be easy: Any match that relies on technical wrestling skill to win (basically Submission/Ultimate Submission Matches)

 

Anything that's designed for high-fliers to show off (Ultimate X, etc) is High Spot based. NOT Ladder Matches.

 

Anything that genuinely can be used equally well by anyone is left to Regular. Such as Ladder matches (since you can book them any number of ways and everyone benefits), I Quit matches (since you can go about obtaining the admission any way you want), etc, etc.

[TeemuFoundation]

Two technicians inside a cage aren't going to do anything all that much differently from two technicians in a regular ring.

Bret and Owen say hi.

[Remianen]

Bret and Owen say hi.

 

Owen was a technician?

[MrOnu]

Owen was a technician?

 

No, he was a nugget.

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

[D-Lyrium]

Bret and Owen say hi.

 

My very next sentence, which you conveniently didn't quote, also says hi. Nothing 'extra' they did in that cage - nothing they needed the cage for - relied on their technical prowess. As far as I remember at least... a welcome excuse to watch it again.

[Foxcutter]

Take two brawlers and put them in a cage, for example, and they have plenty of new stuff to work with. Two technicians inside a cage aren't going to do anything all that much differently from two technicians in a regular ring. And anything they do differently is going to rely on - guess what... - their Brawling skill. However, those two technicians aren't going to have a sucky match just because it's a 'brawl based' match type.

 

See, I think that was part of the problem -- my own preconceptions of what Match Styles meant and fond remembrances of matches past between two people whom you wouldn't necessarily classify as brawlers, stuck inside a chain-linked cage for sixty minutes, and pulling out everything in their repertoire to put on a terrific match (a few great NWA ones come to mind) -- the cage was just incidental to the action.

 

In point of fact, it seems that lately, in the real world at least, that hardly any two opponents whom you'd both truly classify as a 'brawlers', are seen in a cage match together, nowadays. But since televised wrestling is becoming less and less important to me, I could have very well missed that key piece of evidence that destroyed my theory from the get-go.

 

Anyhow, thanks for clearing that up, guys. As long as I know that I'm not going to get penalized for booking anybody other than a brawler in a cage match, then I'm fine leaving it brawl-based.

 

Foxcutter.

 

P. S. Okay, I promise not to make a habit of this, honest, but Shoot Fight: Regular or Technical? It's listed as 'Regular' in the original database but, again, this may just be my preconceptions, but if the idea behind the match is to disable your opponent via a certain set of personal abilities or skills...

 

Thanks in advance, once again.