The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[lazorbeak]

Edit: double-post.

[liontamer]

If you don't understand why being called a "whip-cracker" is not the same as being called less than human, we're not having a conversation. They are not even close to being equal. Not even "gee maybe," just... not at all. Even a cursory look at the term means it refers to whipping your own animals, which is obviously a huge insult when other, unfree people can be bought to do that for you. Beyond which, one is a flat-out racist term, one is a term referring to a certain class of white people; by definition, one is more racist.

 

 

For any other questions, I'll refer you to this John Mulaney bit:

 

 

 

As explained, private speech admitting to actual racism =/ words in a wrestling promo.

 

I don't look to comedy (or wrestling) for my morals. We're obviously not going to agree (and this as my last post on the subject as it's obviously only going to further divide people and take away from the thread), but in my book all three are very pejorative terms that will never come from my mouth toward another person and that should just be more or less phased out of the language. Just because one word has become more taboo than the others (well in one variation - the other is actually far more common, when is the last time you heard a white guy call another white guy either of the terms above? they don't, it's insulting) does not make it ok or less offensive to use the others.

 

The present day connotations that you personally apply to the N-word does not change it's abundant use in pop culture-sometimes with different connotations associated with it-, particularly rap (I would image we'll be hearing it frequently in the NWA movie coming out), it does not reflect that originally the term was neutral for any person with dark skin, and that in the mountain areas of the western US it (in the -ur variety) was basically = to dude in the 1800s, and later became a racial slur towards slaves (and the only reason it's racial is because that was the most obvious divide between owners and slaves- though all 13 colonies did have black slave owners. Had more owners been black, it'd be primarily a classist term). I've heard many words used for black people that I would actually consider more offensive and taboo, and I've never once heard a black person use them affectionately towards one another - which means if you're following your comedians logic, he would agree.

 

 

Also, I have yet to actually hear the tape and his tone may give away more than the typed text, but from the comments I've seen in articles I'm not even certain that he's really admitting to racism so much as questioning if he is and admitting a bias versus certain groups within the African American community. For example, a very cleaned up version of his comment "I mean, I don’t have double standards. I mean, I am a racist, to a point, ****, But then when it comes to nice people whatever....I mean, I’d rather if she was going to fool around with a [black guy], I’d rather have her marry an 8-foot-tall [one] worth a hundred million dollars! Like a basketball player" To me it sounds like he is not applying the term to black people in general, but to a specific guy that he does not like or find suitable and his daughter. He'd prefer she ended up with someone that is nice, tall, accomplished, and rich - what father wouldn't? His comments imply that this guy is none of these things (I get the impression that hulk thinks he's basically a thug or something - now I don't know who the guy is that they are referring to, maybe there is some racism in Hogan's perception of him as this) and that is why the negative version of the word is used. This interpretation better fits with the comments by his peers as well since they did not claim to see any racism towards them. To close ask yourself this, if this had been Jay-Z talking to Beyonce about their daughter, is it still racist or is it ok because it's less taboo for African Americans to use the word? I think most would find it ok and the fact that assumed meaning and level of harm is assigned by race of the speaker is racist.

 

From my vantage point, our disagreement is due to my separation of denotation from connotation, intended meaning vs public perception/taboo, and looking at the comments in context to the conversation as a whole and to his life's body of work in the ring and outside of the ring, including with those whom he is supposedly racist against that have spoke to his defense. I don't want to keep fighting this since you are obviously coming from a different vantage point and we are not going to agree. If you want to discuss further PM me and if it you send something interesting I may respond, if it's more just a generic disagreement, then probably not.

 

 

Now for something we probably can agree on....Lets get this thread back on topic about wrestling itself.

[BHK1978]

One good thing could come out of this for Hulk. He could run for President as a member of the GOP and I bet he would now be their frontrunner...either that or he could just wait and be Trump's Vice Presidential nominee.

[K-Nection]

One good thing could come out of this for Hulk. He could run for President as a member of the GOP and I bet he would now be their frontrunner...either that or he could just wait and be Trump's Vice Presidential nominee.

 

I laughed way harder than I should have at this!

 

and to Liontamer... in the words of Ron Killings....DAMN!

 

That was good.

[Moe Hunter]

in the words of Ron Killings....DAMN!

Ron Simmons. Or do they all look the same to you

[K-Nection]

Ron Simmons. Or do they all look the same to you

 

No in my mind King Wusup stole it!....Nah I just royally flubbed that up!

[milamber]

Raw ws pretty good.

 

http://38.media.tumblr.com/ea684f02276ebfb8acae5e25e7ce29c5/tumblr_ns6eicQ8HC1rnjfjfo1_r1_400.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/8v8brP4.gif

[crownsy]

Raw ws pretty good.

 

http://38.media.tumblr.com/ea684f02276ebfb8acae5e25e7ce29c5/tumblr_ns6eicQ8HC1rnjfjfo1_r1_400.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/8v8brP4.gif

 

I need gif's of that Top rope Superplex roll through into the Driver and also the Owens "I'm rolling in to double team randy...is that ceasoro's music, never mind im out" Double roll. was so awesome.

[milamber]

Shame Charlotte gave Foxy a concussion in the divas tag match.

[Hive]

Wow. I haven't followed wrestling news for a while and suddenly I come back to Hogan being not only fired by completely vanquished from the WWE for... saying the N-word. Wow.

 

They have convicted rapists, wife-beaters, drug addicts and alleged murderers in the hall of fame... but a guy who drops the rather trivial N-word in a private conversation? CALL AN EXCORCIST, HE MUST BE POSSESED BY BEELZEBUB HIMSELF!!!

 

I don't condone racism, but people need to calm the f... down and take a chill pill. This is outright ridiculous.

[K-Nection]

Wow. I haven't followed wrestling news for a while and suddenly I come back to Hogan being not only fired by completely vanquished from the WWE for... saying the N-word. Wow.

 

They have convicted rapists, wife-beaters, drug addicts and alleged murderers in the hall of fame... but a guy who drops the rather trivial N-word in a private conversation? CALL AN EXCORCIST, HE MUST BE POSSESED BY BEELZEBUB HIMSELF!!!

 

I don't condone racism, but people need to calm the f... down and take a chill pill. This is outright ridiculous.

 

Don't get me started I just cooled down from my rants lol!

[crownsy]

Wow. I haven't followed wrestling news for a while and suddenly I come back to Hogan being not only fired by completely vanquished from the WWE for... saying the N-word. Wow.

 

They have convicted rapists, wife-beaters, drug addicts and alleged murderers in the hall of fame... but a guy who drops the rather trivial N-word in a private conversation? CALL AN EXCORCIST, HE MUST BE POSSESED BY BEELZEBUB HIMSELF!!!

 

I don't condone racism, but people need to calm the f... down and take a chill pill. This is outright ridiculous.

 

We don't need to get back into it, but given the fact that WWE is a publicly traded corporation, I don't fault them at all for getting out in front of this. We all know what the overwhelming public reaction is going to be (and has been) for the vile rants Hogan went on, private or not, are going to play in today's society.

 

WWE is selling a product, no hate for them for cutting ties from someone who sponsors and the general public would crucify them for supporting/ employing. Trust me if tomorrow Video of Cena slapping Nikki around surfaced, Cena would get the same treatment so fast it would make your head spin. No one is above the $$ machine.

[CQI13]

What has been the overwhelming reaction been? I must be traveling in different circles because all I see is articles about the story, no commentary on it.

 

And again, not to go back to the subject, but it seems as though people believe that because they are scrubbing someone from history, prejudice is no longer an issue.

 

Did they scrub DeMott from history too? Or was the firing sufficient?

[K-Nection]

We don't need to get back into it, but given the fact that WWE is a publicly traded corporation, I don't fault them at all for getting out in front of this. We all know what the overwhelming public reaction is going to be (and has been) for the vile rants Hogan went on, private or not, are going to play in today's society.

 

WWE is selling a product, no hate for them for cutting ties from someone who sponsors and the general public would crucify them for supporting/ employing. Trust me if tomorrow Video of Cena slapping Nikki around surfaced, Cena would get the same treatment so fast it would make your head spin. No one is above the $$ machine.

 

No I'm pretty sure WWE would go out of their way to throw money at the situation and keep it quiet. I mean look how much Steve Austin beating his wife hit the media....zilch. Cena is their cash cow and I'm pretty sure they would want to keep it that way.

[Granite Armadillo]

No I'm pretty sure WWE would go out of their way to throw money at the situation and keep it quiet. I mean look how much Steve Austin beating his wife hit the media....zilch. Cena is their cash cow and I'm pretty sure they would want to keep it that way.

 

If that came out, no amount of money would make that go away. It would be just like the NFL's situation with Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson: he would be vilified, and they would have to separate themselves. Cash cow or not, WWE would take a massive hit if they tried to stick up for Cena in that hypothetical.

[crownsy]

No I'm pretty sure WWE would go out of their way to throw money at the situation and keep it quiet. I mean look how much Steve Austin beating his wife hit the media....zilch. Cena is their cash cow and I'm pretty sure they would want to keep it that way.

 

Apples and Oranges. I'm sure if they had been presented a way to keep Hogan's stuff quite and bury it, they would have thrown money at that as well. You honestly think it's in WWE's best interests from a money standpoint to have this come out about Hogan and have to cut ties?

 

But the Gawker Lawsuit took that out of WWE's hands. It was already leaking, they had a choice to make, and they made the one in the best interests of the company and it's investors. It sucks, but that's how it goes.

[liontamer]

last time I mentioned seeing the reports he was leaving I was told Ziggler signed a new deal with WWE and saw the same in reports. Now I'm reading he's all but done and is in talks with TNA, Lucha underground and New Japan. I'm assuming the deal fell through or was a false report.

 

And Miz is a terrible judge if this week indicates anything.

[K-Nection]

If that came out, no amount of money would make that go away. It would be just like the NFL's situation with Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson: he would be vilified, and they would have to separate themselves. Cash cow or not, WWE would take a massive hit if they tried to stick up for Cena in that hypothetical.

 

Ummm....the Steve Austin wife beating went away...the only way you could find it back in the day if you looked at dirt sheets. Pretty sure the media was paid not plaster that one all over the news.

[Granite Armadillo]

Ummm....the Steve Austin wife beating went away...the only way you could find it back in the day if you looked at dirt sheets. Pretty sure the media was paid not plaster that one all over the news.

 

The problem with that argument, though, is the time frame that Austin's news went away. Sadly, America was much more tolerate of domestic abuse. In 2015, you wouldn't be able to get away with that.

[GhostDogg]

The problem with that argument, though, is the time frame that Austin's news went away. Sadly, America was much more tolerate of domestic abuse. In 2015, you wouldn't be able to get away with that.

 

Your absolutely right. I got 2 words for ya... .RAY RICE...

 

 

If that would have happen to a WWE Superstar or employee.. they would have not only gotten fired, but the "Men in Black" treatment, kinda like they are doing to Hogan right now. Its kinda funny that every sense WWE went PG-13, everytime someone makes a mistake and it makes news, no matter how major or minor... They are GONE. And not just them... but their ENTIRE LEGACY.

Only a minor few can get away with it...**coughORTONcough**

 

Hogan is just one of the many lists of casualites

[lazorbeak]

Ummm....the Steve Austin wife beating went away...the only way you could find it back in the day if you looked at dirt sheets. Pretty sure the media was paid not plaster that one all over the news.

 

Yep, that's how it works. Just make your check out to "the media."

[K-Nection]

Yep, that's how it works. Just make your check out to "the media."

 

I don't remember pulling your string but...for some reason I keep seeing you take shots at people...maybe you should change your name to lazortroll instead because you are obsessed with doing just that. Ok let me be more specific for the lazorbeaks of the world. They probably would cut checks to CNN...FOX NEWS...CNBC...and any other news outlet that would broadcast such a story. This would reduce this to only dirt sheets and we all know only trolls and smarks read those anyway.

 

 

Anyway just now starting to catch Raw and I'm surprised with how far Tyson O'neal's mic skills has come. He could probably be a decent colour guy someday.

[rd_dbacks01]

I don't remember pulling your string but...for some reason I keep seeing you take shots at people...maybe you should change your name to lazortroll instead because you are obsessed with doing just that. Ok let me be more specific for the lazorbeaks of the world. They probably would cut checks to CNN...FOX NEWS...CNBC...and any other news outlet that would broadcast such a story. This would reduce this to only dirt sheets and we all know only trolls and smarks read those anyway.

 

 

Anyway just now starting to catch Raw and I'm surprised with how far Tyson O'neal's mic skills has come. He could probably be a decent colour guy someday.

 

I think you took what Lazor wrote way too personal. It was a joking comment. I think the major news outlets not reporting on Austin's issues has more to do with wrestling fans not being the "target audience" for the likes of CNN, Fox News, and CNBC. If they thought it would bring in major ratings then they would've reported on it whether or not WWE paid them off.

[K-Nection]

I think you took what Lazor wrote way too personal. It was a joking comment. I think the major news outlets not reporting on Austin's issues has more to do with wrestling fans not being the "target audience" for the likes of CNN, Fox News, and CNBC. If they thought it would bring in major ratings then they would've reported on it whether or not WWE paid them off.

 

Hey look somebody else comes out of the dark to directly quote me but not take it personal. At least you have context behind what you are saying. But is it common for you to poke a bear when you see it's agitated?

 

 

Anyways...I was pretty impressed with the Main Event of RAW! John earned a little bit of respect from me going all out in the match with a broken nose... Every bit of what JBL was talking about was true. The second your nose is broke your vision is screwed. You know I can tell John is taking the extra effort to break out of the 5 moves of doom and I'm glad because I actually look forward to his matches now. His character needs to step out of the 5 promos of doom and I can be fully behind the guy.

[K-Nection]

Your absolutely right. I got 2 words for ya... .RAY RICE...

 

Who is Ray Rice?

 

 

Edit: Never mind I googled it and watched the knockout blow on the TMZ website. But honestly he doesn't have star power so of course he got thrown to the wolves. Millions of people know who John Cena is and WWE would be willing to protect their cash cow. Randy Orton is no where near as popular and his demons were protected.