The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[smurphy1014]

With the Royal Rumble being in Orlando how likely is it we get to see a handful of NXT wrestlers in the Rumble? Personally, I'd like to see Zayn, Joe, Balor and maybe Corbin make appearances.

[Greylocke]

OMG, I heard they actually did Wyatt Family vs Slater's new stable like I was hoping for! Pity it's not at the PPV, but I'd take what I can get. Can't wait to watch RAW this weekend.

[Jaysin]

Smackdown spoiler below in white...

 

Why on earth did they have Kalisto win the belt on Raw just to have him drop it one day later on Smackdown? He received so much support and attention after his shock title win and they're just hitting the reset button?

[Dawn]

Yeah, I don't get it. Hotshotting the belt that they spent months just rebuilding prestige for probably isn't a good idea itself either. Also, Ambrose vs. Owens in a Last Man Standing Match for the Intercontinental Championship has been announced for the Royal Rumble.

[K-Nection]

OMG, I heard they actually did Wyatt Family vs Slater's new stable like I was hoping for! Pity it's not at the PPV, but I'd take what I can get. Can't wait to watch RAW this weekend.

 

Slater's new stable is Job Squad 2016 (not that's a bad thing). I was a big job squad mark back in the day and I still think Al Snow with the momentum and talent he had should have been in the main event scene.

 

One thing that struck me on RAW was that Sheamus dawned a crimson mask on TV. That has not been done since PG started so it looks like there is a slight product change in the works.

[Blackman]

With the Royal Rumble being in Orlando how likely is it we get to see a handful of NXT wrestlers in the Rumble? Personally, I'd like to see Zayn, Joe, Balor and maybe Corbin make appearances.

 

I'm counting on it. Maybe even... Asuka? Nah, probably not.

 

Zayn however seems like a given. Joe also has a much better chance than Corbin. Why would they waste a coveted slot on him? No silly "number 30" antics this year? I remember during the Gamecube-game days I was fighting many battles to get that slot.

[Big Roguey]

I'm counting on it. Maybe even... Asuka? Nah, probably not.

 

Zayn however seems like a given. Joe also has a much better chance than Corbin. Why would they waste a coveted slot on him? No silly "number 30" antics this year? I remember during the Gamecube-game days I was fighting many battles to get that slot.

 

Corbin isn't actually a bad shout, he's been booked strongly on NXT so in the WWE canon they're writing, it's worth a shot.

 

Now if they threw in, say, Marcus Louis that'd be a waste of a slot. But putting Corbin, one of the top 5 healthy guys, in the Rumble? Not a waste at all.

[Greylocke]

Slater's new stable is Job Squad 2016 (not that's a bad thing). I was a big job squad mark back in the day and I still think Al Snow with the momentum and talent he had should have been in the main event scene.

 

There's always a place for entertaining jobber groups in wrestling. That's why I said previously that Slater should form random jobber stables every couple years or so. Slater is not someone I'd ever want to see hold the World Title, but he's excellent at what he's been given to do. 3MB was awesome and could get a reaction no matter how many times they were buried.

 

And 3MB calling out the Shield was way more memorable than any of the other random trios of super-faces going against the Shield.

[Jaysin]

One thing that struck me on RAW was that Sheamus dawned a crimson mask on TV. That has not been done since PG started so it looks like there is a slight product change in the works.

 

No. He was busted open the hard way when he hit the ring post. It has nothing to do with the product, it was an accident.

[Remianen]

I think we have different opinions of dominant. Anybody to be taken seriously should be squashing midcard talent. What Brock is currently doing when he's actually working is dominance. He kills multiple guys at a time damn near without breaking a sweat and then dominates main event talent from Reigns to Cena to Taker. That's true dominance and he's been doing it a couple years now. However, he's part time and those dominating instances are so few and far between, it's not complete and utter dominance per se.

 

You're the only person using 'dominant' as a definitive. The unstoppable force push is also often called the 'monster' push since back in the day, that's the primary way it was used. A worker does not have to work every house show and every TV show and PPV to have an unstoppable force push. Typically, a worker with this push as a heel relies on their menace (in TEW terms). As a face, it's incongruous but that doesn't stop it from being used.

 

Khali's primary unstoppable force push was when he was up against Taker (remember the Punjabi Prison match?). Prior to that, he was pushed as unstoppable because of his freakish size. Oh yes, that reminds me of another: Giant Gonzales. But maybe he doesn't count because he didn't do it for a decade straight?

 

Have you ever seen Big Show onscreen? He's ALWAYS been pushed as an unstoppable force except for those occasions when he's sent out to put somebody over. Remember when he was supposedly "broke" and the Authority bought his mortgage? When they turned him into another of Seth's lackeys and he had (really badly acted) crises of conscience (hesitating before knocking someone out, often needing to be yelled by at Triple H and/or Steph)? They didn't add him because he was good on the mic.

 

You're under the impression that in order to be an unstoppable force, a worker has to clear the ring of the entire roster every other show and do it for a long period of time. That's not the basis of the push, though that happens relatively frequently. It also doesn't matter when the push is ended (effectively or otherwise) because it was still used to get to that point. Ryback got a main event match based on beating local jobbers for several months. Heck, CHYNA was booked as an unstoppable force for a while so it's not just men who get this treatment. Go back further and you see names like Bull Nakano who got the same type of push....in WWF.

 

The push is not conjecture or opinion and it doesn't require some arbitrary length of time to qualify. A parody of the push can be seen performed by Duane Gill (as Gillberg) from way back when. You have a very old school view of things and that's okay. Everyone has their preferences. But just because it's not done now (with the far shorter attention spans of the audience) like it was done in 1984 doesn't mean it's not done. It's just done in the condensed format that the times require.

[Blackman]

Maybe he's just biased, given that the WWE announce team also used the word 'dominant' in the worst ways possible. A worker can string together five moves and he's branded as dominating the opponent. Etymologically, the relation implied is that of the master and the slave - or in modern terminology: the b*tch - with the master deciding everything that's happening and the slave undergoing the process.

 

Most Big Show matches involving multiple opponents (fi. his royal rumble entries) have the booking team clear the entire ring as people make place or run away from Show. That's being booked as an unstoppable force. Actually, quite literaly, they're just, well... never stopped in a conventional way. This doesn't imply they have to win in all.

[Crychon]

I disagree about Becky. She's getting over nicely as the one true babyface in the Divas division. She really didn't do much in NXT aside from the one feud with Sasha.

 

Sasha, on the other hand, is either injured or being saved for a future feud with either Charlotte or Becky. They should have Sasha feud with Natalya if she's fit just to keep her on TV. Brie and Foxy aren't credible enough opponents for her right now without Nikki.

 

My problem is the fact that NXT really seems to know how to book women. They give them interesting storylines, give them a chance to breathe with longer matches, and the coaches know how to give them meaningful matches that propel storylines and actually allow them to put their talents on display.

 

Wheras, this is what I basically think the main roster booking/writing staff is like:

[lr10540]

You're the only person using 'dominant' as a definitive. The unstoppable force push is also often called the 'monster' push since back in the day, that's the primary way it was used. A worker does not have to work every house show and every TV show and PPV to have an unstoppable force push. Typically, a worker with this push as a heel relies on their menace (in TEW terms). As a face, it's incongruous but that doesn't stop it from being used.

 

Khali's primary unstoppable force push was when he was up against Taker (remember the Punjabi Prison match?). Prior to that, he was pushed as unstoppable because of his freakish size. Oh yes, that reminds me of another: Giant Gonzales. But maybe he doesn't count because he didn't do it for a decade straight?

 

Have you ever seen Big Show onscreen? He's ALWAYS been pushed as an unstoppable force except for those occasions when he's sent out to put somebody over. Remember when he was supposedly "broke" and the Authority bought his mortgage? When they turned him into another of Seth's lackeys and he had (really badly acted) crises of conscience (hesitating before knocking someone out, often needing to be yelled by at Triple H and/or Steph)? They didn't add him because he was good on the mic.

 

You're under the impression that in order to be an unstoppable force, a worker has to clear the ring of the entire roster every other show and do it for a long period of time. That's not the basis of the push, though that happens relatively frequently. It also doesn't matter when the push is ended (effectively or otherwise) because it was still used to get to that point. Ryback got a main event match based on beating local jobbers for several months. Heck, CHYNA was booked as an unstoppable force for a while so it's not just men who get this treatment. Go back further and you see names like Bull Nakano who got the same type of push....in WWF.

 

The push is not conjecture or opinion and it doesn't require some arbitrary length of time to qualify. A parody of the push can be seen performed by Duane Gill (as Gillberg) from way back when. You have a very old school view of things and that's okay. Everyone has their preferences. But just because it's not done now (with the far shorter attention spans of the audience) like it was done in 1984 doesn't mean it's not done. It's just done in the condensed format that the times require.

 

I'll admit I have old school views on wrestling. I also look at things from what I feel is a realistic point of view. If a guy is just destroying low card talent, then he's crushing the "minor leagues" to put it in sports terms. Then when hese called up to the big leagues, or the main event scene in this case, and he's no longer displaying the same dominance, he can't hang. That makes me feel that he's not dominant.

 

To me, a monster push is pretty much what you've described. They look unstoppable for a (usually) short period of time. Once they step up in competition, they get handled and almost instantly lose all credibility. Dominance is something that's built up over time. Jose Aldo was dominant. Anderson Silva was dominant. Georges St. Pierre was dominant. A guy like BJ Penn, who was outstanding for a period of time and then got handled in seemingly no time, is not someone I consider dominant. In wrestling terms, BJ Penn was given a monster push and built to look strong in order to give someone the rub of defeating him.

 

I do, unfortunately remember the Punjabi Prison match. Horrible match. I feel about Khali how Warhawk feels about Reigns.

 

As far as Big Show, he doesn't win often. I disagree with Blackman (if I'm understanding him correctly) that you don't have to win to be dominant. If all you're doing is getting "victories" outside the ring, or outside of a match in general, you're not very strong. If all you can do is beat somebody up when the bell hasn't been rung, you're just a b*tch. Matches are contested to have a winner, definite or otherwise. If you can't beat somebody in a match, I say you suck. Show has looked strong in battle royals. But he never wins, and those "dominant" appearances have led to nothing.

[Blackman]

You do have a weird way of looking at pro wrestling. The fact that you conjure up MMA names might prove that point.

 

GSP wasn't always dominant, though. Here's a smart guy that finds a way to win, but was pretty far from dominant in some of his matches. Several people even think he lost his last match.

 

I pop for Kane destroying someone who happens to roll him up after five chair shots. They should beware booking these 'upsets' too much, though, as the worker will just be perceived as a 'sucka', but it supports the booking and protects him. I think it's a feature in TEW too.

 

Taking a cue from MMA, you're giving way too much legitimicy to what happens between the ropes. That's only half of what pro wrestling is.

 

Khali's cred, however, is destroyed as he had his comedy gimmick, and was just plain horrible in the ring. Good grief... there are no words to describe it, frankly.

[Dave_Scott]

AJ Lee oh how I miss you.

[lr10540]

You do have a weird way of looking at pro wrestling. The fact that you conjure up MMA names might prove that point.

 

GSP wasn't always dominant, though. Here's a smart guy that finds a way to win, but was pretty far from dominant in some of his matches. Several people even think he lost his last match.

 

I pop for Kane destroying someone who happens to roll him up after five chair shots. They should beware booking these 'upsets' too much, though, as the worker will just be perceived as a 'sucka', but it supports the booking and protects him. I think it's a feature in TEW too.

 

Taking a cue from MMA, you're giving way too much legitimicy to what happens between the ropes. That's only half of what pro wrestling is.

 

Khali's cred, however, is destroyed as he had his comedy gimmick, and was just plain horrible in the ring. Good grief... there are no words to describe it, frankly.

 

For me, between the ropes is where the money is. You use angles, whether it be brawls, attacks, promos or whatever to build the eventual match. Then the match is what draws. Very few people watch any sporting event for the "entertaining" points. You don't watch football for the half time show. You don't watch baseball for the 7th inning stretch. And very few people watch wrestling for a talking segment. Matches are super important for me. I know it's a work, but taking words from Steve Austin, I wanna believe. If a guy can't beat someone in the ring, why should he be taken seriously? That's how I look at it.

 

I didn't realize I was in the minority there

 

I like my in ring product to look as real as possible, and my angles to be serious. I hate comedy wrestling, and aside from Taker, I pretty much hate gimmicky characters. I guess that's why I compare it to mma!

[TakerNGN74]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Remianen" data-cite="Remianen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Khali's primary unstoppable force push was when he was up against Taker (remember the Punjabi Prison match?). Prior to that, he was pushed as unstoppable because of his freakish size.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You seem to be forgetting that Khali wasn't actually in a Punjabi prison match with the Undertaker due to not being cleared and being replaced by the Big Show in said match.</p>

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lr10540" data-cite="lr10540" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> I like my in ring product to look as real as possible, and my angles to be serious. I hate comedy wrestling, and aside from Taker, I pretty much hate gimmicky characters. I guess that's why I compare it to mma!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hey, don't get me wrong: I usually book PGHW and NOTBPW in TEW so I share your preference. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[crownsy]

<p>Fun NXT episode to start the year, Sami is just so over with full sail it's amazing.</p><p> </p><p>

Also enjoyed them being smart with hiding Eva Marie with the "oh she's under the ring but everyone's a moron and forgot" heel move (although it's quite sad they don't even trust she can hide her flaws in a battle royal, where you can literally just throw punches and kicks for 20 minutes).</p><p> </p><p>

Only to have Camillia do the same thing, and get a huge babyface pop for saving the match from eva. </p><p> </p><p>

Loved the "We see Eva" chants with 2 minutes to go, she must have accidentally come out from under the ring early ha.</p>

[Peppermint Rage]

I also loved that it was an actual over the top rope battle royal, as opposed to one of those "divas battle royals" where they only have to be pushed from the ring

[Mootinie]

<img alt="CYs_XxoWMAAjQRN.jpg" data-src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYs_XxoWMAAjQRN.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Blackman]

<p>I see Bailey going: "Well... that was a pointless match".</p><p> </p><p>

Well... it wasn't really. At least they figured how to capitalize on the EvaMarie hate. Pretty weird for Carmella to parade around after not having done anything of note, apart from ridding the fans of yet another EvaMarie-involved main event. At least we got to see all the women get some exposure (is Dana injured?). I didn't really like the show to be honest. I don't like Battle Royals, as it's a lot of random offense. Bringing back the Ascension probably does most good for the workers themelves. Lots of teams waiting in line to take that spot. It was good seeing Sammy again but I'd rather see him in the match in two weeks. And I know lone people shouting random crap is part of the charm of NXT, but it hurts the atmosphere. I'm not a fan of the Lone Wolf, but give the guy a break. Just "boo" him in a normal manner (though there was one funny man who got in a "ha!" during the segment: I admit I chuckled <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />). If you shout something and it's good, people will follow ("We see Eva" was hilarious). This was a D-show in TEW standards and everybody here knows it! <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Looking forward to the Royal Rumble though. It's funny how I used the apparently new concept in TEW all the time. Not that productive, but at least it keeps either the - mildly perceived - title match out of co-main position. They pushed the Rumble back a slot in the past (why, for god's sake?) and it didn't work. So I'll welcome this concept. In the end, people care more about the surprise entrants anyway. I'm aware of the contradiction in this post, but it's the Rumble, damnit. The best damn Battle Royal of the year. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[crownsy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I see Bailey going: "Well... that was a pointless match".<p> </p><p> Well... it wasn't really. At least they figured how to capitalize on the EvaMarie hate. Pretty weird for Carmella to parade around after not having done anything of note, apart from ridding the fans of yet another EvaMarie-involved main event. At least we got to see all the women get some exposure (is Dana injured?). I didn't really like the show to be honest. I don't like Battle Royals, as it's a lot of random offense. Bringing back the Ascension probably does most good for the workers themelves. Lots of teams waiting in line to take that spot. It was good seeing Sammy again but I'd rather see him in the match in two weeks. And I know lone people shouting random crap is part of the charm of NXT, but it hurts the atmosphere. I'm not a fan of the Lone Wolf, but give the guy a break. Just "boo" him in a normal manner (though there was one funny man who got in a "ha!" during the segment: I admit I chuckled <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />). If you shout something and it's good, people will follow ("We see Eva" was hilarious). This was a D-show in TEW standards and everybody here knows it! <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Looking forward to the Royal Rumble though. It's funny how I used the apparently new concept in TEW all the time. Not that productive, but at least it keeps either the - mildly perceived - title match out of co-main position. They pushed the Rumble back a slot in the past (why, for god's sake?) and it didn't work. So I'll welcome this concept. In the end, people care more about the surprise entrants anyway. I'm aware of the contradiction in this post, but it's the Rumble, damnit. The best damn Battle Royal of the year. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I disagree, not saying it was an A, but i would be in the high C range.</p><p> </p><p> On carmillea, I sort of wonder if Enzo and Cass are going up soon, and they want to start splitting her off.</p><p> </p><p> We'll see, but i could see Carmella over the next few weeks taking offense to the "awww have a huge! bye week for me!" attitude baylee showed her. I thought it was so over the top "good for you, look at cute little carmilla winning something!" that they had to be setting that up.</p><p> </p><p> on Dana, yea what was with that? is she hurt?</p>

[lr10540]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="crownsy" data-cite="crownsy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I disagree, not saying it was an A, but i would be in the high C range.<p> </p><p> On carmillea, I sort of wonder if Enzo and Cass are going up soon, and they want to start splitting her off.</p><p> </p><p> We'll see, but i could see Carmella over the next few weeks taking offense to the "awww have a huge! bye week for me!" attitude baylee showed her. I thought it was so over the top "good for you, look at cute little carmilla winning something!" that they had to be setting that up.</p><p> </p><p> on Dana, yea what was with that? is she hurt?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> She was dealing with a shoulder injury on breaking ground. Maybe she aggravated it?</p>

[milamber]

<p>The Battle Royale was sloppy but fun. It set up a lot of potential feuds. It was better booked than most of the male ones (bar the Royal Rumble and the one Cesaro won).</p><p> </p><p>

<span>http://i.imgur.com/DosZtgC.gif</span></p>