The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Slim Jim]

<p>During TakeOver, Graves posted a couple of harsh tweets directed at Mauro Ranallo, who then didn’t call Survivor Series and deleted his Twitter. With his mental health history, lots of people are calling Graves out for being a reprehensible jerk but he’s doubling down and being unpleasant to fans too. He even, without any irony, criticised Frank Shamrock for insulting him on Twitter instead of talking to him face to face ‘like a man’.</p><p> </p><p>

WWE’s reason for Mauro’s absence is that he blew his voice out at TakeOver.</p>

[Questlove]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This post goes against forum rules for insults/swearing but this is all I'm going to say about it for now. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> I also don't know why you're making it since I've not seen any news of Corey Graves or any posts discussion it. So please clairfy what you are talking about and why, because vague posting is just unnecessary and unhelpful. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> What Mammoth and Slim Jim said.</p><p> </p><p> Sorry for breaking the rules but he's such an insufferable, unprofessional douche.</p>

[Derek B]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Questlove" data-cite="Questlove" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What Mammoth and Slim Jim said.<p> </p><p> Sorry for breaking the rules but he's such an insufferable, unprofessional douche.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Just remember to tell us why next time. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> And yeah, Corey Graves has built up a reputation for being an asshat for a long time stretching to even before he was in NXT. Some people can be professional enough to mask that for a while, while others are not so good at it and it leaks out in stupid ways.</p><p> </p><p> ANOTHER announcer being a jerk to Mauro just makes me wonder how manhy people are worried about potentially getting replaced some day. I like Mauro as a commentator (even when he goes over the top at times) so it's a shame to see him feeling pushed towards deleting Twitter because of other people he's meant to be working in a professional manner with. <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[milamber]

<p>All I'll say is that is typical Graves. Making stupid jabs (sometimes at his own company while drunk) on Twitter like he's a wrestler trying to start a feud (probably wishes he still was a wrestler). Yet I saw worse elsewhere online from fans, including a few death threats (most likely in jest but completely distasteful). Graves should be more sensitive to his co-worker.</p><p> </p><p>

I love Mauro for his wrestling knowledge and energy and often defend him but he did have an off night. Most of his references didn't land, like a comedian delivering a flat set. Everyone in wrestling has off nights and don't deserve to be verbally bashed for it.</p>

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just remember to tell us why next time. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> And yeah, Corey Graves has built up a reputation for being an asshat for a long time stretching to even before he was in NXT. Some people can be professional enough to mask that for a while, while others are not so good at it and it leaks out in stupid ways.</p><p> </p><p> ANOTHER announcer being a jerk to Mauro just makes me wonder how manhy people are worried about potentially getting replaced some day. I like Mauro as a commentator (even when he goes over the top at times) so it's a shame to see him feeling pushed towards deleting Twitter because of other people he's meant to be working in a professional manner with. <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> As for as I remember the JBL bullying was debunked by Mauro himself. It was probably just an argument they had backstage that got leaked to the dirt sheets. Life on the road was more than than he could handle and that's why he left for a while and returned only to NXT.</p>

[milamber]

<p>1st hour felt like a fast-paced old school Raw with lots of short matches and more focus on the midcard. I thought the town hall would be awful but it was fun seeing the Raw version of Seth being a twat online... although Vikings Raiders and Ziggler/Roode won their SS pe-show matches so they should have kicked Seth's ass. At least Owens did. Unhinged Rusev was fun. Fatal 4 Way, Rey vs AJ and Rollins vs Owens were good. I want Mcintyre and Orton 1v1 stiffing the hell out of each other. Asuka vs Charlotte was my MOTN.</p><p> </p><p>

This sequence with McIntyre and Orton was awesome:</p><p> </p><p>

<a href="https://twitter.com/AjsOkay_2/status/1199156114195144711" rel="external nofollow">https://twitter.com/AjsOkay_2/status/1199156114195144711</a></p>

[milamber]

<p>- Fun intro. Undisputed Era the party poopers to make sure they didn't get the cheers they deserved. No rest for the workhorses.</p><p>

- Lee & Dijakovic vs Undisputed Era © was great after a slow start. They should have just started with Roddy if Fish's injury wasn't legit. Lee's pounce on Cole was incredible!</p><p>

- Thorne vs Mansoor was solid. Between this and the Crown Jewel footage, Mansoor looks impressive. Might be time to give him a bit of a push.</p><p>

- Candice vs Dakota was great. Dakota took a nasty looking bump on the apron. I miss her babyface theme <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Holding Tegan's knee brace like a trophy and using it to end the match was a nice touch.</p><p>

- Grimes is a strong promo.</p><p>

- Tozawa vs Rush © was great. Strange Tozawa got another title shot, even though it was Kalisto who got pinned at SS, but they have strong chemistry.</p><p>

- Rhea is so over! The hype's already building for her title match with Shayna.</p><p>

- Ciampa vs Balor was great. Rematch please. Balor is basically the Moxley of NXT. No aligment but himself.</p><p> </p><p>

Quality show. Hope the ratings hold up.</p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="91AgVP.gif" data-src="https://j.gifs.com/91AgVP.gif" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Jaysin]

Rhea has to beat Shayna...right?

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Rhea has to beat Shayna...right?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes and on TV because the next Takeover isn't until February and I expect Shayna to be on Raw after the Rumble. Wouldn't expect it at the first attempt, though. Dakota will probably interfere, costing Rhea the match, with Tegan coming out to kick that feud into high gear. If Rhea can't beat Shayna for the title they might as well vacate it.</p>

[Mootinie]

Who would have thought that Ripley would be challenging for the NXT Women's title whilst Toni Storm struggles to get back in the NXT UK Women's title picture? I must admit, the respective trajectories of their careers since their first match for the NXT UK Women's title has surprised me greatly.

[Derek B]

I hope Rhea Ripley beats Shayna. freeing up Shayna to face Becky Lynch at Wrestlemania. The pieces are in place and everything is going well for it, so let's hope WWE manages to capitalise on the momentum they've bulit for everyone so far.

 

As for the career paths of Storm and Ripley.... the moment Storm showed up on NXT UK they screwed her. Gone was the cool and cocky rock star charisma to be replaced with a vanilla damsel in distress. All the things that made her so much fun to watch in the Mae Young Classics were stripped back in favour of a super bland, boring persona that no one can be interested in, how are people meant to care about her now? Weirdly, in the first MYC Rhea looked like a cheap Toni Storm knock off but her character has evolved and developing into a believable bad ass who can go toe to toe with anyone thanks to her power, attitude and obvious athleticism. It's like they switched personas after the first MYC and as a result their career paths switched too.

 

I have no idea why WWE decided to ruin Toni Storm, there's just no logic to it at all.

[milamber]

I hope Rhea Ripley beats Shayna. freeing up Shayna to face Becky Lynch at Wrestlemania. The pieces are in place and everything is going well for it, so let's hope WWE manages to capitalise on the momentum they've bulit for everyone so far.

 

As for the career paths of Storm and Ripley.... the moment Storm showed up on NXT UK they screwed her. Gone was the cool and cocky rock star charisma to be replaced with a vanilla damsel in distress. All the things that made her so much fun to watch in the Mae Young Classics were stripped back in favour of a super bland, boring persona that no one can be interested in, how are people meant to care about her now? Weirdly, in the first MYC Rhea looked like a cheap Toni Storm knock off but her character has evolved and developing into a believable bad ass who can go toe to toe with anyone thanks to her power, attitude and obvious athleticism. It's like they switched personas after the first MYC and as a result their career paths switched too.

 

I have no idea why WWE decided to ruin Toni Storm, there's just no logic to it at all.

 

I think due to injury and and increased restrictions on NXT UK appearances in other promotions Toni has slowed down a lot. At only 24 she has a lot of mileage on her body. Since losing the NXT UK title (while injured) she hasn't been presented as anything special but still gets a decent pop. I would expect her to be a more important part of the NXT brands again next year.

 

According to Cagematch:

 

2017 - 84 matches

2018 - 82 matches

2019 - 38 matches

[Derek B]

I think due to injury and and increased restrictions on NXT UK appearances in other promotions Toni has slowed down a lot. At only 24 she has a lot of mileage on her body. Since losing the NXT UK title (while injured) she hasn't been presented as anything special but still gets a decent pop. I would expect her to be a more important part of the NXT brands again next year.

 

According to Cagematch:

 

2017 - 84 matches

2018 - 82 matches

2019 - 38 matches

 

Injuries suck for sure and I don't want to see anyone with those... but putting those aside, her character presentation changed and that has completely killed her momentum more than any injury, at least in my opinion.

 

As I was saying before... in the first Mae Young Classic she was a cocky/cool rockstar persona who had loud music, headbanged and had a lot of fun in the ring while she also did actual wrestling moves. The character connected well with people and it was a launchpad for her.

 

Compare that to her NXT UK presentation. The music is more toned down. She doesn't do the same character work and the crowd response, while still there, has no momentum behind it. The response feels closer to "here is someone we know is good" instead of " here is someone I want to see". By time she lost to Kay Lee Ray she was just a vanilla, wholesome damsel in distress who was one hug and one additional colour away from being main roster Bayley.

 

Her personality is gone. She could be doing the same moves with perfect health on her side, but the things that connected her to people are gone. And that's on WWE.... they don't know how to make babyfaces that people care about any more, so they churn out cookie cutter, repetitive, wholesome tropes that kids can like and wonder why an audience like NXT UK's (which is mostly skewed to an older demographic) connect with the metal, bad ass liek Rhea Ripley OR original flavour Toni Storm over the kind of thing that has barely worked since the 80s. It's because they're using the wrong kind of gimmick for their fan base.

 

It's the same thing that happens in NXT (even with a more forgiving crowd) too, because the people watching that skew towards an older demographic who watched during the Attitude Era. It's similar on the main roster, where they WANT to appeal to everyone but most characters kinda fall flat because they end up appealing to a minority of people.

 

I'm not sure if I'm explaining my own thoughts (which these mostly are) very well but I hope you get what I mean. WWE just doesn't seem to know how to build a babyface any more, which is why heels are often more popular. The Fiend is their top merch seller just now and he's.... tough to quantify but is definitely no babyface. Becky Lynch became the man through a botched heel turn and a botched punch with almost zero input from WWE. They just had to turn Seth Rollins heel because that failed big time. They botched Daniel Bryan's return so badly they had to repackage him with a character Daniel came up with himself. Roman Reigns, despite all his talent and likeable natural personality, was booked so badly he got booed. It's mind blowing....

 

As far as I can see, which admittedly is a limited point of view, the only reason they even make money is simply because they can get more deals abroad now than they could in the 90s. If WWE had the same scope then as they do now, no one would invest in them because the downturn in fortunes would be disasterous. Their American TV ratings have been below network expectations every week except their debut too.... which is bad no matter how many excuses you look for.

 

I love the company for all the memories they've given me and the fun I've had with them since I was young. And I may have simply outgrown the majority of their product while wishing I could see the best performers do well... but I should probably stop watching anything except NXT, because at least that brand is growing and doing that on the back of a product that usually handles their TV well. Usually. Just now in the case of Toni Storm.

[milamber]

- Dain vs Dunne was great. Biggest win of Dain's career.

- Lee is red hot. I hope he wins a title next year, probably the North American belt.

- Good promos for Xia Lia and KUSHIDA. Xia vs Shayna was solid.

- Alanis & Ruff vs Forgotten Sons was OK. Ruff died at least twice.

- Nice titanron for Darkota. Dakota brawling with Mia instead was a logical twist I didn't predict. Didn't mind Shayna choking out Rhea because Rhea's been too OP lately.

- Ohno vs Riddle was great. Wrestling genius, bro.

- KUSHIDA vs Grimes was solid. Nice ambush from Grimes on Mendoza.

- Undisputed Era vs Lee, Dijakovic & Ciampa was great as expected. That shot of Lee rising up behind Balor on the apron was sick. Balor did a lot of damage with a single dropkick.

[Jaysin]

Kyle O’Reilly has the world’s most punchable face.

[Jaysin]

Batista and the nwo(Hogan, Nash, Hall, and Sean Waltman) were announced as the first hall of famers for 2020

[Greylocke]

After an average episode, last week's NXT UK gave me a pleasant surprise. Wasn't expecting much out of it, since none of my favourites were in action, but that Ligero/Banks/Conners 3-way really killed it. The tag match was another sleeper I wasn't expecting. I haven't seen enough of the Outliers to decide if I will be a fan, but the booking of the match of great, Hitchman came out looking like a million bucks despite his loss. The Hunt is usually hit-or-miss for me, but last week they delivered.

[milamber]

<p>- Garza vs Rush © was a Takeover quality match and even better than their last one. Didn't expect Garza to win the Cruiserweight Title so that was cool, as was the proposal to his girlfriend.</p><p>

- Good Shayna and Ripley promos. This is perfectly setup for Ripley to beat her, though I'm not sure if it will happen next week. Either way, they can get some mileage out of an extended feud.</p><p>

- Mendoza vs Grimes was OK for what it was. The hat suits KUSHIDA.</p><p>

- Ryker vs Banks was solid. I'm surprised Banks won but it was the right choice.</p><p>

- Mia vs Dakota was great.</p><p>

- Breezango vs Singh Brothers was solid.</p><p>

- Kayden vs Bianca was good.</p><p>

- Ciampa vs Lee vs Balor was great. I expected Lee to win but maybe they are saving Lee vs Cole for next year.</p>

[milamber]

Andrade vs Carillo - Good match

Revival vs New Day © - Great match with plenty of creative and painful looking spots. New Day didn't need to win. Should have given Revival the rub.

Murphy vs Black - MOTN. These guys went hard like it was an NXT Takeover. Black's new ring gear was a bad idea.

Vikings Raiders © vs OC - OK match. KFC FTW!

Corbin vs Reigns - Good match. Even better because Roman couldn't overcome the odds but still looked strong.

Miz vs Bray - Entrance and story were good. The match itself was just OK. Bryan Danielson looks 10 years younger.

Lashley vs Rusev - OK but I've never really liked tables matches. They should change the rule to only tables in the ring count for the finish so we get more table carnage.

Becky & Charlotte vs Kabuki Warriors © - Good match even it was sloppy. These women destroyed each other. I'm surprised Kabuki Warriors retained. After Royal Rumble they need some fresh opponents. Shayna and Ronda would be cool. Looks like Kairi might have been concussed. If you pay attention you can see how great a job Becky did of protecting her towards the end of the match.

[Questlove]

Why did Miz do his stupid gimmick entrance and just stand there doing nothing when Bray was facing away from him on the announce table when it's supposed to be the most personal fight of his life?

[Blackman]

Batista and the nwo(Hogan, Nash, Hall, and Sean Waltman) were announced as the first hall of famers for 2020

 

They should invite all nWo members on the stage and call it a day. Not sure it's big enough a stage to host them all.

 

As for Toni Storm: haven't seen any matches outside of the 2 tourneys, but if young talent are overactive, . I don't know if Paige is a good example as that might be a freak accident instead of attrition, but she retired very young afaik.

 

You see that for PGHW guys in my games too : it's not unusual they retire very young because of this.

[Greylocke]

Ridge Holland is a star. Give him the Goldberg push!

[milamber]

- Balor v Cole © was great. Gargano back with a vengeance.

- Priest vs Dain was good.

- Grimes vs KUSHIDA was good. Big win for Grimes. I'd love see KUSHIDA feud with Garza.

- Io vs Santana was solid.

- Dunne vs Banks was good.

- Ripley vs Shayna © was great. Newwwwwww NXT Women's Champion at last! What a celebration.

[Jaysin]

Playing catch up on NXT. Dakota Kai is much more believable in her new heel role. She came across as super phony as a face.

[milamber]

Playing catch up on NXT. Dakota Kai is much more believable in her new heel role. She came across as super phony as a face.

 

I thought she was a good underdog face but her promo work was subpar. Now her mic work is better and she's working more agressive in the ring so the heel turn has benefited her.