The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[PeterHilton]

well Batista has a track of diva "run-ins" and well Shelly was released because of him

 

And I'm sure months of piss poor work, waning fan interest, and a desire to push her music career had nothing to do with it?

 

Somewhat related to the top phrase, is that why they say "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have."?

 

 

Great rule to follow.

[TracyBrooksFan]

And I'm sure months of piss poor work, waning fan interest, and a desire to push her music career had nothing to do with it?

 

 

 

Great rule to follow.

 

well let see she stated that her music was a side project and actually WWE was helping push her music.,

 

Fan interest warning? considering she was the MOST popular/OVER diva she had the fan interest.

 

Piss poor work well that questionable she was not the same she use to be in the ring but she was still ne of if not the most skilled and best female talent they had.

[PeterHilton]

well let see she stated that her music was a side project and actually WWE was helping push her music.,

 

Fan interest warning? considering she was the MOST popular/OVER diva she had the fan interest.

 

Piss poor work well that questionable she was not the same she use to be in the ring but she was still ne of if not the most skilled and best female talent they had.

 

 

Mickie James is no big deal.

 

She's no more popular then Kelly Kelly. She was barely better in the ring than Eve or the Bella twins (I mean..she was good at one point but holy **** she was terrible towards the end). And there were just as many 'stories' about her bitchy or unprofessional backstage as there are of Batista run-ins.

 

She's gone. In two months only the nutter Mickie James fans who still think she's the second coming of Trish Stratus will care.

[TracyBrooksFan]

 

Mickie James is no big deal.

 

She's no more popular then Kelly Kelly. She was barely better in the ring than Eve or the Bella twins (I mean..she was good at one point but holy **** she was terrible towards the end). And there were just as many 'stories' about her bitchy or unprofessional backstage as there are of Batista run-ins.

 

She's gone. In two months only the nutter Mickie James fans who still think she's the second coming of Trish Stratus will care.

 

well that not how I and many others see it and she was way more popular then Kelly Kelly. Mickie was the most over female they had since Trish left.

[The Shape]

well that not how I and many others see it and she was way more popular then Kelly Kelly. Mickie was the most over female they had since Trish left.

 

Wait.....her popularity isn't down to "how you and a few others see it."

 

Maria was the most over diva, I'd say. Once she was gone, I'd say Melina and beth definitely, maybe Kelly...Natalya can easily get there, then you've got McCool heat-wise...

[PeterHilton]

well that not how I and many others see it and she was way more popular then Kelly Kelly. Mickie was the most over female they had since Trish left.

 

That's the same response you gave me when I said "no one cares about women's wrestling"

 

You and a bunch of net fans don't make a difference. The MAJORITY of fans won't be bothered. And that's who the WWE is selling their product to.

 

The Majority

[ampulator]

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

 

- The feeling is that the WWE releases came because several stars from NXT and WWE developmental are scheduled to be brought to the main roster soon. The recent releases aren't a budget-cutting move as much as just WWE making way for new members on the roster.

 

Shelton Benjamin's contract was releasing soon and there was always frustration internally with him. Shelton had the reputation of being one who coasted through the job and that his promos were never as good as his in-ring work.

 

I have a problem with some of that. For one thing, has Shelton Benjamin EVER coasted in terms of a match? I never seen him do that. He might not gotten better on the mic, I agree, but that's hardly coasting.

 

If they had said, he never got better on the mic, and they released him, fine. I can understand that. But have you ever seen that guy wrestle? He puts his heart into it. Is that coasting?

 

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Mickie James' release from WWE didn't surprise many within the company. Apparently there was talk of cutting her before WrestleMania. Word is that while on the SmackDown brand, Mickie had a few run-ins with Batista and when things became heated, he threatened to quit if she wasn't fired and Undertaker had to step in and calm things down. It's said that Mickie's recent behavior on the European tour was the deciding factor in letting her go.

 

What's up with Batista? Seriously, how could a woman like Mickie James can push Batista around?

 

It's said that Mike Knox didn't carry himself like a main eventer backstage but he still had his share of supporters within WWE. At one point, Shawn Michaels and Triple H were among those in favor of pushing Knox.

 

What does "carry himself" like a Main Evener mean? Remianen gave one definition, but is that the case? I'm not a fan of Knox, but what did they want out of him?

 

There was speculation online that Jimmy Wang Yang's release came after a Wellness violation because he Tweeted "three strikes and your out" after being released. Yang was referring to his third time being fired from the company.

 

Well, yeah. Going to Florida is what Jimmy Wang Yang said. Does he mean FCW or TNA?

 

Katie Lea's release was not something planned in advance because the WWE creative team had her booked to move to SmackDown in the Draft.

 

Really? REALLY?

 

It's said that Slam Master J, son of the late Terry Gordy, mainly had a job because SmackDown head writer Michael Hayes considered him almost like a son. His release came as a bit of a surprise to some because Hayes had always protected him.

 

Well... I'm not really surprised.

[CQI13]

I'm reading coasting in this case to mean that he was getting by on his in-ring talent rather than improving his mic skills as well. That's the only thing I could think of. He was super hot in the time with Angle and Haas (ages ago), and when he moved to RAW and had those matches with Michaels and Triple H. Aside from that, I think everyone agreed he was talented, but not main event talented (as all around).

[The Final Countdown]

Wait.....her popularity isn't down to "how you and a few others see it."

 

Maria was the most over diva, I'd say. Once she was gone, I'd say Melina and beth definitely, maybe Kelly...Natalya can easily get there, then you've got McCool heat-wise...

I completely disagree with that. Say what you like about her in-ring performance, but it always seemed to me that Mickie got the strongest crowd response of any of the women post-Trish.

[Self]

I completely disagree with that. Say what you like about her in-ring performance, but it always seemed to me that Mickie got the strongest crowd response of any of the women post-Trish.

 

I'd agree with that. Granted, I barely watch RAW so I can't judge how popular Kelly Kelly is (or pick her out of a line-up to be honest) but Mickie always seemed to get a strong pop from where I was sitting. Not a great worker, with 3 awful, awful moves at her disposal (wacky oopsie-daisy kick, clunkly thesz press, god-awfully fake DDT) but I dug her to an extent. Her body type, oft mocked by WWE, make her different... almost 'attainable'... and she was involved in a lot of storylines over the years. Got more character development than most. If WWE had their message straight on the piggy-james stuff, it could have been good.

[CQI13]

Isn't this how the whole thing with Molly turned out too though, all those years ago?

[TracyBrooksFan]

Wait.....her popularity isn't down to "how you and a few others see it."

 

Maria was the most over diva, I'd say. Once she was gone, I'd say Melina and beth definitely, maybe Kelly...Natalya can easily get there, then you've got McCool heat-wise...

 

Mickie was the most over diva even more so then Maria (who would be second)

[TracyBrooksFan]

That's the same response you gave me when I said "no one cares about women's wrestling"

 

You and a bunch of net fans don't make a difference. The MAJORITY of fans won't be bothered. And that's who the WWE is selling their product to.

 

The Majority

 

i dont mean internet fans i mean people who is in the business and runs sites like wrestling observer and others also wasnt mickie getting cheered even as a heel against Trish of all people.

 

they seemed bothered at the PPV and RAW taking mickie signs away and trying to mute the we want mickie chant

[TracyBrooksFan]

I'd agree with that. Granted, I barely watch RAW so I can't judge how popular Kelly Kelly is (or pick her out of a line-up to be honest) but Mickie always seemed to get a strong pop from where I was sitting. Not a great worker, with 3 awful, awful moves at her disposal (wacky oopsie-daisy kick, clunkly thesz press, god-awfully fake DDT) but I dug her to an extent. Her body type, oft mocked by WWE, make her different... almost 'attainable'... and she was involved in a lot of storylines over the years. Got more character development than most. If WWE had their message straight on the piggy-james stuff, it could have been good.

 

not great worker? she one of the best female talents but then again what do i know

[The Final Countdown]

not great worker? she one of the best female talents but then again what do i know

I thought she did better work on the indies than she did in WWE, to be honest. She seemed a lot more prone to screwing stuff up in WWE. The same seems to be true of Gail Kim, though. Maybe they put something in the water.

[TracyBrooksFan]

I thought she did better work on the indies than she did in WWE, to be honest. She seemed a lot more prone to screwing stuff up in WWE.

 

while that can be true she was still one of the best workers to me anyway but like i said what do i know

[Remianen]

Piss poor work well that questionable she was not the same she use to be in the ring but she was still ne of if not the most skilled and best female talent they had.

 

Bzzt! Wrong! I think you need to take off your nostalgia glasses and actually look at the quality of the matches themselves. She was not performing at anywhere near the level you seem to think she was (again, nostalgia).

 

I like Mickie (granted, I liked her more when she was Alexis Laree and had a full moveset...) but I'm a realist. The tape don't lie. She was great when she was working with top tier workers (Trish, Victoria) but declined sharply to the point where she couldn't even be depended upon to pull watchable matches from the 'diva' types (and she could in years past).

 

well that not how I and many others see it and she was way more popular then Kelly Kelly. Mickie was the most over female they had since Trish left.

 

Ah, that's really not saying much.

 

I have a problem with some of that. For one thing, has Shelton Benjamin EVER coasted in terms of a match? I never seen him do that. He might not gotten better on the mic, I agree, but that's hardly coasting.

 

If they had said, he never got better on the mic, and they released him, fine. I can understand that. But have you ever seen that guy wrestle? He puts his heart into it. Is that coasting?

 

Yes, because WWE is the standard bearer for workrate.

 

ampulator, have you not gotten the fact that in-ring skill is simply not enough to succeed in WWE? If he wasn't in the studio constantly trying to improve his mic work, he was coasting. I don't care if he was freakin' Antonio Inoki reborn. In WWE, you must be entertaining in front of a camera or you're not going to get very far. Shelton doesn't have 'the look' that would get him over (Shad does, as does Ezekiel Jackson) so he's got to find other ways OUTSIDE THE RING to stand out. He didn't. So now, he's gone.

 

What's up with Batista? Seriously, how could a woman like Mickie James can push Batista around?

 

She could kick him in the groin and he could do nothing about it. She can yell and scream at him and punch him in the throat and if he so much as raises his voice, HE'S wrong. Seriously, who doesn't know this? It doesn't take much to "push someone around" if they can't fire back. So, if true, he used the only method available to him. I can't blame him for that. What's he supposed to do? Invite her to take it outside?

[TracyBrooksFan]

Bzzt! Wrong! I think you need to take off your nostalgia glasses and actually look at the quality of the matches themselves. She was not performing at anywhere near the level you seem to think she was (again, nostalgia).

 

I like Mickie (granted, I liked her more when she was Alexis Laree and had a full moveset...) but I'm a realist. The tape don't lie. She was great when she was working with top tier workers (Trish, Victoria) but declined sharply to the point where she couldn't even be depended upon to pull watchable matches from the 'diva' types (and she could in years past).

 

 

well she may not be like she use to be but that dont mean she not talented or a good worker. She not the only one who not doing like they would else where.

[lazorbeak]

not great worker? she one of the best female talents but then again what do i know

 

Yeah, Mickie is NOT a great worker. Like Remi, I'm a fan of women's wrestling, and she's just not all that great. Smarks loved her because she had indy cred, but when she came in and was working with top talent, she was a walking botch-fest. Not that it mattered because WWE were committed to pushing her and to her credit, she did get over, but the biggest match of her career, beating Trish at Wrestlemania, involved a pretty major botch on the finish (although it's edited on the dvd).

 

She did fine when paired up with people more talented than her: Melina and Beth Phoenix especially prolonged her run by being great foils for her, but you can't put her in the ring with the greener divas and get anything other than a train wreck. Remember her performance with Maryse at last year's Night of Champions? It was abysmal, especially since Melina and Michelle McCool of all people had a solid match earlier in the show.

 

That's not to say I hate Mickie James or have any problem with her: I liked her original heel character and she did get over. She's talented, she's got that "girl next door" quality, good for her. But no, she wasn't a great worker.

[ampulator]

Yes, because WWE is the standard bearer for workrate.

 

ampulator, have you not gotten the fact that in-ring skill is simply not enough to succeed in WWE? If he wasn't in the studio constantly trying to improve his mic work, he was coasting. I don't care if he was freakin' Antonio Inoki reborn. In WWE, you must be entertaining in front of a camera or you're not going to get very far. Shelton doesn't have 'the look' that would get him over (Shad does, as does Ezekiel Jackson) so he's got to find other ways OUTSIDE THE RING to stand out. He didn't. So now, he's gone.

 

First of all, don't assume I don't know that. EVERYONE KNOWS IT. And I really disagree with you he was coasting. If he kept up his ringwork, then he wasn't my coasting.

 

My point wasn't that ALL HE NEEDED TO DO WAS HAVE GOOD RING WORK. MY POINT WAS THAT HE WASN'T COASTING BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING SO DAMN HARD IN HIS MATCHES. As for his mic work. it sucks. Not everyone can god damn be the Rock or even just the Miz. Hell, how many people in the E are THAT DAMN GOOD ON THE MIC? And that's assuming if he improved on the mic that they would have pushed him. I sure don't believe that. Hell, Lesnar wasn't exactly gold on the mic, neither is Big Show, but they were serviceable. Benjamin is a tad worse, but not so much he was "COASTING".

 

Hell, if Shelton Benjamin is coasting, then just about everyone in WWE is coasting, dagnabbit. They should fire most of them for doing even less than Shelton Benjamin.

 

She could kick him in the groin and he could do nothing about it. She can yell and scream at him and punch him in the throat and if he so much as raises his voice, HE'S wrong. Seriously, who doesn't know this? It doesn't take much to "push someone around" if they can't fire back. So, if true, he used the only method available to him. I can't blame him for that. What's he supposed to do? Invite her to take it outside?

 

Uh-huh. Yeah. Right. If she did that, she would have been fired. Immediately. Batista is what now to the WWE? And what was her? Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Linsolv]

Dude, calm down.

 

I understand that you think if someone's working hard at what you (rightly, IMO) think is the important part, then he's not coasting. But the E doesn't think that's the important part.

 

While Cena's pretty decent on the mic (sometimes), Orton seems to be considered a laughingstock by the smarks around here, especially for his mic work. Yet, both are super over, and Benjamin wasn't.

 

If Vince could have his way, I'm pretty sure that he'd have matches at PPV and that's it; Benjamin couldn't carry a feud without matches. Hell, I'm not even sure he carried feuds WITH matches. He just put on good matches, which isn't enough in a sports entertainment fed. You have to tell a story, and he didn't.

 

[Edited because for some reason it only put up half my post]

[The Shape]

Hell, how many people in the E are THAT DAMN GOOD ON THE MIC? And that's assuming if he improved on the mic that they would have pushed him. I sure don't believe that. Hell, Lesnar wasn't exactly gold on the mic, neither is Big Show, but they were serviceable. Benjamin is a tad worse, but not so much he was "COASTING".

 

Big Show is a giant. Lesnar was a freakish athletic specimen.

 

Shelton has nothing like that to get him ahead. So he had to make himself stand out. He had eight years with some promise, it's not like his ring work was ignored, they put over his athleticism, but that wasn't enough to step up. And eventually they just ran out of ideas for him. There's really nothing they can do with him that they can't do with other guys.

 

I've read I think here that he "didn't want" to be a main eventer, not sure about where that came from but the sentiment makes sense; he was "coasting" in that he was happy enough where he was on the talent he had not to add anything else to his arsenal to really put him ahead of the game. They gave him all sorts of angles; the momma stuff, a brief racism thing with Coach, feud with evolution, Gold Standard promo time...but it never clicked.

[The Final Countdown]

She did fine when paired up with people more talented than her: Melina and Beth Phoenix especially prolonged her run by being great foils for her

I'm with you on Beth, but Melina? No way is Melina any better than Mickie, IMO.

[ampulator]

Big Show is a giant. Lesnar was a freakish athletic specimen.

 

Shelton has nothing like that to get him ahead. So he had to make himself stand out. He had eight years with some promise, it's not like his ring work was ignored, they put over his athleticism, but that wasn't enough to step up. And eventually they just ran out of ideas for him. There's really nothing they can do with him that they can't do with other guys.

 

I've read I think here that he "didn't want" to be a main eventer, not sure about where that came from but the sentiment makes sense; he was "coasting" in that he was happy enough where he was on the talent he had not to add anything else to his arsenal to really put him ahead of the game. They gave him all sorts of angles; the momma stuff, a brief racism thing with Coach, feud with evolution, Gold Standard promo time...but it never clicked.

YOU make a fair point. But being happy where you were? Hell, they might as well fire Matt Hardy too then. Kane maybe. Besides what the hell they can expect, being on the road five days a week? What do they want? They have to hold back sometimes. Not go full out. What did they want Benjamin to do, be Kurt Angle and literally burn himself out pulling 5 star matches out of neck and body?

 

And I'm not so angry that WWE released them either. If they released him because they felt he didn't fit, fine. If he broke a rule, fine. If he was actually lazy or a jerk, fine. But him coasting? That's total bull****.

 

I've seen wrestlers coast before. D'Lo Brown coasted around after the Droz incident. X-Pac coasted around and never changed his character. And I like Brown and I used to like X-Pac. But Shelton Benjamin doing the same thing? Bull****.

 

Dude, calm down.

 

I understand that you think if someone's working hard at what you (rightly, IMO) think is the important part, then he's not coasting. But the E doesn't think that's the important part.

 

While Cena's pretty decent on the mic (sometimes), Orton seems to be considered a laughingstock by the smarks around here, especially for his mic work. Yet, both are super over, and Benjamin wasn't.

 

If Vince could have his way, I'm pretty sure that he'd have matches at PPV and that's it; Benjamin couldn't carry a feud without matches. Hell, I'm not even sure he carried feuds WITH matches. He just put on good matches, which isn't enough in a sports entertainment fed. You have to tell a story, and he didn't.

 

[Edited because for some reason it only put up half my post]

 

It's not so much that I'm angry that the WWE's thinking he's coasting, as much as other people think they are right to think he is. From their limited perspective, they probably saw it as that, but I didn't think anyone else's perspective could be as narrow as their's That's what ticks me off. I can see why WWE feels that way. I can't understand why anyone else can agree with them. WWE is still wrong. But they can't see much more than want or even can see. Besides, if he was coasting, then there are worse offenders than he, and offenders that WWE even needs or want less than him.

 

I'm with you on Beth, but Melina? No way is Melina any better than Mickie, IMO.

 

I'm no Mickie fan... but I have reluctantly say you are right. Melina isn't that much better.

[Linsolv]

Hell, they might as well fire Matt Hardy too then. Kane maybe.

 

Yeah, I agree about Hardy. It's my understanding that they are keeping him around to not give him to TNA.

 

As for Kane, I thought he was still getting a huge pop...