The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[BurningHamster]

<p>Is awesome a new word for slightly above average but still pretty bland? <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

As much as The Miz has improved, he's still about #1072 on my list of favourite wrestlers. Right below Reno.</p>

[juggaloninjalee]

I really like the Miz. I think he has a lot of potential in this business. Could be a future great! The catchphrase he is using is stale but him doing it actually works.

[Eisen-verse]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="juggaloninjalee" data-cite="juggaloninjalee" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I really like the Miz. I think he has a lot of potential in this business. Could be a future great! The catchphrase he is using is stale but him doing it actually works.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <span style="font-family:Tahoma;">I agree. I disliked him greatly when he first came to the WWE but, by now, he's proven to be someone who's willing to put in a lot of work in which to get better. His Mic skills are pretty solid, he competes well within the ring ropes, and his persona seems unique to him. Good stuff.</span></p>

[Swagger]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Eisen-verse" data-cite="Eisen-verse" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><span style="font-family:Tahoma;">I agree. I disliked him greatly when he first came to the WWE but, by now, he's proven to be someone who's willing to put in a lot of work in which to get better. His Mic skills are pretty solid, he competes well within the ring ropes, and his persona seems unique to him. Good stuff.</span></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree. The Miz has done nothing but improve.</p>

[Dragonmack]

<p>I seriously doubt that the GM is Stone Cold Steve Austin. Mainly because the hints were too obvious, and that usually means some kind of swerve, and also because his decrees don't fit the persona of Austin. He would be more likely to be screwing over Nexus, and he wouldn't even bother with the 'fake' peace conference. </p><p> </p><p>

Of the people that it could be, my money right now would be on Triple H, Shawn Michaels, or one of the McMahons.</p>

[LoganRodzen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Shape" data-cite="The Shape" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Enjoyed Cena more than I have in a while.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Same here. Him picking up the steel steps and throwing them into Young's face. Pretty much beating his ass around all of ringside was something I hadn't seen from Cena in a long time. Instead of him trying to set a good example for the kiddies he was flat-out brawling. Which is exactly what his rapper gimmick was all about - brawling. I'm not saying he's going to be changing up his gimmick anytime soon, but it showed me that I could like Cena again. Even if it was for just a few minutes.</p>

[Dragonmack]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoganRodzen" data-cite="LoganRodzen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Same here. Him picking up the steel steps and throwing them into Young's face. Pretty much beating his ass around all of ringside was something I hadn't seen from Cena in a long time. Instead of him trying to set a good example for the kiddies he was flat-out brawling. Which is exactly what his rapper gimmick was all about - brawling. I'm not saying he's going to be changing up his gimmick anytime soon, but it showed me that I could like Cena again. Even if it was for just a few minutes.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> While the beatdown was unnecessarily drawn out, it was nice to see them having Cena do something that actually makes sense. 7 on 1 handicap match? Lets lesson those odds by taking out one of the Nexus guys. Amazing how fast the area cleared both of the other six Nexus and the rest of the locker room that had emptied out to the ring.</p><p> </p><p> Reminds me of the time that Austin went hunting the McMahon-Helmsley corporation and took them out one by one till he had McMahan trapped all alone. Would be cool to see Cena do something similiar on the next show, have him try and take out the Nexus one by one till there is only him and Wade Barrett left when the match actually comes.</p><p> </p><p> But of course, this IS WWE, and it's unlikely they would make sense TWO weeks in a row. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> ( TNA can't even do one. <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> )</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

Raw might not be able to do it, but SD can <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Candyman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="b0shey" data-cite="b0shey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I bet next week it will be If you smell what the GM is cooking. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Agreed. And then he'll be telling somebody to rest in peace.</p><p> </p><p> To be honest, I doubt anybody is the GM right now. I think Bret Hart being fired was in reaction to Martha's lawsuit (and also Bret's insurance company complaining), and instead of bringing in Abraham Washington, they went this route. I don't mind it. It's the closest thing to having no on screen authority figure, which is my preference.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

Needs some dusty rhodes

[LoganRodzen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dragonmack" data-cite="Dragonmack" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>While the beatdown was unnecessarily drawn out, it was nice to see them having Cena do something that actually makes sense. 7 on 1 handicap match? Lets lesson those odds by taking out one of the Nexus guys. Amazing how fast the area cleared both of the other six Nexus and the rest of the locker room that had emptied out to the ring.<p> </p><p> Reminds me of the time that Austin went hunting the McMahon-Helmsley corporation and took them out one by one till he had McMahan trapped all alone. Would be cool to see Cena do something similiar on the next show, have him try and take out the Nexus one by one till there is only him and Wade Barrett left when the match actually comes.</p><p> </p><p> But of course, this IS WWE, and it's unlikely they would make sense TWO weeks in a row. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> ( TNA can't even do one. <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> )</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's a really cool idea. I'm not a big fan of seeing Cena destroy all of the Nexus guys, but if Barrett is really the only guy whose going to get much out of this then I don't see why that can't happen. Putting more emphasis on Barrett/Cena would be cool, but at the same time they're still trying to build the WWE title match at MITB with Sheamus. So they're somewhat limited in how much they can do with it all. When they announced the handicap match my first thought was it's just going to end in a draw. It'll get out of hand somehow and the ref will end it.</p>

[ampulator]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Is awesome a new word for slightly above average but still pretty bland? <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> As much as The Miz has improved, he's still about #1072 on my list of favourite wrestlers. Right below Reno.</p></div></blockquote><p> This is coming from a person that found Heath Slater interesting. <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Seriously, even in the past, the Miz had more character than Heath did when the Miz was at Slater's stage.</p>

[MasterJ]

Miz is also in my bout as bland it just comes off as a want to be wrestler I guess I just see him as part of The Real World but I dont like hime either, but I dont like alot of new guys in WWE such as, McIntrye, Sheamus ( althougfh I'm warming up to him), Debiase Jr., and Ziggler. I do like Truth, Swagger, and Morrison though

[ampulator]

The problem with the WWE, as Cornette has said, it's that WWE has been "sanitized, homogenized", everyone talks the same, looks the same, acts the same, and everyone sounds as if they were reading off a script. Cornette attributes it to the nature of scripting, I would agree, except some people can pull this off (the Miz, Chris Jericho), but most can't (Ted Dibiase Jr., Jack Swagger).

[PeterHilton]

The problem with the WWE, as Cornette has said, it's that WWE has been "sanitized, homogenized", everyone talks the same, looks the same, acts the same, and everyone sounds as if they were reading off a script. Cornette attributes it to the nature of scripting, I would agree, except some people can pull this off (the Miz, Chris Jericho), but most can't (Ted Dibiase Jr., Jack Swagger).

 

That's a totally fair complaint, but the people running WWE would tell you that they need to be able to create a certain amount of predictability for business purposes.

 

They know - in general - what works and what's always worked and that's what they're trying to create.

[ampulator]

That's a totally fair complaint, but the people running WWE would tell you that they need to be able to create a certain amount of predictability for business purposes.

 

They know - in general - what works and what's always worked and that's what they're trying to create.

I'm not saying WWE is doing it wrong. I think a more important complaint is, even if WWE internally lacks diversity in terms of style (it does), WWE was one of the players (though not the only one) that brought about the lack of diversity in wrestling generally. In both cases, it hurts them in the long run.

 

I do not take issue with WWE being Mainstream, but I take issue with it catering too much to it. It makes their wrestling tasteless and bland, something akin when you compare McDonald's to In-N-Out Burgers (like their food), Johnny Rockets (love their food), or the Heart-Attack Grill (where I haven' been before). If WWE was more like Burger King, that would be more acceptable.

 

The lack of diversity has also hurt WWE's own product. Unless you are really talented (Kofi Kingston) or very determined (the Miz), or both (Kurt Angle), you never really develop the skills necessary to be much. To WWE's credit, a lot of their wrestlers are pretty safe, pretty consistent, and enough of them know their fundamentals. To their discredit, their other skills are lacking.

 

I'll give Ted Dibiase again, as an example. He's average in size. He's got a decent look. But he's about dull as a piece of cardboard. He can't get any heat, especially by himself. He's also a very basic, if consistent, worker. Or Dolph Ziggler. Your cookie-cutter good-looking heel. or Drew McIntyre, whose long talks makes C-SPAN look interesting. Or Sheamus, who is your typical selfish prick who is cowardly most of time who talks mostly a big game.

 

It's just that, I've seen all of this before, but not only that, they don't feel like they are BEING a heel or a face, but they feel like their acting AS one, with a lot of emotion drained out.

[BurningHamster]

This is coming from a person that found Heath Slater interesting. Seriously, even in the past, the Miz had more character than Heath did when the Miz was at Slater's stage.

 

Don't get me started on Heath Slater. Dude is underrated in the ring and has the kind of weird charisma that completely goes over people's heads leaving them thinking he is just some bobbing ginger idiot when in actual fact he is a freaking genius who would blow your mind if it was open enough to fully appreciate the power of the Slater.

 

The Miz started out as generic ****y who can't do anything, and has improved to generic ****y but able to do it better than most of the current roster and passable enough in the ring to where I don't want to see him crippled and forced to retire but it would be a stretch to say I enjoy anything he does. Also "I'm Awesome" is the worst catchphrase ever and makes him sound like some 14 year old gamer or something.

 

Or maybe it's just the fact that as was said, the WWE is so predictable and homogenized at this point that I latch onto the NXT guys more as they are something new and that show had a much higher level of unpredictability due to nobody really planning ahead on it too much.

 

P.S. I heard CM Punk is injured and out for a month or two? Man, seriously wondering if there is a reason to hold on to my early august Smackdown tickets now. The rest of that roster is pretty freakin thin.

[Linsolv]

The Miz started out as generic ****y who can't do anything, and has improved to generic ****y but able to do it better than most of the current roster and passable enough in the ring to where I don't want to see him crippled and forced to retire but it would be a stretch to say I enjoy anything he does.

 

Wait. You hate him because you say he's generic, but who isn't these days? I mean, wrestling is about stereotypes. You can boil almost any gimmick down to some one-word description and write it off as generic. And for fun, I'll do it just with ROH wrestlers.

 

Austin Aries, ****y. Tyler Black, wholesome. [Roderick Strong has me beat. He's playing around with a sort of paranoid thing lately, but he still has hints of his old wholesome gimmick.] Davey Richards, wrestling machine. Briscoes, poor.

 

All gimmicks are generic. Don't try to complain because someone does it so well that they make it perfectly the standard.

[juggaloninjalee]

Look I think Miz has a long way to go in order to be GREAT! He is however more entertaining and interesting than Sheamus, Slater, Swagger, and most of the roster.

 

People I enjoy more than Miz... Kane, Cena (I enjoyed him back when he feuded with Guerrero. Want to see him get destroyed by NXT), Nexus (Barrett in particular), CM Punk, and I am sure a couple others. That is just my list of WWE guys off the top of my head.

 

Miz in a year could be someone to really get behind though.

[RingofHonorGuard]

The Miz, Chris Jericho, and now The Nexus(just to see how bad it's going to fail in the end) are the only reasons I even tune into WWE anymore. And I guess to an extent Sheamus.

 

Miz is the only one who makes an effort to be creative, and the only thing I see holding him back in the long-term of being a mega star is his body. He's never going to be a guy that can put on the muscles like The Rock or Austin, even though I feel like he has(or is on his way to having) just as entertaining skills on the mic. He will be a multiple time WWE champion before he's finished though, and will likely have a job with the company long after a lot of the top talents are gone due to his charisma. I could -easily- see The Miz as the new age announcer when he retires.

 

He made super face Cena interesting to me, which is his job. He followed Jerishow with ShowMiz, which I felt was an awesome play on the previous story(which is something the WWE is never able to do anymore).

 

I think the Miz is going to end up as the guy behind The Nexus. It fits him, it would elevate him, and if you think about it... it makes a lot of sense. They're targeting John Cena, who the Miz never really got complete closure with, and could never defeat him. Who better to start a group up to go after John Cena(and other stars to a lesser extent) than Miz? The fact that Bryan Danielson is no longer there, and suspiciously left the group(storyline wise) only adds to my speculation. They could tie that in with The Miz booting him out.

 

I see some big things in his future regardless of whether my above is fact or fiction.

[juggaloninjalee]

The Miz, Chris Jericho, and now The Nexus(just to see how bad it's going to fail in the end) are the only reasons I even tune into WWE anymore. And I guess to an extent Sheamus.

 

Miz is the only one who makes an effort to be creative, and the only thing I see holding him back in the long-term of being a mega star is his body. He's never going to be a guy that can put on the muscles like The Rock or Austin, even though I feel like he has(or is on his way to having) just as entertaining skills on the mic. He will be a multiple time WWE champion before he's finished though, and will likely have a job with the company long after a lot of the top talents are gone due to his charisma. I could -easily- see The Miz as the new age announcer when he retires.

 

He made super face Cena interesting to me, which is his job. He followed Jerishow with ShowMiz, which I felt was an awesome play on the previous story(which is something the WWE is never able to do anymore).

 

I think the Miz is going to end up as the guy behind The Nexus. It fits him, it would elevate him, and if you think about it... it makes a lot of sense. They're targeting John Cena, who the Miz never really got complete closure with, and could never defeat him. Who better to start a group up to go after John Cena(and other stars to a lesser extent) than Miz? The fact that Bryan Danielson is no longer there, and suspiciously left the group(storyline wise) only adds to my speculation. They could tie that in with The Miz booting him out.

 

I see some big things in his future regardless of whether my above is fact or fiction.

 

Miz being behind Nexus would be good. Although I don't think anyone HAS to be behind it like everyone has said.

[BurningHamster]

Wait. You hate him because you say he's generic, but who isn't these days? I mean, wrestling is about stereotypes. You can boil almost any gimmick down to some one-word description and write it off as generic. And for fun, I'll do it just with ROH wrestlers.

 

Austin Aries, ****y. Tyler Black, wholesome. [Roderick Strong has me beat. He's playing around with a sort of paranoid thing lately, but he still has hints of his old wholesome gimmick.] Davey Richards, wrestling machine. Briscoes, poor.

 

All gimmicks are generic. Don't try to complain because someone does it so well that they make it perfectly the standard.

 

 

Wrestling machine is two words and poor for the Briscoes doesn't even come close to summing it up. I get your point about everyone being pretty generic these days and the basis of wrestling gimmicks being stereotypes. I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

 

But I don't think The Miz performs that well. I think Jericho still does the ****y thing better by adding some humour, being a bit whiny, still being aggressive when he needs to be and delivering his promos more creatively. When Jericho talks there is still a chance I am going to hear something entertaining or unexpected. When The Miz talks I know all I am going to hear is pure bland as hell cookie-cutter current day WWE blather straight from the random promo generator that is the creative team.

 

Now if The Miz jacked up the obnoxiousness like we all know a former reality TV guy must be able to do (those people are cast purely on their inability to pass for decent human beings), if he developed his vocabulary a bit more, if he got coked out of his mind and did some 1980s style ranting and raving, anything ... then I would probably change my mind. Fact is, I don't hate The Miz, I just think things have gotten pretty bad when people are using him as an example of the good stuff going on at the moment in the biggest wrestling company in the world.

 

I mean, all it took for me to change my mind on Randy Orton was for him to stop botching everything and using 20 minutes of chinlocks in a 5 minute match and start kicking people right in the freaking head and suddenly I am sold.

 

P.S. I absolutely hate Tyler Black.

[The Shape]

Miz being behind Nexus would be good. Although I don't think anyone HAS to be behind it like everyone has said.

 

Honestly I think someone does, now they're going on about the "bigger picture" and everything that people "simply can't understand yet" or whatever this week.

[ampulator]

Don't get me started on Heath Slater. Dude is underrated in the ring and has the kind of weird charisma that completely goes over people's heads leaving them thinking he is just some bobbing ginger idiot when in actual fact he is a freaking genius who would blow your mind if it was open enough to fully appreciate the power of the Slater.

 

The Miz started out as generic ****y who can't do anything, and has improved to generic ****y but able to do it better than most of the current roster and passable enough in the ring to where I don't want to see him crippled and forced to retire but it would be a stretch to say I enjoy anything he does. Also "I'm Awesome" is the worst catchphrase ever and makes him sound like some 14 year old gamer or something.

 

Or maybe it's just the fact that as was said, the WWE is so predictable and homogenized at this point that I latch onto the NXT guys more as they are something new and that show had a much higher level of unpredictability due to nobody really planning ahead on it too much.

 

P.S. I heard CM Punk is injured and out for a month or two? Man, seriously wondering if there is a reason to hold on to my early august Smackdown tickets now. The rest of that roster is pretty freakin thin.

LIke I said, you are so Yandere on Heath Slater, it's creepy. You like more Slater more than even Slater likes himself.

 

But on a more serious note, his ringwork is blah. To be fair, so is Dolph Ziggler's. Or Drew McIntyre's. Or Sheamus's. Or... well, any of the Nexus guys. Safe? Yes. Consistent Yes? Interesting and captivating? No.

 

He just doesn't stand out much. He stands out only a bit, but only because he's so naturally generic and dull that even most people can't be that way naturally, only artificially. It's not his fault if that's who he is. It just doesn't change the fact that's who he is.

 

As for the Nexus guys, it isn't anything I haven't seen before, one variation or another. Now, I don't hold them against that. But, so far, they might not have the skills... though that hasn't stopped the WWE before.

 

And the thing with the Miz is, it's not that he's so much better, but that's better in everything in general compared to a lot of people. He has vastly improved. I can see his fundamentals are incredibly solid, as compared to John Morroson, who looks... a bit vapid in the ring.

[PeterHilton]

I'm not saying WWE is doing it wrong. I think a more important complaint is, even if WWE internally lacks diversity in terms of style (it does), WWE was one of the players (though not the only one) that brought about the lack of diversity in wrestling generally. In both cases, it hurts them in the long run.

 

I do not take issue with WWE being Mainstream, but I take issue with it catering too much to it. It makes their wrestling tasteless and bland, something akin when you compare McDonald's to In-N-Out Burgers (like their food), Johnny Rockets (love their food), or the Heart-Attack Grill (where I haven' been before). If WWE was more like Burger King, that would be more acceptable.

 

The lack of diversity has also hurt WWE's own product. Unless you are really talented (Kofi Kingston) or very determined (the Miz), or both (Kurt Angle), you never really develop the skills necessary to be much. To WWE's credit, a lot of their wrestlers are pretty safe, pretty consistent, and enough of them know their fundamentals. To their discredit, their other skills are lacking.

 

I'll give Ted Dibiase again, as an example. He's average in size. He's got a decent look. But he's about dull as a piece of cardboard. He can't get any heat, especially by himself. He's also a very basic, if consistent, worker. Or Dolph Ziggler. Your cookie-cutter good-looking heel. or Drew McIntyre, whose long talks makes C-SPAN look interesting. Or Sheamus, who is your typical selfish prick who is cowardly most of time who talks mostly a big game.

 

It's just that, I've seen all of this before, but not only that, they don't feel like they are BEING a heel or a face, but they feel like their acting AS one, with a lot of emotion drained out.

 

Don't disagree with anything you're saying.

 

But - again - I'm sure that the people running WWE would say that everthing they've done was done in order to make their business stronger and more stable.

 

They dumbed down the product, simplified the storylines, and gone with incredibly generic characters, which all pissess off the net fans. To the WWE, those decisions were made specifically to cater to a younger, easier to predict, easier to please(and much less fickle) audience.

 

They also spent a decade buying out competition, purchasing video libraries, and diversifying the revenue streams.

 

That means the E will get much less low points and - admittedly - much less high points.

 

So there you go: everything you said is true and valid and to the people running the E I don't think they care. They probably don't thinks its possible to spend too much time catering to the mainstream

 

I'm not saying I think its a great idea. I'm just saying that's what it is.