The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[PeterHilton]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

 

There is no reason to end the Wrestlemania streak. There is absolutely nothing anyone else can gain from it, that couldn't be gained by beating Taker in a regular PPV.

 

There is no reason to let Undertaker retire, anyways. He can become a "Force" to reckon with once or twice a year, and dissapear into the beyond whenever he is done with whatever evil he needs to right.

 

There is no reason Shaemus, Punk, or someone else couldn't beat him in a normal PPV, and not get the rub, desired result. IF a clean PPV win doesn't get someone over, ending a streak won't either.

 

All ending the streak does is tarnish the Undertaker's legacy, one that could be kept around, for even more years to come... even if he is pretty much retired. Just show up in October, Say "I've been watching you from the darkness, I am here to give you your dues. At Wrestlemania there will be a Casket Match...." and so on and so forth.

 

Undertaker isn't even 50 yet, he could easily get his body back in condition if he was on an annual or semi annual schedule.

 

EDIT: Right now, one of the draws to Wrestlemania is watching Undertaker "Defend" his streak. IF they end it, then they no longer have that as drawing power. I repeat, there is no reason to end it at all. However, I can come up with dozens of reasons NOT to end it.

 

The idea that beating Undertaker at a regular PPV would be the same as beating him at WM and ending the streak is patently ridiculous

 

If you want Taker to retire with the streak in tact, fine. But your comparison is bordering on the stupid.

 

Undertaker has been beaten on PPVs probably hundreds of times

 

But the guy who ended the streak? If done correctly, that would absolutely cement a guy's legacy for years to come.

[TracyBrooksFan]

Any one catch on RAW that Cole and Lawler plugged Foley's Countdown to Lockdown book.

[Linsolv]

You know what you could do? Have Sheamus win 2-3 WMs in a row himself (since he's currently 1-0 in WM) and then have them build, essentially, a new streak.

 

EDIT: There is one thing that has been bothering me. The Labell lock has been pushed as this incredible, unescapable lock. Why does Daniel Bryan even go for pins? They should have that submissions as something that is a threat every time his opponent touches canvas.

[supershot]

You know what you could do? Have Sheamus win 2-3 WMs in a row himself (since he's currently 1-0 in WM) and then have them build, essentially, a new streak.

 

EDIT: There is one thing that has been bothering me. The Labell lock has been pushed as this incredible, unescapable lock. Why does Daniel Bryan even go for pins? They should have that submissions as something that is a threat every time his opponent touches canvas.

 

I could have swore Triple H beat him but I have horrible memory so ill take your word for it.

 

Edit: The RAW GM busted Edge open!!

[Tha Black Phenom]

Edge vs. Laptop at Hell in a Cell. You heard it here first.

 

EDIT: There is one thing that has been bothering me. The Labell lock has been pushed as this incredible, unescapable lock. Why does Daniel Bryan even go for pins? They should have that submissions as something that is a threat every time his opponent touches canvas.

 

There could be reasons for that. Kayfabe-wise, maybe scoring a pin is inherently easier than locking in a submission that once enclenched, the opponent will try to get out of it as a reflex.

 

If anything, locking on your signature submission early on sounds pretty needless and will make the user waste his stamina for nothing.

[Slim Jim]

Edge vs. Laptop at Hell in a Cell. You heard it here first.

 

I didn't

[jwt13]

Raw is pure wrestlecrap nowadays a talking computer as the GM and the having a wrestler beat up a talking computer smh

[Tha Black Phenom]

I didn't

 

Yeah, well.

 

I cringed at the talking laptop but I'm glad it was a one-time thing. They should just get it over with already, but I guess they're still running around like rats trying to find the perfect man.

[Linsolv]

I could have swore Triple H beat him but I have horrible memory so ill take your word for it.

 

Edit: The RAW GM busted Edge open!!

 

You're right, I'm sorry. He got trips back later and that's what stuck in my head. My bad!

[Hulkamaniac85]

Any ideas who you think is the GM? Im holding out for hope that its someone super cool. Like the Million Dollar Man or Roddy Piper. A legend is clearly what i want. We'll see though, they definitely need to get the reveal over with though, it's getting dumber and dumber by the week.

[jwt13]

Any ideas who you think is the GM? Im holding out for hope that its someone super cool. Like the Million Dollar Man or Roddy Piper. A legend is clearly what i want. We'll see though, they definitely need to get the reveal over with though, it's getting dumber and dumber by the week.

 

Lita that's why it has it out for edge

[Hulkamaniac85]

Hahaha, that would be funny. Very disappointing, but quite funny.

 

What the heck, commercial break during a Jericho promo????? you have to be kidding me!

[jwt13]

I would like it to be steph,VKM, or Hbk but the iron sheik would be an epic GM if u ask me

[Hulkamaniac85]

How about Randy Savage??? Maybe thats why the relationship seems to be warming up with him and the WWE? haha yea thats very wishful thinking, but yea that would be awesome

[crownsy]

Hahaha, that would be funny. Very disappointing, but quite funny.

 

What the heck, commercial break during a Jericho promo????? you have to be kidding me!

 

It's a nod to this promo, one of his best ever, which i assume he wanted to get in on his last night with the company for the moment.

 

[supershot]

You're right, I'm sorry. He got trips back later and that's what stuck in my head. My bad!

 

Its cool. He's constantly talking about how he took out Triple H so I can see the mix up.

[Hulkamaniac85]

Hahaha oh yea i remember that promo. Good stuff, went over my head til you pointed it out, thanks!

[djthefunkchris]

The idea that beating Undertaker at a regular PPV would be the same as beating him at WM and ending the streak is patently ridiculous

 

If you want Taker to retire with the streak in tact, fine. But your comparison is bordering on the stupid.

 

Undertaker has been beaten on PPVs probably hundreds of times

 

But the guy who ended the streak? If done correctly, that would absolutely cement a guy's legacy for years to come.

 

Undertaker losing clean, as I said, would put someone over. If it doesn't, then ending the streak isn't going to make a difference either, becuase of the Bolded "IF".

 

If it's done right, it's going to be someone that people would actually find believable, or somewhat in the same class of Undertaker... someone like HBK, HHH, Cena, etc. might get something from it. Someone like Shaemus, at this point in his carreer, might just get a riot from it, or worse.... people never except him and his contract never gets resigned.

 

In other words, I don't see anyone actually benefitting, that isn't already at that calibre. I don't think it's going to "Solidify" anyone going from UM to ME (tew terms), and I don't think people realise the chance of negativity that it could do to one's carreer.

[Linsolv]

I'm sorry DJ but I really have to disagree about that last point. Assuming that you don't have Kevin Nash beat him with a cattle prod, how could ending the streak make Undertaker's legacy suddenly go away? I mean Shawn Michaels failed twice, and his legacy is "Mr Wreslemania" and really getting better for WM season. Yet somehow two clean losses did nothing to make him any less of a legend.

 

I mean, yeah. There are some ways you can ruin it. Fingerpoke of doom would make the whole streak meaningless. Cheating so horrible that it negates either workers' skill (cattle prod, for instance) would probably be viewed as a meaningless ending. But if you had a nice feud leading in and then a clean (or even mostly-clean) finish at WM would basically create about 6 months of rocket fuel. Would it cement their career? No, probably not. But it's a lot easier to build a structure around someone to keep them in superstardom than it is to create a superstar without that "rocket fuel," however temporary it might be.

 

On the other hand, plenty of people have beaten Undertaker clean in PPVs other than WM and how many of those losses mattered outside the storyline?

[Stennick]

Linslov who has beaten the Undertaker clean on pay per view?

[Tha Black Phenom]

Hmmm... I recall Khali beating him back in 2005, as the mark of the beginning of his monster push. Also Batista, hitting two Batista Bombs to pin him at Cyber Sunday 07, I think.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm sorry DJ but I really have to disagree about that last point. Assuming that you don't have Kevin Nash beat him with a cattle prod, how could ending the streak make Undertaker's legacy suddenly go away? I mean Shawn Michaels failed twice, and his legacy is "Mr Wreslemania" and really getting better for WM season. Yet somehow two clean losses did nothing to make him any less of a legend.

 

I mean, yeah. There are some ways you can ruin it. Fingerpoke of doom would make the whole streak meaningless. Cheating so horrible that it negates either workers' skill (cattle prod, for instance) would probably be viewed as a meaningless ending. But if you had a nice feud leading in and then a clean (or even mostly-clean) finish at WM would basically create about 6 months of rocket fuel. Would it cement their career? No, probably not. But it's a lot easier to build a structure around someone to keep them in superstardom than it is to create a superstar without that "rocket fuel," however temporary it might be.

 

On the other hand, plenty of people have beaten Undertaker clean in PPVs other than WM and how many of those losses mattered outside the storyline?

I meantioned HBK...

someone like HBK, HHH, Cena, etc. might get something from it.

It, meaning ending Undertaker's streak.

 

And..

Linslov who has beaten the Undertaker clean on pay per view?

 

This.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Regardless, I agree generally that ending the streak isn't as much needed - looking at my two given examples, so far it still looks like a clean decision over Taker at a PPV can be a relatively fresh boost for any up-and-comer.

 

Someone ending the streak would probably cement their legacy, but on a much darker note(no pun intended). And I kinda feel as if following from that, should it happen whoever gets the rub will be almost.. "forced" towards stardom as they can't really drop that nugget. It kind of becomes like a binding contract. Of course, there's no problems if the worker in question is destined to be the future of the company, but that's just it, he has to be really.. locked in and.. worth it. Sheamus is one of those 'next big things' to blossom, yet I'm not even sure if I'd nod him to do it. Is he the best suited guy right now for consideration, however? Maybe so.

[Stennick]

Yeah I was more or less asking who has beaten The Undertaker that wasn't already a multiple time world champion. Batista in 07 had already main evented Wrestlemania.

 

Khali is a good example of someone that has beaten Taker and I'll give them that. Although they had Khali go over Taker can you imagine him beating him for the streak? What has Khali done SINCE his Taker feud? Nothing is he even on the show anymore?

 

This is the danger you run into. Lashley, Lesnar, Khali, heck even Rob Van Dam they gave him the ECW Title, the WWE Title, a huge push and then look busted for pot and moved down the card.

 

So many guys have been pushed throughout wrestling's history as unstoppable. WCW did the same thing with Wrath they built up a winning streak and I felt they were clearly headed towards Wrath vs. Goldberg at Starrcade and they dropped the ball with that.

 

Wrestling has so many guys flake out because its just the nature of the business. Why were the Gagnes always in the main event? Because they weren't going anywhere. Same with Lawler in Memphis, Von Erichs, Harts, Triple H. You push the guys you know absolutely are not going anywhere.

 

As I have said a million times there is no such thing as someone "needing" a push. Sheamous went from beating up Jamie Knoble to winning the World Championship in a months time. There was no build up, there was no pushing him up the card.

 

Everyone has got to stop thinking about what happens on the internet and reality. On the internet people hated him and the choice because he was still too green, wasn't built up enough etc. In reality he got a massive reaction of boos after winning and the WWE saw no drop off in business what so ever ratings or pay per view buy wise with him as their flagship champion.

 

Its not 1997 anymore and wrestling doesn't live and die by one wrestler being in or out of the title picture. In 1997 if either company had Sheamus win their title like that it would have caused a back lash but when you're the only BRAND in town there is no backlash. People will watch no matter what you do and they have proven that.

 

My point is that there is no business to be made from ending it. Sheamus ending it isn't going to make him somehow generate more pay per view buys, its not going to sell t shirts (although Taker's 19-0 or whatever it shirts sure would sell). So many people constantly come in here talking about a wrestler needs this or that to be "at the next level" and in our eyes yes thats the case because thats what we like. We like to see a guy making his way up the card and at each level of the card we like to see some defining moment that brings him up to the next level. A title win (HBK WM 12) , a memorable feud (Foley vs. Triple H), some iconic moment (Austin stunnering McMahon).

 

The sad truth is Sheamus and others have proven that if somebody who has never wreslted a day in the WWE came in and won the WWE Championship in their debut match business would not change, there would be no negative reaction to it outside of whatever the WWE wanted their to be.

 

Like or not John Cena doesn't turn heel, they don't have the attitude era and a million other things the internet wants they don't happen because there is no business reason to do them. Their making plenty of money doing things the way their doing them and ultimately when people grow tired of their product and stop making them mountains of money they will change but until they put the title on a guy and people change the channel and stop buying ppvs, or until people get tired of PG WWE and change the channel nothing is and nothing should change.

 

Its crazy to say "this guy doing what someone has never done in the history of wrestling is a good idea" when its not needed. Its the exact same theory as the John Cena heel turn. "He needs to turn heel" Why? Their making piles of money for everyone including the heels he's facing with him as a face. Why risk all that for nothing? Just like why risk screwing something up.

 

If its not broke don't fix it.

[Linsolv]

Gimme a minute...

 

I thought someone said it earlier to be honest so I really didn't expect to be called on that. I can find a few notable losses that don't clarify how it ended (Hogan in 91, Angle in 06, Big Show in 08, Trips in 09 [Elimination Chamber], Kane last month).

 

For Hogan, he was already a star in 91.

Angle did indeed enjoy great success, though the win over Taker was near the end of his WWE run.

Show was on comedy duty for a while last year, which may or may not speak to how much the win gave him.

Trips was already a big star when he got Taker to do the job.

Kane is still in that storyline, so we have yet to see how much it'll matter after they settle it.