The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[djthefunkchris]

I was at Wrestlemania 23 but wish a casual fan and I am convince casual fans kinda bring shows down for me. They aren't as into it as me and the things they like and notice are completely different from the things I look for and notice.

 

Same with watching this past Sundays Wrestlemania. The casual fan liked completely different things and for different reasons.

 

Casual fans are greater then hardcore fans, at least when it comes to the WWE. You're going to set yourself up for dissapointment when talking about anything Wrestling, with a casual fan. I don't know why, but I'm able to bounce back and forth (see through the eyes of a casual fan, and notice all the hardcore fan stuff).

 

In the eyes of a casual fan, I tend to look at things face value. IF someone is supposed to be stronger then everyone else, that's how I look at it (Mark Henry). IF they are supposed to never give up, no matter the odds, that's how I look at them (Cena). IF they are an underdog, and overcome odds, that's how I see them (Mysterio, Bryan Daniels). I don't care about work-rate, actual ring knowledge, how good of a wrestler they really are, etc.

 

As a Hardcore fan, I see slips, mistakes, things that a casual fan wouldn't even consider to be a "slip" or a "mistake". Especially on Raw (for example). These are things a casual fan will just look at and say, wow! He made it work anyways, even though he lost his balance!

 

Stuff we see and talk about here are important to us, but for a casual fan, it's a totally different world. When you take into account that most wrestling fans are casual fans, it makes it easier to not get upset by "Wrestlecrap". Hulk Hogan "Hulking Up" was a huge thing back in the day... We would see him getting his butt beat just waiting for that moment when he has had enough and turns into Hulkamania, getting his strength through our cheers, etc.... It's just part of the show. It's like watching a favorite TV show every week, nothing more.

 

For example: I always try to watch the show as a casual fan, because the guys I watch it with our casual fans. They don't look at who knows what move or any of that stuff.... They mark out for exciting moves, sure. They know the difference between an exciting match and a boring one, but they don't care if WWE makes it look like John Cena is a far better wrestler then Kurt Angle, because it's just a show to them. Wondering about that stuff is like wondering if Clint Eastwood in "real life" could fast draw like he does on the westerns. No one cares... well, I mean it would be cool if he could, but the movie or show itself is what matters. We know that whomever plays Superman in the movie can't really fly, but it doesn't hurt the movie because he acts like he can. Same with wrestling, and that's where I think hardcore fans lose everything, and everytime from. No one cares if Glen Jacobs is a nice guy in real life, or if Mark Calaway is a locker room leader. They just see the "Monster" Kane, and the "Deadman" Undertaker. Hardcore fans miss out on alot of fun, and what is sad, is that no matter who posts something like I just did, no one that thinks of themselves as a hardcore wrestling fan will ever be able to enjoy wrestling in that way. It's a real shame..... because it's almost like the hardcore wrestling fan's are the ones that are the actual "marks" and the casual fan is the "Smart Mark" or "smarks" or whatever... because the casual fan could care less who would win "for real". They know it's just a show.

[juggaloninjalee]

Casual fans are greater then hardcore fans, at least when it comes to the WWE. You're going to set yourself up for dissapointment when talking about anything Wrestling, with a casual fan. I don't know why, but I'm able to bounce back and forth (see through the eyes of a casual fan, and notice all the hardcore fan stuff).

 

In the eyes of a casual fan, I tend to look at things face value. IF someone is supposed to be stronger then everyone else, that's how I look at it (Mark Henry). IF they are supposed to never give up, no matter the odds, that's how I look at them (Cena). IF they are an underdog, and overcome odds, that's how I see them (Mysterio, Bryan Daniels). I don't care about work-rate, actual ring knowledge, how good of a wrestler they really are, etc.

 

As a Hardcore fan, I see slips, mistakes, things that a casual fan wouldn't even consider to be a "slip" or a "mistake". Especially on Raw (for example). These are things a casual fan will just look at and say, wow! He made it work anyways, even though he lost his balance!

 

Stuff we see and talk about here are important to us, but for a casual fan, it's a totally different world. When you take into account that most wrestling fans are casual fans, it makes it easier to not get upset by "Wrestlecrap". Hulk Hogan "Hulking Up" was a huge thing back in the day... We would see him getting his butt beat just waiting for that moment when he has had enough and turns into Hulkamania, getting his strength through our cheers, etc.... It's just part of the show. It's like watching a favorite TV show every week, nothing more.

 

For example: I always try to watch the show as a casual fan, because the guys I watch it with our casual fans. They don't look at who knows what move or any of that stuff.... They mark out for exciting moves, sure. They know the difference between an exciting match and a boring one, but they don't care if WWE makes it look like John Cena is a far better wrestler then Kurt Angle, because it's just a show to them. Wondering about that stuff is like wondering if Clint Eastwood in "real life" could fast draw like he does on the westerns. No one cares... well, I mean it would be cool if he could, but the movie or show itself is what matters. We know that whomever plays Superman in the movie can't really fly, but it doesn't hurt the movie because he acts like he can. Same with wrestling, and that's where I think hardcore fans lose everything, and everytime from. No one cares if Glen Jacobs is a nice guy in real life, or if Mark Calaway is a locker room leader. They just see the "Monster" Kane, and the "Deadman" Undertaker. Hardcore fans miss out on alot of fun, and what is sad, is that no matter who posts something like I just did, no one that thinks of themselves as a hardcore wrestling fan will ever be able to enjoy wrestling in that way. It's a real shame..... because it's almost like the hardcore wrestling fan's are the ones that are the actual "marks" and the casual fan is the "Smart Mark" or "smarks" or whatever... because the casual fan could care less who would win "for real". They know it's just a show.

 

You are spot on unfortunately. I would love nothing more than to be able to enjoy wrestling the way I once did. It is something I have worked on a lot and while I don't think work rate is something I use to judge how much I like someone or even the technicality of everything. To me it comes down to the types of characters. I just notice things a lot.

 

The thing that got me is I was talking about Sting and Undertaker on Sunday. Mentioned how some people thought the Taker video was for Sting and then after my 5 minute rant my friend didn't say anything back. I asked if they knew who Sting was and they had no clue! I was baffled and I basically quit talking about wrestling from the 90s and stuff.

[djthefunkchris]

You are spot on unfortunately. I would love nothing more than to be able to enjoy wrestling the way I once did. It is something I have worked on a lot and while I don't think work rate is something I use to judge how much I like someone or even the technicality of everything. To me it comes down to the types of characters. I just notice things a lot.

 

The thing that got me is I was talking about Sting and Undertaker on Sunday. Mentioned how some people thought the Taker video was for Sting and then after my 5 minute rant my friend didn't say anything back. I asked if they knew who Sting was and they had no clue! I was baffled and I basically quit talking about wrestling from the 90s and stuff.

 

My friends know who TNA is, mainly because I hipped them to it. Otherwise they would just watch the WWE show before it, and never switch channels to TNA afterword. IF I hadn't of hipped them to it, they still would have known who Sting was, mainly because they have always watched wrestling and are around my age (some older, some younger). So they been watching since at least the mid-80's.

 

And yeah, when you see the same cookie cutter character, and replicated in the same promotion, it becomes a matter of who does it better in who you lik with it, and the one's that don't do so well, you tend to not like... Or your want a change in someone that has been doing it for years.

 

A casual fan would just chalk it up as that's the character, like them or not, shrug their shoulders when you suggest a change and say "Yeah, that would be cool", but not really get into it like you would.

 

There is a bunch of things that watching as a casual fan, you just would never actually care about, that is "TOPIC OF THE DAY" within' a forum like this one. The casual fan wouldn't notice, nor care half as much about it.

[Fantabulous]

Supposedly Undertaker and Triple H both got fined for an unprotected chair shot.

It was on the corporate website so I'm inclined to believe the fine was legit.

[djthefunkchris]

Supposedly Undertaker and Triple H both got fined for an unprotected chair shot.

 

It was on the corporate website so I'm inclined to believe the fine was legit.

 

This is kind of ironic that this come back up when talking about the difference between Casual and Hardcore fans... Something like this is a matter of concern or at least a topic to hardcore fans. A casual fan wouldn't look it up, care, nor think anything of it.... They would be like, well, if it was unsafe, good. They should know better. A hardcore fan might go "Jeesh, WWE is making themselves look wimpy!" or "I can't believe they fined them two, in the positions they are in!" A casual fan doesn't even care if HHH is married to Stephanie McMahan, unless it becomes part of a storyline (like the feud with Orton a while back).

[juggaloninjalee]

I don't feel that wrestling needs unprotected chair shots. They can do the spots with the hand taking the shot. Unprotected chair shots don't add anything if you ask me.

[ampulator]

This is kind of ironic that this come back up when talking about the difference between Casual and Hardcore fans... Something like this is a matter of concern or at least a topic to hardcore fans. A casual fan wouldn't look it up, care, nor think anything of it.... They would be like, well, if it was unsafe, good. They should know better. A hardcore fan might go "Jeesh, WWE is making themselves look wimpy!" or "I can't believe they fined them two, in the positions they are in!" A casual fan doesn't even care if HHH is married to Stephanie McMahan, unless it becomes part of a storyline (like the feud with Orton a while back).

Which Harcore fan are you talking about? I bet most IWC hate unprotected chairshots, ever since the You-Know-Who did the You-Know-What.

[Fantabulous]

I'd like to think it didn't have to take Chris Benoit going gonzo on his family for people to realize that unprotected chair shots to the head, especially full-force ones, were stupid.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't feel that wrestling needs unprotected chair shots. They can do the spots with the hand taking the shot. Unprotected chair shots don't add anything if you ask me.

 

Which Harcore fan are you talking about? I bet most IWC hate unprotected chairshots, ever since the You-Know-Who did the You-Know-What.

 

I'd like to think it didn't have to take Chris Benoit going gonzo on his family for people to realize that unprotected chair shots to the head, especially full-force ones, were stupid.

 

/nod... Just something that hardcore fans would notice, that a casual wouldn't... The reason they notice is irrelevant. I would think most people wouldn't care for anything that is too unsafe, but I'm sure I seen a couple posts (not here) that was talking about WWE being wimpy (used a different word) when I googled it yesturday.

 

Here, I would definately not expect anyone to think like that though. IWC or not, I don't know, but you can google it as well to see the same results.

 

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4RNTN_enUS364US364&q=Undertaker+and+HHH+fined

 

Most do think this is the right thing to do though (fine them).

[juggaloninjalee]

/nod... Just something that hardcore fans would notice, that a casual wouldn't... The reason they notice is irrelevant. I would think most people wouldn't care for anything that is too unsafe, but I'm sure I seen a couple posts (not here) that was talking about WWE being wimpy (used a different word) when I googled it yesturday.

 

Here, I would definately not expect anyone to think like that though. IWC or not, I don't know, but you can google it as well to see the same results.

 

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4RNTN_enUS364US364&q=Undertaker+and+HHH+fined

 

Most do think this is the right thing to do though (fine them).

 

Yeah I googled it and saw some people saying teach wrestlers how to take unprotected chair shots. That was the dumbest thing I have ever heard considering it isn't something you need in wrestling. I want my guys safe so they have longer careers as well.

 

I see your point DJ.

[djthefunkchris]

I like this statement the best..

 

Personally, I thought that the chair shot added a little extra something to the match. Triple H was so desperate to win that he was going to do anything and everything that he had to do to defeat this man.

 

Given the fact that Triple H and Undertaker were the culprits of the chair shot, you can bet that there was a lot of leeway in their fine and/or suspension.

 

followed by

 

In fact, this press release is most likely more for show because I doubt that Vince McMahon is going to fine those two men any substantial amount of money.

 

Give WWE credit for at least saying they are fining these two. It makes their policy look like it is a real big deal in the eyes of some outside observers.

 

It's like both in one post.... It added something to the Win or Die trying thing, but then goes on to say Probably only did that for publicity reasons (the fine).

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/656074-undertaker-alberto-del-rio-john-cena-and-wednesdays-wwe-news/entry/59835-wwe-news-triple-h-and-undertaker-fined-by-wwe-after-wrestlemania-27

[The Final Countdown]

I'd like to think it didn't have to take Chris Benoit going gonzo on his family for people to realize that unprotected chair shots to the head, especially full-force ones, were stupid.

Absolutely. I cringed when I watched that Rock/Foley PPV match where Rock handcuffed his arms behind his back and bashed him repeatedly. I'm glad that that sort of thing has been phased out.

[juggaloninjalee]

I like this statement the best..

 

 

 

followed by

 

 

 

It's like both in one post.... It added something to the Win or Die trying thing, but then goes on to say Probably only did that for publicity reasons (the fine).

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/656074-undertaker-alberto-del-rio-john-cena-and-wednesdays-wwe-news/entry/59835-wwe-news-triple-h-and-undertaker-fined-by-wwe-after-wrestlemania-27

 

To me a "columnist" saying those things when he has no idea how much the fines were for and how legit the WWE about it is ridiculous. It's sad that he says those things.

 

Absolutely. I cringed when I watched that Rock/Foley PPV match where Rock handcuffed his arms behind his back and bashed him repeatedly. I'm glad that that sort of thing has been phased out.

 

I remember that and while I didn't cringe I am still glad they took it out of the normal everyday chair shots. I want wrestlers to live longer and be able to do more shows. In a sense I care about their well being even if I don't know them personally. They are people I respect and enjoy.

[Jaysin]

http://www.usanetwork.com/series/toughenough/video/#v1317730- A deleted scene from Tough Enough featuring CM Punk.

 

I like how the other guys are staring and they look so intimidated

[Hive]

I don't feel that wrestling needs unprotected chair shots. They can do the spots with the hand taking the shot. Unprotected chair shots don't add anything if you ask me.

 

+1 from me

[Hive]

<long post about being a casual fan vs. hardcore fan>

 

I agree with this. I started watching wrestling in my late childhood in the mid 90's and watched it for a couple of years or so before growing bored with it (or they stopped sending it on tv, can't recall which one occured first actually). Then in 2004 (at least I think it was 2004) I began watching casually again, after having been completely out of wrestling for 8-9 years. And although I didn't quite look at it with the same eyes I did when I was a child, it was still pretty great. And the fact that I hardly knew any of the guys on the roster (even the old time WWE'ers I didn't really know that well, having mainly watched WCW in my childhood) meant that I could start from a clean slate with few predetermined preferences or ideas about the wrestlers. And since I didn't read about wrestling online, I knew only what I saw on tv. And it was pretty great, I was able to really mark out for the guys I liked live into the whole thing. The fact that it was predetermined didn't really bother me much then, probably because I didn't know anything about the behind-the-scenes stuff. And while I did definately enjoy guys who had good in-ring abilities, characters and storylines meant so much more to me. I really liked Batista when they first started turning him face, I thought he was a cool and charismatic guy with great charisma. I even enjoyed Randy Orton because he was the lead babyface at the time, constantly trying to overcome the odds when fighting Evolution... and I hated Triple H, not because I knew he had backstage clout, but because he acted like a weasel on-screen. Good times.

 

Then I got bored with wrestling again after a while and didn't get back into it untill I heard about TEW, at which point I quickly lost my casual innocense.

 

I think the biggest difference is that back then, I would go "awww man, I really wish he had been a bit more lucky and won that belt!" while nowadays, I'll go "awww man, I really wish they would have had sense enough to book him to win that belt!"...

[juggaloninjalee]

http://www.usanetwork.com/series/toughenough/video/#v1317730- A deleted scene from Tough Enough featuring CM Punk.

 

I like how the other guys are staring and they look so intimidated

 

"He knows all the other WWE superstars personally. Why is he not a WWE superstar? I don't quite get that?"

 

That part was funny.

[jhd1]

Supposedly Undertaker and Triple H both got fined for an unprotected chair shot.

 

When I was watching that match I did wonder how they'd got away with it. Obviously the answer is they didn't.

 

Fully agree with the comments about chair shots to the head being stupid - I won't even watch the Rock - Foley match that someone mentioned. Having seen the documentary (don't remember which one it is) filmed around then, Mick's behaviour backstage afterwards is more than enough to tell you that it won't do you any good.

[ShaunGBD]

When I was watching that match I did wonder how they'd got away with it. Obviously the answer is they didn't.

 

Fully agree with the comments about chair shots to the head being stupid - I won't even watch the Rock - Foley match that someone mentioned. Having seen the documentary (don't remember which one it is) filmed around then, Mick's behaviour backstage afterwards is more than enough to tell you that it won't do you any good.

 

Their was a rumor that Cena got fined for saying hell or something with The Rock. Well it came out a few days later they just said it, to get people off their back. I doubt they got fined. It was a Wrestlemania Main Event match. No one got fined.

 

You are thinking of Beyond the Mat.

[Moe Hunter]

The chair shot wasn't unprotected, Taker got his right hand up. The first view *looks* unprotected, but the replay clearly showed he got a hand up to block it. Problem is, chair shots to the head, no matter how protected they are, are still banned. That's why Hart vs McMahon last year had to suck so bad.

[Fantabulous]

The chair shot wasn't unprotected, Taker got his right hand up. The first view *looks* unprotected, but the replay clearly showed he got a hand up to block it. Problem is, chair shots to the head, no matter how protected they are, are still banned. That's why Hart vs McMahon last year had to suck so bad.

 

http://corporate.wwe.com/documents/WWEImPACTConcussionProgram24.pdf

 

The policy in question. My guess is the fine was a nominal one and they probably earned that much in the time it took for them to walk to the ring.

[PoisonedSuperman]

Hey as a casual fan who knows about this site I have a little more inside knowledge then most of the pople that I know but the only thing I have to say is that most people do know that HHH is married to Stephanie.

 

There's this guy I work with, I think he's the only guy there who watches wrestling, he's about 65 (maybe 62?), anyways leading up to wrestlemania he was really interested in the Undertaker and Hunter match. I told him there was no way the streak was going to broken and he said that Triple H was married to Ed McMahons daughter so if anyone was going to do it, it would be him.

 

I just laughed and said true, Ed, Vince.. what's the difference? LOL

[bak42]

I just laughed and said true, Ed, Vince.. what's the difference? LOL

 

One of them is dead.

[Tha Black Phenom]

H and Taker probably just winged that before their match, being that we haven't seen such a chair shot in a long time, they figured finally doing one would make more of a statement or something. When something's used more sparingly, you could say it gains value...

 

but I agree with the rest. It's not like it's needed either. but whatever.

 

DJ I also agree with your post. Part of me also sometimes manages to watch it like a casual fan, it's a bit 50-50 overall but I can still spot things the way we do too. The mind is curious and diverse. Also I brought my friend at WrestleMania in the movies who hasn't seen wrestling in a long time, he absolutely enjoyed it too so I guess that helped me see things in perspective. His favorite moment was the stunner on Booker T, he's even been talking all about it today. However, he sat through the Snoop Dogg segment and other lackluster segments while I went to the order food so I may still have more positive recollection of the PPV than him

[Teh_Showtime]

Just read that there are no 3 hr Raws for the next 10 weeks due to Tough Enough.

 

Either lots of trades, or welcome to midcard hell.