The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[OctoberRaven]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Final Countdown" data-cite="The Final Countdown" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I completely agree with this. I thought it was a mistake not to have ADR beat Edge at Mania (and I'm not just saying that in hindsight after Edge's retirement; I felt that way when it happened.)</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh, definitely.</p><p> </p><p> In fact, best case scenario IMO would be ADR winning, cheating Christian at ER, then Orton winning when Edge and Christian help by taking out ADR's interfering cronies.</p><p> </p><p> Come to think of it, Edge was kind of a puppy-kicking babyface too.</p>

[ampulator]

<p>You know, if ADR had done this, few, if anyone, would have complained. Why? Because it's smart booking. </p><p> </p><p>

But let's face it: despite whatever "Devil's Advocates" say that the WWE may know how to book/write/match-make than we do (and they no longer are, for a long time), WWE thinks in the short-term these days, not the long-term. Any "plans" they have are too inflexible, while their actually "planning" skills are horrible in the first place-unprepared for changes, unable to capitalize on a worker's momentum, unable to significantly attempt to new things in a bold, yet prepared way. If they do it, they do it timidly, recklessly, or sometimes, even both. </p><p> </p><p>

I like Randy Orton. I like his gimmick. But I think this WWE's looking Orton's $$$ and his popularity, but not at the long-term booking of the situation. They should eased Orton in-which isn't hard. I bet many of us would not be too shocked if Orton won at the next PPV. But Christian losing so fast? Really? </p><p> </p><p>

Let's face it-WWE has no idea what it needs to do, and if it does, is unwilling to do the necessary sacrifices to do such changes. Every time they take a risk, it was too little, too late, too badly executed, too poorly written, too poorly booked, and often too poorly match-maked.</p>

[Save_Us.Necro]

<p>It's simple business.</p><p> </p><p>

Orton is the number 2 or 3 guy in the WWE right now.</p><p> </p><p>

Chrisstian, while being a net darling, is nowhere near the level of a top star/gets the reaction or sells merch a top star does. Him winning the belt confused me because it looks simply like he got the kind of rub Mysterio got when Eddie died. </p><p> </p><p>

If this does lead to Christian turning heel (which I hope it does, bringing back the douchey "All about the Peeps" Christian that was over huge before he bailed to TNA), I think its a very good move for the WWE and SD as a whole.</p>

[ampulator]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Save_Us.Necro" data-cite="Save_Us.Necro" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's simple business.<p> </p><p> Orton is the number 2 or 3 guy in the WWE right now.</p><p> </p><p> Chrisstian, while being a net darling, is nowhere near the level of a top star/gets the reaction or sells merch a top star does. Him winning the belt confused me because it looks simply like he got the kind of rub Mysterio got when Eddie died. </p><p> </p><p> If this does lead to Christian turning heel (which I hope it does, bringing back the douchey "All about the Peeps" Christian that was over huge before he bailed to TNA), I think its a very good move for the WWE and SD as a whole.</p></div></blockquote><p> That wouldn't be a bad move, but it isn't the best move, either. But their best move has already... passed them, so, if this is where they are going, fine. If it's Orton that turns heel... well, that's just tired booking.</p>

[Save_Us.Necro]

<p>I doubt Orton turns heel. Christian on the other hand hasn't worked heel since returning. </p><p> </p><p>

Personally I would have just kept ADR on SD and gave him a long title run but it looks as though the rumors of him/Cena at SummerSlam for the title could be somewhat legit.</p>

[Candyman]

<p>Pretty much what OctoberRaven is saying, word for word.</p><p> </p><p>

Is it the most logical decision they've ever made? No. But there's not much logic in questioning decisions as they're playing out, either. Go back and criticize stuff they did 3 years ago all you want, if it didn't work.</p><p> </p><p>

But I've accepted the fact that some people simply refuse to acknowledge that the WWE is capable of doing anything that's not completely wrong, so I won't go any further.</p><p> </p><p>

Thanks for the spoilers, though. Finally brings an end to my streak of about 2 years worth of Smackdown's that I didn't know what was going to happen before I watched.</p>

[ShaunGBD]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Candyman" data-cite="Candyman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Thanks for the spoilers, though. Finally brings an end to my streak of about 2 years worth of Smackdown's that I didn't know what was going to happen before I watched.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Kidding or serious?</p>

[lazorbeak]

<p>Seriously guys, thanks for the entertainingly ridiculous histrionics. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Astil" data-cite="Astil" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>F*** you WWE. I'm done with wrestling.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hashasheen" data-cite="Hashasheen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I just read the spoilers. **** you WWE. <img alt=":mad:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/mad.png.69834f23b9a8bf290d98375f56f1c794.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hashasheen" data-cite="Hashasheen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's not about Orton getting another title run. It's about completely raping a beautiful moment in a man's career and for his fans. I wasn't even a Christian fan until I spent time in the last few months looking at old WWF and TNA stuff.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Never mind that you haven't actually seen this stuff happen or that the fans chose the match they wanted to see, does someone losing the belt really "rape" the moment of winning the belt? The Eddie/Rey parallels are spot-on, and the only even somewhat surprising thing is that it happened as quickly as it did.</p><p> </p><p> Seriously, just breathe in and out slowly until your sanity comes back.</p>

[Russo]

Well I didn't know I would come in here and find damn spoilers, thinks alot this is stuff that should have been in white not everyone reads spoilers <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/mad.png.69834f23b9a8bf290d98375f56f1c794.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Hashasheen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Never mind that you haven't actually seen this stuff happen or that the fans chose the match they wanted to see, does someone losing the belt really "rape" the moment of winning the belt?</div></blockquote> Losing it at all? No. But losing it so quickly, for no obvious purpose or heat? Yes. It does. Consider Sting versus Hogan at Starrcade. Built up for months, it had Sting win the gold from the nWo in a somewhat cheap manner, but the fans were still pleased. Look at the moment three months later, when Hogan was still in the main-event, holding the gold once again... That moment got raped. <p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> The Eddie/Rey parallels are spot-on, and the only even somewhat surprising thing is that it happened as quickly as it did.</div></blockquote> Even Rey got a decent run. I'm not saying Christian should have had a Hogan-esque run, but seriously, give the guy at least a month until the feel-good factor ebbs out before giving it to Orton.

[Self]

Part of the reason I don't watch WWE any more. They do things that make "business sense" but more often than not that involves pushing people I don't like over people I do. Randy Orton and John Cena are the Champions. Again. I don't care how much merchandise they pull in. I don't want to watch that, so I will continue not to. Plenty more wrestling in the sea.

[Charasmatic Enigma]

So... after seeing Christian win the belt at Extreme Rules, I decide that I'll give watching Smackdown a go until he inevitably drops the belt in a month or two... because Christian vs some of the up and coming Heels that were just drafted to Smackdown last week will be much better TV than super Cena being champ on RAW... *reads thread* oh, well my streak of not watching Smackdown for over 4 years looks like its going to continue :/

[20LEgend]

Booooooooooooo

[GruntMark]

<p>Orton's still terrible.</p><p> </p><p>

That might be the worst of it all.</p>

[Lexa90]

<p>The thing is that Christian was MAD over at Extreme Rules... Even more than Orton.</p><p> </p><p>

I am a huge Christian mark. I have been since his awesome heel run in 2004-2005.</p><p> </p><p>

The problem I have with WWE at the moment is that we have Cena champ on RAW and Orton on Smackdown... YAWN!</p><p> </p><p>

Christian could have atleast kept the title for a couple of months... Maybe lose the title to Orton at Summerslam. Atleast Christian could have dragged Mark Henry to a watchable title match... Which Orton probably can't.</p><p> </p><p>

Well what do we get now at the Smackdown title picture? Orton vs Henry, GOD!</p><p>

Orton vs Barrett again? yawn. Orton vs Big useless Zeke? ... get the drift?</p>

[Adam Ryland]

A couple of official warnings have been handed out. I'm not sure how many times I have to say this, but cut out the swearing. Not referring to minor events as "rape" probably wouldn't go amiss, either.

[eayragt]

Putting the title on Orton makes business sense - Orton sells, PPVs, Christian doesn't.

 

But...

 

JOHN CENA IS CHAMPION ON RAW!!!

 

They don't need Christian selling PPVs, because Cena will be doing that fine on his own!

 

The Miz and Christian being title holders at the same time wouldn't make business sense, but that hasn't happened.

 

There is no reason this shoudn't have waited until Over the Limit,

[FINisher]

<p>Extreme Rules was by far one of the better WWE PPV's I've watched in recent years tbh. Opener was good, first main event was awesome in so many ways, second main event had it's moments but it was a bit of a letdown after the fantastic ladder match.</p><p> </p><p>

Really saddened by the SD! spoilers. I just can't understand. The moment at Extreme Rules when Edge came to the ringside.. It was a great, great moment in wrestling history. Reminded me of Guerrero/Benoit at Wrestlemania or Guerrero's victory over Brock. I'm not sure if I'm that interested to even see where this goes in SD! ..</p>

[The Shape]

<p>I think that officially wraps up my annual interest in WWE until next year's Mania season.</p><p> </p><p>

I don't care what anyone trying to play devil's advocate says - this is the wrong decision. Cena is the champ on Raw which compensates for any issues money wise, Orton is still on SD and could be used in a high profile role, and Christian is not going to turn heel because well - look at the Smackdown roster. Look at the guys that would've been fresh opponents for Christian (Sheamus, Barrett and Cody) that a feud could've done wonders for, but who have already faced Orton countless times and who will not benefit from it at all.</p><p> </p><p>

They could have at least given him what, three weeks? I think everyone knew he was going to be a transitional champion but not giving him even that isn't "a smart business move" it is just a slap in the face. He hasn't dropped it to anyone who'll actually gain anything from the win, and nor was there even any reason for the match beyond "Ho ho ho I'm Randy Orton give me a title shot." This is by far the laziest, most ridiculous booking there's been in quite a long time and no matter who was "supposed" to win and when, criticism is well and truly justified.</p>

[Nathers7]

From the spoilers it says that Christian was just as over as Orton was and Christian was way more over than Orton at Extreme Rules so that kills the theory that this was good for busiiness. There's casual fans all over WWE's Facebook page calling this one of the worst booking decisions ever. The only way it works is if 1 of them turns heel (there's hints to this in spoilers) and they fued but at the end of the day, WWE are so high on Orton that I can't see Christian ever getting it back. He really couldn't have been made to look any worse by this. They absolutely killed his creibility in his very first title defence.

[Lexa90]

<p>Oh and a short review and thoughts on Extreme Rules and RAW.</p><p> </p><p>

Extreme Rules:</p><p> </p><p>

Randy Orton vs CM Punk:</p><p>

This match was okay to good. I still miss the incredible Last Man Standing matches in the good old days (for me) For example HHH vs HBK. Some good spots still. The chair around the neck looked a little akward but overall brutal move. The RKO on the table was okay. But already used so many times so meh.</p><p>

The Finish was fine... Orton went over, whatever. *** stars</p><p> </p><p>

Kofi vs Sheamus for the US title:</p><p>

I can't stand unanounced matches.. This was still better than they usually are. Some nice spots with Kofi. The Finish was really good. Kofi went over, no surprise there. **3/4</p><p> </p><p>

The bullwhipping something match. JR/King vs Swagger/Cole</p><p>

Cole is still an awesome heel personality... But this needs to end quickly. Getting old FAST. JR's ankle locks were sloppy as hell, but I can't blame him.</p><p>

meh... *1/2</p><p> </p><p>

Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes:</p><p>

It was IMO better than their Wrestlemania match. Some nice spots backstage. I just can't stand when they brawl in the crowd. Rey went over... Nothing shocking there. ***</p><p> </p><p>

Michelle Mccool vs Layla:</p><p>

These women tried their best and it clearly showed. By far the best WWE Diva match in a looong time. Sad try to turn Layla face before the match. but what the hell. Kharma's a bitch debuted after the match. Michelle sold the fear and agony perfectly... Kong/Kharma destroyed Michelle with the implant buster... Kong's facial expressions were top notch and the music was awesome. Sad to see one of the better diva's leave. But what can you do? </p><p>

**1/4</p><p> </p><p>

Alberto Del Rio vs Christian for the World Title:</p><p>

Oh man my inner mark went nuts for this match. Awesome match. Some insane pops for Christian too. Nice spots indeed... Some crazy looking spots too. "Big useless" Brodus Clay got busted open BAD... I'm still shocked about Christian tossing the small ladder right in the face of him. Bad looking botch spot when Christian pushed Del Rio off the ladder. And BLOOD at ringside.</p><p>

Awesome moment when Christian won... I marked out like a little girl.</p><p>

****1/4</p><p> </p><p>

Tag Team title match:</p><p>

I think it's funny when the announcers try to put Show and Kane over as the biggest Tag Champs ever.. When they have ben before, AND Show was heavier back then <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> MEEEEH match. With Jobbers at ringside as lumberjacks. I can't even remember when I have seen a good Lumberjack match.</p><p>

Trying to push Zeke? Good luck...</p><p>

*1/2</p><p> </p><p>

John Cena vs JoMo vs The Miz:</p><p>

Waaaaay better than I thought it would be. Non-stop action. Some nice spots. The double suplex looked nasty. Starship Pain from the cage was... well it was what it was. R-Truth run in was perfect. I will give props to WWE Creative from turning Truth from a jobber no one cares of to one of the top heels of the company, let's see how long it takes to ruin it ;-) John Cena won.. Surprise. Now he can be champ to Mania... and probably retain it there too..</p><p>

***1/2</p><p> </p><p>

Overall a very good PPV.</p><p> </p><p>

RAW Thoughts:</p><p>

I only need to say one thing.... Are they really trying to push Mason "Batista number 2" Ryan. OH GOD NO!!! We already had one Batista.. We do not need another one... especially not when this guy is EVEN WORSE!!!</p><p> </p><p>

This show was BAAAAD!!! Patriotic **** from WWE of course... Nice to see Lillian back though <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Kharma's a bitch was awesome again. The Rock was good as usual. Did we really need another Mae Young skit?</p><p> </p><p>

I already told my thoughts abour the Smackdown spoiler thingy... so.</p>

[LoNdOn]

Just read the spoiler.........don't remember a time where I have been so angry with something WWE have done. You can say that it should have been expected but that doesn't make me any less angry that it did.

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Chrisstian, while being a net darling, is nowhere near the level of a top star</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> And he never will be if they've cut off the biggest push of his career. I never watched WWE when Christian was around but I love him now because he's good in the ring. Putting the belt on either Christian or ADR was a good idea because it was fresh. Cena was so much better last year because they took him out of title contention for many months. The writers must be thinking that now Orton's on SD going for a different title it's a good idea to slap a major belt on him right away instead of pushing other guys to main event like they should be doing. And if WWE let Punk go they're crazy.</p>

[Tha Black Phenom]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Save_Us.Necro" data-cite="Save_Us.Necro" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's simple business.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's insecure business.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OctoberRaven" data-cite="OctoberRaven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Oh give me a break.<p> </p><p> Since you already broke the news, I'm going to talk freely about it now.</p><p> </p><p> Christian was <strong><em>NEVER</em></strong> supposed to have the belt in the first place. And he would have NEVER been a successful long term champion for WWE. RoH, yes. TNA, maybe. Not WWE.</p><p> </p><p> He is a great worker, yes, I'm not denying that. But he's not a guy you can make WWE-level bank with. Plain and simple.</p><p> </p><p> He got an Iron Sheik run which is still more than guys like Roddy Piper and Jake Roberts ever got. Countless talented workers never even get to be in a major promotion like WWE.</p><p> </p><p> You can't be happy that he got this recognition even if it was only for a week?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Come on. The reason you don't see him as a top level star... is because he's never been let the chance to run with the ball, and they just forbid him that chance right from the get go.</p><p> </p><p> It was a stupid decision. What about Eddie, Rey, JBL, Swagger, Punk and more? Did any of them look like top level stars when they won their first one? Well maybe Rey to an extent as he won it on the big stage but even coming off that first reign, because of the booking he didn't look over for a while, even relegated to UM status upon his return.</p><p> </p><p> The difference with them is they were given a shot to run with the ball. Some of them paid off... some of them didn't. But irregardless they had that chance. Christian never did, it's totally unfair to say he would've never amounted to anything. Dozens of title reigns have been crafted to build up the superstar as he begins his run, to showcase him if he has the skills. Considering they pulled an attempt like this just last year, AND that as mentioned, they have Money Maker as champion on Raw, I'm really perplexed at the outcome and hope there is much more behind it.</p>

[Fantabulous]

<p>Orton is going to be the guy Smackdown is built around so it makes sense he gets the World title. Will Christian be harmed by dropping the belt so quickly? In the short-term, yes, because he comes off as guy who can't cut it as World champion. Depending on what they have planned for Christian, the damage might only be short-term; if the idea is to make him the top heel on Smackdown to feud with Orton, then he can be rebuilt to where the short title reign doesn't hurt him so much because it adds to his character and can be a logical part of why he turns heel. However, if Christian getting the belt was strictly to transition it to Orton, and Christian is put back in the midcard and used to get over the heels they <em>do</em> have plans for, then the short title run just puts the rubber stamp on Christian as someone they flat out do not see as a top level guy.</p><p> </p><p>

The reason for the short title run will become clear quickly, but if I'm playing the odds, I'd say it was just to get the belt to Orton.</p>