The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[cappyboy]

There's not a lot wrong with WWE recreating a storyline that came off fantastically well years ago that most of their fans aren't aware of, especially as there are several outcomes to the story. There are a lot of worse places to go.

 

Problem with that theory is do they treat their belt with enough dignity and importance to have it work anywhere near as well as where it succeeded six years ago? As I understand the way this storyline worked back in RoH, one of the reasons the story worked so well is because the world title there was held in such high esteem that it would be a disgrace for someone to take the belt elsewhere. Especially to a place that represented selling out a la WWE. Where is there for the WWE to fear their title would go?

 

Ring of Honor? They may be the cult fed. But if the WWE crowd isn't aware of this storyline having originated there, they aren't going to sweat the title going there. TNA? Puh lease. They talk one game and actually play another. They'll never be a threat with that mindset. Without someplace to fear the belt disappearing to, I don't see how this story can have the necessary juice.

If this were the mid to late 90's, the obvious answer would be WCW. Look at happened with Medusa and the Women's Title. That would be the spectre you could raise of Punk doing with the WWE title if he left with it if this were happening in the landscape of 15 years ago.

 

But right now they have so many titles and they seem to get passed around so regularly, is anybody really going to care if they are one title lighter? Either in the crowd or the roster in the character sense? If the answer's no as it would appear to be, then this is an incredibly stupid story choice to make.

[Linsolv]

Problem with that theory is do they treat their belt with enough dignity and importance to have it work anywhere near as well as where it succeeded six years ago? As I understand the way this storyline worked back in RoH, one of the reasons the story worked so well is because the world title there was held in such high esteem that it would be a disgrace for someone to take the belt elsewhere. Especially to a place that represented selling out a la WWE. Where is there for the WWE to fear their title would go?

 

Ring of Honor? They may be the cult fed. But if the WWE crowd isn't aware of this storyline having originated there, they aren't going to sweat the title going there.

 

I think you have it backwards. If you brought the ROH title to RAW, they'd laugh you out of the stadium. It'd be like trying to buy your ticket with monopoly money.

 

On the other hand, if you brought the WWE heavyweight title to ROH, they'd be crowing about it for years.

[Fantabulous]

I think you have it backwards. If you brought the ROH title to RAW, they'd laugh you out of the stadium. It'd be like trying to buy your ticket with monopoly money.

 

On the other hand, if you brought the WWE heavyweight title to ROH, they'd be crowing about it for years.

 

I don't think you've grasped what he's saying. He's not talking about the ROH fans reaction to the WWE title going there but the WWE fans reaction to the title going there. That being, there wouldn't be one because they don't know about ROH and don't care about ROH.

[eayragt]

Oh, it's not going to work as well as it did six years ago. It just can't - the original was perfect timing, this one whatever the conclusion is has already been predicted. Probably closer to the time there will be a little more certainty as to what Punk was doing, while back in 2005 everyone thought the Aries match was Punk's last, and then no-one knew what his true last match was so expected a title change any time. Now, we've got three options:

 

1) Cena wins. Punk leaves.

 

Zzzzz..... hopefully if this does happed Punk just takes a few months off and comes back quickly to face Cena, rather than disappearing.

 

2) Punk beats Cena. Punk leaves.

 

Possible - leavers winning on their way out (e.g. RVD over naughty Orton) is not unknown, especially as WWE want Punk back. Gives an excuse for a tournament / multi-man match when there's a new belt (giving the excuse to put the belt on ADR or Morrison), or an excuse to go back to one WWE World Heavyweight Champion.

 

3) Punk beats Cena. Punk stays.

 

Punk could stay regularly, Punk could "reluctantly" appear time to time, Punk could extend until he's defeated a la 4 years ago and then take time off.

 

That's the basics of the results of the storyline. No-one had those as the options years ago

 

Hoping for some form of 3, as that still leave for several options going forward (and more importantly more Punk). Think it's more likely it'll be 1, which I'll accept as long as ADR takes the title off Cena at SummerSlam. Although I think 2's unlikely, I'm not ruling it out.

[ShaunGBD]

Oh, it's not going to work as well as it did six years ago. It just can't - the original was perfect timing, this one whatever the conclusion is has already been predicted. Probably closer to the time there will be a little more certainty as to what Punk was doing, while back in 2005 everyone thought the Aries match was Punk's last, and then no-one knew what his true last match was so expected a title change any time. Now, we've got three options:

 

1) Cena wins. Punk leaves.

 

Zzzzz..... hopefully if this does happed Punk just takes a few months off and comes back quickly to face Cena, rather than disappearing.

 

2) Punk beats Cena. Punk leaves.

 

Possible - leavers winning on their way out (e.g. RVD over naughty Orton) is not unknown, especially as WWE want Punk back. Gives an excuse for a tournament / multi-man match when there's a new belt (giving the excuse to put the belt on ADR or Morrison), or an excuse to go back to one WWE World Heavyweight Champion.

 

3) Punk beats Cena. Punk stays.

 

Punk could stay regularly, Punk could "reluctantly" appear time to time, Punk could extend until he's defeated a la 4 years ago and then take time off.

 

That's the basics of the results of the storyline. No-one had those as the options years ago

 

Hoping for some form of 3, as that still leave for several options going forward (and more importantly more Punk). Think it's more likely it'll be 1, which I'll accept as long as ADR takes the title off Cena at SummerSlam. Although I think 2's unlikely, I'm not ruling it out.

 

Not to be mean but stop at 1, 2 and 3 won't happened. What gonna happened is Cena is gonna win and not lose going into WM. To make him look strong. Punk beating him does nothing for anyone. It won't happened.

[Fantabulous]

I'm thinking we get a re-run of Jericho's departure in 2005; Punk loses on the PPV, demands a rematch the next night vowing to leave one way or the other, and Cena FU's him into a lengthy sabbatical.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Not to be mean but stop at 1, 2 and 3 won't happened. What gonna happened is Cena is gonna win and not lose going into WM. To make him look strong. Punk beating him does nothing for anyone. It won't happened.

 

There's no requirement for Cena to look strong though. If we fast-forwarded to Mania and Cena had the title, whether he lost it during the summer and regained it or held it all that time, wouldn't look all that different to me. In overness, he edges the roster out by far, making the proverbial Mania match-up the same as it'd always look, for the most part.

 

Not to mention they can always change their minds within moment's notice to have a secondary main-event for the WWE title.

[ShaunGBD]

Not to mention they can always change their minds within moment's notice to have a secondary main-event for the WWE title.

 

I agree with you. honestly I think they should give the title to another match. The match doesn't need it, but I read Vince is hell bend on making it the biggest match of all time. Also I think they think it would help the match if cena runs through everyone. I don't think it needed for him to run through everyone but just what I think.

[Jaysin]

So I'm watching Nitro starting at the VERY beginning. I'm on the second episode now and god I hate Mongo. Bischoff actually isn't bad on commentary. At least I don't think so. Him and Heenan play off each other well, but Mongo just drags the whole team down.

 

Wayyyy too much football talk.

[cappyboy]

So I'm watching Nitro starting at the VERY beginning. I'm on the second episode now and god I hate Mongo. Bischoff actually isn't bad on commentary. At least I don't think so. Him and Heenan play off each other well, but Mongo just drags the whole team down.

 

Wayyyy too much football talk.

 

Well, he hadn't been out of the game very long at that point. Personally I always liked Mongo. I guess maybe he was an acquired taste. Two questions though.

 

1: Where are you finding to do this from?

 

2: Any chance of pointing Sonfaro there? Seems like this could be a good resource for him and the Megapack.

[Jaysin]

Well, he hadn't been out of the game very long at that point. Personally I always liked Mongo. I guess maybe he was an acquired taste. Two questions though.

 

1: Where are you finding to do this from?

 

2: Any chance of pointing Sonfaro there? Seems like this could be a good resource for him and the Megapack.

 

1: My brother's friend ordered DVDs of all the Nitro's and pay per views that someone burned onto DVD-R's. It's AWESOME.

 

2: I found uuhh, another source. I'll see if he's interested in it.

[Candyman]

I think you have it backwards. If you brought the ROH title to RAW, they'd laugh you out of the stadium. It'd be like trying to buy your ticket with monopoly money.

 

On the other hand, if you brought the WWE heavyweight title to ROH, they'd be crowing about it for years.

 

I think you're looking at it wrong. It's not about what the reaction would be if the title showed up in the other company, because that doesn't matter - it's never going to actually go there - it's about the reaction of threatening to take away the title from its respective promotion. ROH fans would be a lot more outraged than WWE fans if somebody took one of their titles.

 

But if they did run this storyline with Punk now, they don't need to have anywhere for him to threaten to take the title. The threat just has to be him leaving the company with it. Having somewhere for him to go would just be icing on the cake.

[1234]

I now love Punk even more. Back in 2005 he posted the following message on livejournal.com (http://cmpunk.livejournal.com/15096.html)

 

I knew I was gone at the beggining of the year.

I just woke up one day and knew. That's the way I work a lot of the time. I think it's creepy too, but it's really helpful. I honestly knew i'd be history by June.

Come say goodbye on Saturday, I promise to go out with a bang.

Trust me.

XxX

 

Now on twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/cmpunk) he has posted (pieced together from 3 tweets, stupid character limit)

 

I knew I was gone at the beginning of the year. I just woke up one day and I knew. That's the way I work a lot of the time.

I think it's creepy too, but it's really helpful. I knew I'd be history by July. Come say goodbye on July 17th. I promise to go out with a bang. Trust me. XxX

 

I personally love little refrences like that, so when I saw this it made me laugh. Just got to hope the WWE follow ROH's example and let Punk win the title.

[Zeel1]

...Guy's got a good memory, doesn't he? I kinda doubt I'd remember a livejournal post I made six years ago...

 

Certainly digging the allusions, I wonder if he'd get away with doing them on-screen.

[Hive]

Oh man, that re-use of an old blog entry (or whatever it is) is pure gold. Damn Punk is awesome.

 

And re-using this (apparantly pretty awesome) storyline can be gold for WWE, I think. His last match is at MiTB, right? Then have him take the title, declare that he'll leave with it... only to have a babyface winner of the MiTB match declare that he wants to stop Punk, challenge him on the spot and take the title... Morrison seems like the best choice here. Could make him a huge hero for the fans just like that.

[cappyboy]

 

And re-using this (apparantly pretty awesome) storyline can be gold for WWE, I think. His last match is at MiTB, right? Then have him take the title, declare that he'll leave with it... only to have a babyface winner of the MiTB match declare that he wants to stop Punk, challenge him on the spot and take the title... Morrison seems like the best choice here. Could make him a huge hero for the fans just like that.

 

Problem with that thinking is that it makes too much sense. That would be

 

GASP

 

Wrestling. That would give the belt

 

SHUDDER

 

real value.

 

WWE doesn't have the stomach for that kind of behavior these days.

[Jaysin]

I see Punk winning against Cena and then Del Rio winning the Raw MITB and then cashes in on Punk after he beats Cena.

 

Remember that MITB is in Chicago and Chicago boos Cena and cheers Punk, so Del Rio is bound to get even more heat by beating Punk even if they're both heels.

[LoNdOn]

I see Punk winning against Cena and then Del Rio winning the Raw MITB and then cashes in on Punk after he beats Cena.

 

Remember that MITB is in Chicago and Chicago boos Cena and cheers Punk, so Del Rio is bound to get even more heat by beating Punk even if they're both heels.

 

That would probably be the best way to play it. Not sure it will unfold as predicted though.

[1234]

I see Punk winning against Cena and then Del Rio winning the Raw MITB and then cashes in on Punk after he beats Cena.

 

Remember that MITB is in Chicago and Chicago boos Cena and cheers Punk, so Del Rio is bound to get even more heat by beating Punk even if they're both heels.

 

To be honest I thought that as well, but it doesn't really lead to a fued being set up for the next PPV. I get the point that its Chicago and they treat Punk as a face, so Del Rio (or any other heel for that matter) will get a large amount of heat from the crowd, but where does it go from their.

 

-You just had a heel save the promotions main title. That's a pretty face move no matter how you say it.

-The main face of the brand has just been beaten, and having Cena come out and say "You didn't beat me for the title" lacks the kick it should have since Cena just lost the title. And beside's Cena there isn't another face in a real position to challenge for the title.

 

The options for me are:

-Face cashes in MiTB (However this will create a clash in Chicago since they won't be cheered much)

-A heel wins MiTB and turns to save the belt. (Or perhaps The Miz saving the belt he believes is his, however again the same problem as above)

-Punk leaves MiTB with the title, and appears out of the crowd at Raw to gloat about his victory. Only for the GM to say since he is in his ring, he is eligible to compete, and out comes a face to try and save the title. This could be strung out for a bit, like the original Summer Of Punk.

[cappyboy]

But that still raises the question of what there is to save it from. Even if Punk were to take it with him, where's the harm in it? I think even the markiest fan knows WWE would just vacate the belt because Punk left. There's no place to fear it going where it could be disgraced. WWE's so far above the rest of the wrestling landscape as their fanbase knows it there's no threat to the title even if Punk "takes it with him".

[1234]

But that still raises the question of what there is to save it from. Even if Punk were to take it with him, where's the harm in it? I think even the markiest fan knows WWE would just vacate the belt because Punk left. There's no place to fear it going where it could be disgraced. WWE's so far above the rest of the wrestling landscape as their fanbase knows it there's no threat to the title even if Punk "takes it with him".

 

I think there would be the belief that the actual belt was gone. Yes they could have a tournament to crown a new champion, but with the belt gone it would be pointless. Having Punk & the belt not show up for a few weeks would get the fear going in my opinion. This assuming he actually leaves Chicago with the belt. If not it would just be the belief it could happen

 

And because I have just watch Raw fully, I have to give some love to the great Punk line "I suggest you watch me make snow angels"

[ShaunGBD]

And because I have just watch Raw fully, I have to give some love to the great Punk line "I suggest you watch me make snow angels"

 

Didn't he said that at a ROH show? I think I get it now.

[Jaysin]

Wow, I completely forgot that The Giant's first match ever in WCW was against Hogan for the title.

 

And people complain nowadays about people being godpushed.

 

On my WCW quest, I'm up to Halloween Havoc 95. I am aware I have no life, but I imagine I'll be at least through 95 by the end of tomorrow.

 

Definitely gonna start 96 as soon as I'm done. Some of this stuff takes me back to being a little kid being so into WCW and other stuff makes me want to forget about my childhood(Mongo on commentary, Kevin Sullivan in general, Disco Inferno, Zodiac).

 

I catch myself at points turning into a little kid again.

[ampulator]

Wow, I completely forgot that The Giant's first match ever in WCW was against Hogan for the title.

 

And people complain nowadays about people being godpushed.

Although your correct, you are leaving some context out. Although they don't push people as hard they did back then, they push it way faster than they should. On other hand, they did push people extremely fast back then, but they were better reasons to do back then-WWE and WCW were competing against each other, and they go all out against each other.

 

Also, if they didn't work out as good as they hoped, they simply dialed it back. These days, WWE follows the philosophy of "if it's not already broken, drive it the ground" mentality.

[Jaysin]

World War 3 may have been a giant cluster ****, but there was some pretty good drama. If anyone gets irritated with my random WCW posts in here, I'll stop them. I just figured this was the best place since WWE owns WCW and what not.