The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[shawn michaels]

Ahhmm...to the guys above me posting aboout the IWC...you know you're part of it, right?? All of us in this discussion are. And you say they're wrong, right? Okay, than ask yourselves this: Do you guys think you're wrong when you voice your opinions?

 

Let me put it this way: I can bet that a lot of the IWC "members" (let's call them that way) were complete marks before they decided to go to the internet and talk about wrestling. They watched the shows, they loved it. But then they discovered some forum with a nice e-fed that made them meet new people, people that made them see wrestling in a new diferent way. And so they became marks, or markISH. And after that transformation, they never saw Pro Wrestling with the same eyes again... Why?

 

Simple! I won't even start writing dozens of lines about how looking into something 100 times makes it look predictable. It does. (I'll leave the dozens of lines for the rest of the post.) And we will understand that thing even beter, from inside out, if we talk with other 100 times viewers as us. So the IWC "members" usually become experts when they watch a wrestling show, whether they want it or not. Sure, that doesn't mean that all the IWC members became experts online. Yes, i know, that's not the point. The point is that we put pro wrestling under the magnifying glass so many times that we end up knowing how to tell the difference between the simple and the complicated.

The simple is always the pop mainstream product, built for the casual unexperienced fans. it sells, cause it's easy to understand, and makes people who know squat about wrestling buy ppvs. The complicated is art, made for those who understand what they're watching to some extent, and that actually know how to evaluate what they're watching.

 

Don't get me wrong, i'm not criticizing those who buy the easy stuff. Everyone likes things their own way. But the fact that the casual audience settles (or evens asks for) something we don't like doesn't make us wrong, doesn't make our standards wrong. It just proves that those guys specifically are buying the "easy" stuff, wich means that the "easy" stuff is working.

 

Bottom line, the IWC guys are experts, (some more than others, and all of them with diferent tastes) and that's why a main stream wrestling promotion like wwe wouldn't give a crap for them. It's like pitting The Backstreet Boys vs Mozart. Sure, some people may like BSB better, and they have the right to do so. But at the end of the day, who do we read about in books and study in schools? Mozart or BSB? Obvious answer. And who would sell the biggest? Well...surprise...the backstreet boys. More than 130 million records sold in over a decade prove my point...for those who love facts. The BSB-Mozart is just an example, but people have to understand the diference. One represents something that is easy to replicate and easier to pitch to the consumers. Boy/girl bands (as well as pop music in general) are catchy, easy going, with musics and lyrics combinations that just get stuck in our heads no matter how much we hate them, so we end up buying them so we can hear them, forget them and move along.Mozart is pretty much the exact way around. So...who's really right more times? The IWC or the guys that think that it's ALL coreographed and pain free, as one of you said it?

 

Sorry about the long post.

 

Btw, look at smackdown! What is that??? Virtually every week (or almost) there are 4 guys that end up brawling on the ring, and then Teddy Long comes out and books a tag team match. Every single week! (Or almost) What is the deal with that? Talk about lazy writers! This even ads up to the rest of my post, though it was supposed to be a side note. Oh well... Thanks for your time reading this "very small" post.

[Teh_Showtime]

I agreed with your post up until the SD part. Maybe a month or 2 ago I would have bought it, but currently, Smackdown is great and it is the best it has been since Mid-Late 2009 (imo). It's not lazy so much as it is just classic wrestling logic. It's amazing that the simple things that made wrestling famous can sometimes actually sell a product .

[shawn michaels]

I agreed with your post up until the SD part. Maybe a month or 2 ago I would have bought it, but currently, Smackdown is great and it is the best it has been since Mid-Late 2009 (imo). It's not lazy so much as it is just classic wrestling logic. It's amazing that the simple things that made wrestling famous can sometimes actually sell a product .

 

You can agree with the full post than, because i brought up the sd deal after watching a replay. The one after the Christian heel turn. Where Sheamus beats orton...and before that?? A tag team match...made by...Teddy Long...after a 4.way.brawl. Btw i edited the post, to better complete some thoughts on the other subjects.

[Teh_Showtime]

It's not like it's random though, nor is it the same 4 people every week. If it advances the story in a logical way it is a plus in my book. I think you might be referring to the Daniel Bryan and Sin Cara vs Rhodes/DiBiase matches though. In that case I would agree with you.

[Guest codey]

Bottom line, the IWC guys are experts, (some more than others, and all of them with diferent tastes) and that's why a main stream wrestling promotion like wwe wouldn't give a crap for them. It's like pitting The Backstreet Boys vs Mozart. Sure, some people may like BSB better, and they have the right to do so. But at the end of the day, who do we read about in books and study in schools? Mozart or BSB? Obvious answer. And who would sell the biggest? Well...surprise...the backstreet boys. More than 130 million records sold in a decade prove my point...for those who love facts. The BSB-Mozart iss just an example, but people have to understand the diference. One represents something that is easy to replicate and easier to buy. Boy/girl bands (as well as pop music in general) are catchy, easy going, with musics and lyrics combinations that just get stuck in our heads no matter how much we hate them, so we end up buying them so we can hear them, forget them and move along.Mozart is pretty much the exact way around. So...who's really right more times? The IWC or the guys that think that it's all coreographed, as you said it?

 

 

While this is true, I don't think it really applies to wrestling. Why? The people that go down in the history as the biggest of all time are essentially the BSB. Guys like Hogan, Cena, and Rocky are going down in the history books as the biggest wrestlers of all time.

 

Not to say that they're BSB bad, though. They had the skills to go along with their looks that made sure they stayed on top. Be it in ring, on the microphone, whatever, they're able to stay on top. Guys like Great Khali, however, may have the look, but they're unable to pull it together into a total package, which is why they won't be remembered. I think that's what makes wrestling really special. If you want to truly be remembered for decades, you have to have the total package. You can't be great at just one aspect of your craft. There's a reason people will always remember Ric Flair over Arn Anderson. While they were both (I'd say) equally as good in the ring, Flair could combine that with charisma and became the undeniable star we all know today, whereas Arn couldn't.

[shawn michaels]

It's not like it's random though, nor is it the same 4 people every week. If it advances the story in a logical way it is a plus in my book. I think you might be referring to the Daniel Bryan and Sin Cara vs Rhodes/DiBiase matches though. In that case I would agree with you.

 

Yes, that was the match.

[shawn michaels]

While this is true, I don't think it really applies to wrestling. Why? The people that go down in the history as the biggest of all time are essentially the BSB. Guys like Hogan, Cena, and Rocky are going down in the history books as the biggest wrestlers of all time.

 

Not to say that they're BSB bad, though. They had the skills to go along with their looks that made sure they stayed on top. Be it in ring, on the microphone, whatever, they're able to stay on top. Guys like Great Khali, however, may have the look, but they're unable to pull it together into a total package, which is why they won't be remembered. I think that's what makes wrestling really special. If you want to truly be remembered for decades, you have to have the total package. You can't be great at just one aspect of your craft. There's a reason people will always remember Ric Flair over Arn Anderson. While they were both (I'd say) equally as good in the ring, Flair could combine that with charisma and became the undeniable star we all know today, whereas Arn couldn't.

 

That actually proves my point. The BSB themselves sold 130 million recods so far because they have the total package. They had the looks, they had (still do, i guess) the vocals, and they had the catchy tunes. Much like Cena: Looks, voice, and the catchy tunes. (that last part meaning a decent ring work, but not a great one, or close to best of all times)

 

Ps: Comparing Hogan/Cena to the BSB is actually the "coup des gras", as the BSB are actually the biggest selling boy band ever, so it fits perfectly.

[Guest codey]

lol, I guess you're right. I think I was just skewed against the Backstreet Boys. They're no N*Sync, after all.

[shawn michaels]

lol, I guess you're right. I think I was just skewed against the Backstreet Boys. They're no N*Sync, after all.

 

I'd disagree with you right there. Justin Timberlake is like the John Cena of Pop music for me. I strongly dislike him. Besides the BSB might be...well...the BSB, but all of them actually have vocal abilities. Especially the can't-remember-his-name-that-went-to-Oprah-because-he-has-demons dude. N'Sync by the other hand...is another story. And they sold only 56 million records worldwide.

[Guest codey]

But, POP, man, POP!

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Wow, what? JT is a p cool guy.

[Linsolv]

I'd compare Cena more to Lady GaGa. She's repeatedly demonstrated that she's a skilled pianist, her voice is nice, and every so often she writes something that means anything at all; She's also at the top despite a vocal group of detractors. On the other hand, her mainstream appeal and her gimmick makes her unpalatable to many.

[Jaysin]

The only unique thing about Lady Gaga is her look...her music is no different then any other popstar.

[Teh_Showtime]

The only unique thing about Lady Gaga is her look...her music is no different then any other popstar.

 

She has some unique charisma that makes people flock to her. Same could be said for Cena

[shawn michaels]

Right! Lady Gaga fits. She might sell and she might not be unskilled, but she's no freddie mercury, for example. That guy had the flashy gimmick as well, but boy could he sing...and play, and write...and compose... (so did the rest of queen, but none of them like mercury) Cena is definitely no Mercury. But he's no O-town as well. The fact is that it's to soon to tell what Lady Gaga's impact will be in the long time. I think she was fashion for a while and will disappear. (God i hope so!) Her second album only reached number one because the record label droped the digital sales price to less then one dolar for a few days when it came out. And it still seems that it won't sell as much as fame.

 

But, POP, man, POP!

 

I know. I can give you that much!

[shawn michaels]

Also: What's the deal with Dwayne? He just came out of a blockbuster like fast five (and will be joining the cast for future sequels, acording to Vin Diesel) and last time i heard his movie career hasn't jump the shark. So...what's the deal with him returning to the E and wrestling Cena next year? Why risk an injury when he has steady pay day on films? Or has his acting career began to jump the shark? Actually it hasn't...so... i presume Vince is paying a lot to this guy.

[djthefunkchris]

Also: What's the deal with Dwayne? He just came out of a blockbuster like fast five (and will be joining the cast for future sequels, acording to Vin Diesel) and last time i heard his movie career hasn't jump the shark. So...what's the deal with him returning to the E and wrestling Cena next year? Why risk an injury when he has steady pay day on films? Or has his acting career began to jump the shark? Actually it hasn't...so... i presume Vince is paying a lot to this guy.

 

I'm going to guess that he just missed it. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

Far as your points, I would venture to say that Cena is more like Elvis Presley. Not the best at anything, but has a charasma about him that makes the girls scream... and most men dislike him.

 

BSB would be more like the spirit squad... Hot at the time, wish we could forget them.

[BurningHamster]

This discussion is terrible and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Backstreet Boys? Lady Gaga? Seriously?

[djthefunkchris]

This discussion is terrible and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Backstreet Boys? Lady Gaga? Seriously?

 

I feel the same, but I think they actually like both of them, so I didn't want to... say the wrong thing.

[FlameSnoopy]

This discussion is terrible and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Backstreet Boys? Lady Gaga? Seriously?

 

Haha. My thoughts exactly.

[MasterJ]

The only unique thing about Lady Gaga is her look...her music is no different then any other popstar.

 

she has a penis....that is all:cool:

[Jaysin]

she has a penis....that is all:cool:

 

Can we be friends?

[Teh_Showtime]

Ok, so I was reading an article on B/R today regarding the 10 best PPV build up promos (found here ) I have come to the conclusion that Shawn Michaels' retirement storyline was one of the greatest things in wrestling history.

 

From Royal Rumble 2008 until WrestleMania 26, every feud that HBK was in added another layer of depth to the long term story that would be left in 2010 when he retired at the hands of the Undertaker. The Batista and Chris Jericho feuds were all started off the back of Shawn retiring Flair.

 

It comes full circle from Ric Flair not wanting to admit that it might be time to retire (old yeller), and even Michaels does the same thing in his last match when he slapped Taker after he told him to stay down.

 

The legend gets too confident and is in way over his head. They chose to go against someone who is always seen to raise their game at WM, and their opponents reluctantly agree to the matches.

 

Add that to the foreshadowing that has been happening since the Royal Rumble of 2008 when they were the last 2 left and Shawn's quest to somehow find a way to get a match with Undertaker and you have flawless storytelling.

 

Even though it was never acknowledged as a running storyline, it still is the best angle in history when you consider how long it was.

[milamber]

The WWE roster is big enough to create a few tag teams. Add an extra half hour to Smackdown and between that and Raw you can fit in 2 proper tag matches per week without reducing the singles action.

 

And it's not that hard to put over tag teams. Good teams like the Usos in a fast paced 10 minute tag match will get the crowd pumping if given the chance.

[shawn michaels]

I feel the same, but I think they actually like both of them, so I didn't want to... say the wrong thing.

 

 

We were using them (at least i was) as examples of pop cheasy easy stuff. How can you assume we like it?

 

 

The WWE roster is big enough to create a few tag teams. Add an extra half hour to Smackdown and between that and Raw you can fit in 2 proper tag matches per week without reducing the singles action.

 

And it's not that hard to put over tag teams. Good teams like the Usos in a fast paced 10 minute tag match will get the crowd pumping if given the chance.

 

Yeah..not gonna happen, lets just leave it at that.