The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Hive]

I don't hate Orton, I just feel he's lazy and his gimmick of having anger management issues is just flat out dumb. But that has a lot to do with his lousy acting. He has the ability to have fantastic matches when he's facing someone that forces him to elevate his game.

 

Lazy? Really? You can critisize his character and his mic skills if you will, but calling him lazy? I think Orton is one of the most dedicated and hard-working wrestlers in WWE today who always does his best to be professional and engaging in the ring. He doesn't know 1000 moves like Malenko, but I personally feel that he's a lot more versatile than Cena. But still, not knowing a lot of moves does not necessarily make you lazy imo.

[Jaysin]

Lazy? Really? You can critisize his character and his mic skills if you will, but calling him lazy? I think Orton is one of the most dedicated and hard-working wrestlers in WWE today who always does his best to be professional and engaging in the ring. He doesn't know 1000 moves like Malenko, but I personally feel that he's a lot more versatile than Cena. But still, not knowing a lot of moves does not necessarily make you lazy imo.

 

He's more versatile than Cena, but a good chunk of his matches before the Punk and Christian feuds certainly didn't show it.

 

His matches were outright lazy booking and just as bad as Cena's.

[Teh_Showtime]

I will agree on that. Remember when Miz cashed in on him after he was attacked by Nexus BEFORE the match he won with a single RKO. That was pretty ridic

[Tha Black Phenom]

Agreed but then again, New Nexus were complete scrubs. Didn't bother me in the slightest how they were booked against Orton.

 

I'd also like to add Dolph Ziggler to my earlier list of recent championship reigns that lasted less than a week.

 

So again, why not have Sheamus give it up to Cena in a rematch the next night if he wasn't supposed to be champion?

 

Because a retcon of this sort would've been way too obvious, and they're trying to make new stars which would've been completely counter-productive to just slap the belt back on the main man a night later.

 

Not that I believe this botched ending theory anyway. Somehow I think it was legit. If it weren't, it would've probably blown up all over the Internet in reports.

[Teh_Showtime]

Yeah by the time Punk took over it had already fallen apart, but in November that was pretty crazy

[Mr Rager]

On the topic of Wrestlemania and trying to predict/fantasy book what is going to happen, it's intriguing that WWE have hinted that Danielson will cash in his opportunity at the WHC and that Rock/Cena will be for the WWE Championship; you'd assume that only one of these things will happen, because the Royal Rumble winner needs somebody challenge as well. Unless they made the WHC match a triple threat.

 

I'd put my money on Danielson not having MITB by the time Wrestlemania comes round.

[bigtplaystew]

I was under the impression he was going to cash it in AFTER the world title match at wrestlemania. Am I mistaken?

 

BTW, I also think he will lose the briefcase before WM28

[Zeel1]

On the topic of Wrestlemania and trying to predict/fantasy book what is going to happen, it's intriguing that WWE have hinted that Danielson will cash in his opportunity at the WHC and that Rock/Cena will be for the WWE Championship; you'd assume that only one of these things will happen, because the Royal Rumble winner needs somebody challenge as well. Unless they made the WHC match a triple threat.

 

I'd put my money on Danielson not having MITB by the time Wrestlemania comes round.

 

Hmmm, the triple threat sounds like an interesting idea, actually. The RR winner could challenge for the World Heavyweight Title, only for Bryan to show up and remind everyone of his promise. They'd both have earned a shot at WM, so they both get one at WrestleMania. And booking-wise, I think it'd work out kinda similarly to WM 20, when Shawn Michaels was added to the Benoit/HHH match to make sure it was a big enough match to be a WrestleMania main event.

[Mr Rager]

I was under the impression he was going to cash it in AFTER the world title match at wrestlemania. Am I mistaken?

 

BTW, I also think he will lose the briefcase before WM28

 

I guess it could work that way; my interpretation of the situation was that he'd just set a date for the match to happen, like RVD did at One Night Stand a few years ago.

 

The briefcase holder cashing in on a weakened opponent is overplayed, in my opinion, and Danielson seems like the kind of character who would want to try to buck that trend by winning the title in a fair contest.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Again, everyone said the same thing about Miz and RVD. I'm at least willing to give it a few months before I guess if he's gonna lose it, see how much they build him up until then.

 

The top brass is in dire need of babyfaces, and I guess things have slightly redeemed themselves by now with the Sheamus face turn, and Punk possibly going down the face road, but there are still so many heel prospects among the upper echelon that need to be treated. A babyface just had to win the MITB.

[Mr Rager]

Hmmm, the triple threat sounds like an interesting idea, actually. The RR winner could challenge for the World Heavyweight Title, only for Bryan to show up and remind everyone of his promise. They'd both have earned a shot at WM, so they both get one at WrestleMania. And booking-wise, I think it'd work out kinda similarly to WM 20, when Shawn Michaels was added to the Benoit/HHH match to make sure it was a big enough match to be a WrestleMania main event.

 

Yes, that's the one that I was thinking of. I think it was a similar situation when Rey Mysterio won the WHC at Wrestlemania as well.

[Mr Rager]

Again, everyone said the same thing about Miz and RVD. I'm at least willing to give it a few months before I guess if he's gonna lose it, see how much they build him up until then.

 

The top brass is in dire need of babyfaces, and I guess things have slightly redeemed themselves by now with the Sheamus face turn, and Punk possibly going down the face road, but there are still so many heel prospects among the upper echelon that need to be treated. A babyface just had to win the MITB.

 

To clarify, I wasn't basing that prediction based on Danielson's position on the card; I was basing it on the fact that I think that WWE will try to make the Cena/Rock match as big of a spectacle as possible by having the WWE Championship on the line. Therefore the only way that Danielson would have his title match at Wrestlemania would be if it was a triple threat.

 

Otherwise, I think that he'll either lose the briefcase or, for whatever reason, cash it in beforehand.

[Gabbo]

I guess it could work that way; my interpretation of the situation was that he'd just set a date for the match to happen, like RVD did at One Night Stand a few years ago.

 

The briefcase holder cashing in on a weakened opponent is overplayed, in my opinion, and Danielson seems like the kind of character who would want to try to buck that trend by winning the title in a fair contest.

 

Didn't Danielson say he was going to cash it in to be in the main event at Wrestlemania. Would imply he was gonna do it before hand.

 

Main event doesn't mean main event anymore in the WWE, it just means big match.

[The Shape]

Hmmm, the triple threat sounds like an interesting idea, actually. The RR winner could challenge for the World Heavyweight Title, only for Bryan to show up and remind everyone of his promise. They'd both have earned a shot at WM, so they both get one at WrestleMania. And booking-wise, I think it'd work out kinda similarly to WM 20, when Shawn Michaels was added to the Benoit/HHH match to make sure it was a big enough match to be a WrestleMania main event.

 

Who could you throw in there as the Rumble winner with Punk and Danielson? They'd obviously have to be of a certain style.

 

Maybe a Samoa Joe monster push

[Teh_Showtime]

OMG if you havfnt checked out Gabriel/Kidd on NXT do it NOW! They had a PPV quality bout and imagine if they brought back the CW title with Sin Cara, Slater, and possibly Kofi and Bryan at times.

[bigtplaystew]

OMG if you havfnt checked out Gabriel/Kidd on NXT do it NOW! They had a PPV quality bout and imagine if they brought back the CW title with Sin Cara, Slater, and possibly Kofi and Bryan at times.

 

I've been saying for awhile WWE should rip off the X division. Especially with all the internet shows and the network launching. Im not as into them putting guys together based on size as I am about them putting younger lower to midcard guys in a ring who can WORK but might still be developing their skills as a character. Put them together in long form matches where storylines aren't AS important. Obviously, you cant ditch mic work all together but the idea would be the original idea behind the X-Division: a WRESTLING division.

 

 

 

I know it's not what WWE specializes in as they are much more heavy handed with entertainment then they are in-ring action, but a division like that is a great way to get younger guys to really show what they can do while they are still working on their physiques or mic skills or whatever the WWe wants to see to take them to that next level.

 

The guys you mentioned would all fit my imaginary vision of that.

[SaySo]

8/9 NXT Justin Gabriel -vs- Tyson Kidd

 

[Hive]

OMG if you havfnt checked out Gabriel/Kidd on NXT do it NOW! They had a PPV quality bout and imagine if they brought back the CW title with Sin Cara, Slater, and possibly Kofi and Bryan at times.

 

The match was pretty good, but I wasn't blown away. Especially Tyson Kidd kinda botching the finish by nearly getting up before realizing he was to stay down dragged it down for me. But some really good moves by both men every now and then, and loved Regal on commentary.

[Teh_Showtime]

I think he did that cause he looked too far away, but Gabriel hit in anyways. They actually made the crowd care as evidenced by the false 450 spots that made it better when he finally hit it.

[Bigpapa42]

Kinda random, but I've managed to get my grubby hands on all the WWE programming from 1998. Start to finish, all of the pay per views, Raw is War episodes, and Sunday Night Heat (with one or two exceptions). I started watching through them in order. Not quite to WM.

 

Its definitely interesting. I was watching during this period, on a mostly week to week basis, but its odd what you forget and what you remember.

 

I've found myself getting annoyed of late at people who like to paint the Attitude Era as some kind of golden period in pro wrestilng. It was most definitely a good period to be a fan, and there were some things that were much better then. But I think a lot of fans (myself included) have a tendency to remember the good and play down the bad when looking back. So its interesting to watch episodes of Raw is War on a week to week basis, to see what the undercard and throwaway angles were like. I find myself making the inevitable comparison to today... and today doesn't look so bad at all. The current product doesn't look great - and its definitely lacking in certain areas... Yet the actual in-ring wrestling is no worse today, match to match. That's just looking at early 1998, not the entire Attitude Era. But I do find its making me appreciate certain aspects of the current product a bit more.

[Jaysin]

Kinda random, but I've managed to get my grubby hands on all the WWE programming from 1998. Start to finish, all of the pay per views, Raw is War episodes, and Sunday Night Heat (with one or two exceptions). I started watching through them in order. Not quite to WM.

 

Its definitely interesting. I was watching during this period, on a mostly week to week basis, but its odd what you forget and what you remember.

 

I've found myself getting annoyed of late at people who like to paint the Attitude Era as some kind of golden period in pro wrestilng. It was most definitely a good period to be a fan, and there were some things that were much better then. But I think a lot of fans (myself included) have a tendency to remember the good and play down the bad when looking back. So its interesting to watch episodes of Raw is War on a week to week basis, to see what the undercard and throwaway angles were like. I find myself making the inevitable comparison to today... and today doesn't look so bad at all. The current product doesn't look great - and its definitely lacking in certain areas... Yet the actual in-ring wrestling is no worse today, match to match. That's just looking at early 1998, not the entire Attitude Era. But I do find its making me appreciate certain aspects of the current product a bit more.

 

I'm doing the same thing with Nitro. I started at the beginning and I'm in April of 1996 with the build up to the Lethal Lottery at Slamboree.

[Teh_Showtime]

I would love to stumble across the 1998 wrestling year somehow. Been watching the Jericho/Malenko feud recently just as a start.

[20LEgend]

I just watched the Best Of Raw 10 on VHS last night, that is 1998 Jan and Feb. What the hell was Goldust doing at that point. Marlyn Manson-dust and Hunter-Dust

 

Ken Shamrock was immense.

[Jaysin]

Anything Goldust does is golden.

 

Hahaha...totally didn't mean to do that

[djthefunkchris]

Kinda random, but I've managed to get my grubby hands on all the WWE programming from 1998. Start to finish, all of the pay per views, Raw is War episodes, and Sunday Night Heat (with one or two exceptions). I started watching through them in order. Not quite to WM.

 

Its definitely interesting. I was watching during this period, on a mostly week to week basis, but its odd what you forget and what you remember.

 

I've found myself getting annoyed of late at people who like to paint the Attitude Era as some kind of golden period in pro wrestilng. It was most definitely a good period to be a fan, and there were some things that were much better then. But I think a lot of fans (myself included) have a tendency to remember the good and play down the bad when looking back. So its interesting to watch episodes of Raw is War on a week to week basis, to see what the undercard and throwaway angles were like. I find myself making the inevitable comparison to today... and today doesn't look so bad at all. The current product doesn't look great - and its definitely lacking in certain areas... Yet the actual in-ring wrestling is no worse today, match to match. That's just looking at early 1998, not the entire Attitude Era. But I do find its making me appreciate certain aspects of the current product a bit more.

 

I've said something similar before, but I honestly think it's the time period when people were first grabbed by wrestling... NOT necessarily when you first watched, but when wrestling first grabbed your attention in a way that you didn't want to miss next weeks episodes. That time period to me would have been in the 80's (Rock and Wrestling), the time period for most on here is the Attitude era, but there are other's like myself as well. There are those that enjoyed both era's.

 

The thing is, "Little Jimmy" that loves John Cena isn't that far away from the fans that watched Hogan back in the day, and it's the same excitement for them now as it was for me back then, and other's during the Attitude era.

 

The things that always bother me when people compare, is they always compare the "Best Of" these era's (much like you, I have found myself doing the same thing) to compare with the "Norm" or even the "Worst" of the current era. It's those one time instances over a period of time that makes the whole era seem so gold and shiny, not the week by week stuff. IF you was to go back (to include people like me that were hooked during the 80's), and watch episode by episode, week by week, in order, you will find that there was just as much bad as there is now, and the fact most didn't look like it the way they do now.

 

Another thing that people do alot of (and I'm not innocent either), is compare what they see, and try to believe it looks a certain way to someone that isn't as smart as myself (Smark... whatever you want to think of yourself as). In other words, I don't think it's fair to say "Because such and such happened, fans are going to think "this" way, although I know better because I'm smarter, it's going to look a certain way to their "normal" fans." In reality, it looks the same way to them as it does to me, and they get alot more then people think they get.

 

I have friends that have never looked at wrestling information, never even visited wrestling sights (or tv show sights for that matter, period), that see right through everything I see through, the only difference being that they don't take it no where near as seriously as I did.

 

A good example is something Arrows said, about being beat up for 80% of the match, then coming back and winning makes the other guy look bad. Some other's said they agreed and everyone should read it carefully... as if we should all somehow agree that it's the truth. IMO, the reality of it is that most people "get it", and know that the match was "meant" to make it look like the guy who won, did it by the skin of their teeth. "IF only he didn't make that mistake, he would have won it" bassically. You know how they meant it to look, and more times then not, that's exactly what these "unsmart" fans see it as. Just because they don't say "Heel" or "Face" or use terms like ringwork, doesn't mean they don't "Get it".

 

In my opinion, and I'm not trying to say this in a bad way, as I said I'm guilty alot of times of doing the same thing (although I do try and catch myself), is that alot of these so called "Smarks" not only come from the direction of thinking they know more then the average bear, but alot of times come off as if the "common" fan is going to be just plain ignorant, and not see the obvious. I really hope I said this right, and no one is offended at all by it, because I'm not meaning to offend anyone... I see posts or poster's that think alot like Arrows does (for an example), but in no way do I think anyone is actually trying to pretend to be more intelligent on purpose, when saying things similarly. It's like a natural reaction, kind of like when someone asks you a question that you know alot about, and might tend to over analyze or give them 90% more substance about the topic then they ever wanted to here, lol.