The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Tha Black Phenom]

I usually agree with you. I just hated that ending to RAW though. It truly bored me to death. Everyone walked out on him and it took 20 minutes for that segment.

 

I can't really bash the whole storyline because it has had good moments but where it is right now I hate! The last few weeks of this have bored me.

 

We can agree to disagree on this but I didn't like it last night.

 

I'll agree with you on that, despite seeing the point of that segment it still left me dry.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Punk's twitter:

 

CM Punk responded to fans via his twitter page regarding not being at ringside for the vote of no confidence against COO Triple H. He issued the following statement:

 

"I think a lot of people are missing the point. Fans and coworkers alike. Walking out is a ***** move. There's a huge difference in what I did. I want change, and I can't change **** from my couch. I'm in the fox hole. I'm getting it done. I stayed to fight and I'm fighting for change. You can protest, violently or peacefully without actually showing up. Walking out isn't a solution at least not one that I've ever seen work. Hold 'em up. Make them change. Don't just walk out, or lay down. Fight. This goes for fans as well. Bored? Don't like @johncena ? Want more @ZackRyder ? Show up and be heard. Don't be a ***** and just tweet about it.

 

I want change, and I'll stand and fight for it even if I'm alone. Popular or unpopular, I could care less. Take your voting and shove it. Actions speaks louder than words. Except mine. My words are pretty awesome. No think about all that, and hopefully you'll get it. #fight

 

Too many tweets from me. Misspellings abound. You CAN'T protest without showing up. I am not Gandhi. I will kick your face. Don't like HHH as COO? Punch him in the face. I did. It's wrestling, not the NBA. #fight Next high kick to Johnny "Funkhauser" Ace won't be an accident."

[jjohns44]

Eh, I guess I'm the devil's advocate here, but I like the big storyline here, even with the gaping plothole of Smackdown but we'll just have to see what happens on Smackdown this week to get answers about Raw.

[soxfan93]

The whole point in the walkout was over how Triple H was running Raw. Teddy Long still runs Smackdown, so there's no "gaping plot hole." Well, at least not regarding Smackdown.

 

It's fairly obvious that this is going to lead to Triple H appointing somebody to take over Raw. I'm hoping for Mick Foley, but expect something stupid like Jerry Lawler.

[OldStingberg]

You talk about them getting complacent with putting Cena/Orton in main-events, but you go and think of the same mindset.

 

I literally have no idea how you came to this conclusion. I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that they should only do Cena and/or Orton main events. I'm saying they can only do those, because they don't have any other active wrestlers over enough to carry a PPV main event. I'd love it if they were headlining PPVs with Punk/Ziggler, but that's not even close to feasible right now.

 

And when you have guys like *gasp!* Triple H putting himself on the scene to elevate other talent, things will take effect down the line.

 

...seriously? Triple H is notorious for not putting over talent. Former WWE creative members have been ranting/joking about it on Twitter a lot lately. And it's no surprise. Look what HHH has done to "elevate" Punk. Trips played the moral babyface to Punk's raging douche then pinned him in the main event at Night of Champions. Now Punk is a generic babyface with no direction, while Triple H is the star ending Raw soaking in the applause of an adoring crowd.

 

Punk's twitter:

 

Imagine that after everyone walks out on Triple H, Punk's music hits and he shows up and delivers that Twitter work nearly line-by-line. Suddenly he gets some positive spotlight, his character regains some of what made him wildly popular a couple months ago, and he gets a little rub from Triple H.

 

Instead Punk's character is relegated to Twitter while Triple H is on TV basking in the chants from the crowd. And you're seriously trying to say that isn't messed up?

[DaMegaFish]

 

It's fairly obvious that this is going to lead to Triple H appointing somebody to take over Raw. I'm hoping for Mick Foley, but expect something stupid like Jerry Lawler.

 

I like Ric Flairs take on Foley best. Don't get me wrong, occasionally I liked his stuntman work, but I do think he was vastly overrated and often times when he makes his cameos he bores me.

 

Also, I didn't see most of it last year, but wasn't Lawler going against Miz and Cole in what was a top storyline? I feel like Lawler would be the much stronger man to be appointed in charge than a returning Mick Foley who has done nothing really of note since his original departure.

[Erock]

...seriously? Triple H is notorious for not putting over talent. Former WWE creative members have been ranting/joking about it on Twitter a lot lately. And it's no surprise. Look what HHH has done to "elevate" Punk. Trips played the moral babyface to Punk's raging douche then pinned him in the main event at Night of Champions. Now Punk is a generic babyface with no direction, while Triple H is the star ending Raw soaking in the applause of an adoring crowd.

I always wondered who exactly HHH was holding down.

[OctoberRaven]

Raw thoughts: Drew McIntyre Yay, No Ryder on the mic Yay, Santino and Henry Yay, Miz and Truth in "jail" but posting YouTube from what looks to be a trailer park nay, Beth's "we're girls" line SUPER NAY, End of show meh.

[soxfan93]

I like Ric Flairs take on Foley best. Don't get me wrong, occasionally I liked his stuntman work, but I do think he was vastly overrated and often times when he makes his cameos he bores me.

 

Also, I didn't see most of it last year, but wasn't Lawler going against Miz and Cole in what was a top storyline? I feel like Lawler would be the much stronger man to be appointed in charge than a returning Mick Foley who has done nothing really of note since his original departure.

 

Really? Because, to me, Flair's take always came off as someone who was jealous that while he worked his ass off to get over, Foley found a niche and got over almost immediately.

 

The Lawler/Miz storyline was from December to February, with Lawler/Cole continuing through May. Honestly, in retrospect, it makes sense, since all of the top names on Raw needed to be in the Elimination Chamber to determine who would be challenging Miz.

 

Foley is far better on the mic, and by far more entertaining at this point. While everyone focuses on how horrendous Cole's play-by-play is, Lawler's color is just as bad. I certainly don't want that in charge of the show. Besides, storyline-wise, Foley has experience as the Commissioner.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't agree with quite a bit said, outside of RAW not exactly delivering as well as I would like. Far as HHH vs. Punk and Punk coming out on the other end, hey... I don't mind that at all. The reason I don't, is because I didn't know, and I have a feeling they didn't know what the outcome would exactly be with that (I'm talking about the promo's face to face). To me, it had a chance to roll a completely different way, if HHH wasn't as good, and Punk was a bit more better on the "Pipe Bomb". It didn't exactly make Punk look bad IMO either... It just showed who was more over. IF (small word BIG meaning), it had gone the other way, all these people that are smarting about it would be praising it to death instead. IF Punk had come out with the crowd reactions HHH had, and IF HHH had recieved the reactions (or worse) then Punk did, people would think it was the greatest stuff in years.

 

It didn't so it's a "huge" mistake because it showed that Punk wasn't as over as they thought or they hoped, or whatever the reason might be. The thing is, it only showed them. It didn't show the common, general fan, anything like that at all... It showed the general audience that CM Punk can go one on one with a Legend in The Game, and I would say improved him/helped make him even moreso then he already was. Yes, he was red hot. Yes he could have, should have, done something that just went over the top with it, but... I have a feeling that it would have created a "flash" in the past type of feel to it, then slowing the build up down a bit, and working him slowly.

 

He's NOT going to over throw Cena or any of the legendary member's anytime soon, no matter what they would have done with him. That's what all that showed. However, it also showed that he does indeed have the potential to eventually hit that level.

[OldStingberg]

I always wondered who exactly HHH was holding down.

 

According to one former WWE writer, HHH was supposed to put over RVD in 2002, but HHH changed those plans. Same thing happened with Randy Orton in 2004/5.

 

That's one of the reasons that this whole thing with Punk is so frustrating. If someone didn't know better, it'd make sense to say to just sit back and wait and Triple H will put Punk over like every reasonable person would think he'd do. But for those people that know Triple H's history with putting over young, not-totally-established talents, what's happened to Punk isn't surprising.

[OldStingberg]

Beth's "we're girls" line SUPER NAY

 

Oh my god, I totally forgot to mention that. I cannot believe that that line was written, approved, and spoken. That line coming from any of the ladies would have been pretty offensive, but they managed to make it even worse by having the strong, not-a-runway-model-but-still-beautiful Beth Phoenix say it. It was like they were actively and vindictively trying to alienate their female fans.

[OctoberRaven]

It also doesn't help that she says that while doing a dominatrix-like "make other Divas scream while putting them in a submission hold" gimmick with Nattie.

 

SO out of character.

[djthefunkchris]

Oh my god, I totally forgot to mention that. I cannot believe that that line was written, approved, and spoken. That line coming from any of the ladies would have been pretty offensive, but they managed to make it even worse by having the strong, not-a-runway-model-but-still-beautiful Beth Phoenix say it. It was like they were actively and vindictively trying to alienate their female fans.

 

I honestly believe alot less is actually written, word for word, as people think... at least now-a-days.

 

It's another reason i think the promo's from HHH and Punk were NOT actually written, word for word. More like a "tell your side, then let him tell his side" part. They are in what I would call "Going Old School" right now. I for one like it...

 

I thought that was a strange line myself, but I think HHH treated it as silly as it sounded. Her point wasn't exactly "We're Girls" though, it was "We could be hurt from these ongoings as well"... "It could happen" and HHH answer appropriately "Anyone else?"

 

Just saying you guys are really nitpicking something I think might be turning into a sort of "golden age" repeat. The difference is the "out of character" stuff that comes out of alot of their mouths lately. I think alot of that is just NOT written. All part of what Punk started, and people like Mark Henry are finally saying what they think they should say (in character) as opposed to what the writer's want them to say.

 

That's not to say they don't have a program to follow. I just think it's alot more flexible then it has been in... I don't know eight years now?

[OldStingberg]

I agree that a lot of what it said isn't explicitly written beforehand.

 

But there's absolutely no way Beth Phoenix or any of the divas themselves decided to say something as stupid as "we're girls, we might get hurt, tee hee". These ladies have been getting the short end of the stick for years. Do you honestly think any of them are going to demean themselves like that, completely going out of character to say that they can't take care of themselves because they're girls? That's insane.

[djthefunkchris]

I agree that a lot of what it said isn't explicitly written beforehand.

 

But there's absolutely no way Beth Phoenix or any of the divas themselves decided to say something as stupid as "we're girls, we might get hurt, tee hee". These ladies have been getting the short end of the stick for years. Do you honestly think any of them are going to demean themselves like that, completely going out of character to say that they can't take care of themselves because they're girls? That's insane.

 

I can honestly say that I don't know right now. If she issue's a statement saying she was told to say that, then I would agree with you.

 

However, I don't "honestly" know. I never thought she was a good speaker in the first place, and to be honest, I don't know if she's capable of thinking like your thinking, storyline aside.

 

I totally agree that it was silly, but not because of her "dominatrix make other girls scream" thing going on with Natalya... but it, in my opinion does go against the "I'm tired of this girly girly stuff, and it's time for women to start focusing on wrestling". However, I also know that alot of women that are bigger like Beth, do want to be acknowledged as being females... especially when there have been times when Beth herself has been compared to "looking manish".

 

So although it made no scense "character wise", it made sense to me in a different way. I believe I've heard Chyna (out of character) say similar things before. Her (Chyna, not Beth) character and ego demanded to be in the ring with men, but out of character she would say things to make absolutely sure everyone realised she was a woman, not a man.

 

With the idea that alot of things are being said "loosely" without word for word written promo's, I don't doubt that she could possibly have just not thought out the consequences of what she said, before she said it.... being a poor promo person in the first place.

 

Now, I could be totally wrong here, and I'm going to say that "just in case" I'm proven to be totally wrong or off in my opinion. The writer's could have wrote it word for word, and she might have even protested. What little she has done in promo work, I could be wrong about her ability to deliver a heartfelt promo if she went off the cuff. Everything, at least to me, points a different direction though. I'm a writer, or whatever they call them these days... I don't think those would be words I would have picked for the character of Beth Phoenix to say... Perhaps Kelly Kelly would be better for that if I thought is was necessary.

 

To sum it up: I believe she was just told to talk on behalf of the diva's, and given a bit of "free" realm to say whatever to HHH, and that was the best she could do.

[DaMegaFish]

While everyone focuses on how horrendous Cole's play-by-play

 

This is why we must agree to disagree on the whole subject. I've been on the record before saying I am a big fan of MC announcing. This is just a case where we can argue for days, but its obvious we just like different things.

[djthefunkchris]

On the Foley subject, I too agree with Ric Flair, but only to a point. I think in ring, he's totally over-rated. However, his willingness to bassically put his life on the line makes him great IMO, if not a bit suicidal.

 

The main area I think Foley is above most, is his ability to draw you into his thoughts, his motives, his personal agenda's. He "connects", where alot of people do not connect. He's miles above most people, including The Rock and John Cena, in his ability to do this. In that aspect I think he's actually under-rated. However, I feel the same about Tommy Dreamer, to a lesser extent. He can connect when he wants to, but it's not on the same level, yet it is on the same level as many other's we see as "greats".

 

In ring, it's just his willingness to bump. I have never gone "Wow! That was an awesome move!" or "Woah, that was something how he got out of that move!"... but I have gone "OMG, That was totally crazy!!"

[soxfan93]

This is why we must agree to disagree on the whole subject. I've been on the record before saying I am a big fan of MC announcing. This is just a case where we can argue for days, but its obvious we just like different things.

 

Actually, I also love Michael Cole's character. I'm just saying everyone else in the IWC. Not the few of us who like him.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I literally have no idea how you came to this conclusion. I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that they should only do Cena and/or Orton main events. I'm saying they can only do those, because they don't have any other active wrestlers over enough to carry a PPV main event. I'd love it if they were headlining PPVs with Punk/Ziggler, but that's not even close to feasible right now.

 

 

 

...seriously? Triple H is notorious for not putting over talent. Former WWE creative members have been ranting/joking about it on Twitter a lot lately. And it's no surprise. Look what HHH has done to "elevate" Punk. Trips played the moral babyface to Punk's raging douche then pinned him in the main event at Night of Champions. Now Punk is a generic babyface with no direction, while Triple H is the star ending Raw soaking in the applause of an adoring crowd.

 

 

 

Imagine that after everyone walks out on Triple H, Punk's music hits and he shows up and delivers that Twitter work nearly line-by-line. Suddenly he gets some positive spotlight, his character regains some of what made him wildly popular a couple months ago, and he gets a little rub from Triple H.

 

Instead Punk's character is relegated to Twitter while Triple H is on TV basking in the chants from the crowd. And you're seriously trying to say that isn't messed up?

 

I never said you said they should either, I said that's also the mindset you're made comfortable in like them. I don't hold the buyrates a whole lot as a factor not only because of their steady declines over the years, but also because other factors influence that to begin with. Sure regardless, it doesn't look all that promising on Punk but talking status-wise, the guy who beat Cena twice is now seen he can hold his own. Again, it all depends on WWE stepping out of their cocoon and whether you or I can perceive it.

 

Yeah, Triple H is notorious for keeping people down. Just as much as he's known for elevating others too, but of course that's often drowned out by the ever so rampant anti-Triple H brigade who throw their hats up every time he gravitates the spotlight around himself. Certain times, it's done unnecessarily. But other times, it's made for the talent beneath him to ride his coattails and come across better cause of it. Okay, what if Triple H never came into the picture? Along with Nash, whatever? Punk would've just won the title and then gotten cashed in by Alberto, have his rematch and then drown back into upper midcardership feuding with R-Truth or the Miz. Nobody realizes Trips himself kept his momentum up for a short time, even if the storyline wasn't all that spectacular. Oh, he lost on PPV.. boo hoo. It was the main-event, on an event all about title defenses, their match still went last... the thing with HHH about relishing the spotlight is that whoever steps in the ring with him also benefits from it, even if he ends up staring at the lights at the end.

 

And really? One Twitter accolade and suddenly his character is being "relegated"? This is the issue I'm talking about, everything that's done to Punk is soo exaggeratedly damaging when other factors aren't considered. You know why he didn't cut that promo on Raw? Maybe because he thought of that hours before or simply after the show before typing that up. Maybe because he would've made the WHOLE roster look like a joke otherwise. It's one thing using your pipebombs for entertainment, but to what effect.

 

I don't know, personally I don't see what the big deal is. Punk's infinitely more established than he's ever been and you guys STILL find ways to demonize HHH and find faults in all of this. "oh he's not in the title picture, he has no momentum, etc" the problem is, at the end of the day, there is other talent in the brand they're trying to candor to. It was guaranteed Punk wouldn't stay up top forever, and I'm sure even he accepts that. Maybe this 'rotation' business isn't optimal, but in a way they also need to do it. Because once Cena or Orton won't be able to respond for whatever reason, they'll have room to go around. Pushing one or two guys at a time to reach close to Cena/Orton's level will also keep others where they are, or used to be.

[OctoberRaven]

It wasn't just the "We're girls" bit, though that was by far the worst line in her part of the segment. She shouldn't have even been representing the Divas in the first place. She and Nattie essentially waged war on the rest of the division, why is she their spokesperson?

 

Same with Wade Barrett. Why wasn't Otunga speaking for the wrestlers? He was the one stirring this pot from the start.

[Moe Hunter]

I always wondered who exactly HHH was holding down.

 

RVD, Jericho, Booker T, London, Kendrick, the entire tag team division on at least two occasions...

 

Also things like ending Orton's first reign very quickly in a crappy match, and never directly losing to Jeff Hardy for the title - always had to put Edge in there to take the fall.

[soxfan93]

It wasn't just the "We're girls" bit, though that was by far the worst line in her part of the segment. She shouldn't have even been representing the Divas in the first place. She and Nattie essentially waged war on the rest of the division, why is she their spokesperson?

 

Same with Wade Barrett. Why wasn't Otunga speaking for the wrestlers? He was the one stirring this pot from the start.

 

I was wondering why Barrett was "elected" to speak on behalf of the superstars, myself. That just didn't make sense to me, since he hasn't done anything of note since being excommunicated from the Nexus.

 

As for why Beth was speaking for the divas, I assumed that was simply because she's the Divas Champion. You didn't see Kelly Kelly or Eve out there at all.

[OctoberRaven]

I think we can at least agree that the highlight of the segment was Regal in the background looking absolutely bored out of his mind.

[Adam_Starr36]

I think we can at least agree that the highlight of the segment was Regal in the background looking absolutely bored out of his mind.

 

I agree completely.

 

And did I see Rene Dupree at the far end where Wade Barrett was? Maybe it was a NXT superstar, as I don't even watch it or anything, but he looked like him, or maybe Ricky Ortiz..? .. I doubt it was him...Now I'm bummed.