OldStingberg Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 The main event Henry vs. Bryan match they did on SD! recently says different, as did his faux cash in. His fake cash-in happened in Pennsylvania, which is a haven for hardcore fans, especially fans of ROH. And his reaction in the cage match was certainly solid. I'd say that that's much more the result of a month of reasonable booking along with Bryan improving on the mic, though, and much less anything to do with Cole. Again, and this point still stands, if Cole was effectively putting over Bryan, he wouldn't have spent most of the year as one of the least over legitimate superstars. It wasn't until the WWE started booking Bryan as part of the title picture that the more casual fans started (very slowly) coming on board. A month or two of average booking did more to put over Bryan than Cole was able to do in a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 His fake cash-in happened in Pennsylvania, which is a haven for hardcore fans, especially fans of ROH. And his reaction in the cage match was certainly solid. I'd say that that's much more the result of a month of reasonable booking along with Bryan improving on the mic, though, and much less anything to do with Cole. Again, and this point still stands, if Cole was effectively putting over Bryan, he wouldn't have spent most of the year as one of the least over legitimate superstars. It wasn't until the WWE started booking Bryan as part of the title picture that the more casual fans started (very slowly) coming on board. A month or two of average booking did more to put over Bryan than Cole was able to do in a year. I'd say it's a part of both. Also you have to understand, Bryan wouldn't be getting shots if it wasn't for his MitB win. That was the start of WWE pulling the trigger on him. I'm not saying Bryan doesn't deserve it or wouldn't get there eventually any way. I'm saying the reason he won this title, so fast after debuting is Cole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angeldelayette Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 WrestleMania could very well have an internet fan's dream match. A title unification match between Daniel Bryan and CM Punk. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 WrestleMania could very well have an internet fan's dream match. A title unification match between Daniel Bryan and CM Punk. Thoughts? I want it, but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 WrestleMania could very well have an internet fan's dream match. A title unification match between Daniel Bryan and CM Punk. Thoughts? I really hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 WrestleMania could very well have an internet fan's dream match. A title unification match between Daniel Bryan and CM Punk. Thoughts? Not in this lifetime or the next. If this match ever happens, and I suspect they have a small window for it, it'll be on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 It doesn't even make sense to have that match. I'm banking on Bryan/Henry at WM and Orton vs Barret for the WHC. Punk vs Jericho for the WWE title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 It doesn't even make sense to have that match. They do occasionally have champion vs. champion matches on TV, but you usually get a finish where the 'inferior' brand's champion looks like a schmuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 e I mean at WM. I could see it on Raw though since Ace did book a Cena/Ryder match recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Century Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 IMO Jim Ross has always been the best at putting wrestlers and storylines over. He doesn't trash all of the faces or the heels, he puts them over by talking about what good qualities they have, and then if it makes sense in the context of a match or storyline he points out their weaknesses. Michael Cole pointing out Daniel Bryan's actual weaknesses does not put Daniel Bryan over, it buries him. It wouldn't be too bad if Cole pointed out weaknesses that he made up, but he points out real weaknesses. The time that bothered me the most was when Del Rio made Bryan tap out a few weeks ago on Raw, and Cole jumped all over the fact, saying that if Bryan is such a submission expert, then why did he tap out to a submission. That was just a burial, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldStingberg Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 IMO Jim Ross has always been the best at putting wrestlers and storylines over. He doesn't trash all of the faces or the heels, he puts them over by talking about what good qualities they have, and then if it makes sense in the context of a match or storyline he points out their weaknesses. Michael Cole pointing out Daniel Bryan's actual weaknesses does not put Daniel Bryan over, it buries him. It wouldn't be too bad if Cole pointed out weaknesses that he made up, but he points out real weaknesses. The time that bothered me the most was when Del Rio made Bryan tap out a few weeks ago on Raw, and Cole jumped all over the fact, saying that if Bryan is such a submission expert, then why did he tap out to a submission. That was just a burial, plain and simple. I remember a time a couple months ago on Smackdown when Cole was criticizing Bryan saying he's not even great at submissions, he only has two of them. Bryan happened to put on a submission at that moment, so Josh Matthews and Booker T jumped in and literally said something to the effect of, "See! That's three!" Not only was Cole cutting Bryan's legs out from under him, the other two managed to make the situation even worse. It's almost incredible how bad the WWE announcing situation is right now. I will say, though, that I thought Cole did a much better job on Raw this week. His stunned silence while Lawler taunted him was great, and I loved his "why are you doing this to me?!?" stuff. That's the way a heel commentator puts over a talent. He didn't shine light on his weaknesses or undercut his strengths. Cole just took his own miserable personality and made some harmless comments against Bryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I am so sad Grish left for ESPN right now. Him and Striker was my favorite duo after JR/King of this decade. I miss WWECW <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />. I was a faithful watcher and witnessed so many epic matches for a "C" brand show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I am so sad Grish left for ESPN right now. Him and Striker was my favorite duo after JR/King of this decade. I miss WWECW <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />. I was a faithful watcher and witnessed so many epic matches for a "C" brand show.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I really liked WWECW as well. I don't know why they cancelled it, because to be honest, was my favorite of the three... I will never forget RVD vs. Hardcore Holly for example. I remember the whole Punk going with the "New Breed" and still staying a face, and keeping the respect of the others.</p><p> </p><p> This was all good storytelling IMO, but it never was recieved well, as I recall. Everyone wanted THE ECW, and we all knew that wouldn't happen.</p><p> </p><p> To me, it had less talk, more action. All the things I like went on while watching it, and I even liked the Layla led dancers. Heck, to me it was THE show to watch, far as WWE was concerned.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMAN Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 <p>WWECW was not that bad by the end of their run. No, it wasn't the old ECW, but they eventually made a point that it wasn't supposed to be. The only time they struggled was in the beginning when they tried to be something they weren't (original ECW). But by the time they finally did establish their own identity, their show got terminated. I think it's one of WWE's missed opportunities at keeping a portion of their fanbase. Yeah, there's the PG rated shows of SD and Raw, but what about the rest of your audience (and your biggest audience) who enjoy the non-PG WWE? </p><p> </p><p> Instead they gave us NXT or Superstars. Decent shows, but they both could have been integrated into ECW.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 <p>I liked WWECW too. At first I was snobby about it. Then it became the Christian Show and I loved it :-)</p><p> </p><p> But I do wish there was a show to have actual decent storylines for guys at that level. ECW had that. You had crafty veterans mixing it up with young talent. It made for an interesting dynamic.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 <p>Just to reference. Former ECW champs who won a World title since the show was replaced in early 2010:</p><p> </p><p> Christian</p><p> Jack Swagger</p><p> CM Punk</p><p> Kane</p><p> </p><p> And then other world champs since 2010 from ECW who never won the belt:</p><p> Sheamus</p><p> Miz</p><p> </p><p> And then it provided us with a load of the midcarders:</p><p> JoMo</p><p> Bourne</p><p> Kingston</p><p> Ryder</p><p> And a ton who are not on the roster anymore</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjohns44 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 <p>"Nyyyyeah Daniel Bryan's gonna be the first person to cash in the briefcase and lose"</p><p> </p><p> sayers of Nay, must now eat those tasty salty words. </p><p> </p><p> I was also reminded of Guerrero/Benoit celebrating their titles at WM.</p><p> </p><p> If WWE is starting to take the direction of wrestling over entertainment, Bryan would be a top guy. Had some great matches despite losing, but IMO win or lose, it's what you do in the ring and he looked solid.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoNdOn Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just to reference. Former ECW champs who won a World title since the show was replaced in early 2010:<p> </p><p> Christian</p><p> Jack Swagger</p><p> CM Punk</p><p> Kane</p><p> </p><p> And then other world champs since 2010 from ECW who never won the belt:</p><p> Sheamus</p><p> Miz</p><p> </p><p> And then it provided us with a load of the midcarders:</p><p> JoMo</p><p> Bourne</p><p> Kingston</p><p> Ryder</p><p> And a ton who are not on the roster anymore</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You missed Mark Henry and Big Show off that top list.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 <p>*crawls from under a rock*</p><p> </p><p> Michael Cole is annoying to me, yes. I find his heel act to do more harm than good, but he can be entertaining. I found a "Best of NXT Season 3" series on youtube which highlight how crappy, yet incredibly entertaining, that mockery of a wrestling show was.</p><p> </p><p> The highlight of the entire season? The announcing. Sure, it's not good business to just bury the product, but after watching the videos and listening to Cole just not giving a **** and mocking the entire show, which Matthews, Striker, and CM Punk (his sarcastic announcer run was awesome) aknowledge as being pisspoor, had me laughing the whole way.</p><p> </p><p> For those who want to see the compilations, it's on this channel:</p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/xpantherx" rel="external nofollow"></a></p><p> http://www.youtube.com/user/xpantherx</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rone Rivendale Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 <p>I too was a big fan of WWECW. It was a great place for people who wouldn't otherwise see time on Raw or Smackdown to develop. Johnny Nitro became John Morrison. Zack Ryder got his first real taste of the big time with a great feud against Christian right before it went off the air. Christian himself established himself as a World Title contender in WWE by winning and holding the WWECW Title longer than anyone else. And of course big Zeke the last WWECW champion.</p><p> </p><p> The only bad thing WWECW gave us was WWECW Champion... Chavo? #areyouseriousbro</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rone Rivendale" data-cite="Rone Rivendale" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I too was a big fan of WWECW. It was a great place for people who wouldn't otherwise see time on Raw or Smackdown to develop. Johnny Nitro became John Morrison. Zack Ryder got his first real taste of the big time with a great feud against Christian right before it went off the air. Christian himself established himself as a World Title contender in WWE by winning and holding the WWECW Title longer than anyone else. And of course big Zeke the last WWECW champion.<p> </p><p> The only bad thing WWECW gave us was WWECW Champion... Chavo? #areyouseriousbro</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hey, Chavo's decent and he's the current tag champ in TNindiA with Harry Smith.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Century Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rone Rivendale" data-cite="Rone Rivendale" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The only bad thing WWECW gave us was WWECW Champion... Chavo? #areyouseriousbro</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Chavo is actually one of the best cruiserweights of all time, but something always seemed/seems to get in the way of him filling his full potential.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Wrestling Century" data-cite="Wrestling Century" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Chavo is actually one of the best cruiserweights of all time, but something always seemed/seems to get in the way of him filling his full potential.</div></blockquote><p> "One of the best cruiserweights of all time?" Are you serious? He's not even close. He's a decent worker, but I can think of at least three luchadors and three cruiserweights better than he is. </p><p> </p><p> He's not that good in the air, he's not that good on the mat, he's not that good in brawling, he's only decent in terms of ringwork. He was never that popular either. Anything he can do, everyone else did better, or had more of. He didn't have much more to give in terms of potential.</p><p> </p><p> Chavo was exactly where he should have been-a midcarder at best, an opener/enhancement talent at worst. And I like Chavo, but there was never much to him, even in his WCW days. Guys like Billy Kidman and Rey Mysterio always had more potential, guys like Dean Malenko put on great matches, and guys like Chris Jericho were meant to be future stars. He wasn't even close to any of these guys. He was above David Flair in terms of ringwork, but he never had the "spark" or "look" or "skill" to match others. Heck, I would say even guys today way outclass him in terms of ringwork. And I usually don't say that.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashasheen Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>snip</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'd personally disagree with that assessment, as well as the fact that you even compared him to David Flair in any way shape or form. Chavo was definitly in the top ten of WCW's cruiserweight division and one of their better workers in the WWE. He had a great mix of American high-flying and luchadore abilities that made him a great worker with both American workers and luchadores. Plus he had decent mic skills and was a far superior heel than a face. The guy could have done so much more in the cruiserweight division as a heel than anything else, but the WWE destroyed that division and kept putting him against guys above his weight class (Kane, Batisa when part of la Familia, etc...) in feuds that didn't help fans perceptions.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rone Rivendale" data-cite="Rone Rivendale" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The only bad thing WWECW gave us was WWECW Champion... Chavo? #areyouseriousbro</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Ok, you're a Disco Inferno fan but you don't see Chavo's talent? The guy was/is a good in ring worker and can make almost anyone look good. His feud with Punk in WWECW made for great in ring and promo work. </p><p> </p><p> He was never on Eddie's level, but come on, he's awesome. Go back and watch his matches with Punk in WWECW or his runs as Cruiserweight champ in WWE or WCW. </p><p> </p><p> I'd have him on my roster any day.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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